[Carol M]

Melanie,
That is amazing!! So glad you’ve had success with a holistic approach. Just told Tamara that there is a group on Facebook called Afghan Hounds & Others with Chylothorax at https://www.facebook.com/groups/125192481255653/

I’m sure they would love to hear about your success! Much continued luck to you and Cooper!

Carol

[Carol M]

Hi Tamara,

I lost my girl in April. She did have 5 years with chylothorax so I’m grateful for the extra time but it was and is devastating. Her surgery didn’t work and she did well with a port. Also rutin 1000mg a day and low fat diet.

If you’re on Facebook, there is a group called Afghan Hounds & Others with Chylothorax at https://www.facebook.com/groups/125192481255653/ Lots of others with the same thing and there may be some help for you there. It seems more prevalent in Afghan Hounds but there are other dogs too. I know one person posted about using a holistic approach and it’s working.

I think I would be raising hell with the vet; not sure how they could nick her lung, and $2000 seems more than a little high!

I wish you much luck with this!
Carol

[Carol M]

FWIW I give my dog 1000mg of Rutin 3 times a day. She weighs about 30 lbs. She’s also on a low fat diet.

Monday marks 4 years since her (failed) surgery. If it is chylothorax you may want to look into a pleural port instead of surgery. I’m not a vet but the surgery didn’t work, she had complications, it cost a fortune. She’s been doing pretty well overall with the port — she’s still here.

There is now a group on Facebook “Afghan Hounds & Others with Chylothorax” — there may be some advice there on the rutin. Link is http://www.facebook.com/groups/125192481255653/

I wish you the best of luck! Hopefully not chylothorax but lymphoma isn’t a great alternative. Carol

[Carol M]

I’m sorry to hear you’re going through this too, Kelly. This is something I wouldn’t wish on anyone.

My dog is still doing well & I’m so thankful for that. Her lung lobe torsion occurred after she had the surgery (thoracic duct ligation). They said some fluid build up is normal after surgery but the torsion wasn’t the cause of the chylothorax. She had to have a 2nd surgery to fix the torsion. We tried the low fat diet & Rutin for several weeks before surgery & it wasn’t working; chyle was still building up & she had to be tapped repeatedly. The surgery didn’t work & she had a pleural port put in; we drain the fluid at home.

She is on Royal Canin low fat gastro and I mix the canned & dry food together. She also takes 1000mg of Rutin 3 times a day. Did they suggest Rutin? That’s about the only thing that’s been suggested for chylothorax. That and a low fat diet.

If I had it to do over again I would not have had the surgery. It cost a fortune & didn’t work. It may work for some dogs. I didn’t know about the pleural port and hers was the first one the vet did, but I would try that before doing major surgery if at all possible. The chest taps cause scarring and pocketing in the chest, which can make getting fluid out harder or even impossible. She has pocketing on one side but fluid can still come out.

Most vets have never dealt with this at all and haven’t heard of the pleural port. It’s a much less invasive procedure; the port is under the skin with a tube that goes thru the chest cavity. You use a special needle and after cleaning the area, insert the needle into the center of the port (think it’s silicone) and pull out fluid til it stops. We do it twice a week and get about 800ml – 1000ml out each time. She’s about 30 lbs. so that’s a lot but it’s been that way for 3 years.

I don’t know anything about other foods; she’s been on the Royal Canin since she was diagnosed. The Hills Prescription food is available too but about the same price. I don’t think I’d even consider anything that your dog is allergic to though.

Her protein levels are a little low but not terribly; and she’s at the same weight she was before all this. She eats well & is active & happy. I was worried about the protein loss as it’s said to lead to wasting but that hasn’t happened.

I would ask your vet about the port – info at norfolkvetproducts.com. Maybe even print the info out & bring it with you. And I’d ask about the success rate they’ve had with the surgery; what they think caused the torsion (was it first or was the chylothorax first and caused the torsion) and if your dog isn’t already on Rutin, ask about that too.

And — it may yet resolve on its own — it sounds like it hasn’t been that long. They tried my dog for several weeks on Rutin & low fat diet to see if it would go away before talking about surgery. Don’t let them rush you into a decision – it’s not good but it’s not necessarily an emergency either.

I wish you lots of good luck and please keep us posted! Carol

[Carol M]

Oh, Lisa, I am so sorry. That is heartbreaking and I wish I had words that would help. You and your family are in my prayers. And please know that Carrick knew he was loved and that you did all you could for him.

[Carol M]

Hi Lisa,

Thank you for your kind words! I hope Carrick does well. I had to order more needles from Norfolk the other day — Pam, the sales rep is wonderful — she suggested you contact Animal Medical Center in NY. She said it’s a non-profit but she didn’t know if they would charge less or might have some ideas. The $17,000 is ridiculous, Manhattan, his size or not! It was about $5k here in NC…it didn’t work & in fact yesterday was the 3 year anniversary of the initial surgery. The odds were 70-80% success rate.

I drain my dog twice a week & get about a liter of fluid each time, so about a gallon over a 2 week span. I think it was about a liter every 2 weeks initially so it’s increased quite a bit. Her left side is pocketed from repeated chest taps but the vet said fluid was still coming out so that’s a good thing. Sounds like Carrick has about double the fluid but he’d be much larger – she’s about 30 lbs.

I would not have had the surgery if I’d had any idea how bad things would get but I’m very grateful she’s still here!

I think the port is the way to go but I’m not a vet. It doesn’t cause scarring/pocketing like the taps do. Took a while to get used to doing it (I am more than a bit squeamish) but she’s very good about it. She’ll even come over to be shaved. knowing what’s coming. I’m sure she feels better.

One thing that I’ve read about chylothorax is a “gradual wasting” because of the loss of fats and proteins being removed with the chyle. I haven’t noticed any weight loss, her appetite is good, although her protein levels are a little low but not seriously low. I did talk to a nutritionist and she recommended a product called Vivonex TEN. It’s a liquid diet for people who can’t absorb nutrients through digestion. I tried mixing it with chicken broth, my dog won’t take it. But, it may be worth asking about, or since you’re using a holistic vet, there may be other nutritional alternatives.

Good luck! I hope that if you have the port put in that all goes well! Keep us all posted.
Carol

[Carol M]

PS You usually have to buy the medical supplies in boxes or cases; so the heparin syringe comes in boxes of 30 for about $23-30 a box; injection plugs 100/box; needles 100/box, etc.

[Carol M]

Lyndzy, I’m sorry you’re going through all this! I think you need a new vet — how could the chylothorax NOT be related to the lung torsion? Or vice versa?

My dog was diagnosed almost 3 years ago; the surgery didn’t work and led to a lung torsion which caused a 2nd surgery. The pleural port was put in a few months later. It did have to be replaced not long after and then had to be replaced about a year ago- not sure what happened, it may have become clogged. (has been a financial and emotional nightmare)

When the port was replaced 11/14, they found that one side of her chest was “pocketed” from scarring from chest taps. The port’s still working and I get almost 2 liters out a week (she’s 30 lbs). She’s been on Rutin 1000mg 3 times a day and on Royal Canin Low Fat Gastrointestinal food the whole time. Did they recommend a low fat diet? it’s supposed to help.

The port surgery was around $1800 total and she went home the same day. The port is under the skin with the tube going into the chest cavity. Probably depends on the dog and how much fluid; we do it twice a week. She’s doing amazingly well considering it’s been almost 3 years. I thought it was a death sentence & the prognosis was “guarded.” She’s eating well, playful and very happy in spite of all she’s been through.

Ongoing costs aren’t bad compared to surgery (assuming you don’t have to get the port replaced). You have to use a Huber non-coring needle to access the port. You attach an injection plug to that and then use a large (60cc or 2oz) syringe to drain the fluid. Takes some effort and you keep repeating til it stops. I only shave the area once a week; might have to do it more often with your dog. Takes 2 people; one to do the procedure and another to hold/calm the dog. Very hard to do it alone and keep things sterile and her calm.

I switched from a standard Huber needle to a right angle infusion set – it has a 6″ tube so makes it easier to work with. You have to kind of push on the regular needle to keep it in while you’re pulling on the syringe at the same time. The right angle stays in place.

Costs: $48 for 12 Huber infusion sets; 60ml syringe about $1 each; 1″ 18 gauge needle about $6 for a box of 100; injection ports $55 for a box of 100; heparin flush syringes about $1 or less each. I’m thinking it comes out to about $10 each time, maybe less.

Can’t find the medical supplies in one place so I have to order from several places. Some require a prescription depending on the item. I can give you the names if you do go with the port.

The place that makes the pleural port also sells the needles – http://norfolkvetproducts.com/pleuralport.html. You might call them and see if they know of any vets in the Memphis area since they supply the port. Pamela is in sales and she’s been great to work with.

I think the port is a fairly new thing. Might be used more in cats. There is a Facebook page called “Chylothorax Cats” that has some information on it but nothing for dogs.

Good luck to you and your dog! Carol

[Carol M]

Melanie, somehow I deleted my reply. Was going to say that my dog was diagnosed over 2 years ago. The surgery didn’t work and the vet put a pleural port in. The cost is a lot less than the surgery ($2000 vs $5000 at specialist in NC), is less invasive, less recovery time and eliminates the need for chest taps which lead to pocketing in the chest cavity We have been draining fluid from her twice a week since July 2013 and she’s doing well (she does have pocketing on her left side from chest taps but fluid is still coming out).

She has been on Rutin 1000mg/3 times a day – she’s about 30 lbs; I think that’s a fairly standard dose. And Royal Canin low fat gastrointestinal prescription food. Hills has a similar prescription food. She wouldn’t eat after the initial surgery so vet suggested boiled chicken and rice, boiled in no-fat or low-fat chicken broth.

The port is under the skin and you have to shave the fur & clean the skin and use a special needle. I’m more than a little squeamish but have gotten used to it. If I could do it again, I would not have had the surgery. It didn’t work, caused more problems and a 2nd surgery, and cost a fortune. This is a rare condition and most vets have no experience with it. The link for the port is: http://www.norfolkvetproducts.com/pleuralport.html.

It’s possible your dog may do well with Rutin and low fat food too but wanted to tell you about the port if it comes to that. I thought it was a death sentence too but she’s done well for over 2 years and I’m thankful for that. Good luck!

[Carol M]

I’m so sorry to hear that. I would keep calling the vet hospital – be a nuisance if you have to; maybe they have some ideas. Good luck.

[Carol M]

Hi Nancy,

Yes, it is unbelievable how much fluid she gets – 2 liters in a week, that’s about a half a gallon! That’s why we do “the procedure” twice a week; don’t think she’d be able to breathe otherwise.

My dog is about 30# – the vet recommended 1000mg (2 pills) 3x a day. I use Nature’s Plus brand, there’s a health food store nearby that carries it (couldn’t find it at some of the larger stores like Whole Foods). I tried going up to 1500mg 3x a day for a few months but didn’t notice any difference in the amount of fluid so I went back to 1000mg. Don’t know that it actually does anything but I’m not going to stop in case it does.

Haven’t tried Metamucil; that was the nutritionist’s suggestion as she read that a high fiber diet helps with chylothorax. Don’t know what the dosage would be though, need to ask vet.

There are no restrictions on activity because of the port itself; it’s all contained and can only be accessed by needle (looks like a lump on her side). Vet said to just treat her like a normal dog. She is less active when she’s filling up with fluid so she restricts herself. After we drain her, she goes (on her own) to her crate for about 20 minutes or so to rest. I don’t let her run around right after just as a precaution.

The specialist vet doesn’t carry Royal Canin but my regular vet does. The PetSmart here carries it & probably Petco does too; your vet would have to write a prescription for them to fill it. I feed the dry and mix in some canned with it. I just ordered a case of canned from Petflow (www.petflow.com) – price is about the same ($61 for 24 cans) but they deliver it (free shipping for orders over $49) and you can set it up to auto ship (and get 20% off the first order for auto ship). You’d probably want to get a few cans and/or dry to see if your dog likes it before ordering that much though…maybe another local vet carries it.

She eats quite a bit actually – close to a cup of dry with maybe 1/4 – 1/3 can mixed in twice a day. The other dogs get 1/2 cup in the morning & 1 cup at night of their dry food. Her appetite is good and she’s not gained or lost weight (other than after surgery).

I kind of jokingly asked the nutritionist if giving her boneless chicken breast would help with the protein loss. She said it couldn’t hurt, just be sure to boil it and skim off any fat – I trimmed all the fat & other yuck off and then boiled it in no-fat chicken broth and have been adding some to her food but just in the last week or so. When she had the surgery she wasn’t eating so I boiled chicken & rice for her and hand fed her and that worked. Then mixed it with the dog food until it was all dog food.

I tried giving her frozen green beans as a treat and that worked for a while…then she caught on that the others were getting real treats. So, I’m giving all of them Pupcorn treats (found at Fred’s or PetSmart has their own brand) as it’s 3% or lower fat and supposedly healthy. She’s not a chewer and not crazy about toys. Wonder if maybe a Kong or similar filled with something low fat would work for your dog?

Hope that helps – do check with the vet though before you do anything. Carol

[Carol M]

You’re very welcome, Nancy! And thank you for your kind words! I wouldn’t wish this on anyone but it is good to know we’re not alone in this.

The nutritionist said that Royal Canin is “the best food available” – it’s prescription only too. I’m pretty sure there are no by-products in Royal Canin so that’s a big plus. It looks more like regular dog food too; I don’t like the look or consistency of the I/D – I put her rutin pills in the food & make a meatball and the I/D is too stiff & crumbly to do it (and frankly, it just grosses me out; I know it’s rice mixed in but it looks nasty).

She had the chest surgery done at a specialist vet in NC; they see about 7 cases in a year but that’s filtered in from all over the area. They see more cases in cats & she said the outlook was much worse in cats. The surgeon had never put in a pleural port before so it was a learning experience for her too. There was another option of a peritoneal-pleural pump – a pump under the ribs that is supposed to move the fluid from the chest to the abdomen, where hopefully it would be absorbed into the body. But she felt it was uncomfortable for the dog (you’d have to press on the ribs several times a day) and there’d be no way to tell if it was working or not without xrays or ultrasound. It’s possible that the fluid would just accumulate in the abdomen.

The port she used is made by Norfolk Vet Products and they are wonderful to deal with – when you call, you actually speak with a human, not a machine (a rare thing). The link is: http://www.norfolkvetproducts.com/pleuralport.html – has all the info on the surgery and how to use the port on the site. You have to use a special needle – a Huber non-coring needle so it doesn’t damage the silicone covering of the port – and you can order them through Norfolk. I was a nervous wreck at first (and I’m more than a little squeamish so if I can do it, anyone can) but we’ve got it down to a routine now and my dog is very tolerant – lots of times her tail keeps wagging the whole time. It probably only takes about 15 minutes or so to drain the fluid, usually 1000cc or so each time (twice a week – yikes!). She is only 30 lbs so it’s an enormous amount of fluid for her size, and it probably weighs at least a couple lbs each time, no wonder the breathing is so affected.

The protein loss isn’t too bad at this point; her levels are low but not critically so. The other thing they check for is loss of electrolytes and that’s been fine so far.

There is a page on Facebook called “Chylothorax Cats” but I haven’t seen anything like it for dogs. They have a webpage too & info on herbal & holistic treatments, but again, it’s for cats: http://chylothoraxcats.webs.com/

Good luck! And please update when you can! Carol

[Carol M]

Hi! Nancy and lovemycanines, just saw this, I hope your dogs are still doing ok. My 6-year-old dog was diagnosed with idiopathic chylothorax in April 2013. We tried the low fat diet and rutin for several weeks and they were removing about 1 liter of fluid every 2 weeks. After several weeks we opted for the surgery (thoracic duct ligation and pericardiectomy). Lots of complications followed, long story short, the chyle came back & the surgery didn’t work.

They put a pleural port in (the port goes under the skin on the side and the attached long tube goes between the ribs and floats in the chest cavity) so we could drain the fluid at home. A lot less painful & stressful on her than chest taps. We’ve been draining her twice a week and getting about 2 liters of chyle per week (huge increase from what it started at). She is on Royal Canin Gastointestinal Low Fat food (prescription) and still takes 1000mg of rutin 3 times a day. I tried going up to 1500mg of rutin 3 times a day for several months but noticed no difference in the amount of fluid.

If I had to make the decision today, I’d go with the pleural port. It’s a lot less invasive than the surgery and a lot less expensive. Didn’t know about it until after the fact but if you’re dealing with this, you might want to look into it and ask your vet (most have never dealt with chylothorax).

My dog looks & acts fine; you’d never know there was any problem – eats well, plays, happy, active, etc. But now with removing the chyle, her protein levels are low. Vet can’t really do anything and she suggested a nutritionist. The nutritionist has not dealt with chylothorax before but researched it and said that there is a human product called Vivonex t.e.n. that is an amino acid that bypasses digestion and “should” help raise protein levels. Haven’t tried it yet; it’s about $10 a day but if it works it should show results in 10 days. She also said that a high fiber diet might help & suggested metamucil. Have to talk to vet about all this.

Wish you good luck with this. It has been a nightmare all around and very frustrating because there’s so little info available, even for people with the condition.

[Author]

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