[BlackAndTan]

hi puppygirlsmom,

Orijen is considered, by most accounts, to be a very high quality dog food. My guy’s neurologist seconded this. We switched off it mainly because of his gas, and because I was happy to find a lower protein grain free option (his regular vet suggested lowering protein).

How about using a high quality dog food and then add fish oils/omegas? IF I am correct yorkies are also prone to some skin irritation, so the oils would be good for that too!

[BlackAndTan]

Hi everyone,

I sent a question through the website about a week ago and got the same error message.
Today I got a very involved reply. Quite appreciated.
Here it is if anyone’s interested (on the topic of protein cycling)

Cheers

——— message below —-
I am glad your boy is doing well on Canine Caviar!
Protein rotation is beneficial, there really is not a wrong way to do
it. It does not have to be done daily, it can be monthly or quarterly.
I personally feed a different kibble protein source each time a new bag
is needed and rotate thru the cans the same way.
When mixing cans with the kibble, keep in mind our cans are pure protein
and should be used as a supplement only. A dogs system can typically
utilize up to 35% of their intake as protein. Anymore than that can
lead to health issues like pancreatitis. If you are feeding more than a
few spoons of Canine Caviar canned food at a time, you will need to
reduce the amount of kibble you are feeding by the same amount, 1/2 cup
can would mean 1/2 cup less kibble. If you want him to reduce his
weight a bit, you can also supplement with our Synergy mix. It is a
dehydrated vegetable mix that will add more volume to his meal without
the added protein and calories.
Please feel free to contact me with any additional questions.
Thank you,
Julie

Julie Campbell
Canine Caviar Pet Foods, Inc
4131 Tigris Way
Riverside, Ca 92503
Phone 714-223-1800
Fax 714-223-1801
email julie@caninecaviar.com
http://www.caninecaviar.com

[BlackAndTan]

Aww, I am really liking Canine Caviar for my dog so I hope they clear this up and don’t screw themselves over. Just playing devil’s advocate: my understanding is they are a quite new, and very recently expanded, company.

[BlackAndTan]

Hi Sue,

So sorry you’re dealing with these issues. What a rough patch!

I think HoundDogMom has great links, above. I’m have less depth of reading in the area, but I’d just like to mention a few things I know to be true.

1) sugar, regardless of the amount, shouldn’t be in our dog(s)’ food. It has no place in their diet.
2) most vet-prescribed food is of surprisingly POOR quality. It makes no sense, but this is just the way it is. It often contains corn, syrups, wheat, rice, and various fillers, with meat/meals several ingredients down the list.
3) diabetes in some cases can be reversed, so read up as much as you can! I was terrified when my dog started having seizures last year, but I’ve done a lot of research and feel much more in control. The more you know!
4) If they are overweight, this is extremely dangerous for a dachshund because of their spines. Dachshunds should always stay just a few ounces underweight (lean!).

Sorry if I’m repeating things you already know.
Good luck! 🙂

[BlackAndTan]

Interesting. Thanks for the info!

[BlackAndTan]

It is the very rare dog owner who reads ingredients, much less nutritional breakdown. It is the even more rare dog owner who knows what any of it means, or is concerned.

I’m not surprised they feel no rush to change their bags. If pugmomsandy is correct, they are also under no obligation to do so. If anything, their labelling error could lose them customers, so they are doing this at THEIR own risk.

Going to news outlet seems a highly overblown reaction, and will unlikely be taken seriously. I would support that course of action if the food was toxic or the misprint was WILDLY misleading, but that is not the case here.

[BlackAndTan]

One last thing.
I really do think it is useful to think about things – as people are – in terms of PROTECTING our dogs from other people’s ignorance/ negligence/ bad attitudes, etc.

I know as a Rottie owner, I can really go on the offence when it’s suggested I should have to take different measures for my dog or deny him certain opportunities based on breed. Still, having seen the type of idiotic behaviors I’ve seen from other dog owners and non-dog-owning park users, I know think purely in terms of his protection, his safety, his longevity… and my home insurance!! 😀

You really cannot ever assume other people will be responsible. You will be so disappointed!

[BlackAndTan]

Lots of interesting comments.

First to Mom2Cavs regarding the Therapy Dog vests, you’re right: no one should put fraudulent tags/ clothes etc on their dogs… or their houses… or their cars. Etc. Totally agree. However, one can order a vest that simply says: “IN TRAINING” or “DO NOT APPROACH” etc. This sends the same message to silly people who do not respect boundaries, but isn’t claiming the dog or handler is something it isn’t.
Just one interesting thing to add: I know people who take advantage by having their dogs certified! I know one woman who is extremely, neurotically attached to her dog. They are codependent. So she had the dog certified so she could take it shopping and out to eat. She also walks this dog off leash everywhere, ironically, convinced nothing will ever happen. This all disturbs me quite a bit.

In terms of dog owners taking strict and full liability for their animal’s actions, this is only reasonable **IMO** if we assume 1) an owner knows all of their dog’s issues 2) there is no contributory negligence. IMO, dogs off leash on the street, antagonistic yappers, humpers…. owners of these dogs MUST accept liability if their dog is injured. I believe this should extend to people, too: trespassers, joggers in off leash dog parks, solicitors who show up when you have ‘no solicitor’ signs, kids running amuck at dog obedience meetings, etc. To say the owner must be responsible, period, completely removes accountability from dog owners who break rules: laws, bylaws, and basic decent common sense.
Returning to my point about a dog owner knowing their dog’s issues. Often, we don’t learn our dog has a problem until s/he’s done something problematic. There are many dogs that lunge. Not all of them will lunge and eventually bite. Some will. Should owners assume that if a dog shows the first sign on the aggression spectrum, s/he will inevitably go further to nip < snap < bite < bite hard < bite repeatedly , maul?? (I use the < sign just to indicate this is a big, wide spectrum).

Some people might say yes, owners should assume the worst. I don’t know that I definitely disagree on this, but what I do know is that if you live anywhere other than the countryside with an in-call vet, it is just about impossible to completely avoid potentially troublesome situations. And this is why we need EVERYONE to be accountable.

[BlackAndTan]

I’d be so upset.
I have a Rottweiler and have identified two types of stupid people: those who assume my dog is aggressive and melt into hysterics on the sight of him, and those who assume both my dog and I are second-class citizens and undeserving of respect, boundaries, polite apologies, etc. Luckily, since moving to the city we live in now, we’ve encountered none of these people. In our last city, though, they were rampant. Environment sure does play a role, huh?

While my dog is good with other canines, he’s a typical Rottie and has a medium-high prey/play drive, and a strong herding instinct. Put this together and you have a dog who doesn’t “like” joggers. You’d never believe the stories I could tell.

I like the response you came up with! That was some good thinking on the spot. Another option is to say your dog is a “working dog in training” – no need to specify anything 😉 This takes you off the rude owner’s playing field and removes her ability to think of you as a “bad dog owner,” since you position yourself as a trainer and your dog as a worker in training. Thus, all the misinformed notions about ‘friendliness,’ and ‘just playing’ go out the window, leaving her pretty much defenceless in her inability to properly manage her pet.

[BlackAndTan]

I just switched from Orijen to Canine Caviar and am very happy with their food. The Wilderness, Open Sky, Puppy, and Buffalo recipe are fish-free. All formulas are for all life stages (though the puppy formula is targeted, I would guess).

[BlackAndTan]

Hi!
CC suggests just doing a cold switch, so we did that. No problems at all.
I think you will be happy with the CC Venison. I was very nervous about switching my guy’s food: making a tiny wrong move and provoking a seizure is a big concern I have with his diet and environment.

Another really nice plus it is really cost effective. Like surprisingly so. Though bags run the same price as the other premium foods, they are more dense so less feeding is necessary. Yesterday I fed my 112lb dog 1.5 cups as it was sweltering out so decreased exercise, and he didn’t complain about being hungry once. And this is a dog on phenobarbital! (appetite stimulant)

[BlackAndTan]

Did you lose your dog to epilepsy? I’m so sorry 🙁
It’s a disease you’re never prepared for, especially if you live with a dog with no genetic predisposition. At first I was absolutely terrified and full of anxiety, but I have grown so much and become an even better companion to my dog through our experience with this illness, so there is a silver lining. We have also been lucky, of course, that his seizure activity has been manageable (cluster seizures but many months between episodes once we got his medication sorted out). Unfortunately, it seems like this disease has way too much to do with luck 🙁

[BlackAndTan]

You know what, you are absolutely right. I keep thinking to myself how before he had his first seizures, he’d been really nibbling on neighborhood grass. He’s such a scent-oriented boy that it’s hard to control where the nose goes sometimes, but you bring necessary attention to the risks. Thanks again

[BlackAndTan]

Hi Patty,
Thanks, that is really useful information!
As for the chemicals, you’re preaching to the choir 🙂 What’s tricky is that I kept a pretty natural house before the seizures, so there wasn’t much I could eliminate after. The only thing I can’t eliminate is laundry sheets, because my partner is in the military is extremely persnickety about his uniform. But I know there are natural alternatives, so I’ll keep at it.

Great food suggestions thank you again!!

[BlackAndTan]

Just wanted to clarify a few things (don’t see an edit button)

“And it isn’t just one suspicious bag; he’d shown these problems over the course of over ten bags of food.”
The gas has been present for this long or longer (a bag of food or so a month). The sluggishness was since March or so.

He’s probably been on Orijen more like 4 years. Reading now about their use of chickpea fibre, I’m wondering if anyone knows if this is a recent change? I’ve noticed changed packaging but wasn’t aware of ingredient changes.

[Author]

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