[J S]

Seriously please tell me WHY cat food is bad for dogs? The only thing I can find is higher protein and fat levels. Is that it?

If that’s the case why would I not feed my dogs high quality cat food that still has OK protein levels?

For example: ATM I feed my dogs Fromm. I did feed Orijen before the switch to Kentucky and a baseball sized clump of kibble was found in the bag errrrr. I love the history of Fromm and feel safe feeding my dogs the food. The problem….30 or lower protein levels compared to 38+ of Orijen and other top foods.

BUT Fromm’s 4-star cat food is about the same as Orijen in protein and fat levels.

I could feed my dogs Fromm’s cat food that looks a lot better in ingredients and protein/fat levels than Fromm’s dog food and still be cheaper than Orijen.

I looked at the analysis and everything else besides Protein/fat levels are pretty much the same when comparing Fromm dog vs cat food.

SO please tell me why my dogs can not eat Cat food on a regular basis?

Thanks All

[anonymous]

One word: Pancreatitis.

[J S]

Please describe…..Pancreatitis is mainly caused by fatty diets….If the cat food has no more fat than say dog foods such as Orijen why would the dog get Pancreatitis? There are very high quality cat foods with great ingredients, high protein and fat levels on the same level as the most expensive dog foods on the market at a cheaper price.

[Tyrionthebiscuit]

Pancreatitis is aggravated by high fat diets but usually has an underlying cause like hypothyroidism. Cat foods can be tiny in size compared to dog food. That would be a concern to me especially for a larger dog. The price of cat food is also quite steep.

Have you looked at Instinct?

[anonymous]

Consult a veterinarian that had examined your pet as per
/disclaimer-and-disclosure/

There are no veterinarians affiliated with DFA.

[Acroyali]

Why not feed a goat’s diet to a horse, or a horses’ diet to a nursing dairy cow, etc…?

[Tyrionthebiscuit]

Anon why are you posting that? At this point we can all tell when you’re trying to get a ride out of certain posters and it’s a shame that you are willing to ruin a good discussion for your own entertainment. Why are you still playing these games?

[J S]

Besides kibble size no one has Gabe a good reason why not to feed cat food over dog food.

[J S]

Fromm dog surf and turf:
INGREDIENTS
Salmon, Duck Meal, Potatoes, Pea Flour, Sweet Potatoes, Duck, Chicken Fat, Dried Tomato Pomace, Salmon Meal, Dried Whole Egg, Pea Protein, Chicken, Flaxseed, Cheese, Salmon Oil, Chicken Broth, Carrots, Broccoli, Cauliflower, Apples, Green Beans, Chicken Cartilage, Potassium Chloride, Cranberries, Blueberries, Salt, Chicory Root Extract, Alfalfa Sprouts, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Sodium Selenite, Folic Acid, Taurine, Parsley, Sorbic Acid (Preservative), Vitamins, Minerals, Probiotics.

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Crude Protein 30% MIN
Crude Fat 19% MIN
Crude Fiber 6.5% MAX
Moisture 10% MAX
Omega 3 Fatty Acids0.6% MIN
Omega 6 Fatty Acids2.8% MIN
CALORIC CONTENT 409 kcal/cup

Fromm cat surf and turf:
INGREDIENTS
Salmon, Duck Meal, Salmon Meal, Pea Protein, Chicken, Sweet Potatoes, Potatoes, Duck, Pea Flour, Dried Tomato Pomace, Chicken Fat, Dried Whole Egg, Salmon Oil, Flaxseed, Cheese, Pea Fiber, Carrots, Broccoli, Cauliflower, Apples, Green Beans, Chicken Cartilage, Taurine, DL-Methionine, Potassium Chloride, Cranberries, Blueberries, Salt, Chicory Root Extract, Alfalfa Sprouts, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Sodium Selenite, Folic Acid, Parsley, Sorbic Acid (Preservative), Vitamins, Minerals, Probiotics.

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Crude Protein 38% MIN
Crude Fat 19% MIN
Crude Fiber 6.0% MAX
Moisture 10% MAX
CALORIC CONTENT 452 kcal/cup

[haleycookie]

I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with feeding a dog cat food except the reasons already stated. Size of the food and especially the price. You said “dogs” with an s right? Well rememeber quality cat food rarely has bags bigger than 12 lbs. I see fromms biggest bag of cat is 15 lbs. for 50$. Thats a lot of mouths to feed for 50$. If you have dogs and cats you’ll be burning through that bag within a week. Maybe week and a half. The average 22-30 lbs bag of regular quality dog food costs 50$. If you have the money for it then go for it. But I would email them first about vitamin levels. Dogs and cats require different things so they might have different vitamin levels which is something I’d be worried about. Especially since vitamin deficiencies can be really dangerous and usually don’t show until it’s too late.

[crazy4cats]

Hi JS-
Price and higher fat percentage would be my biggest concern. However, there are a few companies that have kibble that they say can be fed to both. Wysong is one of them. I can’t remember the other at the moment.
Epigen™

Good luck to you!

[J S]

The Fromm dog food comes in a 26lb bag. Cat food in a 15lb bag. To buy 26lbs of cat food would cost about $83 vs $78 of the fog food. So only a $5 difference.

Do you know a high quality dog food that compares to the Fromm cat food listed above for only $83?

[J S]

Not named Orijen btw

[J S]

Oh and the vitamin levels are almost exactly the same.

[haleycookie]

How do you know they’re the same? Did you contact Fromm? Vitamin levels are not listed specifically on the nutrient panel.
You don’t seem interested in any of the reasons given or consulting with your vet or Fromm about it so do what you want. What we say clearly isn’t mattering to you

• This reply was modified 6 years, 2 months ago by haleycookie.

[J S]

If you go to Fromm’s website and click on the “Typical Analysis” tab it will show you all the Vitamin Levels.

As-Is Basis (%)

Dry Matter Basis (%)

Cat Moisture 7.58
Dog Moisture 6.28

Cat Dry Matter 92.42
Dog Dry Matter 93.72

Cat Protein 39.02
Dog Protein 32.10

Cat Fat 20.25
Dog Fat 19.12

Cat Fiber 4.14
Dog Fiber 3.49

Cat Ash 6.89
Dog Ash 6.48

Cat Phosphorus 1.15
Dog Phosphorus 0.98

Cat Potassium 0.82
Dog Potassium 0.81

Cat Magnesium 0.15
Dog Magnesium 0.15

Cat Calcium 1.31
Dog Calcium 1.31

Cat Sodium 0.43
Dog Sodium 0.37

Cat Iron 134
Dog iron 219

Cat Manganese 56
Dog Manganese 72

Cat Copper 16
Dog Copper 21

Cat Zinc 235
Dog Zinc 198

I don’t see anything that’s to far apart do you?

[J S]

Hmm does seem iron is by far the biggest difference? Do you know if that’s a concern? I did check Orijen and they show 150 in there food.

Again thanks for the responses and help. I really just want to feed my animals the best food I can afford, WITH a company with a good history and it just seems that Fromm grain free cat food might be the best bang for your bunk. I also wonder if the Taurine levels are higher in cat food vs dog food? Seems that could actually be a huge benefit with all the FDA research going on ATM.

[J S]

haleycookie, I do care about what you and others are saying…There has just not been a real reason on why not to do this. Well maybe kibble size

[anonymous]

Below is an excerpt from http://www.vetstreet.com/our-pet-experts/why-does-my-dog-make-a-beeline-for-cat-food click on link for full article

If you still have questions please consult a veterinary nutritionist (a veterinarian that specializes in nutrition) Otherwise you are just speculating and listening to opinions, you could potentially cause harm to your pet.

Quote “Even if your pup is one of those with an iron gut, long term it is not good for a dog to eat primarily cat food, Dr. Crowell-Davis says. It’s not properly balanced for them in terms of the fiber and protein and certain nutrients. Plus, it can be hard on their liver and their kidneys to have so much protein. Even more important, though, is the vice versa — make sure that your kitty is not fed a diet of dog food. “There are two essential ingredients in cat food that are not in dog food,” she says. “Taurine is an amino acid that dogs can manufacture in their own bodies but cats cannot, and also arachidonic acid, which is a fatty acid that cats need.”
“For the safety and health of your pet, limit the majority of your pet’s diet to food that has been produced specifically for his or her species”. Unquote

[J S]

Thank you anon101 for that. I have read that myself and agree with it. The cat food in question is no higher in protein than other dog foods so that should not be a issue? Fiber and fat are also on line with premium dog food as well.

I get that most articles/people talk about Protein levels because some cat foods are REALLY high like 50’s+, but Fromms cat foods are 40 and lower thus why I even started this thread.

I would think that everyone would be excited about this? No

[anonymous]

No. You are wrong. Sorry.

If you consult a veterinary nutritionist (veterinarian that specializes in nutrition) and spend a little money for their time, they will explain it in detail.
I am not a veterinary healthcare professional, neither is anyone else here.

[J S]

Wrong about?

[anonymous]

I am not here in a professional capacity. I gave you my recommendations. Do what you want. I am not going to support an opinion that does not make sense.
Good luck

[J S]

I’m not trying to cause any trouble I simply started this thread to find out exactly why cat food is bad for dogs.

ATM it seems:
To high protein levels
To high fat levels
To high fiber levels
Vitamins not the same
Kibble size

So yes that would eliminate a good amount of cat foods. But why would some cat foods that are equal or close to the same in everything not be ok? Is it just that we have heard not to so better safe than sorry? Is there a magic secret ingredient that is bad for Dogs that are not listed on the Analysis info in Cat food?

I’m looking for facts

[J S]

You say I’m wrong and that it doesn’t make sense but you haven’t told me why!

[anonymous]

“You say I’m wrong and that it doesn’t make sense but you haven’t told me why”!

Again, I am not a veterinary healthcare professional, therefore I cannot answer your questions. I have provided my opinions and hope that they are helpful.

[J S]

Thank you

[anonymous]

You’re welcome.

[haleycookie]

The vitamins are all off. And there’s a specific reason for that. I would get with a vet nutritionalist or email fromm and see what they say. Long term vitamin deficiencies are dangerous. That’s the only cause for concern I can see.

[J S]

Thanks haleycookie I did speak with Fromm and they are sending me exactly the differences. I’ll report when I get the email.

[Spy Car]

It is utter nonsense that a dog food can the “too high in fat and protein.” The truth is that fats and proteins are what canines were shaped by evolution to consume as an optimal diet and–in contrast–carbohydrates are non-essential, not “natural,” and are detrimental to health.

Carbohydrates are in dog foods for only two reasons:

1) Because the cereal-making machinery that was converted to produce dog food requires a substantial amount starch in the manufacturing process.

2) Feeding carbs (and plant-based proteins) reduces costs to producers and increases profits.

But there are no essential nutrients in carbohydrates. None.

Dogs who are fed fat as a primary energy source have much higher stamina than dogs fed a high carb kibble diet.

Some folks who admit not having expertise in these matters sure seem to like putting out false information.

Bill

[J S]

Very interesting! Thanks Bill for the information. Do you have any feedback on the whole Cat food for Dogs debate?

[Tyrionthebiscuit]

If it’s raw following 80/10/10 ratio, I don’t have a concern between a dog label or a cat label, personally. To me, I get worried when it’s cooked down, kibble labeled for a cat being fed to a dog. That’s more because of vitamin supplementation and I would worry about some being too high or too low in areas for a dog.

[Spy Car]

@JS, I wondered if the Calcium to Phosphorus mineral balance might be different for a cat food vs a dog food, but it isn’t. There are some dog foods, like Victors Ultra Pro, that have higher protein and fat percentages (42/22) which is a decided positive, despite the misinformation you are getting from some sources.

I feed my dog a PMR style raw diet. No Carbs. Best thing ever. Better teeth, better coat, better energy (while also calm), great muscle mass with no body fat.

Cats fed PMR eat exactly the same way dogs do, with the exception being that cats need an adequate source of dietary taurine (as they can’t synthesize their own). I feed regular amounts of taurine-rich beef heart in any case to my dog.

I can’t say (having never investigated the question) whether there are any nutrients in cat food that are not balanced for dogs. I’d want to do due diligence on that question.

But the idea that cat food is too high in protein and fat is a total falsehood. The fewer carbs in the diet the better. Carbs add no essential nutrients to a canine diet. None. They also don’t belong in a feline diet.

Bill

[sheltie sass]

This is anecdotal, but my mother’s old dog didn’t like the kibble she was feeding it. Instead of shopping around for something the dog DID like, or just letting her get hungry enough to eat the kibble, she started buying big bags of cat kibble. (She’s noticed that the dog would eat the cats’ food, given the chance.)

She thought she’d done something clever, since her dog finished the food and licked up every crumb. But after awhile, the dog started getting sick. The vet told her she was dangerously close to ruining the dog’s kidneys, and not to feed cat food any more.

I did find an article to back this up: http://www.vetstreet.com/our-pet-experts/why-does-my-dog-make-a-beeline-for-cat-food

“…long term it is not good for a dog to eat primarily cat food, Dr. Crowell-Davis says. It’s not properly balanced for them in terms of the fiber and protein and certain nutrients. Plus, it can be hard on their liver and their kidneys to have so much protein.”

It really sounds like cat food is formulated with too much protein for dogs, since cats are obligate carnivores, not omnivores. I would think that finding a quality cat food with the correct amount of protein for dogs would be difficult, if not impossible.

I suppose you could feed a percentage of cat food along with some rice or something of that nature, but if you’re doing all that, why not just feed raw?

[haleycookie]

Sheltie sass- did you read spy cars post? Protein has no bad effects on dogs. It’s a myth. In fact you suggest a raw diet which is almost completely made of protein, bones, and fat. I don’t think the protein levels are what’s the issue here. Just as spy car said dogs have no nutritional requirements to dogs (or cats) so adding rice would be counter productive to what the original poster is trying to do.

[Spy Car]

Has anyone else noticed that while cats are “obligate carnivores” that pet food companies never-the-less load up commercial cat “food” with carbohydrates? WTF?

Neither cats nor dogs have any dietary need for carbohydrates in their diets.

Bill

[anonymous]

I would like to offer an opposing viewpoint. Article written by a veterinarian that practices science based veterinary medicine. http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2018/06/dietary-carbohydrates-are-not-toxic-to-cats/ excerpt below, click on link for full article and comments. Also, you can use the search engine there to look up other topics.
Hope this helps someone 🙂

Dietary Carbohydrates are NOT “Toxic” to Cats
Posted on June 19, 2018 by skeptvet
“Folks who are critical of commercial pet foods or advocates for raw diets and other alternatives often rail against the evils of carbohydrates. The idea that dietary carbs cause disease is a central thesis of the recent “Truth About Pet Cancer” video series (my response to which is coming soon!). With cats in particular, the claim is made that since they are obligate carnivores, carbohydrates are effectively poison for this species, causing diabetes, cancer and all sorts of other diseases. There’s only one small problem with this claim: it isn’t true”!

PS: If you are confused about the differing opinions and information that you find on the internet, please consult a veterinary healthcare professional that you trust, discuss your concerns and go from there.

[Spy Car]

SkeptVet is a notoriously dishonest broker who slews his arguments with misleading half-truths. I’ve learned that this source has no credibility and his claim to practice “science-based veterinary medicine” are false.

This is yet another example of what is business as usual at SpeptVet, He has created a straw-man argument here (that, according to him, some people claim carbs are “toxic” for cats). He can easily defeat his own straw-man because–strictly speaking–carbs are not “toxic” (as toxins are defined by science).

But that doesn’t make the argument that carbohydrates are either necessary or beneficial in a feline diet. They are not.

This is a dishonest source who abuses the principles of science to advance his own agenda.

Bill

[anonymous]

I have found that it is best not to be rigid in one’s beliefs, things change, research shows new findings, etc.
Again:
@ the OP and anyone else looking for information, if you are confused about the differing opinions and information that you find on the internet, please consult a veterinary healthcare professional that you trust, discuss your concerns and go from there.

PS: I will not respond to this thread again, I have no wish to debate my opinions back and forth. I hope I have been helpful.

[Spy Car]

And I have found that it is best not to abuse science and engage in deception by presenting half-truths in a fashion that are designed to mislead readers. SkeptVet is not an honest broker.

To be told again and again on a discussion forum on animal nutrition that the only valid approach is to consult a veterinary healthcare professional is obnoxious and troll-like behavior.

Please stop.

Bill

[anonymous]

Your opinion is no more valid than mine.

This is a public forum, are you suggesting that I not express my opinion because I don’t agree with you?

It’s not going to happen. Not as long as I think at least one dog or pet owner may benefit by what I have to say.

[Mike Sagman]

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