[K-Rae]

I started my 4 dogs onto pre-made raw a month ago. They are currenty getting chicken and beef (carnivora.ca), and mixed raw bones to chew on once or twice a week. I plan on switching them onto a different brand (k9choicefoods.com) and serving beef, bison and llama. No more chicken.
My 9 yr old pom/chi and my 8 yr old german shepherd are urinating way to much. The 10 yr old westie is a little more and the 1 yr old collie/chihuahua (yes I know) is completely normal. I have asked my vet for her opinion and she says switch back to kibble and you won’t have a problem, and if it does continue bring them in. I will not switch back to kibble, and the increased urination is the ONLY negative side effect.
– not drinking any more water (actually was less then when on kibble)
– eating supper at 6:30 out several times before bed at 10-11pm and directly before bed
– urine is clear when they mess in the house over night (not sure which dog, but probably the pom)
– eating 2% of their weight (they are at perfect weight and all extremely fit)
– never had any health problems other than food allergies (why we went to raw)
– normal energy level, maybe slightly increased because they feel good
– the pom has started eating feces again (he did it when he was a pup) * I have reviewed other forums on that and will be adding enzymes as per HDM 🙂
– everyone is defecating properly as per raw, not straining and not overally chalky
I am an educated dog owner, and have done my research before switching to raw. The pre-made works best for us because we work in emergency services and really never know when we will be called out and how long we will be gone. We need to be able to have a friend stop by and feed the dogs and can’t expect someone to feed primal raw for us or spend a long amount of time preparing it. I always keep 2 days of food portioned out into sealed glass containers in the fridge.

I am curious if other people that feed raw have had this problem? Did it resolve it’s self? Is it possible it is the chicken diet? I really don’t know? I am at a loss as to why they are urinating so much. Any help is appreciated.

[theBCnut]

I can’t help but wonder if the particular brand you’re feeding has a lot of salt in it. None of mine increased their urination when I switched to raw. Can you do a couple of days of feeding just hamburger or something to get them off the food you’re feeding, just long enough to tell if it affects their urinating, then go back to balanced food? If you didn’t see a change quick, I wouldn’t put off having a urinalysis done.

[Melissaandcrew]

I would isolate the dogs overnight(different rooms) to determine which one is doing the house wetting overnight-My concern is the fact that you are stating the urine is clear, which means the dog does not appear to be concentrating the urine properly and could signify a kidney issue. Take the “offending” dog to the vet once you discover which it is, and have a full chem panel and ua done.

My dogs do not eat 100 percent raw-their meals are varied, but NONE of them urinate excessively when they do get it, nor do they urinate clear.

[AJ A]

I am having the same probems, not sure if it is a problemem or just occuring because feeding raw chicken breast?
Anakin, Lhasa Apso puppy of 12 weeks today
I switched from holistic Fromm kibble to raw diet 2 weeks ago. Today we are on all raw chicken breast and 1 chickenwing a day. The poop is kinda lose but not running and only a tiny poop 1 or sometimes twice a day. He eats quite a lot, 2x times a day, and he eats it within 1 minute.
Now his pee is just a lot. They seem like lakes. On kibble he peed yellow and normal quantities. But now the pee is clear and just a lot of pee. He does not drink more water. Kinda concerned if this is good or not. On kibbles he pees as expected, so kidneys are ok.
Anyone can help me here?

[Anonymous]

I don’t know much about raw diets. But, I am wondering if some of the dry food/kibble (even good quality) have a high sodium content. A decrease in sodium might lead to an increase in urination, I think.

[Bobby dog]

Hi AJ:
If I observed my dog urinating more often the first thing I would do is take him in for a check-up. However, I also have another thought on the subject. I don’t feed a prey model diet, but I do feed some commercial raw. The increase in urination could be from the extra moisture content of his new diet. Maybe someone else will have some thoughts for you as well.

[aimee]

Hi K-Rae,

When feeding high protein diets you are supplying protein in excess of needs. The “excess” in broken down and used for energy. The nitrogen has to be excreted and this requires water to do so. I’ve commonly seen it reported by people on this site that when they switched to a high protein food that they noted their pet was urinating a lot. I searched on “protein dehydrating” and found quite a few articles that discussed this.

That said any change in your pet is a reason for seeking vet care.

[DogFoodie]

Hi AJ,

I’d also take a look at the raw threads in the forum because the diet you’re currently feeding doesn’t sound properly balanced. Are you also feeding some organ meats?

[losul]

Aimee, I tried a search on “protein dehydrating” and “protein dehydrating in dogs” all I came up with was an article or two pertaining to humans and high consumption of protein.

It’s interesting though that I found this article, that said this;

“Other potential factors behind polydipsia and polyuria are low protein diets,”

http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/urinary/c_multi_polydipsia_polyuria

K-Rae, I couldn’t come up with much info on the ingredients in carnivora.ca from their website, not sure, but I get the feeling from reading on it that they are against any carbs in the food? Regardless, I would be trying a different raw diet, and don’t be afraid to to use a good balanced one that does include some moderate carbs, they might do much better on it. It could be that your dogs are still drinking in excess as part of a learned/ingrained behavior from dry food days. I agree with the others though that this polyuria should be reason for concern, and should be investigated further. Seeking vet care/tests would be best, but you could at least do a phone consultation with a vet that knows raw feeding, and then go from there.

AJ, you CANNOT feed your 12 week old puppy nothing but chicken breast and wings, if that’s what you are saying. He will DEFINITELY have malnutrition disorders if you do so, and I would strongly suggest getting him back on a complete and balanced diet.

[crazy4cats]

Losul-

🙂 🙂 🙂

[aimee]

Hi Losul,

The physiology behind it is the same reasoning as with people; urea is a solute. From Nutrient Requirements of Dogs and Cats ” For example, higher protein and/or mineral content of food may increase the solute load and subsequent degree of water consumption and urine production” From Applied Veterinary Clinical Nutrition in regards to patients with renal compromise: “Modified protein diets can help diminish the degree of polyuria and polydipsia because less solute is delivered to the kidneys in the form of proteinaceous wastes.”

There could be other factors as well. I’d think it reasonable that with a raw meat based diet you would have less water loss via feces than a commercial kibble diet.

Yes absolutely, low protein diets ( much lower than AAFCO) will cause dilute urine. The reason again is solute load. In this case is it so low that the concentration gradient in the kidney isn’t maintained.

[AJ A]

Thanks for all your opinions and experiences, I am glad I received replies.
I won’t ever go back to kibble EVER.
And I don’t run to the Vet all the time. I am organic myself since 15 yrs and haven’t seen a doctor since. Not even once!
I use common sense and needed to see if my case was only happening to my pup. As I can see it is definitely the water in the meat. Thats why they dont need to drink as much water as they do with kibble. Today I controlled a little the water intake and he pees less often, but still bigger spots than before and specially after feeding the chicken. He is doing just fine and has top energy, his coat started shining and it is growing faster than it was 1 month ago.
Before I switched to raw I did a deep education to be prepared, asking raw feeding breeders all over from Australia to Germany, checked everything online and started to understand that raw diet should not contain veggies neither grains like the BARF diet.. Wolves dont get a complete balanced diet everyday, neither do we and certainly they wont be searching for carrots, spinach and grains in their habitat. They receive the fermented enzymes from the digested food of their prey’s tripe, thats the good stuff, thats what they will eat first, thats where lots of balanced nutrients are.
When starting a raw diet with puppies (especially small breed) you best start with chicken, because low fat and easier digested than ground beef. Because I tried both, beef (grass fed 95%lean) and chicken. He regurgitated the whole ground beef everytime he ate it. He never did with the chicken. The wing helps cleaning his teeth and he gets supplements from the core of the bone and calcium.1 egg a week for breakfast. I give bone meal since he does not yet get enough bones in his food yet. Once he is used to the chicken and wings/necks I will start to join some liver and heart and green tripe little by little to not upset his digestion. Than we will do the same with duck, lamb and rabbit including organ and muscle meat as well. Of course a meaty bone everyday or 3 times a week.
Once established his likes than we can start feeding 1 day chicken, next duck and so on. I forgot the fish. Some fresh fish once a week is important as well.
I think probiotics , enzymes and clay are a must have in the kitchen. So is ionic silver and therapeutic grade essential oils like geranium, peppermint, frankincense and lemon. When they get lose stool some clay with enzymes/probiotics and diarrhea is cleared.
I use ionic silver to disinfect drinking water, once in a while internal against parasites and to clear my Shih Tzu’s eyes (14yrs). He suffers dry eyes and since he is on raw diet as well since 2 weeks his dry eye symptoms are already totally gone!! Yeahhhh! Now I hope to see changes in his coat like color and softness. His constant fear should disappear as well and his appetite should get better and better. I really hope to gain some more years of his company. I love him so much and hope we can gain back as much health as he has lost due to those bad kibble diet. He lost some of his hair on his back and I truly hope the high protein intake will fix most of his problems.
I stopped using vaccines on my Shih Tzu since 10yrs, neither I believe in spaying/neuter dogs. My pup received vaccines from her Vet, he won’t ever receive any other vaccines in his life. I dont believe it does any good, not for pets and neither for humans. Build up a healthy immune system and eat organic food and you will be fine!!! Same for dogs. THEY ARE DOGS NOT HUMANS!!! THEY DESERVE TO EAT HOW NATURE DESIGNED THEM TO.

[AJ A]

I just found the cause of the excessive urinating in dogs after feeding raw organic chicken. Please check out this link:
http://www.cookinglight.com/m/eating-smart/nutrition-101/sodium-in-chicken

I will certainly stop feeding this kind of chicken for my dogs as we speak and myself as well. I always asked myself why chicken meat contains all this liquid. WOW, I spent all this money for organic certified chicken for my dogs and was feeding high amounts of sodium. Thats just wrong!!!
.

[AJ A]

By the way. I have tried Primal and Natures Variety Instinct, over $100 still sitting in my freezer. If I think about raw meat I expect to see raw food and not a paste looking mushy something once defrosted. Also the smell is anything else than close to raw meat.
The only real raw food I found is Darwin’s. It was all real meat, unfortunately the meat was ground and dogs should get at least little chunks to satisfy their way of eating. Darwin’s uses 10% veggies in their food and veggies should not be offered to dogs as well. They don’t hurt but their body is not designed to digest veggies. Dogs are carnivores and their body is all made for eating whole carcasses, skin, feathers, fur, organs, in other words the whole prey. On their menu you can sometimes find some wild berries and grass, assisting in digestive disorders.When you see a dog eating grass he has an upset stomach.

[InkedMarie]

AJ A,
look at Hare Today and Reel Raw Dog. Both offer grinds (no produce) and whole meats and bones. It’s what I buy for raw.

[K-Rae]

SO I posted my question two years ago…March 2013….We have been on raw ever since. We continued on with the chicken, started feeding less of it to the dogs effected with excessive urination and it totally went away. We feed a lot of chicken and turkey still since we now have 7 dogs, and have never encountered the problem again. So my best guess is that it was their systems getting in check with a proper raw diet.

[Alan I]

I moved my 8yo Jack Russell onto a Raw Food Diet about four months ago. She suddenly started urinating a lot and having accidents in the house (something she’d never done before) so I took her to the vets. I then received a panic call to say her ketones were really high and that she had critical diabetes. I was obviously rattled by this and we began (7 weeks ago) to inject her with insulin twice a day. The vet tried to get me onto diabetic kibble but I refused.

There isn’t much online about ketogenic diets in dogs but lots on humans and what it all says is ketone levels are always high which you cut out carbs and rely on protein for your energy – it’s obvious really when you think about it. Having read these threads I’m starting to think that her increased urination was a function of the change and her ketone levels had nothing to do with diabetes but were just natural.

I have now challenged the vet – no response yet – to find another measure for diabetes. Obviously they also did a glucose curve which was very shallow (it’s supposed to spike after food then drop) but I watched a lecture on ketogenesis online yesterday that said those on a ketogenic diet don’t have spiked glucose curves – again this is obvious as they are not having to produce lots of insulin to process the sugar in carbs.

I’m wondering if anybody has a view. I now fear my dog doesn’t have diabetes, in which case I could be poisoning her with insulin. Over production of insulin causes triglycerides which lead to weight gain and all sorts of other complications! I feel like I’m between a rock and a hard place.

HELP!!

[AJ A]

I personally don’t think it is diabetes or anything wrong with the dog. The excessive urination since it is clear and not dark yellow and concentration is always a good sign. I still think their is excessive salt in the meats, we really don’t know where the meat we buy comes from and what they do to keep it tender and juicy. If I eat salty I pee like crazy.
Mine is a puppy and a 14yrs old Shih Tzu. My pups still pees more, but its getting less often, also I did not change diet. My Shih Tzu pees bigger but not more often, he is on the same diet.
I am not concerned since I see my dogs energetic and active, no abnormal behavior . I don’t run to the Vet unless emergency situation, I try to make common sense. Most Vets are only into your money and getting you into their dietary kibbles where they earn commission on selling it.
Haven’t found yet a Vet promoting raw feeding.

[Anonymous]

Homeopathic veterinarians tend to be supportive of raw feeding, examples: http://vitalanimal.com/feed-for-vitality/

http://www.homeovet.net/content/lifestyle/section1.html

Here is the diet he recommends: http://www.homeovet.net/dynamic/php/downloads/dog-c8470f2c75dbe4b683205c3919ee2310/dog_diet_complete.pdf

PS: Just my opinion, but, I don’t think that all traditional veterinarians are bad…just as I don’t believe all homeopathic veterinarians are good.

Sometimes, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

[Author]

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