[Susan]

Hi Reese,
Have a look at “Earthborn Holistic Venture” formula’s? look at Alaska Pollock Meal & Pumkin formula the only problem with Venture formula’s they’re “very”high in fiber this fish formula is-13% fiber..
I do not feed any fish dry foods as they have been found to be higher in toxins & contaminates, so make sure you rotate with another brand that isn’t fish…
What I like about Earthborn Venture formula’s is Earthborn writes the plant protein % of all their carbs, so you can see how much pea protein %, the Pumkin protein %, Butter squash protein in all the Venture dry formula’s..
https://www.earthbornholisticpetfood.com/dog-food-formulas/venture/alaska-pollock-meal-pumpkin
When you look at Earthborn Venture Pork Meal & Butter Squash formula you’ll see it has 35% Pea protein, so this shows us when there’s just 1 meat protein meal as 1st ingredient then a carb as 2nd ingredient, then peas-3rd ingredient, the pea% (Legumes) becomes VERY high over 20%..
Ingredients – Pork Meal, Butternut Squash, Peas, Pea Protein, Flaxseed, Sunflower Oil
https://www.earthbornholisticpetfood.com/dog-food-formulas/venture/pork-meal-
butternut-squash

If a dry kibble has any Legumes just stay under 20% in Legumes & rotate with another brand….
Like my boy as soon as he eats any kibbles with grains he becomes real itchy 20mins after eating the grain food also he has IBD & his poo’s becomes very sloppy you can’t pick up his poo’s, he does really well on Sweet Potato & Potato kibbles & Im staying with the “Wellness Core” Large Breed Adult formula, he’s doing well on it for his IBD, it has 3 meat proteins as 1st, 2nd & 3rd ingredient then it has Potatoes 4th, then peas are 5th ingredient….
I make sure there’s at least 2-4 meat proteins as 1st, 2nd, 3rd ingredients, this way there’s less carbs, so less legumes (peas).

*Here’s Farmina Pet Foods. They look very good so they’re probably expensive.
https://www.farmina.com/us/dog-food/54-n&d-quinoa-functional-canine.html

*Here’s Farmina Grain free formula’s.
https://www.farmina.com/us/eshop-dog/dog-food/10-natural-&-delicious-grain-free-canine.html

[susan k]

Thanks crazy4cats! I used to use BalanceIt, with formulas I got from that company’s nutritionists. My very picky, stomach-challenged Cairn didn’t like the BalanceIt at all — would only eat her homemade chicken and rice if I didn’t put the powder in it! I will wait till Koby’s taurine test on Tuesday before deciding what to do — almost ALL of the dogs that tested low in taurine (there’s an Excel file from UC Davis someone kindly posted, above) are Goldens, and none are Cairns, though one was on Wellness Core kibble like Koby is. If his taurine is low I guess I’ll try BalanceIt again — my vet suggested I go with one of the big brands (Purina, Iams, Hills, Royal Canin) and overall I really trust her but I just can’t go with all those chemicals. Anyway I will post the taurine test results when I get them — probably later next week.

[anonymous]

Wellness Core appears to have a lot of potato….
Just saying. Potatoes are mentioned just as prominently in the FDA alert as legumes are.

We are transitioning to Fromm Classic Adult from Zignature. One week now, all is well.

We have had no problems with Zignature, just going by what veterinarians are recommending (grain inclusive dog food) till the results of the FDA investigation are in.

[Mark C]

Just curious. I noticed in the latest clarification from the FDA that they are looking into potatoes. That includes the sweet potatoes potato protein, etc. Here’s my dilemma: my vet told me to cut back on my dogs food and one way to do it was to feed them sweet potato! In light of the FDA’s revelation would you continue feeding your dog sweet potatoes? I’d love to ask my vet but I hate to spend $100 just for an office visit. Also; does anybody have any ideas of other high fiber foods that would fill up a dog that I could give them when I cut back on their kibble? I also gave them vegetables broccoli Collie flower carrots but it seemed the sweet potato fill them up a lot more so now I’m trying to figure out what to do.

[anonymous]

As long as you are feeding a grain inclusive dog food that meets AAFCO requirements, this seems to be what vets are recommending till the results of the FDA investigation are in.
Assuming that your dog doesn’t have a medical condition that requires him to be on a grain-free food.
If sweet potatoes are working as a topper, I would not be concerned.

[Eve M]

Saturday, I went to our locally owned dog and cat food store here in Austin and of course, this report came up. The manager said based on everything she could glean from the initial FDA report, chat rooms, dog food distributors, etc is that when and if a dog food(s) is named it will be one of the more low-grade mass produced store brands.

Meanwhile, I changed from Stella due to peas and whatever being 3rd and 4th. Simply went to a higher protein food and throw in eggs here and there.

So confusing, an alarmist headline and small sample size… yeah.

[anonymous]

LOL! Of course the dog food supply stores are going to minimize this and blame the grocery store dog foods!
They have a ton of people that are returning unopened bags of grain-free foods on a daily basis due to the FDA alert.

Many pet owners are being advised by veterinary healthcare professional to go back to using one of the well known company grain-inclusive dog foods. The larger companies are more likely to employ veterinary nutritionists and run feeding trials.

I was looking at Royal Canin (sold at supermarkets). But decided to go with Fromm Classic Adult.

PS: The latest https://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/ResourcesforYou/AnimalHealthLiteracy/ucm616279.htm

@ Mark C You can call your vet and ask him to call you back when he has a minute and ask a question. They don’t charge for that (mine doesn’t) If you are worried about it…..

[crazy4cats]

The two brands I’ve heard mentioned and seen on some spreadsheets are Acana and Zignature, not grocery store foods.

[anonymous]

NO SPECIFIC BRANDS ARE BEING NAMED IN THE FDA ALERT (at this time).

Just in the rumor mill.

[Michele K]

I am also very concerned about this situation, as I have a older boxer (9.5 y/o) and a 4 mo old boxer puppy. I have fed Blue Buffalo almost my older boxers whole life, and she is very healthy (no health problems ever), so I have started my pup on the same brand (Wilderness for Large breed puppies). The amount of peas and potatoes in the Grain Free is concerning, especially with this new research. What is a person to do? I wanted to make my own food, but was advised by my vet not to until pup turned at least 1 year old. She was concerned with him not getting the proper nutritional values. However, I feel at a loss because if I made my own food, I would at least know what the heck was put in it!!!!! SOOOO confused and feeling extremely worried about the health of my pup.

[anonymous]

Nope, homemade foods are usually deficient http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=homemade+diet

Why not find a grain inclusive food that you like and mix it 1/2 and 1/2 with the food that your dogs are doing well on?
That’s what I would be inclined to do, at least till this grain free scare is over.

Let’s see what the results of the investigation are, may not be anything….

[Michele K]

Thanks Anan101……that is a good idea. I was also thinking about doing 1/2 along with wet puppy food, as it has less fillers and more actual meat products. I know this is a more expensive option, but the health of my dogs is more important than saving a few bucks (my personal opinion).

[anonymous]

I get it, that’s why I always add different things, I consider the kibble to be the base, not the entire meal.
My dogs have been doing excellent on Zignature as a base (x a few years) but due to the alert I am making some changes. May go back, we’ll see. No need to panic.

[susan k]

I think some of our alarm over this may be premature. Most of the dogs who’ve presented with DCM are Golden Retrievers. A few others are in the mix who aren’t typically prone to DCM like Goldens are, which is what triggered the alert. The common thread seems to be grain-free and/or exotic diets (kangaroo and quinoa, things like that). I considered home cooking with a good vet-approved supplement, but home diets aren’t ideal — it’s hard to get them right. Most vets recommend AGAINST home cooking and ARE recommending a big-brand grain-included food (Royal Canin, Iams, Purina, etc.) — but 1) most of those foods do have pea/legume ingredients and/or potatoes somewhere in the mix, and 2) most of the cases of DCM (though not all) have taurine deficiency. Low taurine has been pinpointed as the culprit in DCM in cats for many years, and many dog foods now have added taurine. It’s important to note that most dietary taurine comes from meats, not grains — it’s not the lack of grains that’s the problem with grain-free foods, though added potatoes and/or legumes may block or diminish taurine absorption. I feed Wellness grain-free Core (chicken variety) and Koby and I both like it — it’s not full of chemical additives like the big-name brands are (which may be carcinogens), its protein level is high, Dogfood Advisor gives it 5 stars, and it does have added taurine. I have just had Koby (who shows no signs of heart failure or any other health problem) tested for taurine — I don’t have the results back yet but they should be in this week and I will post them. In the meantime, while we wait for more information on what’s really going on here — and unless Koby’s taurine level comes back low or he shows signs of DCM — I’m continuing to feed Wellness Core because it’s AAFCO tested, human grade, good protein level, taurine added, and Koby likes it and has always been very healthy on it. He’s about 4 (he was a rescue and a stray before that) but I’ve had him over two years and he’s been on this food since I got him (and when he was in foster through Cairn Rescue he was on another grain free, don’t remember which) — so he’s been grain-free for quite a while.

One or two of the Goldens with DCM in the UC Davis study were on Wellness Core — but Goldens are much more likely to develop DCM than most other breeds. I don’t recall whether these Goldens were taurine-deficient. Someone on this thread posted the link to the spreadsheet from that study, or at least I think I got it from this thread, but I can’t find it now. I would very much like to find it again — if anyone out there reading this is the one who posted the link, PLEASE post again!

[anonymous]

Just because an ingredient is human-grade doesn’t mean that it’s automatically safe for your pet to eat. What may be considered edible to a human could be dangerous to your dog. Whether or not a food can be consider a human-grade dog food has absolutely no impact on dog food safety, according to AAFCO resources about human-grade dog food. Instead, dog foods have their own set of strict standards and regulations. (excerpt from) https://www.purina.com/dogs/dog-articles/understanding-dog-food/what-is-human-grade-dog-food

[crazy4cats]

A week or two ago, Anon, you said the FDA alert was BOGUS. Followed up by Legumes Rock! Of course the post has been deleted along with many of your other posts on the review side of this site. It’s not a rumor, Acana was named in a report from UC Davis and I saw Acana and Zignature along with several other foods on the Diet & Taurine Table. Actually a few dogs fed Fromm are also on the table as having low taurine.

http://mckeevervetderm.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/543/2017/09/TaurineDef.Goldens.pdf

Susan K- If you join the Taurine-Deficient Dilated Cardiomyopathy FB group, you will see the most up to date spreadsheet for the Diet & Taurine Table. I know someone posted it on this site, but they ask not to republish it. It has been updated since it was posted here.

They are not saying the food has caused the low taurine levels yet. They are just collecting data so far. You might be right, it could just be Goldens tendency to have it. Or could be coincidental that a lot of dogs are just eating grain free foods these days. Who knows?

It’s always been thought that dogs made their own taurine from other amino acids and didn’t need supplementation like cats do. I wonder what is going on with these dogs??? I hope they figure it out soon!

[crazy4cats]

Mark C-
What are you feeding your dog? Could you switch to a lower calorie food in lieu of adding sweet potato to the food?

If you feed a lower calorie food you can feed more, or you could add a quality low fat/calorie canned good to it adding moisture and possibly making the dog feel more satisfied.

I’m actually a fan of sweet potatoes. My dogs do well with them used as the carb in their kibble. But at this time, I’m keeping them to a minimum. Good luck!

[pitlove]

@susan k

The issue is actually not foods being deficient in taurine like it was in the 80s with cats, but that the legumes in grain free diets are actually preventing the absorption of taurine. Big difference. So yes grain free products right now ARE the problem. Why take the risk?

Wellness makes plenty of grain inclusive products if you want to stay with that company. There is nothing at all superior about a food simply because it is free of grains.

[crazy4cats]

But, are they preventing the absorption and/or the production of it too? I don’t think they really know the answer to that. Or, really anything.

But, I agree why take the risk until they figure it out. There does seem to be some type of correlation.

[susan k]

Crazy4cats, many thanks for your suggestion — I got on the FB page and found the spreadsheet I was looking for. NO Cairns on the table and NO Core chicken formula, which is what I feed. So at least I feel better about that, for the moment!

Pitlove, grain-free products are not necessarily the problem — it’s true that legumes / potatoes may be blocking taurine absorption, but some dogs (almost all Goldens) on the spreadsheet had low taurine / DCM on grain-full formulas including Wellness Complete Health (and many other foods). Wellness Grain-Free does add taurine, and I also feed toppers — chicken, eggs, tuna, salmon, a little bit of whatever protein I have as long as it’s OK for dogs to eat (no onions, no grapes, no chocolate, none of the stuff that we know isn’t good for them).

The truth is we’re all upset about this and we’re all trying to figure out what to do. Nobody has any real answers yet, which is why since my dog shows no signs of illness and we like his food I’ll stick with it FOR NOW unless his taurine test comes back deficient.

[crazy4cats]

Glad you found it. Sounds good, please let us all know how the test comes out. Best wishes!

[susan k]

Thanks so much, crazy4cats. I will post the test results as soon as I get them.

[Christine W]

Sorry to sound dumb,but how do i know if the Wellness Core i feed meets the AAFCO ?

[Mark C]

Since the grain free revelation I switched to Nutro Ultra low fat. Not great and while it does have some pea protein it is supplemented with some Taurine. Perhaps this and more excercise is all they need. Previously they were eating Merrick Healthy Weight and I and Love and You naked essentials. I decided to try a grain food and they seem to be doing ok on Nutro. I am considering switching them to Fromm Classic mature. Low protein, but I can deal with boosting that. I will also look into a good wet food to take the place of fiber to fill them up as the doc suggested. I am limiting the sweet Potato to err on the side of caution. I know a lot of people think I’m silly for “jumping the gun” by switching to grain inclusive food. But, it’s my responsibility to keep my 4 guys healthy so I’d rather be silly than sorry.

[anonymous]

@ Christine W

It will say on the bag or the can in small print somewhere that it meats the requirements of AAFCO.

Also mentioned on the product’s website.

[Susan]

Hi Christine,
YES Wellness does meet AAFCO..
Here’s the Wellness site.

Core Dog Products

Click on the Wellness formula your dog is eating at the moment, then slowly scroll down
after you see “Feeding Guidelines” you’ll see
“Nutrient Profiles” then this undernealth you’ll see
The Nutrient Profile for this product is also available for download. GET THE PDF
click on “GET THE PDF”
& it will download all the “Nutrient Profile” on your particular dog food you’re feeding.

[Christine W]

OMG Susan! thank you so much! i take it this statement is what i WANT to see? I also use the Reduced Fat that says the same.Thank you!!!!

Wellness CORE Small Breed Deboned Turkey, Turkey Meal & Chicken Meal Recipe is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles for maintenance.

[Christine W]

Thank you Anon!! 🙂

[Spy Car]

Hate to tell you but meeting AAFCO standards says virtually nothing. Food trials only need to keep dogs alive for a short time frame with no serious repercussions, and a fair number of dogs are allowed to drop out. Almost meaningless.

I will beg to differ with Anon 101 on the quality of USDA meats that are approved for human consumption vs the contaminated/condemned products that are completely legal and AAFCO allowed diseased, downed, dying and dead animals that are allowed to be rendered into dog food. AAFCO standard even allows rendering dead dogs and cats for dog food.

Bill

[Susan]

Hi Christine,

Yes Patch is eating the “Wellness Core” Large Breed Formula it’s very similar ingredients to the Wellness Core Small Breed kibble size is smaller, I thought if I can’t get the Large Breed formula is all sold out I can get a small bag of the Wellness Small Breed.
Patch has IBD & he is doing Excellent, he has gained weight & kept it on & he is staying on 18-19kgs, normally thru the Winter months he loses weight but since I’ve started him on Wellness Core Large Breed in March his weight is staying on…
I also Rotate & feed him “Royal Canine” Intestinal Low Fat wet can food or “Hills” I/d Digestive Care Stew for lunch so he has something different..

I agree with Spy Car post above this post,
toxins & contaminates are very high in alot of dog foods especially fish formula’s & AAFCO allows these foods to be sold while dogs get sick & die…. AAFCO doesn’t mean much when I see it…
In Australia we just had over 100 dogs die from 2 different brands of dry kibble that is AAFCO approved dry dog foods….

If you can add fresh healthy ingredients, meat & vegetables to your dogs diet, add them & feed less dry kibble…

[Christine W]

Thank you! glad your baby is doing good! yes i feed them fresh turkey on & off, i have done hours & hours of homework on food for them, these horrid stories are scary,it makes us pet owners feel helpless.

[anonymous]

The Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO) is a voluntary membership association of local, state and federal agencies charged by law to regulate the sale and distribution of animal feeds and animal drug remedies.

Purpose and Function of AAFCO
Although AAFCO has no regulatory authority, the Association provides a forum for the membership and industry representation to achieve three main goals:
Safeguarding the health of animals and humans
Ensure consumer protection
Providing a level playing field of orderly commerce for the animal feed industry.
These goals are achieved by developing and implementing uniform and equitable laws, regulations, standards, definitions and enforcement policies for regulating the manufacture, labeling, distribution and sale of animal feeds – resulting in safe, effective and useful feeds by promoting uniformity amongst member agencies.
(excerpt from) https://www.aafco.org/Industry

[Spy Car]

AAFCO standards are a joke. The purpose is to give the illusion that there is is a regulating authority when in fact AAFCO allows the most appalling practices (and ingredients) imaginable.

AAFCO doesn’t ensure quality food. Quite to the contrary. This is a group that’s in the hands of the pet food industry to provide a fig-leaf for very bad practices.

Bill

[pitlove]

@susan k

The dogs tested back with low taurine because their bodies aren’t able to absorb it due to the legumes in the food. See what I’m saying now?

Golden Retrievers were the original breed studied for this some time ago, but now the concern is that it is effecting breeds that do not commonly have DCM issues genetically.

If you are willingly to take such a large risk for such small reward (grain free is not superior to grain inclusive just so you understand) that is your choice. But the only thing being accomplished here is the grain free pushing companies getting to laugh their way to the bank with your money in hand.

[anonymous]

I would not consider feeding a dog food that does not meet AAFCO standards. Except for prescription food/therapeutic diet. Just my opinion.
Excerpt from: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2009/07/pet-food-nutrition-myths/

AAFCO creates guidelines and models but has no regulatory authority. However, their ingredient definitions and nutritional standards are often adopted by the FDA in their regulation of pet foods. A food can be certified as meeting AAFCO standards based on nutrient analysis done by the manufacturer. Or it can be certified as “feeding trial tested” based on trials conducted by the manufacturer. These often last 10weeks (for growth diets) to 6 months (for maintenance diets) and involve regular clinical and laboratory monitoring. Unfortunately, a food can also be certified as “feeding trial tested” without an actual feeding trial if it is ruled by FDA substantively similar (in the same “product family”) to a food that has undergone feeding trial testing. Clearly,, this is less than ideal but without the political will to fund government testing of all pet foods marketed, these standards at least ensure a minimum level of adequacy, and they are certainly preferable to the complete lack of standards that apply to most home-cooked diets or those marketed outside the official regulatory system.

[Spy Car]

It isn’t like “grain” is a positive in canine diets. If there is a problem with feeding legumes, the answer isn’t to feed grain. It is to stop feeding legumes.

This isn’t a binary choice. Suggesting otherwise is a false dichotomy.

Bill

[Spy Car]

The AAFCO feeding trials only require 8 dogs. 2 of whom can be dropped (say what?).

Six dogs need to survive 6 months. Not drop more than 15% of body weight and pass blood tests. Big deal.

These trials are no guarantees a dog food is healthful, much less optimal.

All it provides is a false sense of security.

Bill

[anonymous]

Have no clue as to what you are talking about (in response to the above post).
I will go by what my veterinarian advises.
I don’t believe that no testing (dog food) is a better option than what AAFCO offers…..
@ pitluv
You seem to forget to mention potatoes? You do know that they were mentioned just as prominently as legumes as a factor…..

• This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by anonymous.

[Spy Car]

Here is what AAFCO allows in dog food: Fluffy.

Bill

[anonymous]

I do not consider propaganda posted by who knows who on YouTube to be a legitimate source of information.

Good try though, I appreciate your passion on the subject. I will stick with the veterinary healthcare professionals that have gone to school for 10 to 20 years, continue to obtain education and love animals.
That is who I choose to believe.

[anonymous]

Who is Fluffy? Is that supposed to be amusing? I don’t get it.

[Spy Car]

The official in the video is a former head of AAFCO.

Obviously, anon101, you didn’t watch the video, yet you brand it “propaganda” sight unseen.

LOL.

Bill

[anonymous]

Oh, a disgruntled ex-employee. Got it 🙂

I did try to watch it… couldn’t tolerate more than a few minutes. Didn’t make sense, based on my knowledge and experience.

If you choose to believe it, good luck.

[joanne l]

I agree grain free foods are just a new way for companies to make more money. Dogs are not meant to eat BEANS of any kind. I know they should not eat grain either but something has to bind the food and grains are really not a problem for most dogs. If you think about it wolves eat grass and who knows wheat in the grass but never BEANS. And even when they eat the animals stomach contents, what animal eat beans?? If I ate chickpeas, lentils, peas I would live in my toilet. LOL but that just me and my opinion.

[Tyrionthebiscuit]

How did you watch a few minutes of a 43 second video? And former head is labeled a disgruntled ex employee? Really?

In any case, while it’s good to see AAFCO statement on a bag, it does allow for questionable foods, like Nature’s Logic, to get a stamp of “approval” when their foods contain nutrients in the dangerous level range.

[Reese B]

Spycar said: “It isn’t like “grain” is a positive in canine diets. If there is a problem with feeding legumes, the answer isn’t to feed grain. It is to stop feeding legumes.
This isn’t a binary choice. Suggesting otherwise is a false dichotomy.”

Spycar, I totally agree with this statement, but there aren’t any companies (that I can find) that are making grain free and legume free foods. What are you feeding you dogs?

[anonymous]

“How did you watch a few minutes of a 43 second video? And former head is labeled a disgruntled ex employee? Really”?

It felt like an hour, I saw nothing that had any meaningful content. I hope you don’t mind if I express my opinion.

[Spy Car]

@Reese B,

I feed my dog meat, organs, soft-edible bone, fish, eggs, and other animal-based products in PMR style ratios.

Bill

[Spy Car]

Oh, a disgruntled ex-employee. Got it 🙂

I did try to watch it… couldn’t tolerate more than a few minutes. Didn’t make sense, based on my knowledge and experience.

If you choose to believe it, good luck.

Now you are inventing things? The guy was the head of AAFCO. Now you claim without evidence that he’s a disgruntled ex-employee? LOL. Why state deliberate falsehoods.

Hard to watch a few minutes of a 43-second video. LOL.

Your veracity isn’t being helped here.

Bill

[susan k]

I promised crazy4cats I’d report the results of Koby’s taurine test — he’s been on Wellness Core chicken formula ever since I got him two years ago, as I’ve reported earlier. I do feed him bits of whatever protein I have for dinner — eggs, salmon, chicken — and sometimes a little cheese for a treat — but the basis of his diet is the Wellness Core, which is grain-free, and it DOES have potatoes and peas, though not in the first four ingredients. I am delighted to say that Koby’s taurine test is fine — in fact his taurine level is a little above normal.

I think we are all tired and frustrated with the dog food industry and everyone on this forum is trying to figure out how to solve a problem that is, in large part, beyond our control. So I am trying to let the several scolding replies I’ve received about saying I was staying on Core till I got my dog’s taurine test results roll off me like water off a duck’s back. But I want to point out that my delight and relief at Koby’s excellent test results does NOT mean I advocate grain-free food for all dogs or any such thing. Again, we don’t know if taurine deficiency (that is, if peas and potatoes result in inability to absorb taurine) is the real cause of this epidemic of heart failure in dogs, since some dogs in the studies do NOT have low taurine, AND some dogs in the studies who DO have LOW taurine are eating foods rich in grains. And again, the great majority of dogs who’ve developed heart failure that provide the data for the studies we’ve been debating are Golden Retrievers, not Cairn terriers. What Koby’s test results DO mean (in addition to the fact that he is enthusiastic, active, a major walker/jogger and a shiny, happy boy) is that for now, he is doing FINE on Wellness core. I will have his taurine checked annually from now on, and I will have him seen by the cardiologist if he EVER develops any heart symptoms, food-related or not. But because his appearance, behavior, and taurine test all point to good health unaffected by the fact that he is on Wellness Core, he will STAY on Wellness Core, at least for now. I will keep an eagle eye on this story as it develops, and on the dog food industry — and I hope all our protests about the problems with the industry are not falling on deaf ears. We all want MUCH better dog food options for our beloved companions, and we want them SOON.

[Author]

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