[RebeccaRose]

Hello, my Shih Tzu is 2 years old & always had digestive issues. Please bear with me & this long post as I give you some history on her first:

She weighs 15 pounds. She is fed a total of 3/4th cup of food daily broken up into three meals, so about a 1/4 cup of food per meal. She is current on all vaccinations.

She has had vomiting issues and diarrhea issues but not together. About a year ago she was vomiting bile each morning. The Vet suggested I break her meals up into 3 with the last being at bedtime. And that worked great, after that just a random vomit here & there. I will say though if I forget or am late for one of those feedings for whatever reason, within an hour or two she will vomit. So I try to be very good to stay on schedule with her meals.

She was on Wellness Core for puppies, then when she turned 1 yr old I put her on Wellness Complete Health Small Breed and she did great on that for about a year… then she started refusing to eat it. So I switched her to 4Health Small Bites this past January. After a few weeks of success on the 4Health I also added a small spoonful of the 4Health canned Chicken & Vegetable Stew. She has done well on this since then, with a few random vomiting episodes for example: once I was late getting home for her middle feeding a couple weeks ago. And another time I tried giving her a spoonful of a different flavor of 4Health’s canned. She almost immediately threw that up.

The diarrhea she’s had in the past has been what we think was caused by stress as it was almost always after a groomer visit. But it would not resolve on its own I always had to take her into the Vet. She was given metronidazole and Albon but we finally figured out that a spoonful of pumpkin on grooming day & maybe a day or two afterward worked like a charm. She is a very nervous dog at both the vet & groomer & varies noises at home also.

So this morning she threw up while I was preparing her breakfast. I thought it might just be that bile in the morning thing so I went ahead & fed her & she ate, I took my daughter to school & when I got back she had thrown up breakfast in her crate. After that she threw up several more times. Even after drinking water. She refused anything to eat even her favorite thing in the world pumpkin.

So I took her to the Vet. Temp was normal. They did an xray (2 scans) and everything was normal except on area in the upper intestines the Vet said looking like a little “thickening” but she didn’t think it was an obstruction or anything because usually with an obstruction they will see all these other things in the gut that she was Not seeing. She felt like it might be some fluid in the intestines.

She asked bunches of questions & I told her there was no way she had gotten into any garbage or people food, we watch her too close for that, and outside I always take her out myself & pick up her poop so I am always watching & there was no way she ate anything outside either.

So the Vet gave her a shot of Cerenia and some tablets to take home. Sucralfate that I’m to half & make a slurry & give to her. And Omeprazole that I’m to half & give as well. Then she gave me 2 cans of the Hills Prescription Diet i/d Low Fat, GI Restore.

We didn’t do any blood work & she did not mention pancreatitis, but when I got home & was looking online I read a lot about that being a cause.

My questions are… should I switch her to a low fat diet? Something easy to digest? I have been trying to educate myself today on what it is that makes dogs have sensitive issues in the first place and what elements in dog foods are the hard to digest problems. I am reading a lot of “go low fat” but I looked on 4Health’s website and it says for the Dry that I feed – 12% Crude Fat (Min.) and 4% Crude Fiber (Max) and for the wet food I feed it says 5% Crude Fat & 1.5% Crude Fiber.

So isn’t that considered low fat according to the chart here at dogfoodadvisor on the best low fat dog foods page? And 4Health is a 4 & 5 star food. I’m not even sure she will eat the I/d low fat food since they told me to wait till later today to give it to her. I’m not even sure it’s food related that’s wrong with her today but given her history & the fact that I know she did not eat something she shouldn’t have… there must be something going on.

Any advice would be appreciated. If she is not better by Monday I have to take her back.

[Anonymous]

I would consider consulting a homeopathic vet, on the home page there is a link to find one in your area: http://www.vitalanimal.com here it is: http://theavh.org/ Pay attention to the percentage of homeopathic cases they treat, holistic does not mean homeopathic.

Or check the blogs on the Vital Animal site for related articles, I don’t believe everything the homeopathic vets have to say, but a lot of it does make sense.

[theBCnut]

Your dog’s symptoms do not sound like pancreatitis, they sound like acid reflux and possibly IBS. Your vet is treating for acid reflux. Often this is caused by a food intolerance and a generally unhealthy gut. My dog with these issues can’t eat any grains of any kind or he starts having these problems. He also has issues with other ingredients, but the grains cause the acid reflux for him. Start looking at ingredient lists and try to figure out what ingredients his problem foods have in common. I also had to add a little apple cider vinegar, probiotics, and digestive enzymes to my dog’s food to get him straightened out, but he never has issues at all anymore unless I feed him one of his trigger foods.

[RebeccaRose]

Well so far she has not thrown up since they gave her the shot of Cerenia. But she is still refusing to eat. She will not eat the Hills I/d. She just sits there. So I tried her regular food & she won’t eat that either. Do I just wait it out & see if she’ll eat tomorrow?

Well I switched from Wellness Complete Health Small Breed & that was Deboned Turkey & Oatmeal. She just refused to eat it anymore. So I switched to the 4Health & that’s Chicken, Chicken Meal, Cracked Pearled Barley are the first few ingredients. I guess most in common there are the grains Oatmeal & Barley. Aren’t those usually well tolerated? Maybe I should try a grain free but I have read some people here say they can be hard on a sensitive stomach. Is low fat not the key? Does Wellness make a grain free sensitive stomach?

[Anonymous]

My dog with allergies and a sensitive stomach does well on Nutrisca dry (fish), my other dogs like Wysong, both combined with a homemade diet.

PS: Are you leaving the food down, free feeding? If so, not a good idea (imo) offer the food twice a day or 4 small meals per day, if she doesn’t eat it after 10-15 minutes pick it up and put it in the fridg, offer it at the next mealtime. Add water to the food, most dogs don’t drink enough. How about plain homemade chicken broth added to the food? Ask your vet if this would be okay.

[Susan]

Hi, I don’t understand WHY your vet put her on a Proton Pump Inhibitor (PPI) “Omeprazole” first, before trying a H2 Blocker first like Zantac or Pepcid….he’s given Carafate that lines the stomach & must be only given on a empty stomach as it will just line any food in the stomach…be CAREFUL on any PPI’s, my vet explained to me how bad PPIs are if taken long term, you are making NO stomach acid & we need Stomach Acid in our stomachs to balance the pH, please read this link my vet told me I can give Patch Losec BUT for only up to 3 days then STOP, never take more then 4 weeks as you can not just stop taking a PPI, you will have awful pain, you feel like your stomach is going to exploded, cause you start making your stomach acid again & he comes back double amount.. I didn’t know all this & have been on Somac for 10years, I’m starting to reduce my 80mg a day dose, I tried just cutting my dose in half but the bad acid reflux was toooooooooo much & very painful, it was awful… http://refluxdefense.com/heartburn_GERD_articles/stomach-acid.html

A lower fat diet is best for Acid Reflux….. I would be booking to have a Endoscope done & Biopsies done, this way you will know what is happening & why this young pup is having all these symptoms, the vet should of recommended this…. I wish I did this first when I rescued my boy but for 1 & 1/2 years, we did blood tests, Ultra scan, test for Pancreatitis tests all came back good, a waste of money…finally Patch had Endoscope & Biopsies done December & he had what I was telling the vet from day 1, he had the Helicobacter infection, vomiting of a morning, always feeling sick, burping acid reflux, sloppy poos, sometimes diarrhea…..poor boy, he was put on triple therapy antibiotics for 3 weeks Metronidazole, Amoxicillin & Zantac to kill the Helicobacter cause my vet does not like using PPI, Losec is normally used but Ranitidine (Zantac) works just aswell without all the side effects from a PPI… I would be using a liquid ant acid like Mylanta or Pepto they work quick… also wet food is better then dry kibble, a low fat diet like turkey breast mince….. in a wet tin food fat must be 2% & under…if you do decide to have a Endoscope done make sure you have the biopsies done as they can tell you so much, when the vets looked down Patches throat & stomach everything look excellent, no scarring from ulcers nothing…

Patch got stomach pain from the Losec, green sloppy poos & his food just sat in his stomach cause he had no stomach acids to digest his food properly & a weird smell came out of his mouth, so I stopped the Losec, put him on Zanatc or use Mylanta when needed only, I changed his diet to a lower fat, Hypoallergenic, Gluten free diet….that just has rice & no grains no lentils or legumes….
you can give slippery elm or Manuka Honey…Slippery Elm is excellent for the stomach…Manuka honey is excellent for acid reflux, u put a little bit of the Manuka honey on small piece of white breed & take 1/2hr before eating…. if you join this F/B group this whole week we have been talking about Acid Reflux in dogs, the F/B group is called “Dogs with Inflammatory Disorders” you will learn so much & everyone is friendly & NICE…..here’s another Link, explaining how Carbohydrates cause GERDs especially if your dog has a intolerance to a carb say Legumes, lentils, barley,oats etc you can get real bad acid reflux…..

[Susan]

Here’s another really good read from Ottawa Valley Dog Whisperer about GERDs & Acid Reflux, Natural remedies for dogs.. the only thing I disagree with is step one, fasting for 1-2 days, the acid will burn the stomach more if there’s no food in stomach causing bad reflux then burning the esophagus, you’d need to coat the stomach with Carafate or Mylanta….. feeding just turkey breast mince 99% fat free & 1 teaspoon boiled pumkin for 1-2 week will rest the esophagus & stomach….I had to do this with Patch….
http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blogspot.ie/2013/12/acid-reflex-gerd-in-dogs-cats-natural.html

[theBCnut]

Yes, for some dogs, low fat is very important, but it really depends on the reason for the issue and whether or not you are dealing with the cause. My dog does not do well on low fat, in fact, he is actually on a high fat diet, but I almost immediately got him off of all his trigger foods. I started mine on an elimination diet pretty quickly and only ever had issues come back when I added back in a food that he was sensitive to.

[RebeccaRose]

LM, no I do not leave the food down. I feed her 3x a day with the last meal at bedtime to help with the stomach not being so empty so long.

Susan, well the reason the Vet gave me for the Omeprazole was in case there was an ulcer. Since she’s such a nervous dog and had been having a rough week.. she’d been to the Vet not this past Wednesday but the one before (March 4th) for her check up & vaccinations, and she had a terrible time, tried to bite the tech a couple times (she’s never done that before usually acts nervous & submissive) and the Vet had to give up giving her the bordetella vaccine in the nose because even with a Tech holding her she still jerked away & gave it to her in shot form instead… then 5 days later this passed Monday she got groomed. So she has been stressed a lot in the passed week & a half but seems funny it would take 4 days to catch up with her. So that was the reason for the omeprazole.

But I understand what you are saying about the PPI’s. She did say that I could do the omeprazole for a few days then switch to half a Pepcid a day if she was better.

Update so far this evening. Still won’t eat. She did get a good drink & keep it down but she had some diarrhea. I don’t know if it’s the illness progressing or just the nerves. If I could get her to take some pumpkin (which usually is her favorite thing in the world) I might could help the diarrhea.

LM, I have tried chicken broth & to my amazement she refused that also. I’m just not sure what’s going on with her.

Susan, I don’t know if I can afford the endoscope & biopsy but will keep that in mind, thank you.

Thanks everyone for all the replies.

[DogFoodie]

How is her mood, RebeccaRose? Does she want to be held or left alone? Is her behavior “normal?”

[Anonymous]

I would consider making an appointment with or asking your vet for a referral to a specialist, seeing as she has not responded to current treatment.
You said she has had these issues for 2 years plus, might be time for another opinion.

[Dori]

In all seriousness I would start feeding your dog a commercial raw diet. Also if she continues to vomit, diarrhea and not eat during the weekend you need to start administering plain, non flavored Pedialite which you can buy over the counter at any pharmacy or grocery store in the baby/infant aisles. Also purchase a syringe. If she won’t drink it, then start administering small amounts, maybe 3cc’s at intervals. You need to keep her electrolytes in check. Make sure it’s plain unflavored so that it doesn’t contain any sugars.

[RebeccaRose]

DogFoodie, no she is not herself. She likes to lay next to me & she doesn’t seem to mind being petted. But she doesn’t show much enthusiasm & definitely no playing. Earlier we noticed she was grunting or groaning softly, groaning may not be the right word though.
She’s also had some times of shivering which she has done before when she didn’t feel well.

LM, I didn’t mean to make it sound like she’s had these problems continually, she actually was doing really well the last year before she just up & decided she wouldn’t eat the Wellness any more.

[RebeccaRose]

Ok Dori, I will do that, thank you. Why do these things always happen on a weekend, right. My Vet is open tomorrow but not Sunday & has a 24 hr page.

I wish she would eat a little something. I’m just worried that her stomach sitting empty so long is just making matters worse.

[Susan]

Hi RebeccaRose, the Losec {Omeprazole} gave Patch very very sloppy poos…. Zantac is the only ant-acid that only works on the stomach & doesn’t affect the bowel, like other ant-acids do, my vet said, so perfect for dogs with IBD, Colitis etc…… PPI’s Losec & Somac do affect the bowel giving, bad wind, gas, diarrrhea google side effect to Omeprazole…..Bella would of been having the nasel Bordetella spray…poor girl, she has had a ruff time…. the Bordetella spray is dearer & doesn’t work aswell as the injection, I don’t get the Bordetella injection anymore, its a waste of money, its not 100% they can still catch Kennel cough, my vet asks, are you going away or boarding Patch, I said No, she said well you don’t need the Bordetella shot…

Shop around for an Endoscope the ladies from the F/B group “Dogs with inflammatory bowel disorder” were talking about this the other day, how some places are cheaper then other places… it was only $600 for the Endoscope that’s drugs everything & $80 each biopsies, Patch only had 2 biopsies, 1 from his stomach & 1 from his esophagus….after you start adding up cost of an Ultra scan, X-rays, blood test its cheaper to have Endoscope done….& you know exactly what’s wrong & then they can be treated properly for that illness…. Helicobacter can be caught from the mother when they are pups especially when pups come from puppy farms….Patch was a grump when he was feeling sick & had his bad acid reflux, you could just tell he wasn’t his happy self, some days were better then others..

Maybe after cutting down on fat in Bella diet & using the Pepcid (famotidine) she may feel better, but the Pepcid made Patch feel sick & he vomited up the tablet, I had to use Zantac & that helped him the best, stopped him feeling sick, normal firm poos & no wind at night….also routine, stick to a routine to help stop with the stress & lots of walkies… I’ve found when Patch is feeling un-well, I take him for a little walk to the shops or beach, he says hello to the other dogs & people & seems to come back home feeling better & walks straight in the kitchen & sits near his cupboard that has all his food in it….maybe the salt air makes him hungry……also read the fat% in treats as some treats are high in fat, its best to make your own little cookies, like Oatmeal-Apple Cookies they have cinnamon in them excellent for feeling nauseous……Applesause is good for diarrhea & so is cabbage juice they both contain pectin same as what’s in diarrhea meds…

[RebeccaRose]

Thank you Susan! Esp for the price estimates, that’s much lower than I was expecting. I have Care Credit, which is basically a credit card just for some medical, dental, eye care & veterinary purposes. I had to use that today & the bill was almost $200.

I think I agree about the Zantac, my only hesitation is a year or so ago when she first started that bile in the mornings thing the Vet prescribed liquid Zantac & it did not help her then. The only thing that helped was me making her feelings more spread out with that last feeding at bedtime.

I happen to have Zantac in tablet form here at home for myself but it is Maximum Strength 150 mg. would that be too much even halved? Also it’s generic not name brand.

I also for got to mention she’s burped a few times today. Just randomly & that’s not like her she’ll usually only burp a few seconds after eating or drinking. I thought it might be a combo of empty stomach and/or the two stomach meds she’s on.

Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions, it helps just to bounce ideas around. I’ve been feeling so stressed & worried sick over this. My daughter & I have reservations for out of town in 5 days. I don’t know what will come of that. It was our first little Mother/Daughter get away, my daughter is 10 & was so looking forward to it. It’s just for two nights. My husband & teen son would be here but I’m not sure I can leave if she is not completely well by then.

[Susan]

Hi, yes the Losec (omeprazole) could be making her feel like crap, it made Patch lethargic, not well in himself, & whinging after eating his food, sloppy poos & small her mouth, see if she has a weird smell coming out of her mouth…it takes about 12-24hrs for the Losec to leave her system so she will become & feel better in about 1 day.. with the Zantac that’s the right one the 150mg you would give 1/4 of a tablet 40-60mins before food every 12 hours, Patch weights around 36lb & I have to give 1/3 of the tablet, its hard to cut a third of a tablet especially when rounded, so sometimes its more like half a tablet so I cut off the corner..cutting 1/4 is easier just half the tablet then half again…
if you can buy some turkey breast mince (grounded) 99% fat free add 1 egg to 1 kilo turkey breast mince, mix thru, then make little small balls like a rissole put on a baking tray & bake for about 15mins then freeze some & take out as needed they thaw in about 15mins she will love them I eat them myself I use as treats as well,
Come to think about it Patch got worse after I had him on the Wellness Simple, the vet told me to stay away from kibbles that have probiotics in them, you can read the ingredients, they are all down the bottom dried Lactobacillus Casei fermentation product etc, it seemed to make Patches problem worse, then I had the Endoscope + biopsies done in December..He had the Helicobacter infection, I think once you stop the Losec she’ll be eating in a day & make some turkey breast rissole something she has never eaten.. oh another thing the Carafate seem to make Patch worse as well, so that made me think back then that he may not have a ulcer like I thought….

I’d stop everything & I bet in a day or 2 she be back to normal & happy self…just feed low fat foods, cause the more fat we eat the more stomach acid we make & maybe look up slippery elm powder, if the Zanatc doesn’t seem to help…a lot of ladies swear by it for their dogs with acid reflux…I bought some of the slippery elm powder & mixed up a paste with hot water & had about 1 teaspoon, it stopped me feeling sick, I use to give Patch some & he was sleeping thru the night then for some reason when he gets better I stopped using it… I add 1 teaspoon powder & add boiling water in a cup & keep stirring & add hot water until its like a slurry paste, it goes like jelly, I keep in the fridge, I’ve been using liquid Mylanta 3ml in a syringe whenever Patch is licking & swallowing & if he wakes thru the night grinding his teeth, he grinds his teeth when he has his acid, I might make up some slippery elm, I forgot about it…I hope Bella is feeling better soon.

[Anonymous]

You mentioned she recently received vaccinations, could this be a reaction? Vaccinosis?
Dogs under 20 pounds are the most likely to have adverse effects.
http://vitalanimal.com/waiver/

[RebeccaRose]

Thanks Susan & LM,

LM, the first time she got the lepto vaccine she had a reaction, within 10 minutes of leaving the vet office her face started to swell up. You can imagine the sight since she’s a shih tzu & has a smashed face.

They gave her a steroid shot & a shot of Benadryl & she was all better. So from then on she has gotten those two shots with her vaccines. Never had a reaction since. So I’m not sure if this could be related or not, except for the fact that she was very scared & stressed but either way… Could stress from the vet visit 9 days prior or stress or virus/bacteria from the groomers 4 days prior… be the cause?

She still won’t eat a thing. She got one big drink early this morning but refused since then so I squirted a syringe full in her mouth. I called the vet back. They still think I need to give it more time. They are not concerned with her not eating. They said it’s only been 24 hrs. It’s stressful when they won’t eat though.

She had diarrhea thus morning. I told the vet that & they wanted me to bring in a sample for testing & pick up an RX of Albon. So I did all that this morning. Fecal test was clear.

When I got home she greeted me at the door with tail wagging. Not as enthusiastically as she normally would but it was more than she had done thus far. I’m getting the pedialyte today. I just wish she would eat.

[Anonymous]

I’m not there, I can’t see your dog….and only a vet can diagnose.
Regarding my dogs, I have a 72 hour rule, if they are sick, refuse to eat, appear to be in discomfort and don’t show any signs of improvement, I take them to the 24 hour emergency veterinary clinic. Sure, it costs a few bucks, but they will run tests and I’ll be in and out of there within a couple of hours with a diagnosis and treatment regimen in place.
Stuff happens, they have payment plans.
I have owned dogs for over 30 years, I am an RN.

[RebeccaRose]

Well the only thing she has not had yet is the blood work. Maybe I should have insisted on that while I was there. I spoke with the Vet herself while I was there today dropping off the “sample” & picking up the Albon, & she said we could do blood work next but it’s been her experience that it usually comes up normal in these cases & what the dog needs is time. Maybe I’m just expecting too much, I don’t know.

[Dori]

I’d be more concerned that she’s not drinking than I would that she’s not eating. Often just like us, if they’re not feeling well or have gastro upset they will know enough to fast themselves and, in my opinion, that’s a good thing. Right now it’s more important to get liquids into her.

If she greeted you at the door today tail wagging even just a little or even just the fact that she greeted you at all means that she’s feeling a little better. When she does start to eat, please just give her very small meals every few hours for a few days. You can add a little bit of canned pumpkin (not pie filling) into each of other very small meals.

As to the original problem or what started this particular episode: It could very well be that the vaccines upset her system but I doubt that the stress of going to the groomer would have her vomiting and with diarrhea so long after her grooming. And, her problems started a long time ago. As others may have mentioned, I believe she has a food intolerance/sensitivity. You need to get to the route of what ingredient in the food you are feeding is bothering her. I don’t believe switching her to a low fat diet is going to be a “cure all”. This really does sound like food intolerance issues to me and until you figure out what she is “allergic” to this is going to continue to happen. If you’re going to keep her on kibble or canned try a limited ingredient food with a protein that you have never fed her before. See how she does on that. If you’ve been feeding chicken, or beef or whatever protein, just avoid them for a while. Make sure that on the ingredient list there is no chicken or turkey fat or any beef or whatever else you’ve been feeding her. Sometimes because a food says it’s Venison on the package doesn’t mean that there aren’t any other animal proteins in the food. It’s a difficult task finding what food intolerances a dog has but it is well worth it in the end for your dog most especially but also for yourself.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by Dori.

[Susan]

Hi, the only thing they will find out thru blood work is if she has Pancreatitis, with Pancreatitis they are in a lot of pain, right side, under rib cage & they either lie with their front 2 legs stretched out & their bum in the air or sit in the praying position, if you touch around her Pancreatitis/stomach area they normally flinch & don’t like you touching that area, they vomit up their food, some dogs need to be put on a drip because of the vomiting & vomiting.. There’s no blood test for the stomach acid reflux…..

Ask your vet what would be the best test to do where we’ll get results, some vets don’t have to Endoscope equipment, so they don’t recommend doing it cause you’ll need to see another vet so they do all the other test first.. I went down the same road, started with medications & Patch seem like he was getting better then he started to vomit up his food, eat grass some mornings when he first woke up, burping after eating..then we’d have a few good days, so I thought, Oh he’s getting better…after trying medications things didn’t improve so I asked for fecal test, it came back no parasites…then I asked for CBC & A cpL test (Pancreatitis test) $230 results came back all good… months went by then Patch was ill again pain right side all the symptoms for Pancreatitis so this time I asked for an Ultra Scan $450 came back all good..we were back & forth to vets, I tried probiotic, which now Ive been told to stop & stop any foods with prebiotics (Beet pulp) I tried new diets, I lowered the fat% cause of his burping & acid reflux, I lowered the protein, it seemed to help..
I tried everything that people recommended…then I thought that’s it. I was sick of watching Patch suffer, in the beginning he’d just have 1 off day then after 1 & 1/2 year & after I tried a new diet Patch got worse, waking up burping up acid into his throat & burnt his throat, he couldn’t swallow, he was put on more meds Patches vet Sue wasn’t in so I got Johnathon the vet that loves steroids & Royal Canine vet diets Patches first vet at the Small Animal Hospital..Johnathon prescribed Prednisone Carafate & Losec for 3 weeks..I never gave the Prednisone cause I thought he has bad acid reflux already & prednisone is known to cause acid reflux with some people & animals…
I made a deal with myself if Patch isn’t better by his birthday 20/11/ 2014
I’m putting him to sleep, his birthday was the day I rescued him 20/10/2012

I had him for 2 years & we were always at the vet in the end Sue the vet would just ring me for free & ask hows Patch been doing, if I needed more meds she leave me a script & I’d just get Patches meds from my chemist real cheap cheaper then the vet charged….the only problem was Sue always wanted to open him up & do biopsies saying “its IBD the only way you’ll know is if we open him & do biopsies,” so I joined a IBD group & started asking question & the ladies said you don’t need to open Patch up just have the Endoscope & biopsies done & you will get some answers, so last December I went to my vet & booked Patch in with the best vet there Simon, Patch was diagnosed with Lymphocytic Gastritis & inflammation of the stomach cause the Helicobacter was left for so long vets think he has had the Helicobacter from a pup & caught it from his mom, Oh well he’s getting the treatment final after 6 years cause hes 6 years old now..

I did everything I could think to do, except one test, a Endoscope + biopsies that Johnathon Patches first vet suggested I do in the beginning but I changed vets to Sue & we went around & around in a circle, she just would ask “How’s Patches poo’s” I’d say really good, then she’d say “alright keep him on what your feeding him” I’d say BUT

It’s not that easy, LM just go to a 24hr vet & getting results there & then, the vet would just do a in house blood test, if the tests come back all good the vet normally just sends you home with some meds & a vet diet food probably the Hills I/d Low Fat restore & that’s it, you then have to go to your regular vet for a follow up..

I’m not saying Bella has the Helicobacter or stomach ulcers the 2 normally come together, but you will save money in the long run, going straight to the top & have an Endoscope + Biopsies & you will get results from the Biopsies & you’ll have a answer to all Bellas health problems & its sooooooooo stressful, Patch has become the son I lost years ago he’s my little boy & when he feels well & he’s not feeling sick, he’s a little monster, barks at me to get off the computer & take him for his 9.30 walk, runs up to any dog to say hello, gets bashed up sometimes, some little dogs bite or a cat karate chops him over the head, he just walks off wagging his tail, people say how healthy he looks shinny coat, you’d never know he has IBD…

[Anonymous]

I was just sharing my experience, I have actually had better luck as far as getting an accurate diagnosis for my dogs at the 24 hour emergency veterinary clinic located 10 minutes from my home (in comparison to going to the regular vet).
I have only had to use them a handful of times over the years. The bill is a tough pill to swallow…..but what are you going to do on a Sunday afternoon when you have an emergency?
Sometimes the administering of subq fluids can make a world of difference in a dog that is sick and nauseous. I have found that a fresh pair of eyes assessing the situation is helpful too.
Again, only a vet that has examined your pet can make a diagnosis.

[RebeccaRose]

We don’t have a 24 hr clinic. There are 3 vet practices in the town next to me. One is the vet we go to. They all have a system where if it’s after hours/weekends you can call a different number and essentially you are paging one of the vets and they will meet you at the office. My vet office has already told me they can’t do ultrasounds they refer out to one of the other vets for that and probably the bigger stuff too.

I think I will be returning to the vet tomorrow. If for nothing else than IV fluids. I squirted some chicken broth down her with a syringe this morning. So far, still no eating. The last time she ate a meal that stayed down was Thursday night about 10:30 pm. Friday morning is when it all started. She did eat her Friday morning meal at 6:45 am, but when I got home about 2 hrs later it looked like she’d thrown it all up. So I’m not sure if the Friday morning meal counts. If not then it’s been 60 hrs since she ate anything. No vomiting since Friday but diarrhea continued last night and this morning. Small amounts, dime size to quarter size.

This is definitely the worst sickness she’s ever had. All the other times she’s had her random vomiting spells or diarrhea episodes she did NOT lose her appetite, she kept right on eating and playing and acting fine. This time it’s not like that. Last December when she started refusing her Wellness food she was not sick, she just didn’t like that food anymore, I even bought a new bag to be sure it wasn’t a bad batch, but as soon as I bought the 4Health and started mixing it in to slowly transition her over she was eating again.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by RebeccaRose.

[Anonymous]

What area are you in? There has to be an emergency veterinary clinic within a 20 mile radius, they may not be affiliated with your vet.
I am in the Boston area, we have several places.

PS: If you call your local police dept. non-emergency number, I bet they could tell you where the closest emergency veterinary clinic is.

[RebeccaRose]

Also could you guys recommend a limited ingredient dog food? I’m going to look on this site but thought I’d put the question out there. I need something that is either sold at Petco or Pet Supplies Plus. Those are the only two stores near me.

[DogFoodie]

I’d probably request blood work, also. I’d be curious to know what her liver levels are currently. Do your best to keep her hydrated in the meantime. Bone broth would be great for her right now, but it takes a long time to make it. Pedialyte would be helpful, too.

I’m fortunate to have an outstanding large university veterinary clinic nearby. I’d choose that route, if needed. They have 24 hour emergency services. Do you have something like that nearby?

I have a dog with food intolerance issues and have a hard time finding foods for him. Those that work best for us are Nature’s Variety Instinct LID, Addiction Viva La Venison, Canidae Pure Sky (Diamond, yuk… but it works great), FirstMate Chicken & Blueberries, Acana Duck & Bartlett Pear, Canine Caviar and The Honest Kitchen Thrive. Do you think you might be able to interest her in a little bit of Wellness Core Reduced Fat canned food or THK Zeal?

I’m really sorry you and your girl are going through this.

[Anonymous]

All these food/diet ideas are great, for when she is stable…..

She may be dehydrated? No way will she be able to tolerate fluid being forced down her throat. If it was my dog and she had the symptoms you described I would get her help now.

[RebeccaRose]

LM, I looked them up. It seems the bigger of the three does off “24 hr” services, but it says to call a different number and speak to one of our on call staff. Perhaps that is the same as what you mean. I’m in TN. There is an Animal Hospital about an hour away. But even their website says Closed for today & I did not see the words 24hr anywhere.

DogFoodie, I am going to request the blood work as well. If this doesn’t resolve soon I would expect the next level of care would have to be something like an endoscope.

[crazy4cats]

I agree, LM, there are some excellent emergency pet hospitals. They are expensive, but totally worth it in my opinion. In the long run, I would have saved at least $1000 on one of my cats if I wouldn’t have messed around going to two or three different value vets before going to the best that ultimately saved my cat’s life. I feel for you, Rebecca. Having a sick pet is so stressful when you don’t know the cause. I sure am hoping for the best. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Well, I would consider a dog not being able to eat, vomiting and diarrhea for 3 days a medical emergency and proceed accordingly.
Again, I am not there, I am not a vet, and maybe the situation isn’t as dire as you describe, I hope.

[RebeccaRose]

LM, I so appreciate all your posts. Your advice is at the front of my mind. At this time I think we are ok. Her skin bounces back good, her eyes are nice & moist, her gums mouth and tongue are all moist. And I have started doing chicken broth every half hour this morning.

I am sending my husband out to get the pedialyte. The problem was finding one plain & not flavored. I read on another thread that sometimes pet stores sell an electrolyte packet that you mix with water for dogs. I might tell him to look for that.

I have read on this site and others that gently squirting fluids with an empty syringe is acceptable as long as you are gentle & squirt towards the teeth and not the back of the throat.

Please don’t think I am not hearing your concern! I am taking everything you all have said into consideration. Thanks everyone so much!

[Anonymous]

Thanks, I am sometimes afraid that I am annoying people. Your dog reminds me of a similar situation I had with a poodle mix years ago, the vet thought she got into something. My neighbor at the time was using rat poison to eradicate the mice in her home.
Anyway, the vet wanted to run a GI series, this test and that test. I went to another vet instead (the same day) who gave the dog subq fluids and she perked right up!
So, consider asking your vet if that would help, if she isn’t better by tomorrow. It seems to relieve the nausea and they start eating.

[RebeccaRose]

I think you are so right LM. I will admit that my vet seemed to push the idea that she got into something also even though I adamantly denied it. After she mentioned yet again something like this, to be specific she said she might have eaten a dead mouse outside… I over explained how go out with her for every trip & she’s watched closely through out the house. If only she knew how ludicrous that sounds to me. There is no way that is a possibility.

Tomorrow is my deadline. I will be going back & asking for blood work & getting IV fluids. Depending on what that shows I’m asking for a referral for the larger vet clinic where she had already told me they send patients for things they are not equipped to do. And I will be taking her X-rays with me.

I think the biggest thing speaking to me right now is you saying sometimes a pair of fresh eyes is all it takes to turn it around.

[Anonymous]

The vet that helped in my situation just did the subq fluids, not IV, it’s easy and not expensive….she said take her home and see if it helps. So, I never did any additional testing at that time. The subq fluids not only hydrates the dog and relieves the nausea but it also flushes out the toxins.
I was amazed at the effect……have it done in the morning and if she is not better by the afternoon, go along with the blood work. It won’t show poisoning anyway, that would be a specific test. It will show her kidney function and liver function tests, if she is sick they will be a little off anyway.
Here is what it looks like, but of course have the vet do it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxAAyISHRk8
If your vet advises differently, ignore me.

[RebeccaRose]

I thought that’s what subq fluids meant. Oh ok!

[DogFoodie]

How’s your pup today, RebeccaRose?

[RebeccaRose]

Well everyone she started eating some last night. I was shocked actually…

I had been offering her bits of several different things throughout the day to see if anything enticed her. I offered her 4Health, Wellness, the Prescription ID, boiled chicken, etc (not all at the same time mind you)… The strange thing is that the dog food that she’s decided to eat is the Wellness that she stopped eating in December. I’m not sure if that food would be old since it’s sat there so long. Of course it is sealed in a bag but I don’t know.

Also, you are supposed to change them over slowly to a different dog food. Would this be considered new though? How does that work when they’ve had it before but not for a couple months. That in & of itself might cause tummy upset right?

So this morning I was so nervous I didn’t know which dog food to offer and how much, so I settled on the Wellness and gave her almost her full usual serving. At first she went to it and gobbled it up. I went about my business so as not to crowd her but stayed close, then I heard her get a big drink of water then silence. So I came over to see and she still had quite a bit of food in the bowl but was just sitting there (gave her a little less than a 1/4 cup, 1/4 is her usual serving).

So I sat next to her on the floor and she would get a kibble eat it then sit for another minute. This was reminding me of how she would do this back in December when she started refusing the Wellness. But my husband came through the kitchen about that time on his way to work & just like back then she started gobbling up her food again. As soon as he left she just had a few more kibble left but went back to slowly eating them one at a time.

So should I keep her on the a Wellness??? Why does she eat good at first then seem to not want it any more?? I’m afraid to get back into those days on Wellness where either it took FOREVER! for her to finish one meal or outright refuse it all together.

My friend who does free feeding with her dogs used to say just leave it out she’ll eat when she’s hungry. But that is not my lifestyle. I like having a schedule… For meals, for poops, everything. I don’t want to free feed. Then there’s also her being susceptible to throwing up bile if she keeps an empty tummy too long.

I’m just not sure what to do. Do you girls think keeping her on a Zantac would help?

Today was also the first day with no cerenia the nausea vomiting med she was on. So far so good. No throwing up but she has not pooped yet so I don’t know if she’s still having the diarrhea or not.

[Susan]

Hi Rebecca did you stop the Carafate & Losec?? & did you start her on Zantac & now she is eating?? if that’s the case keep given her the 1/4 of Zantac for about 2 weeks & see how she does.. sounds like Bella has acid reflux, may also have ulcers from being a stressed ….try to feed lower fat food Wellness has their “Simple” range limited ingredients, the Duck & Oatmeal & Lamb & Oatmeal digests easy cause I did my kibble test… I get about 2 kibbles I put in a glass of water wait about 1 min, I take out 1 kibble, I get 2 teaspoons & put 1 kibble inbetween the two teaspoons & a good kibble should crush easy but a hard kibble wont crush, I try to stay away from real hard kibbles, I found kibbles with potatoes are harder. Sounds like the Zantac is working for now……
Just do what you are doing cause something is working, you may be able to still go away with your daughter, especially if she eats when your husband is in the room… he can stay home & baby sit Bella lol

[RebeccaRose]

No Susan I did not stop those meds. You do mean the Sucralfate & Omeprazole right? I wanted to give them a couple days at least to see if they were going to work. I think today was the last day on the Omeprazole though, I’ll have to call the vet to be sure but I’m almost certain she said to do it thru Sunday. But I do not remember how long she said to do the Sucralfate. Again I’m going to call in the morning & ask.

But I did buy some more Zantac other than what I have here at home… what I had was the maximum strength 150mg and there exists a regular strength that is just 75mg. Because I did some research online & from what I read they only recommend up to 1mg per pound. And my shih Tzu only weighs 15 lbs. So I needed something I could half or quarter or cut into thirds that could get that mg down to around 15. The 150mg would still be 37.5 mg quartered. I felt that was too much.

So while I’m on the phone with them tomorrow I’m going to ask about maybe doing a short term (a month or two or three) on the zantac & what she thinks about that & if so what dosage just to be sure.

She ate pretty good today. Still not 100% herself but she is doing much better. She has not pooped at all today. So now we’ve went from diarrhea to nothing at all.

I’m glad you mentioned the Wellness Simple because I had been looking at that too & I think I will pick up a bag and work it in. I really want the small bites they make but I bet my Petco won’t have it. Is it ok to put some large size kibble in a Ziploc bag and use like a rubber mallet to break it into smaller pieces to make it easier for little mouths to eat?

[Susan]

Yes, I did that today at lunch time, I put some kibble in a Ziploc bag & bashed with rolling pin, lol another lady does it on the F/B IBD group for her little dog, that way you know if they just swallow the kibbles like Patch does, you have partly digested the kibble for them…..I hope she starts improving, its awful when you see they are not happy & you know something is wrong….

[RebeccaRose]

Well it’s been a while since I posted. Things are what I would call Stable. But she is still not back to pre sickness state. She has had a couple episodes of late night vomiting and it can be very challenging to get her to eat.

I stuck with the Wellness rather than trying to go back to the 4Health. The meds she is on is the Albon and Sucralfate. She was also taking the omeprazole but I switched that to Zantac just this morning. I am nervous about that. She has 2 more days on the meds besides the Zantac I might keep her on that.

I’ve been doing loads of research. Seems like low fat is the best way to go for her. In the past 3 days she has vomited 2x in the wee morning hrs in her crate. It was not just bile it had partially digested food in it.

Yesterday I went to Petco and bought a bag of Wellness Complete Health Healthy Weight. It’s fat is 6% min and 10% max. Fiber is 6% max. Protein is 21%.

I am mixing it in with the regular Wellness at a 1/4 to 3/4 ratio. She seemed to really like it, she picked it out of the regular Wellness. But when the new was gone she went back to just sitting there refusing to eat.

This morning was one of the 2 episodes she had vomited in her crate. It had to be after 3:00 am because I checked on her at that time and there was no vomit. She was fed at 10:00 pm but it took her 45 minutes to finish. Keep in mind this is only a 1/4 cup of food so not a huge amount. So anyway my point was she vomited after the first try on the new Wellness (albeit 5 or more hrs later) and it could have just been a coincidence. Also, is it normal to still see food in the vomit that many hrs later, it was ground up no solid pieces.

But I’m praying it’s not the new food. As the day unfolds today I’m sure I will find out. I was hoping the low fat food would be the key to settling her stomach and helping us all get back to normal but I don’t know if she will even make it through the transition process of one dog food to another.

My questions are… If the Wellness Healthy Weight does not work out, what else can I try that is low fat. I’m assuming low fat is what she needs for whatever stomach issues she has.

Next, when is the best time day or night to give this Zantac. It has occurred to me that some meds work better with or w/o food, but also if the wee hours of the night and day are when she is vomiting (at this point anyway), would bedtime be the best time? If so it won’t exactly be on an empty tummy because of that 10:00 pm feeding. I just am lost on how to help her. I have some ideas but don’t know how to implement them.

[RebeccaRose]

She is starting to refuse the new Wellness Healthy Weight now. I honestly can’t tell if it’s illness or picky eating… But I suspect the latter. Because she is back to her old self in all other ways… Playing and pooping.

I really need some recommendations on a low fat commercial kibble. I don’t mind trying canned but do not want to do that exclusively.

This morning the only way I could get her to eat was to spoon one plastic spoonful of chicken broth over the kibble. When I did that she ate it right up. It was broth from a can… Low sodium. I know people say not to give them commercial chicken broth only homemade but I never buy chicken with bones so this would be challenging for me. I’ve only done the broth a few times it is not a regular thing.

The deal is, a lot of people say of a picky eater… Just take the food up & they’ll eat later. Well I can’t do that with her because she will get sick & start throwing up. And then it starts a vicious cycle of not wanting to eat because of nausea & the longer she goes without eating the sicker she gets.

I’m going to abandon Wellness, she just doesn’t seem to like them anymore. I don’t know where to look next though. I looked at Halo, but their healthy weight food for small dogs had a min of 12% fat…. That’s not low fat.

[Anonymous]

I would consider making an appointment with a homeopathic veterinarian or an animal nutritionist. Let a professional guide you.
A veterinarian that is board certified in small animal clinical nutrition, and can provide healthy pet and disease-specific homemade diet formulations
It may prove to be cost effective in the long run.

[DogFoodie]

Hi RebeccaRose,

I would have no problem at all with the low sodium canned chicken stock! If you are so inclined, you could whip up a bunch of bone broth in the Crock-Pot. It takes a minimum of 24 hours, but it’s so nutritious and delicious. My dogs love it!

My Cavalier is by no means picky and she’s a very good eater. I rotate her foods constantly so she’s eaten lots of different foods, but she’s eating Fromm Four Star right now and she literally goes crazy for it at meal time! The Fromm Four Star Whitefish and Potato has 12% fat. Have you ever tried Fromm?

[RebeccaRose]

Hi, LM, I can’t imagine there would be a homeopathic vet any where near me. I did a search on theavh.org & it turned up zero for my State. I did just a general search with my towns name & homeopathic vet & it wasn’t much help. I know if I ask any of the Vet’s near me they’ll just recommend the Hill’s Precription Diets which is what they sell… We had a Pom that lived almost 13 yrs on the W/D Precription dry food. She wasn’t picky. But the price was very difficult for us to swallow all those yrs.

DogFoodie, how are you able to transition from different foods without tummy upset? I have to change her foods over slowly or she’ll either vomit or have diarrhea. I’m barely to the 50/50 ratio right now & she’s already refusing to eat it. She started out like she liked it though, picking out the new over the old.

I have never tried Fromm, I’d would have to order that online as they don’t have it near me.

So do you think I should continue on with the Wellness Healthy Weight with a spoonful of broth as long as she’ll eat it like that?

For dogs that don’t need to lose weight how do you keep them from losing weight when they need to be on a low fat food? I don’t think she’ll eat more than a 1/4 cup 3x a day even with the broth.

[Anonymous]

Many homeopathic veterinarians do phone consults. Example:

“Distance is no impediment to working homeopathically. If you don’t have a homeopathic vet near you, you can enroll as a long distance client and work via telephone appointments with Dr. Falconer. The prerequisite for this is knowing your animal very well, and being able to convey symptom information in words”. http://vitalanimal.com/contact/

And, I think your veterinarian could refer you to a nutritionist, if you requested such.

Again, these are just treatment options, maybe someone else reading this will find the information helpful.
Peace

[Susan]

Hi Rebecca I haven’t read thru the post has anyone suggested the Honest Kitchen ZEAL the fat is 8.50% http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/dog-food/zeal scroll down a bit & you will see the Fat % Fiber % etc
a few dogs with Pancreatitis are on the Zeal & doing really well, if your on yahoo join a group called “dogpancreatitis” the lady that runs it Ann can help with low fat diets, I know Bella hasn’t got Pancreatitis but sometimes these groups are good for diets, there’s also Canine Cavier Special needs the fat is 9% min so its probably 11% max in fat so not really low…there’s also the “California Natural’ limited ingredient the Brown rice Lamb Meal weight management the fat is 7%min, the fiber is 3% the fiber isn’t high either like some weight management kibbles, their fiber is really high & you will need to feed more, but with the California Natural weight management just feed like you’d normally give & weigh Bella every 2 weeks & just see if Bellas weight is the same or dropping… thats what I do, I weight Patch weekly at Pet Barn.. California Natural also has the Nutrient Analysis & shows max % on everything which is really good.. also do you give one kibble for breakfast then a different kibble for dinner?? that’s what I do, I ask which one do you want & Patch picks what food he wants to eat also with the tin wet foods the fat has to be 2% & under, if it says 5% fat on the wet tin food that’s around 22% fat if it were a kibble…
http://www.californianaturalpet.com/products/1131

[E W]

I hope that by now your toy breed is doing a lot better. Ever hear of liver shunt???? Just wondering if your vet has mentioned it yet but it was once thought to affect mostly toys breeds but now has been found in several breeds large and small. These dogs can be managed through diet or sometimes surgery but it’s no picnic. I don’t want you to panic….but more dog lovers should be aware of this condition. There is a lot of good info available about it now. I am not diagnosing your dog just if this were my dog and if this illness has continued all this time I would want an answer and a solution before you end up spending thousands at the vet because it adds up quickly. I currently have a pug that has a liver shunt she had an ameroid constrictor placed in Nov of 2014 we are still struggling with her and they suspect a collateral shunt has developed so my picnic continues but she is such a sweet soul that we continue to push on to better be able to help her feel as good as possible and live a full life.

[Author]

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