[Suburban Gal]

My mom’s former co-worker and friend, Sharon, has several Shih Tzus. She also does Shih Tzu rescue.

We just found out that Sharon no longer vaccinates her dogs. While she cites age as a reason why (all of her dogs are seniors), that’s only part of it. She says there’s a whole new train of thought about over vaccinating pets and that science shows that most vaccines are good for life or at least 7 years from the time they’re given. She told me about Dr. Schultz of the UW-Madison veterinary school and says he has quite a following. In addition to not vaccinating, she doesn’t give heartworm prevention nor does she do flea and tick prevention either. She says she titers when she can.

Honestly, none of my pets have ever had any problems from vaccinations. While any animal could have an adverse reaction to any vaccine, the probability is small according to many veterinarians.

I also can’t imagine not giving flea and tick prevention. We tried cutting corners once to save some money by not giving that during the winter months and we still had an infestation of fleas which also spread to my uncle’s home when we took the pets to visit him shortly after we stopped giving flea and tick prevention. Never again. My pets get it continuously year round. And I can’t imagine not giving anything to prevent heartworm. That’s not only expensive to treat, but fatal as well.

While I think highly of Sharon and applaud her for engaging in her breed’s rescue efforts, I don’t support her decision to stop vaccinating altogether and titer when she can. Just because someone says you shouldn’t vaccinate doesn’t mean you should stop. Vaccinations are given for a reason and some are required, like rabies, because it’s not only for the greater good of you, as some things are transmissible to owners, and your pet but it’s good for the greater whole of society as well.

This is no different from those who say they’re not going to vaccinate their children.

I find it all very bizarre.

Does anyone here know what I’m talking about? Do you agree? Are pets over vaccinated? Did you stop vaccinating?

[Susan]

Hi Suburban Gal, I too dont believe in Vaccinating after 2years old, Heartworming or Flea products,
I rescued Patch about 19months ago, when a dog is rescued from a pound, we are given 1 worm tablet or 2 depends on their weight, 1 flea tablet Comfortis which I never used & the next day the rescue dog goes straight to vets for their health check then is desexed & vaccinated, the next day Patch was unwell & was crying after being desexed & vaccinated, so I rung the rescue vet & they said bring him in, they just gave me some pain killers for him & said he must be in pain from being desexed as he was 4 years old & the vet said that his shaft was all bruised around his stitches…..Patch seemed OK the next day but still had hive like lumps all over his body… 1 year forward Patch was due for Vaccination, I took him to his vets & he had the 3 yearly Vaccinations, vet never did his Kennel cough shot as I dont boarded him anywhere, we went home then that night Patch seemed unwell & was real sleepy, so I just let him sleep the next morning Patch was doing what he had done 1 year before when I had just rescued him crying & whinging, he wouldnt eat his breakfast, which is a first for him, so I just let him sleep, I googled about vaccinations & side effects & it looked like he was ill from being vaccinated, I rung his vet she just said keep an eye on him & she wrote in his file reaction when vaccinated, she said that some dogs that have Immune Problems cant be vaccinated…..I dont Heartworm either as 1 vet said the area I live, in his 30years he has never seen a dog have heartworm come from that area & he saw no need as its caught from mosquotos the vet said if I live out the west more 1/2hour away he would recommend he was heartwormed but Patch being an indoor dog there’s no need….when I’d worm Patch he was waking up about 2am wanting to go outside & eat grass then a couple of hours later he’d have diarrhea, no worms were ever in his poos after being wormed, so vet changed Patch to the Milbemax all wormer & I was to only worm him every 6 months instead of every 3 months, the Milbemax didnt have any side effects like the Propanal…. the flea products, Ive only used the Frontline spot on twice with no problems then I changed from Frontline to Advantage spot on as I give my cat the Advantage, the next day after appling the Advantage the day before my daughter came around & said whats wrong with Patches head his left side & left ear was all swollen, his lips were red & swollen & he had hive like lumps all over his body again, like when he was first vaccinated, I rung his vet she said just keep an eye on him as it was nilly 20hrs since I applied the Advantage & they have their worst reaction within 24hrs of apyling, she said that the frontline only penetrates the first layer of skin but the Advantage penetrates thru their skin into their blood, so I wont be using Advantage again.. So after all of these things that have happened with Patch Im not re-vacinating him in 3 years as he’ll be 8years old & I see no need as I think dogs should only be vaccinated the first 2 years of their lives but after 2 years I’d say that they have the antibodies needed to fight any diseases, with the Heartworm I see no need if you have an indoor dog & you dont live in a mosqitoes infessed area, with fleaing Im too scared to try the new Comfortis as its a tablet & may cause stomach problems. I live Australia & we dont have rabies thank-God..
I’d say your friend Sharon has seen alot of these reactions being into rescue especially with older dogs, I think what she’s doing is OK..alot of these rescued older dogs have a past & their health isnt always good…Your friend is doing a really good job for rescueing these oldies & she’s right if they get adopted & the new owners want them vaccinated they can do it, but I see no need, we are not vaccinated every year, so why over vaccinate animals.. Sorry for the book, but I had to explain why Im against Vaccinations after the animals are 2 years old…..

[Cyndi]

I’m never vaccinating my dog either. After all the horror stories I’ve heard and read about. We have to do rabies vaccs here, it’s the law, but other than that, not doing anything else. I use all natural stuff for fleas, but I do use Ivermectin (sp?) for heartworm once every 45 days during mosquito season because they are bad here.

We were just having this discussion on the review side and there’s quite a few people on here that don’t do any vaccinating except for puppy shots…

All I can say is, inform yourself, do research and read, read, read. There are a ton of articles out there proving dogs don’t need vaccines every year or really ever, after their first puppy shots.

[Mom2Cavs]

I used to vaccinate when I went to my regular vet, who btw loves to vaccinate and give steroid shots like crazy. Stella (who is at the bridge now) and my cat Princess definitely had vaccine reactions and this particular vet would just give a steroid shot to help, and then vaccinate the next year. I would even bring up the reactions and he would still insist. Can’t believe I went along with this then, but I was ignorant about vaccinations and flea meds at that time. After a very bad experience at this particular vet and learning a lot more, I finally switched to my holistic vet who does titers, except for Rabies because it is required by law. I’ve been titering now for 3 years and give the Rabies vaccine every 3 years. I do natural flea meds, but I do heartworm (use Tri Heart Plus) around every 35-40 days because we have bad mosquitos here in Ohio. Everyone is doing fine. I will continue to do this with any pet I have from now on.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by Mom2Cavs.

[Cyndi]

Jan, I didn’t know you were in Ohio too? Atleast I don’t think I did, lol! Where about? I’m in northeast Ohio, near Cleveland.

[Mom2Cavs]

Cyndi, I’m in Cincy. I didn’t know you were from here, either!

[Cyndi]

That’s cool! Actually, after the last week of this weather, I feel like I live in the tropics. This heat and humidity doesn’t agree with me, lol!

How’s your new guy doing? For the life of me, I can’t remember his name.

*sorry to hijack this thread, lol!

[Mom2Cavs]

I agree with the heat, but I do love Summer best. Rupert is doing fine, thanks for asking. He’s such a doll! We love him to pieces, especially my husband! Lucy, my mix, is not doing so well, though. I don’t know if you heard she has a rare skin cancer. My daughter, who is very bonded with her, came home from the Summer Camp she’s working at to visit one last time. She didn’t want to be present when she does go to the Bridge. We will be putting her to sleep on Wed. unless something else happens in the mean time. It will be sad around here for awhile, but all my other animals do keep me busy.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by Mom2Cavs.

[Cyndi]

Awwww, I am so very sorry to hear that! I didn’t know. I’ll keep you guys in my thoughts and prayers. I know all too well how hard it is to do that. & yes, it does help to have other animals that need you to keep you occupied.

Glad Rupert is doing well. 🙂

[DogFoodie]

Oh Jan, I’m so sorry to hear about Lucy. You’re in my prayers. Such a painful decision to have to make.

I definitely have some opinions on the vaccines and will respond to that when I have a bit more time. Long story short, my beautiful Golden boy, Sam, suffered vaccinosis as a result of core puppy vaccines. I’ve been titering for distemper and parvo since, and he still presents with immunity. I believe that his exposure lead to ongoing health / dietary issues, which I’ve just begun to get some control over.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Jan I’m sorry to hear about Lucy. It’s so hard losing them. 🙁

[neezerfan]

I do titers on my dogs yearly, I will revaccinate if it becomes necessary. I use the heartworm life cycle as a guide, use heartworm pills when the temp stays high enough. They get tested every year. I say if humans got heartworm I would do the same thing for myself.

[Mom2Cavs]

Thanks to everyone and their sentiments toward Lucy. She will definitely be missed, that’s for sure. It’s always hard when one of the family passes.

[InkedMarie]

Jan, I’m so sorry about Lucy. I’ll be thinking about all of you.

Regarding vaccines, I follow dr Jean Dodds protocol for dogs that come to me as young puppies, with titering. For rescues, since mine are usually seniors who get vaccinated when they hit rescue, they just get rabies, no more vaccines.

[Nancy C]

Just for the record, my 10 yr old Golden hs been titered since age 2 when she finished the mandatory vaccinations. Every single year the blood work has come out GREAT. The breeder of my first golden who lived over 15 yrs told me to TITER and not vaccinate. She was always healthy. She also told me to ONLY give heart work meds during May through September, which I did. I also did that with my present 10 year old Golden and 1 year ago my vet chewed me out, saying she could get heartworms and I should do it ALL THE TIME. IT scared me so badly I started full time. HOWEVER, I am researching a protocol that is not unsafe and is holistic which I will share later. When I took my two dogs in back in May for annual check ups the vet gave me a pamphlet on LEPTO VIRUS. NOW she wants to vaccinate BOTH DOGS for that virus. I have been studying it and from what I can tell there are several strains of it and not all are covered by the vaccine, plus getting the vaccing CAN CAUSE PROBLEMS… in other words, like ALMOST ALL VACCINES it is not risk free. The vet office called me yesterday to SCHEDULE THE 1st LEPTO SHOT (they come in twos apparently) and I told her I was not ready to commit.
I am sharing this because the vets are tied in to BIG PHARMA, sorry, but they are. It is part of their bread and butter. The Pharmaceutical Industry is HUGE and they are in bed with the FDA. Don’t be fooled that the FDA is looking after you. NOPE. They look after themselves. BIG HUGE MONEY. At the 9/11 tragedy in NYC of all industries in the USA, BIG PHARMA did the best economically. I studied for 6 yrs with one of the FOUNDERS of the AMERICAN HOLisTIC MEDICAL ASSOCIATION and learned more than I could absorb about the Pharmaceuticals. Marcia Angel MD writes a wonderful book, THE TRUTH ABOUT THE DRUG COMPANIES; WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW AND WHAT YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT. She was the EDITOR IN CHIEF of the NEw Engl Jour of Medicine for 20 years and explains HOW the Pharmas control the journals now. PRESSURE. And the clinical trials — watch out. Enough on that but suffice it to say that you DO need to keep your eyes open and go HOLISTIC when you can. Last comment: My daughter is a doctor at Stanford Medical Center and I will tell you that MEdical People are marinated in Pharma Talk. IT’s all they have: Meds and Surgeries (Procedures)…. and I am suggesting that mainstream vets are pretty much prey to them too.
That’s it for me. Good luck.

[Suburban Gal]

The evidence is strong that immunity persists for years or for life from vaccines early in life, and the risk of chronic illness is significantly increased with vaccine repetition. So, if someone runs a titer test in place of vaccinating Spot, and Spot’s titer is low, perhaps 6-8 years after his last vaccine, the recommendation is likely to be “Spot needs another round of vaccines to keep him safe.” I’d like to show that this is a wrong line of thinking that will get a lot of animals unnecessarily vaccinated, and therefore, at greater risk for developing chronic disease.

Titer testing only measures one fraction of the entire immune response, the antibodies produced against a particular organism. While their presence indicates protection, there’s no reason for the immune system to keep producing antibodies against an invader forever, so, over time, these levels of antibody will wane. The fight is finished, there’s no more invader showing up, so there’s no need to keep a titer high.

What isn’t measured by the titer test is any part of the cell-mediated immunity, especially the memory cells. So, while antibody levels will wane over time, these long-lived memory cells lie quietly in the recesses of the immune system, awaiting further signals that the invader is back. It’s these cells that are responsible for the duration of immunity that can’t be measured by a titer test.

That said, I think titering is a mistake.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by Suburban Gal.

[Suburban Gal]

I feel the need to point out that, for a vaccine, the vet charges a far lower price than he or she does for a titer test. The profit margin is also higher, yes as vets pass on the cost of shipping and proper storage of vaccines administered to your pet, as well as the needle, syringe, and professional time to give the vaccine. However, the overall profit is still higher for a titer test as the vet increases the price to cover materials and professional time to draw blood, as well as to properly store and then ship the blood to the lab, and then again to cover a professional evaluation of blood results. So vets motivated purely by greed will happily perform titer testing, early and often.

[theBCnut]

Titer testing should be done once to make sure the dog is producing a proper immune response, but that’s important info to have even for people who plan to continue vaccinating regularly. After you know your dog’s immune system is responding properly, titer tests are of little value.

[neezerfan]

How do you know the immunity will be life long and where can I find that info?

[theBCnut]

I think that is a “Nobody knows” issue, until your dog comes in contact with a known sick dog and does or doesn’t get sick. I decided that I had to figure out how many years I was comfortable not vaccinating for, and for me, that number was 6, because some dogs were shown to start losing immunity after 7 years.

[neezerfan]

Good to know, thanks.

[LabsRawesome]

Hi Neezerfan, no, your dog doesn’t need booster shots. In fact they are pretty much useless, and harmful. Here’s a link to some good info. http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/health/articles/puppy-shots-and-dog-vaccinations.html

[neezerfan]

I’m doing titering, just wondering how often I should do that.

[LabsRawesome]

Okay, well in my other reply to you, I was answering your previous question- “How do I know if my dog has lifetime immunity? And where can I find that info? That’s why I posted info on vaccinations. You can find the info on immunity there. “Here’s some info on titering. I personally think titering is a waste of time, and money. Falling Titers: Oh-oh or No Big Deal? http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/titer-testing-dog/

Testing yearly will eventually show titers that fall off. Does that mean immunity is gone and you’ve got to head in for a “topping up” of the immunity reservoir?

No!

(And stop thinking that a “reservoir” even exists. I actually hesitated writing this word, as I don’t want you to think this is in any way reality).

It only means the antibody levels are waning. And why wouldn’t they? It’s a waste to keep making more antibodies when there’s no exposure to more virus. In its wisdom, the vital force deems its work is done in this area, and stops pumping more antibodies into the blood.

But, the good news is this: cellular memory is still very likely present to the bad guy you vaccinated against and, should your buddy ever be exposed to this virus again, BOOM, the antibody production factory fires up and the titer rises once again, and rather quickly at that.

So, it’d be a mistake to equate a titer that’s fallen with a lack of protection, and a greater one to think you need more vaccinations to re-establish protection. Immunity is still there, quietly, watchfully alert.

[In the older guys, I like to add a nice immune boost in the form of transfer factors, just to be sure their immune systems are acting out of the greatest responsive intelligence. And perhaps that’s a subject for another post.]

Have you used titers? Does this info help? Maybe you’ve even seen this: your animal’s titers kept on increasing for years after you stopped vaccinating! That’s what happened to my colleague’s dog on testing rabies titers. Let us know in the comments.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by LabsRawesome.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by LabsRawesome.

[Nancy C]

Yes, I read some of that a while back and thank you for reminding. If I do not do titering and do not do vaccines then the very PICKY STRICT Kennel where we occasionally board our dogs will not allow them to stay there. Titering allows me the luxury of qualifying at the picky kennel without poisoning my dogs with vaccines anymore than necessary. That’s good for something because I need a safe place to leave them periodically.

[InkedMarie]

Your vet should guide you on how often to titer. I hope to a holistic vet for titering ecw use my regular vets don’t really believe in them. They’ll do them but no thanks. I want a vet who believe & understand them to do them. Ginger & Boone have each been titered once; she hasn’t seen the need to repeat them.

Someone said vets will gladly titer; I’ve not found that to be the case. Here, vaccines make them more money than titering does (with my vets).

[Nancy C]

I am in NC. My vet has always been glad to titer, but I do not consider her holistic. She’s young (40 – 45) and open about that. She was no one in her vet class so I would guess she stays abreast of things and must know there is something TO titering. ??

[Nancy C]

So- BCNut, are you saying that Titering is not nec after they are done once? And are you of the mind that after that one titering we should let well enough alone, meaning don’t vaccinate and don’t titer either? I am not quite understanding this. Thank you.

[InkedMarie]

Nancy, you need to go by what your vet says. My holistic vet goes by the numbers from the blood test. She hadn’t felt the need to re-do the titers but if she did, I trust her judgement.

[Lucky22124]

My dog had a horrible reaction to vaccines earlier this year. The good thing was that I didn’t get very far with her & was able to rush her back in for treatment. They said that in the future they would give her pre-med before vaccinating her, but we got a second opinion just to be sure. The new vet said that other than rabies every three years, it’s too risky to vaccinate my dog because the reaction will be worse each time. So now we can’t really bring her into places like petsmart because of the risk of contracting parvovirus or bordatella.

She gets the heartworm preventative every month, but I don’t put flea medicine on her. She’s never had fleas in her whole life. We check her for ticks when we go to parks or other places where she might get them. I just always had a hard time applying the flea meds, which is why I stopped using it.

I think people should vaccinate their dogs if it’s safe to do so, but some dogs are allergic, and in that case, they shouldn’t vaccinate. It was our vets advice to not vaccinate our dog, and after almost losing her to the last vaccine reaction, I’m okay with that. I just have to be extra careful with my dog now.

[Naturella]

Great topic to come around to again. Bruno is “due for shots” this month but I think I will inquire about titering instead and only do what is mandated by law, if anything, or, of course, anything necessary based on the titers.

[Lee N]

Hi Everyone!

Dogs Naturally Magazine is a great place to fine info on vaccine for pets! Here a article I came across:

In a study performed by Vanguard, it was found that a combination vaccine (which typically contains parvovirus, distemper and one to five other antigens), given to six week old puppies had only a 52% chance of protecting them against parvo. This means that the puppy has all of the risk of the vaccine but only half the potential benefit. At nine weeks of age, 88% of the puppies in the study showed a response to the vaccine. At 12 weeks, 100% of the puppies were protected. Some vaccines will provide protection earlier or later.
Only one dose of the modified-live canine ‘core’ vaccine, when administered at 16 weeks or older, will provide long lasting (many years to a lifetime) immunity in a very high percentage of animals.
Vaccinating puppies under 12 weeks of age, and cer- tainly under nine weeks of age, for parvovirus is a high risk, low reward approach. Not only is the parvovirus component of the combination vaccine not all that likely to be effective at that age, it can actually work to block the effectiveness of the distemper component. It also makes the vaccine more dangerous, because the more antigens contained in the vaccine, the greater the risk of autoimmune disease (including allergies, joint disease and cancer). Moreover, most vets haven’t seen a case
of distemper in years which begs the question: what is the big push to start vaccinating puppies at six to eight weeks of age when the parvovirus component is unlikely to work and it is very unlikely the puppy will come into contact with distemper?

[Mom2Cavs]

I started titering about 3 years ago when I switched to my holistic vet. I give only the 3 yr rabies, required by law. I plan to continue this way.

[Melissaandcrew]

I start vaccines at 8 wks. Anything prior to that and you have the risk of maternal antibodies interfering with the pup developing immunity from the vaccine. Some immunity is better than none in my book. Socialization is important during those early weeks and while I would not put my pup down on the ground I c ertaintly believe they need to get out and about via carrying. I do a series of three start in at 8 wks and going every 3-4 wks for a series of three. If a breed prone to parvo such as the dobes rotties pits etc I make sure they have one after 16 wks . We do a 1 yr booster and possible a two year as my dogs have a high risk of exposure. We will randomly vaccinate depending outbreaks in the area. I other words they may never have a another or they may have.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 3 months ago by Melissaandcrew.

[Kathy N]

My Vet always put’s the pressure on me as well,about the Lepto vaccine..this one really scares me..and I said No…then they will say to me… don’t believe everything I read on the net…but this one seems to cause long term problems for the dogs..really freaked about this one,and Lepto is being seen more now in our area,that’s why they;re pushing it…I will titer my crew for the other vaccines from now on……

[Naturella]

So, we went to the vet today to get Bru his 3-year rabies shot he was due for (last year he got the 1-year one). I also wanted to talk about titers and skipping the rest of the vaccines. The vet we saw was not my usual semi-holistic vet, who does TCM, but another one. Still, she seemed nice and talked to us about titering and how most vaccines last a while, BUT, that if we plan to be taking Bruno to the dog park and socialize him with “questionable” dogs, we should vaccinate, and how it is cheaper than titering, and how expensive it is to cure some of those diseases that he may get if we don’t vaccinate and he happens to get sick, etc. My husband was so absorbent of the information and I was worried. I didn’t want to do the DAPP and Bortadella again because I KNOW he has immunity for at least the Bortadella (kennel cough) – my roommate’s dog got it bad, and Bruno did not, and he was around her a lot. So he has some good immune strength, I believe. But the doc said $250 for titers and $150 for shots, so that was kind of the dealbreaker for us there… It was one or the other for the hubs, and shots won… 🙁 He took them ok, was acting normally and what not. Now he’s all sleepy and seems a bit distressed… He growls at every movement – the wind blows outside, he growls. Ice gets dispensed in the freezer, he growls. And he was growling occasionally before, mostly at people/kids/dogs making noise outside, but OMG, it is like he got growl shots today, not rabies/DAPP/Bortadella shots! Geez… Last year he had no negative reaction to the shots and I don’t know if the sleepiness and growling are from the shots per se or just from the distress of being at the vet and being done things to, but otherwise he eats okay, pees and poops okay so far, and was playful with a dog-friend who lives in our complex, so he’s mostly alright…

Bottom line, I’m not too happy though – I think because we got the 3-year rabies, I will just “forget” to remind my husband of the other annual shots until 2017… And by then, I hope he will be more okay with skipping them… I’m thinking every 3-5 years as a booster should be fine (do them in 2017, then 2020, then 2025, 2030, etc., for as long as my sweet little baby is around), aside from rabies, which is every 3 years anyway. Hope it works out…

At least everything else on Bru checked out with accolades! He has great body condition and weight – now at 14.5 lbs – still growing as a lean muscle-machine! lol Vet did say to try to keep him between 14.5-15 lbs though, would be ideal for him. But as long as his body condition is good, I don’t care what he weighs… Muscle is heavier than fat anyway. Also great eyes, teeth (yay RMBs and brushing!), skin/coat (yay raw eggs, coconut oil, and sardnies!), and ears! Negative heartworm test and fecal float. Clean bill of health. 🙂

P.S. Vet also said to do year-round HW prevention… @Dori and @weezerweeks, what do you do for HW – year-round or no? (They live in GA as do I, and I think y’all may have told me in another post, but I forgot… 🙁 )
I read somewhere that it’s safe not to administer the pill between December and April, so I MAY try that if hubs does not notice… He freaks out at the possibility of Bruno being sick, and even more at huge vet bills, sooo he would rather take ALL preventive measures than “risk it” (even if it MAY be okay and better for the dog) and have a sick dog and a humungous bill…
I mean, I do understand him… But I am trying to instill a more holistic lifestyle in our household and all these meds and shots are messing with my philosophy, lol… Oh well, I’ll take meds too in emergencies – like when I had a pinched sciatic nerve – “ohmygodworsepainIhaveeverfeltIwantedallthedrugs”… After all the meds I was a happier camper, with nice crazy vivid dreams from them narcotics ;)… But still… the less chemical additives, the better I believe. Anyway, went off too far on a tangent, reeling back in to vaccines and opinions on them! 🙂

• This reply was modified 10 years, 3 months ago by Naturella.

[DogFoodie]

I hate to say it (since it’s too late), but if anything, I would’ve spread those shots out as opposed to getting them all on the same day. Sorry.

[Naturella]

4FF, it was an option, and would have cost twice as much as getting them added on to the rabies today, plus, he was fine last year with all 3 together, so we didn’t think much of it… Do you think the sleepiness and growling might be from that, or is it generally better to spread them out in time for small dogs?

[Naturella]

http://www.dogs4dogs.com/blog/2009/09/30/vaccinating-small-dogs-risks-vets-arent-revealing/

Well… This would have been beyond GREAT to know before today… 🙁 The vet we saw said nothing about those things, just said something to the effect of “Well, Bruno seemed fine after last year’s shots all at once, so we can do it for you again. Or, if you want, you can get the Rabies today and one of the other shots, or just rabies, and then the two other ones, but up to you”. She did not tell us it would be good for him, just that we COULD if we WANTED to… 🙁

Well, here goes the 3-day puppy watch to make sure he’s really okay…

[Naturella]

Ok, I have been reading a lot now. I think I still would have allowed for these shots anyway, “just in case”, as he has a questionable puppyhood (unknown time spent with mother, unknown vaccination history before around 4 months of age when he was found in the bushes). I do think Bruno will be okay (growling at everything is over, he is calmer (as in not being “distressed” by everything enough to growl) and playful). No lumps or any unusual marks at shot sites. No sign of pain. I will, however, rally as hard as possible to skip shots at LEAST until 2017. I don’t see a need as I believe his body will respond properly, and next year I plan to check with titers regardless of the cost (I will save a dollar a day if I have to, I should have at least 360 of them suckers to give to titers). So yeah… I will still watch Bruno for the next 3 days, but I think and hope all will be well. We all do what we think is best at the time, and with him being my first-ever pet (discounting the one I “had” for 2 weeks at age 11), I do my best to learn as I go.

Thank you all for all the help – it is so much appreciated! 🙂

[Dori]

Hi Naturella. Just saw your posts here. I wish I’d known Bruno’s vet visit was today. I would have advised you (oh, who’s kidding who here, you know me). I would have demanded you not give him the Bordatella the same week as the others. The sleepiness is from the Bordatella. When I used to do all that with Hannah I always waited a week or two for the Bordatella because of the overload to her system all at the same time. Don’t forget we have small dogs. The vaccines are the exact same dose regardless of size of dog. The rabies is the exact same one whether they write down one year or three. Question. If Bruno got his rabies shot last year then why did he get one this year? You’re in Cobb County same as me with only a three year requirement. Just wondering how the vet convinced you to do that.
Grrrrrrh! Vets just drive me nuts.

Oh, on the HW question you asked earlier, I give the girls Sentinel which I purchase at the vet (I don’t trust buying meds like that on line. Too risky for my taste) every month year round. You know how the weather is here. You never know what the weather is going to be here at any time of the year. The nights don’t normally stay cold enough for a long enough period of time here in the winter. Last Winter was an exception with all the snow and cold but who knew it was going to do that. In the past I’ve gotten plenty of mosquito bites in the dead of Winter. Of course, I’m a mosquito magnet. I know a lot of people in other areas can get away with not doing it year round but not here in the South. Heart worms is a really nasty thing and the cure is long, horrible, long periods of confinement and arsenic is used in the treatment of the disease. Not with my baby girls. This is one of those areas where for me giving HW meds is the lesser of the two evils.

[Naturella]

Hi, Dori! Thank you for your response! Glad you are a fellow night owl! 🙂

The thing I would have done had I seen the video in the link I posted is split the vaccines too, but he was okay last year, with no notable effects, so I didn’t know it was recommended, she made it sound like just an option to ease a financial burden. Well, it is late now, so of course he is asleep now, but he was more playful this evening and we had great time tug-of-waring. 🙂

As for the rabies – that I still did not know – that all rabies vaccines are the same – my paperwork says (and the vet said) that the one from last year was only good for one year (and it is cheaper by $12), and the one we did this year should be good for 3 years. I didn’t know they are the same thing, so I was trying to be in line with the law…

As for the HW, Bruno is also on Sentinel, and hubby and I had a talk when he came home from work tonight, and we agreed to give Sentinel year-round (plus I trust your judgement, so I probably would have done what you do too, considering you live probably a few miles away from me), but that we will titer next year or so, and not do any shots until 2017 for rabies. I am satisfied with this decision, and I hope Bruno’s titers will be good next year. 🙂

[Dori]

Hey Aleksandra. I knew you’d be up. Funny how some of us get to know each other’s habits.

Glad Bruno was getting back to playing this evening. He’ll be fine. Just keep an eye on him for a couple more days. It’s good that it’s a weekend so that you guys are with him more. I don’t know about taking him to the dog park this weekend in case you were planning on it. I’d give him kind of a laid back weekend if you can.

[Naturella]

Tee hee, so true, Dori! And this is why I love this forum – not only do you learn a ton, but you also get to know your “teachers” some. 🙂

And yes, he shall not go to the park or to any social events this weekend. I will give him plenty of time to rest and recover, plus, miraculously, my husband Brian is off this weekend, so there will be someone with Bruno for the most part. 🙂

Thank you again! For the advice, support, everything! 🙂

[InkedMarie]

I wouldn’t have caved. Shame on the vet bringing up the expense; shows some are all about the money. Why did you take appointment with this vet, why not schedule it with the other one you mentioned? I’ve been yo practices with more than one vet & I schedule appointments with my choice if vet, unless I have a sick dog. If you had titered, it would show if the dog had enough immunity.

As far as cost, for some, titering IS more expensive but you don’t titer to save money, you do it do you don’t over vaccinate a dog.

[theBCnut]

Just like some vaccines make kids and adults ouchy, some make dogs ouchy too. That’s probably what the growling was about. And as previously said, your small dog got the same dose as a great dane. He could be sore all over from it.

If you want to not give heartworm prevention over the winter, DO NOT go by dates on a calendar. Actually track the temperatures. When you live in the south, you can’t count on it being cold enough or staying cold enough according to the dates. A couple years ago, we had an entire week of freezing weather in November, but didn’t have anything colder that sweatshirt weather the entire rest of the year.

[Naturella]

Marie, for this year it had to be a compromise between the cost and husband’s peace of mind at the time. After showing him some research (unfortunately post-factum, I know, should have done it before, but you live and you learn), we have established a gameplan for the future that includes much fewer vaccines, and I know that whenever he does get shots again, they won’t all be on the same day at all.

TheBCnut, yeah, I think that’s what it is… he was sleepy and jittery at the same time. But he slept well through the night, no growling, and today he is his usual self. 🙂 As for HW, I think I will just give it year-round for the next 1-1.5 years while we live in GA, and then we want to move to the North-West (Washington/Oregon), or Mid-West (Chicago in IL, or in Ohio), or North-East (PA/NY/RI). So depending on where we go, we will gage the weather and hopefully be able to reduce the HW too. 🙂

[crazy4cats]

Oh my gosh, Naturella, you didn’t do anything wrong. Don’t worry, we do what we think is best for our dogs at the time. And BTW, I vote for you to move to Washington! We don’t have hardly any heartworm problems here at all!

[Dori]

Naturella. I’m glad you’re going with year round HW medication while you and your hubby are here in the South. Once you actually move, you can research what months are appropriate for HW meds and which are ok to do without. There are positives to living in the South but also, I find that there are negatives too! When I was younger Autumn and Summer were my favorite season, now after living in Georgia for 12 years Summer is probably my least favorite. I’m ready for some cooler weather. My brother lives in Seattle and hubby and I have been discussing next time we get the urge to move (actually that would be when I get the urge to move – he’d happily live in the same place forever…..sadly for him he hooked up with the wrong broad if that was his plan. I cannot even count the times we’ve moved. I love everything about moving, meeting new people, being in different spaces and places.)

So happy to hear that Bruno is back to his old spunky self.

[crazy4cats]

Dori-
A fellow Seattle Seahawk’s fan! Where abouts does your brother live? Have you been here? We need a spunky “broad” like you too in this area! Lol!

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