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Spaying/Neutering after maturity? + Dog Boxes?
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Oleanderz. I would not change her diet before surgery unless you are looking for a better food and she can transition and be on the new food for a while before surgery. If you do it too soon before surgery and she starts having issues you won’t know if they are from the change of food, surgery, anesthesia or what. None of my dogs metabolism ever changed after spaying or neutering but if it does, it’s an easy fix. If she starts to gain weight, feed her less. If she starts to lose weight, feed her more. It’s just like people. As to pain meds, etc. and/or antibiotics and cone. She will have to wear the cone at all times until the stitches are removed which is typically 10 days. If you or someone is going to supervise her at meal time, what I have done is remove it while they eat and then put it right back on. BUT SOMEONE MUST BE WITH HER EVERY SINGLE MOMENT WHILE SHE EATS. Some dogs don’t bother too much with their stitches and some are obsessed with them. Initially it’s because they are in a bit of pain and as they heal they start to itch. If you or your mother don’t want to supervise her with the cone off while she eats, then depending on the size of the cone and her height, you will need to feed her on a little bit of a raised platform. Just anything that will raise the bowl off the floor a little so that she can reach the food while wearing the cone. Use a stainless steel bowl for her food in case she or the cone knocks her food bowl over, the bowl doesn’t break. Also make sure she can reach her water in her water bowl while wearing the cone. Some vets will put dogs on antibiotics and pain meds when spayed, some will just do pain meds. Vets appear to be of different mind sets on this. I would definitely have her on pain meds at least initially. Probably the antibiotics also but that’s the vets call. No, she will not hate you or anything afterwards. She will be so thrilled with you when you pick her up after her surgery she will think you are her savior. She will be in discomfort, there is no way around that. It’s a hysterectomy. It’s painful. I don’t think you will need to keep her in a crate or cage but she should be left in maybe the kitchen or bathroom area with a gate at the door so that she can see out. She should not be going up or down any stairs. You don’t want her pulling any of the stitches. There are typically stitches inside (they will dissolve on their own) and outside which will be removed by the vet after approx. 10 days. Since you’ve waited this long to have her spayed, it seems to me that it would make more sense to have her spayed when you are home from college for either a two week break or summer vacation and you have everything scheduled before hand. It will also give you ample time to adjust her diet if you want to switch her food.
Hi Oleanderz. If you are going to wait to have her spayed until the summer when you are home from college then you can start to transition her to a different and better food right away. Just do it slowly as all transitions should be done with a dog that is not accustomed to rotation feeding.
As to fruits. Many of us routinely feed our dogs fruits (small pieces depending on the size of your dog). Bananas are perfectly fine. I think what Naturella was trying to tell you is that certain fruits and veggies should never been given to a dog such as grapes, raisins, onions. If you are given your dog a fruit make sure not to give any seeds or pits. They can be toxic. For feeding apples, remember no seeds and no peel. Apples are some of the most heavily sprayed fruits of all with pesticides trying to keep worms at bay and then all the wax that is applied to make them look pretty for the consumer so it is always best to peel them. We shouldn’t be eating the peels ourself unless purchasing organic apples from your local farm market. I give my dogs apples, bananas, blueberries, carrots, cucumbers, peaches, pears, all types of melons, broccoli, the list goes on and on. You can google what fruits and vegetables are safe to give your dogs. Or in reverse you can google what fruits and veggies should not be given to your dog.
I don’t think that weight loss or gain is going to become an issue once she’s spayed. I’ve never had that occur with any dog I’ve had spayed or neutered and all my dogs have been spayed or neutered.
If your dog drinks a lot of water or at least a normal amount of water that you don’t also have to add water to a wet food. If feeding just dry food than it is always a good idea to add a little warm water to the kibble. Helps break down the kibble sooner thereby with digestion and helping the kibble to break down and move through the system sooner and the more water a dog drinks the healthier their kidneys will be also. Most dogs don’t really drink as much water as they should especially with a dry food. The longer a food sits in their system the more possibility there is for bacteria buildup which is why it’s always advised to make sure a dog always has free access to water. The only exception to that I find is when you have a puppy and you are trying to potty train but that’s a completely different method for another day.
Another thing if I haven’t mentioned it somewhere along the way is what you say is your dog’s “strange” eating habits. The correct way to feed a dog is to put his/her bowl of food down and leave it there for 20 minutes then pick it up regardless of how much she has eaten. Even if she didn’t eat any of it, pick it up. At her next meal time, not when you think she’s hungry, but at her regularly scheduled p.m. meal, put her food bowl down and again, leave it for 20 minutes. Same routine. Pick it up regardless of what she ate or didn’t it. You may have to initially stay with her in the room while she eats so that she doesn’t decide to follow you around. Once she’s retrained you won’t have to do that. Keep doing this for both her meals every single day. In a few days all dogs figure out that when food appears they must eat it because it’s going to disappear. I’ve never known a single dog that didn’t learn that. Leaving her food down all day for her to pick at it has led to her “strange” eating habits. You just have to teach her that when food is given she is to eat it and if she doesn’t she will have to wait until the next meal time. While you are retraining her you MUST NOT give her any treats during the day and in between meals or she won’t be hungry to eat her food. It’s okay if you give her a little treat later in the evening after her meals have been eaten but while training with the correct way to feed and eat she cannot be given any treats. She’s probably getting so many “treats” that she’s not really all that hungry when food comes along or she prefers her treats and knows she doesn’t really have to eat the food because treats will be coming her way.
@Oleanderz, you are on the right track and in good hands with the pros of this forum! 🙂
So, about exercising – obviously not while she’s recovering from the surgery, but anytime she’s well, appropriate exercise depending on health conditions (joint and bone health, any other underlying conditions, etc.) – usually good long walks/jogs/runs, depending on what Lucille can physically do/endure will be good. Fetch sessions, swims, etc. are other ways to exercise that seem like a game.
Yes, Dr. Tim’s does have big bags! Unfortunately, only big bags… I really wish he packaged in 4-5 lb bags cause I have fed 15-lb bag of his Kinesis GF, but it lasts a while, and I like to rotate more often. One day when we get another dog in addition to Bruno, I will so get 15-lb bags and be cool with it! 🙂 Victor has 30-lb bags of the GF formulas and 40-lb bags of the grain-inclusive formulas.
I am very happy with using THK as a topper and would continue to use it! It makes it so easy to make my dog flavorful, nutritious, extra-hydrating “soups”. I probably would do one topper at a time, so either EB’s tub, or some THK, etc. Treats are still ok to be given, but I’ll get to that in a second. I usually still add a tiny bit of water even when I add canned. IDK about the EB tubs’ consistency, but I like pate style canned, so when I add water, it becomes nice and mushy with the kibble. But that’s just me. Like Dori said, you don’t have to ALWAYS add water, I just choose to do so and Bruno doesn’t seem to mind at all. And he still drinks his water from the water bowl too. Also, once you get Lucille accustomed to rotation, you can totally mix brands, for example using Victor or Annamaet kibble with Earthborn tubs, or Nulo canned, etc. Nulo is also pretty good, and if you email/Facebook the company, they will send you coupons for it. Annamaet sent me samples, and so did Dr. Tim’s. At sportdogfood.com you used to be able to purchase Victor samples for 33 cents/piece, and get up to 3 samples per recipe. So you can totally try them out first before buying, but I really think that all of these are high-quality foods.
Now, I second Dori on everything – free feeding is not a great practice, nor is treat “overloading” while trying to establish good eating habits. So do as she recommends, if you want – cut treats out, pick up food after 20min if not eaten. Try again at the next meal time. I have a feeling though, that once you start rotating and adding toppers, she will be pretty excited to eat her varying meals.
Also, like Dori said – most fruits and veggies are just fine, EXCEPT for onions, grapes, and raisins. I feed Bruno the same things Dori listed, and more, and he’s doing fine. Again, no seeds or pits cause they may be toxic. If you read the ingredient lists of many of those foods, they include a wide array of fruits and veggies that are safe for doggies to eat. So don’t stress it TOO much, but if you ever decide to add broth instead of water to Lucille’s meals, just make sure it has no onions in it.
Ok, so below you will find Bruno’s meal setup for the year – food lineup and toppers per meal. I am now out of the Sojo’s for the weekend toppers, but have a few cans laying around, so that will be the topper/meal instead of Sojo’s. We are currently on the second food in the food list – Wysong.
@Oleanderz, I will answer a couple of the questions you had to Dori, if both of you don’t mind – dogs can eat plain yoghurt, plain Greek yoghurt, and plain kefir. None of the fruity stuff – just too much sugar and other additives. Pumpkin doesn’t necessarily help with digestion per se, but it provides a lot of fiber, which helps calm the tummy, balance the stool and the bowel movements, and is overall a pretty good tummy additive when switching foods if problems occur. We tend to use canned plain pumpkin from the grocery store as it is already conveniently cooked and pureed in a can, but if you want to go through the trouble of peeling pumpkin, boiling/baking it, and pureeing/mushing it up, you also can. At the grocery store make sure you get plain (100%) pumpkin (and not pumpkin pie filling) cans.
Ok, now to my questions, lol:
When my roommate’s dog had her spaying surgery, he also lived in an apartment and his dog (Casey) was already pretty big, but for the day of the surgery he carried her up and down 3 floors for her to go potty. He didn’t want her stretching and pulling stitches and what not. I don’t know how feasible that will be with Lucille… Or if it’s even necessary, that’s just what he did. You may want to talk to the vet about that and see if she can stay overnight at least for the first day so that she doesn’t have to go up and down steps so much. We also carried Bruno on his surgery day, but he was small (still is), and by the next day he just ran out the door, perky and happy like he didn’t just lose his balls, lol. But talk to the vet about that, or maybe some of the pros will be able to answer. When she is healed, you can exercise her as normal, but not while healing.Hm, I will look at chewy.com for small Dr. Tim’s – I have fed Kinesis GF, but I really wanted to try Momentum, Pursuit, and RPM… Haven’t seen them in small bags though.
Lucille is a German Shepherd, right? I would probably rotate her every large (not medium) bag for now, just to let her tummy get used to switching slowly, i.e. – you do the rotation, then she has a good amount of time to get used to the new food, then you rotate again, time of “rest” from the switch. If in a few bags all rotations go well, just rotate as you prefer – you can start rotating every medium bag, or just keep it at every large bag. It really is up to you how often you want to rotate, and how she’s taking it. I like to switch up every month or so, and luckily, a small bag lasts us just the right amount of time for that. I have, however, used larger bags even for Bruno (yes, that’s him in the picture, my cutie patootie) – 15 lb Dr. Tim’s Kinesis GF and 3 14-lb bags of Earthborn Holistic GF (Coastal Catch, Great Plains Feast, Primitive Natural), but after Coastal Catch, which lasted like 3 months, I decided to half them and put a different food in between them, as you can see from Bruno’s menu list, lol. Your rotation plan sounds good, I would also switch up the protein with every bag, for example:
EB CC – Dr. Tim’s Momentum – Nulo FS Lamb – Victor High Pro GF –
EB PN – Dr. Tim’s RPM GF – Nulo FS Turkey – Victor Yukon Salmon GF –
EB GPF – Dr. Tim’s Pursuit – Nulo FS Trim Cod – Victor Joint Health –
EB MF – Dr. Tim’s Kinesis GF – Nulo FS Salmon – Victor Ultra Pro – repeat!*** EDIT *** – Don’t forget that Dr. Tim’s formulas Momentum and Pursuit are not GF! Everything else is. So you can switch between RPM and Kinesis GF to keep it all GF. Does Lucille have a grain allergy, or do you just like the idea of a food being GF? I used to think GF was better until I learned that dogs/wolves in the wild do consume a bit of the stomach content of the prey they kill, which is, often times, grains, fruits, vegetables, and greens, hence those foods contain those ingredients as well. But it is the meat content that matters most, so I still think that Dr. Tim’s grain-inclusive foods are a really good choice. The grain-inclusive Kinesis is the the only one rated 4 stars, all the rest are 5 stars. But you can use the GF Kinesis instead of the GI one. 🙂
This schedule provides diverse recipes and protein sources and if you choose to use bags that last Lucille about a month each, she will be set for about 16 months before a single recipe is repeated! Or 12 months, if you don’t use Victor. Feel free to use the above “meal plan” if you want, I hope it helps in giving you an idea of meal rotation and protein diversification. Or, you can switch the list up, or not use it at all, whatever works for your dog. 🙂
As for my lists, lol, thank you! Feel free to use them as templates anytime, lol, they are NOT proprietary information, lol! I made them for hubby’s ease in feeding Bru when/if I’m gone. And it did take me about an hour to look at all my foods, their expiration dates, and sort them out by dates and also by protein variety, which warranted the freezing of some foods and refrigeration of others… I did scrap some papers in the process, lol, but eventually made it work! So yeah. The toppers were easier to figure out as I only put a bit of each, and they are things I normally have around the house, except for the THK stuff – I mean, I do have it in the house, but it’s not like people-food. Eggs, yoghurt, coconut oil, sardines, and RMBs are though, so yeah.
D_O – yep!
@Oleanderz, one more thing – you really need to get all family members on the same page about feeding Lucille food and treats, especially when establishing better habits, and while transitioning. You could make similar lists/charts like me about what food they need to feed, or even pre-package them mixes during transition (I still do it with Bru) like this:3 freezer bags of food at 25:75 new food:old food, each packaged to last 2-3 days
2 freezer bags of food at 50:50 new food:old food, each packaged to last 2-3 days
2 freezer bags of food at 75:25 new food:old food, each packaged to last 2-3 days
1 freezer bag of entirely new food.So, start the rotation with one freezer bag of 25:75. If all is well, then go to 50:50. If not, go back to the old food. If things are good again, go to 25:75 again. Then to 50:50. If things go bad at 50:50, go back to 25:75 (hence the spare bags). Then if all is good, go back to the 50:50. Then 75:25 and so on. If all goes well from the first bag and transition is complete, you can still feed the spare bags too, she should be fine. Or toss them. But I still feed them to Bru.
***EDIT*** – Also, you can make an Excel spreadsheet with Lucille’s meal times for each day of the month and space for whoever feeds her to put their initials, so that everyone knows she has been fed. Bruno’s meal times are 10.00am and 7.30pm. But you can do whatever works for your family. You can also label the transition bags and explain the procedure to your family, write it out even if you have to. Once she’s transitioned, it will be easier… Till next transition. Eventually it may take less and less time to transition her. Within a week, Bru is able to be entirely on new food. So just see how it goes with Lucille.
Cheryl, I literally laughed out loud with true sincerity! 😀 Thank you so much for the kind words! I am not amazing, lol, but I do try to stay organized. However, I can be flexible too – I would skip a food in a heartbeat if it smells funny, Bruno doesn’t eat it, or it makes him sick. I’ve done it too, with Nature’s Variety Instinct Rabbit. It just did not work out. Oh well.
Also, 2 of his weekly meals, chosen at random, are just plain kibble eaten from a puzzle toy of some sort, just for entertainment and brain stimulation. Or fed during a training session. I use kibble as treats, and I use samples of various other foods than his main food at the time being to add variety, so sometimes the dry meals are all “treats” (different kibble), some “treats”, some normal food, or all normal food. On Tuesdays I will be trying to use a fish-based kibble as his meal (I used to do it on Saturdays, when he got Sardines anyway, but too much fish in one day is probably not as good as some fish twice/week), so Tuesdays he will be getting a fish-based kibble from my samples stash.
Dori, hoarding some THK and Orijen (for us kibble-feeders) may not be too bad of an idea. Especially today as we are supposed to be iced-in in GA. I hope we are and I hope schools and Universities are closed tomorrow. I want a day off mid-week-ish. So rebellious! LoL! 😀
***EDIT*** – Oh, and Cheryl – wouldn’t it be nice if they could just tell us what they want to eat on a particular meal from the closet/fridge/freezer? It would be soo much easier on us! 🙂 But, they can’t… So they just get what they can, and we just try to make it as healthy, yummy, and diversified as possible. 🙂
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