[Susan]

Hi
I think people are confusing these health problems caused by Legumes with Potatoes aswell…
Earlier this month, the Food and Drug Administration announced that it is investigating a link between these newer Exotic protein, high Legume Grain Free diets with a common type of canine heart disease, DCM.
FDA also mentioned Potatoes awell but I think Potatoes were only mentioned cause these newer grain free kibbles have Peas, Chickpeas & Potatoes, or they’ll have Peas, Green Lentils, Red lentils & Sweet Potatoes….
So Potatoes were mentioned on the FDA report??…
“Guilit by association”
I have seen NO proof that it’s potatoes blocking taurine & causing heart problems in dogs?
If anyone has any proof that potatoes are blocking taurine causing deficiency of Amino Acid Taurine in Dogs.
Please post this proof..

When G/F kibbles first came out years ago they all had Potatoes & Sweet Potatoes & there were NO health problems in dogs..
There’s kibbles that have healthy grains & potatoes, these kibbles have caused no health problems, these health problems happened since these newer G/F kibbles were very high in Legumes…
Types of Legumes
Chickpeas.
Beans.
Peas.
Lentils.
Lupins.

Royal Canine & Hills make vet formula’s that contain Potatoes but they do not have any vet diets containing Legumes..???

Potatoes are not related to Legumes.
Legumes are the fruit or pod of the botanical family Leguminosae. The potato tuber (Solanaceae family) is actually the greatly enlarged tip of the underground stem of the potato.
Potatoes are a Tublr plant with notable tuberous roots include sweet potato, cassava….

If you’re looking for a new kibble look for kibbles that have Sweet potatoes, Rice, Oats, Potatoes, Blueberries, Butternut Squash, Pumkin, healthy grains etc as long as your dog doesn’t have any food sensitivitives to certain grains & ingredients…
Make sure there’s no more then 20% legumes (peas) in the dry kibble, if the kibble has peas just make sure the peas are further down the ingredient list, 5th 6th 7th ingredient & peas are NOT 1st 2nd 3rd or 4th ingredient…

Here’s a kibble ingredient list that I’d avoid, this formula is very high in Legumes….

“Kangaroo, Kangaroo Meal, Peas, Chickpeas, Pea Flour, Sunflower Oil (preserved with Citric Acid), Flaxseed, Red Lentils, Green Lentils, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Pea Protein, Natural Flavors, Salt,”

*There’s Red Lentils, Green Lentils, Chickpeas & Peas, all these Legume ingredients make the protein % higher with Plant Proteins, Kangaroo is expensive so there’s more plant proteins, then meat proteins also look at ingredient spliting with peas? peas are 3rd ingredients, then again Pea Flour is 5th ingredient, then pea protein is 11th ingredient, if they didn’t split the peas up then the peas would probably have been 1st or 2nd ingredient…

also rotate your kibbles with different brands, so your dog has variety in his diet, if 1 brand of kibble does have something wrong with it, your dog isnt eating this brand long enough to cause any health problems cause your rotating his diet….

Look at Freeze Dried raw aswell, there’s some good freeze dried dog foods, the freeze dried ingredients are not cooked at very high temperatures like kibble is made so the nutrients stays in the ingredients….

“Ingredient spliting” is a trick these Pet Food Companies do, they split the peas up, in the ingredient list, pea flour, pea protein, pea fiber, when you see these ingredient avoid these dog foods as they are full of peas, the peas are really the 1st ingredient but cause they have split the peas into pea flour, pea protein, pea fiber, then the peas move further down the ingredient list but really the peas are 1st ingredient & your meat protein is probably 3rd ingredient….
Ingredient list are written when ingredients are raw, not cooked, these pet food companies know all the tricks & cons so we buy their foods, we just have to be smarter then them & learn how to read an ingredient list..

Please post kibble brands & their formula’s that are legume free or 20% or less in legumes, to help people that dont know what to feed till we get more answers..
Please no nasty posts…

[Audra M]

I would love a list of such foods. Did anyone suggest any? I am specifically looking for soy, corn and wheat free foods. I think Evangers May be a good match. I’m still researching.

[Kathy S]

I fed grain free dog food for many years and I just lost one of my Dachshunds last October to DCM. A breed that is not predisposed to DCM. There is so much confusion out there now about all of this and it is mind boggling. Once you have been through it it’s hard not to overthink everything related to dog food.
I started feeding freeze dried and dehydrated dog food because I knew it was my safe go to and continued to search for other legume free foods that weren’t as expensive.
I have started giving my girls a food called FirstMate grain friendly dog food. It is out of Canada and appears to be a very good quality. No peas or legumes or potatoes for that matter. I do agree that there really isn’t any evidence of potatoes causing a problem.
They have 3 formulas and the food is very dense so I feed a lesser amount and I am mixing it with the dehydrated food I am feeding. So far so good.
It sometimes feels like the dog food industry holds us hostage and I wish we didn’t have to do so much research to find a healthy food for our fur kids.
Thank you for your input. I am just trying to not overthink everything at this point.

[Patricia A]

Kathy very sorry about the lose of your Doxi. We were grateful to be OWNED by our Doxie Pookie many years ago. Actually hubby and I decided to watch some old family VHS videos and there was Pookie in every video with the kids. Our family was lucky to have him with us for 16 years. Was very hard to let him go but now these memories of our first dog as a family are the best.
We have a almost 17 year old Chihuahua who was just diagnosed with enlarged heart. However vet explained that in small breeds it is very common to have Mitral Valve disease which she has. Symptoms with most only show up in later years. Her X-rays show the enlarge heart. No lung edema which is great. Doxies are also prone to mitral valve disease. Maybe it wasn’t the dog food but just genetics.
What is Myxomatous or Degenerative Mitral Valve Disease?
Canine myxomatous or degenerative mitral valve disease (MMVD) primarily affects older, small to medium size dogs, although any dog can be affected. Degenerative changes thicken the valve, causing it to leak. When the disease and leakage progress, the heart enlarges. Predisposed breeds include Cavalier King Charles Spaniels and Dachshunds and other breeds – although the genetics are being investigated, the disease is very common in small breed dogs as they age. Though many dogs are affected in their later years, only about 25-50% of those with MMVD experience clinical signs of congestive heart failure (CHF, or uid build-up within the lungs).
I think I’ll share this also in main forum to let others know DCM can also be caused by other things then diet.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 9 months ago by Patricia A.

[Kimberly A]

Patricia, I just wanted to make sure that you have the correct information. Degenerative Mitral Valve Disease and DCM (Dilated Cardiomyopathy) are two completely different diseases. Yes, DCM also have breeds that are predisposed to this disease just like DMVD (Dobermans and Great Danes). While there is no “proof” yet, the FDA is still collecting data to pinpoint what the correlation is between high legume and/or potato diets and DCM. Golden Retrievers are also in a class of their own with DCM and nutrition (Taurine deficiency). There are TOO many unknowns at this point. I wanted to make sure you knew that DMVD is not caused by diet. They believe it is genetics but haven’t quite tracked down that marker. There are a few studies going on right now. Great to see how much you love your fur babies!!

[Patricia A]

Kimberly A Yes my bad I miswrote. MEANT to write that not all ENLARGED HEARTS are caused by DCM. So just wanted others to know that if you have a senior small breed dog enlarged hearts are normally caused by a predisposition for some to have DMVD which can eventually in older years lead to the enlarged heart with symptoms associated with.
Thank you for posting and your concern Kimberly. Hannah is doing well now with cough suppressant for her cough(trachea collapse also). She’ll be getting ultrasound next weeks also.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 8 months ago by Patricia A.

[Erica P]

How is DFA still not providing anymore info or taking a stance on the possible link between BEG diets and DCM??!

[haleycookie]

Because studies are still in their infancy and there’s no proven connection at this point. I’m sure mike will update on it once there is a real proven study on the subject. Which is far away at this point.

[anonymous]

Clear as day to me. My vet advised avoiding small companies, new companies, stay with large dog food companies that have been around a long time, grain-inclusive food. The larger well known companies are more likely to employ a veterinary nutritionist and do feeding trials.

Linking Diet to Dilated Cardiomyopathy (DCM)

excerpt below, click on link for full article

Your Pet’s Diet
“Cooperation between veterinary cardiologists, nutritionists, and the USFDA has confirmed that the increase in canine and feline DCM is linked to grain-free diets. The dogs and cats affected are often being fed boutique diets that contain exotic meats and are grain-free. On the ingredient list, the first 5 items listed are often non-traditional proteins (anything other than chicken or beef), potatoes or sweet potatoes, and legumes such as lentils or peas. Over twenty food brands have been identified, including home-cooked meals. While a small number of patients may require grain-free diets for management of chronic illness, most dogs and cats are being fed these diets as the result of heavy marketing and the misconception that grains cause illness”.
“While the link between DCM and grain-free diets has been confirmed, the exact cause is still under investigation. These diets may be deficient in an amino acid called taurine, or the components of the diet may not allow for appropriate taurine metabolism. This is of concern, as taurine is necessary not only for cardiac health, but also normal eye and brain function. Taurine levels in many patients are very low; however, only some patients improve with taurine supplementation. Other theories include a thus far unidentified toxin or lack of other essential nutrients”.

PS: I would avoid homeopathic vets, they can be dangerous to the health of your pet.

[Suzy F]

several years ago my sisters vet, a UC Davis graduate who is working with UCD re heart disease and dog foods, he told her exactly what has been said here. Avoid all dog food with legumes unless way down the ingredient chart. He also explained the splitting so again way down the chart. He also said avoid potatoes unless down the chart as research was still looking at them. My reproductive vet said said peas and other legumes should be way down or off of the ingredients list for breeding dogs as they do disrupt cycles and cause other issues still being studied. Thank you for such a great discussion

[Anne D]

Very helpful discussion! I just heard about chick peas and lentils being a concern so am rethinking my GSD dry food. Orijen is ranked here as a top food but it contains these ingredients, albeit slightly lower down the list of ingredients. Why is this food ranked so high? Who exactly are the ‘experts’ who rank these foods? So confused rn

[crazy4cats]

This sight judges food by its ingredient label. Board- Certified veterinarian nutritionists recommend judging pet food by a different criteria. They suggest checking out the company who sells it!

Stop reading your pet food ingredient list!

Unfortunately, Orijen and Acana which are both made by Champion are highly correlated with the increasing amount of dogs with nutritionally mediated DCM.

[Author]

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