[Case]

Is there any info available on what protein sources the Kentucky based Orijen plant will offer?

[LexiDog]

I don’t know but I am interested in finding out myself. I sent them an email.

[Case]

Would you be so kind as to post their reply?

[LexiDog]

Absolutely

[Case]

Thank you

[LexiDog]

Since the email contained, “The unauthorised use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden.”, I can’t post the email.

It didn’t say anything more that what can be found on their website.
http://championpetfoods.com/kentucky/ThinkKentuckyThinkFAQ.pdf

[Case]

Thanks anyway!

[Scott C]

For those of us who are stuck living in this corporate-owned United States of America and whose dogs love and have thrived on Orijen products, this is nothing short of a disaster.

Champion may choose to “wheel out” the fact that they are a small private company whenever it suits their purposes

(for example, to decline answering questions in an FAQ which they created, themselves… such an odd thing, to identify a question only to answer it by saying, “we’re a private company and won’t answer that question”)

but they are certainly behaving like a corrupt corporate giant.

The reality of Champion shifting its USA market products to production in financially destitute Kentucky, enjoying a tax credit in a state where they can pay “market competitive” wages to financially destitute employees, purchasing land from financially destitute owners, and sourcing ingredients at “competitive” prices from financially destitute farmers means that all of their high-sounding rationale boils down to “we can’t make enough food in Canada because we’ve grown too popular, and it will cost too much to employ Canadians, build Canadian factories, and purchase safe Canadian ingredients, so we’re cheating out on all of you loyal customers south of the border.”

Of the questions they do answer, the majority of answers in Champion’s FAQ about sourcing ingredients are vague “weasel-speak” and the entire concept fills me with dread.

American food ingredients may not–depending on whom you ask–(yet) contain actual toxins, like some Chinese (et al.) products do. However, the American diet is one of the worst on the planet among First- (or Second-, depending on whom you ask) World countries. That wretched level of nutrition is nevertheless largely in keeping with the quality and inspection standards and recommendations that multi-billion dollar agribusiness has purchased from the United States government. Would anyone who can afford to do otherwise ever buy Tyson chicken again, or trust Kellogg to provide a healthy balanced breakfast, or eat Wonder Bread? Clearly, not.

Does this mean that all American foodstuffs are corrupted? Clearly not (yet), but as the cliche’ goes, “fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.”

Indeed, there are strong, and likely successful, movements in our Congress to specifically deny the American people information about where the ingredients in their food are sourced, because such information is “bad for bid’ness.” If passed, these laws would allow corporations to respond to inquiries with something like, “Our food products are made to meet or exceed government standards and we are not required to release information regarding ingredient sourcing to the public.”

Why, then, would those who are blessed with the option of spending $100/month per dog on dog food (which is roughly what Orijen Regional Red costs) EVER consider it acceptable to trust our beloved pets to foods (like Purina, or Science Diet, or what have you) made with unreliable US (or, soon, “worldwide”) ingredients, meeting untrustworthy US guidelines for healthy nutrition, in factories held to unreliable US standards of sanitation?

I have sent a letter to Champion explicitly asking whether the reality of this change is that their Canadian products will only be available in Canada, Europe, and Asia, as their FAQ suggests. I will share whatever reply I receive.

Certainly, for us, if “Made in Canada” becomes “Made in USA” we will stop purchasing Champion’s products immediately.

[LexiDog]

I emailed them the same question and they came back with (quoted from the FAQ page):
“Champion’s Morinville kitchens will focus on supplying our growing Canadian, European Union and Asian markets. The new Kentucky kitchens with supply the USA.”

So, basically, the Canadian produced food will NOT be available in the US.

In reply to your “specifically deny the American people information about where the ingredients in their food are sourced, because such information is “bad for bid’ness.” If passed, these laws would allow corporations to respond to inquiries with something like, “Our food products are made to meet or exceed government standards and we are not required to release information regarding ingredient sourcing to the public.”

If the company does not want to disclose where they source from, don’t buy from them.

I don’t see this move as such a “disaster” as you do. I would prefer their food to continue to be made in Canada but the US made food does not mean that it is going to be bad. It all depends on how they handle the production, quality control and sourcing once the new kitchen is open.

Saying that the US kitchen is going to be crap, is wrong. You have no facts to back it up yet. Until they are producing in that kitchen with a final product on the shelves, you can’t judge. There are plenty of US made foods that are great.

I do share most of the same quality concerns that you have but I am not about to say that the US food will be a disaster. Whether we like it or not they are going to be making Orijen in KY and that will be the food that is available to the US customers.

I personally will not be making a decision on whether to purchase the US made food or not until the product is actually available.

[Case]

I’d like to hear the general consensus here. Do you guys agree or disagree with Scott?

[theBCnut]

I like to give good companies the benefit of the doubt, and Champion is a good company. Condemning a company for what may or may not happen at some unspecified time in the future seems silly to me.

[LexiDog]

Case, what do you think? Is it automatically going to be garbage because it will be made in the US?

[Case]

I agree. I also don’t understand why they’d limit their largest market to products made in Kentucky.

[Case]

Amy,

No. I was looking forward to the new formulas.

Only time will tell, but quality is what earned them their customer base. I don’t see why they’d spend a lot of money to cut corners and produce an inferior product.

[aquariangt]

I buy dog food made in the US with US sourced product, so I’m fine with it

[Scott C]

Amy,
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I admit that my post was borne of frustration, yet I stand by what I said.

It is a matter of record that American food (specifically, American manufactured or processed for) is increasingly less-safe. US Companies contaminated 15% more nations’ food supplies with human food that subsequently had to be recalled in Q4 of 2013 than ever before (ExpertSource), involving 860,000 pounds of food (compared to half that, one quarter earlier, the previous worst statistic on record). In 2010, 500 million (not a typo) American eggs were recalled, due to Salmonella poisoning (USDA) and 1906 US-manufactured food product recalls—all due to contamination of one kind or another—occurred between 2011 and 2012.

Selecting only one American company, Tyson Foods pled guilty to 20 felony counts of violating the Clean Water Act (2003), admitted to have continued contaminating the water supply for four years after federal search warrants were executed against them in 1999. In 2013, Tyson was cited four times by the US Department of Labor for OSHA workplace safety violations in which a human dismemberment occurred and may have entered the active production chain. In 2005, an undercover agent video-documented that Tyson was knowingly allowing chickens to be scalded alive in its plants, and dead animals tossed through the air “for fun” by employees. In 2008, federal courts found Tyson guilty of two counts of knowingly and intentionally using fraudulent labeling to claim that their products were anti-biotic free for over two years.

Now, an argument could be proffered that these are violations, so regulations are in place and adequate. The fact remains that American law is written to favor corporations who do the violating, as the duration of these ongoing transgressions suggests. (Tyson’s quarterly profits more than doubled in the second quarter, to $213 million US, and while prices have increased, cost savings were a significant factor. Having demonstrated that it saves costs by doing things like illegally contaminating the ground water, Tyson is not to be trusted with our health. Not Ever.)

So, one of my primary points is that I don’t trust American regulations in the way I trust Canadian regulations, specifically because Canadian law is so much more invasive to corporate operation than is American law. And one presumes that it is this, not the goodness of their hearts, which drives Champion’s move to open a plant in this country. It will be far easier for Champion to provide a much lower-quality product at much lower costs with much lower risk of being caught for having done so here in the United States than ever in Canada. It will also be far harder to detect a drop in ingredient quality until it is too late. American law and regulation cannot even guarantee safe food for our children; how could we ever have the hubris to assume it will protect our pets?

It may be, of course, I readily acknowledge, false to say that whatever Champion produces in Kentucky will be a priori garbage. My fear may be completely unfounded. It is only a fear of the future, after all.

I merely state that it will not be *my* pets who die when this turns out to not be the case. You may, of course, put your own pets at whatever level of risk you deem acceptable. For ourselves, we searched for months for a food we could trust as the result of laboratory tests and an environment of government regulation and we thought we had found Champion. In moving to Kentucky, Champion abandons virtually everything that made it our choice. They leave behind Canadian (often, wild) game ingredients, raised on healthy diets, near or in uncontaminated waters, processed humanely through systems exceeding Canadian government standards for human food, in facilities carefully and strictly monitored by a government which properly _shuts_down_ companies that seriously violate public health (rather than fining them a mere 3% of their quarterly profits, or, if you prefer, 0.0203% of their annual revenue). This is akin to setting the penalty for robbing a bank at something like $50 and pretending it’s a deterrent.

If you feel I’m being overly dramatic by using a criminal metaphor, read the above, again: They _pled_guilty_ to 20 _felony_ counts of violating public safety by contaminating lakes, rivers, and groundwater. Their penalty was $7 million. You can do the math.
———————–

Case,
For three reasons, I’m saddened that you have chosen to introduce the proposition of quantifying agreement or disagreement with my view.

First, thousands of you disagreeing with me will not shield your pets from toxic food, should my worst fears be realized.

Second, thousands of you disagreeing with me in a public forum monitored by Champion will simply reinforce the perception of the US being a trusting, safe environment for business, and encourage the worst from them, should my worst fears be realized.

Third, thousands of you disagreeing with me will serve no purpose other than to end the discussion. “Let’s vote on it,” has long been teamspeak for “I’m tired of this topic, let’s pretend we have an answer and move on.” Yet will your disagreement with my perspective keep my dogs safe? Will Amy’s reticence to think ill of Champion until the damage is done prevent that damage from occurring?
———————–

Everyone,
Here is the bottom-line:

The American Veterinary Medical Association has recorded over 914 pet food recalls from American companies in the last two years. NBC News has reported over 1000 dogs dead and over 4800 animals sick in the past six months from jerky treats alone. In 2002, the peer-reviewed American Journal of Veterinary Research found that the FDA was wrong in its earlier finding that pentobarbital residues in dog and cat food were from euthanized cattle, re-opening the serious allegation that the pentobarbital in American dog and cat food was, in fact, from… rendered (euthanized) dogs and cats. The semi-sacred Royal Canin brand is facing a class action suit over toxic levels of vitamin D in its products. American laws–the lack of them–allowed the FDA to find in 2005 that Diamond Pet Foods was releasing food containing up to 1,851 parts per billion of the deadly mycotoxin, aflatoxin. Acceptable levels are twenty (20) parts per billion. Over 100 dogs died because proper testing costs money and isn’t required.

Trusting these profit-makers to care for your animals is no longer reasonable. Trusting American regulations to protect your animals is no longer rational. Champion may be a good company today, or it may be that Canadian regulation keeps them honest. Without knowing which is true, I must see the move to American as a large step down a slippery slope. My intuition tells me this is the narrow end of the wedge.

We will buy Orijen until it is no longer made in Canada, and then I will stop buying it.

Fundamentally, I believe we should all actively question and challenge—and not merely trust until someone’s beloved pet lies dead. After all, that’s why this website exists in the first place.

Respectfully yours.

[Case]

Isn’t this a private forum?

If someone from Champion is indeed monitoring our conversations then they know that the reason we choose Orijen is the quality. If the quality goes, so does our business.

Scott,

I didn’t intend to form a mob to disagree. I found your post thought provoking and would like to hear the opposing viewpoint from someone as well spoken as you.

If someone were inclined to join you in boycotting Champion, what other brands would you recommend?

[LexiDog]

You better either live on a self sustaining farm in the US or not in the US at all. Based on your comments and convictions expressed in this forum nothing is safe in the US but Canada can do no wrong.

I am surprised that you feed a commercial kibble at all with the way you feel.

I am sorry to say that even Canada is prone to recalls.
http://healthycanadians.gc.ca/recall-alert-rappel-avis/index-eng.php?cat=1

I love my pets to the point I go on websites such as these and learn as much as I can so I can provide the best products for them.

Thank you for expressing your opinion on US foods.

[Lynn J]

Scott, what foods would you consider after Orijen starts manufacturing in the US? Just curious…..

[Case]

Scott,

Have you moved on?

I’m trying to get a Champion rep to commit to an answer about the availability of Canadian product after the Kentucky kitchen is cooking. I’ll post updates in my Orijen ingredients thread.

/forums/topic/orijen-ingredients/

[Isabel P]

I have been feeding Orijen for a few years and I’m not happy about their decision to produce food in KY only for sale to the US consumers. I was willing to pay a higher price because it came from Canada which I feel has stricter regulations and uses wild caught/ locally sourced ingredients.
I will be watching how this develops closely, as 1 of my 3 dogs is highly allergic and needs to eat not only grain free but also potato free food, which means limited choices.

[Nancy C]

Like EVERYTHING ELSE going on in this country what is required of each individual is wakefulness. It appears their decision is made. We cannot know how the food is affected until a later date, if even then. It’s very hard to “know” anything anymore. What choice does one have but to wait and see?

[DogFoodie]

I think we should be applauding Champion’s move to bring a production facility into the U.S. when so many other manufacturers are pulling out. Champion’s standards are their corporate philosophy. I don’t understand why people seem to think that because a product will be manufactured in the US, it will somehow be sub-par as a result.

I do understand the concern that Champion hasn’t disclosed yet whether there may be limitations on product offerings in the US, as those recipes manufactured in Canada might no longer be available here.

[Melissaandcrew]

I love Champion products as I have said many times. I have not bought it recently as I am rotating other brands right now, so it was a surprise for me to read that the Singles have gone down to a 25lb bag. When they reformulated them before, I was told by the customer service it was for uniformity amongst the bags-Acana had been bigger than Orijen and that did make sense to me. However, if the new bags are 25lb, then based on that previous statement, I expect all to drop to 25lb-and that alone may be a deal breaker for me. At some point, I think they are going to price themselves right out of them market in the US, and then the Kentucky plant really won’t be needed, lol.

With that said, I will wait and see if the quality appears to drop, or if there appear to be issues. I will not judge based only on production location. I have no reason to believe that a company would invest 85 million to make lower rated foods in the US, but who knows?? If Champion wants to keep me as a customer(and I buy a ton of food) they will have to keep quality and formulation right up there on par with the Canadian produced foods-I am not interested in redesigned products with less meat content etc. Only time will tell.

[Melissaandcrew]

I love Champion products as I have said many times. I have not bought it recently as I am rotating other brands right now, so it was a surprise for me to read that the Singles have gone down to a 25lb bag. When they reformulated them before, I was told by the customer service it was for uniformity amongst the bags-Acana had been bigger than Orijen and that did make sense to me. However, if the new bags are 25lb, then based on that previous statement, I expect all to drop to 25lb-and that alone may be a deal breaker for me. At some point, I think they are going to price themselves right out of them market in the US, and then the Kentucky plant really won’t be needed, lol.

With that said, I will wait and see if the quality appears to drop, or if there appear to be issues. I will not judge based only on production location. I have no reason to believe that a company would invest 85 million to make lower rated foods in the US, but who knows?? If Champion wants to keep me as a customer(and I buy a ton of food) they will have to keep quality and formulation right up there on par with the Canadian produced foods-I am not interested in redesigned products with less meat content etc. Only time will tell.

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