[Ruth Anne G]

Hi have a lab and collie mix who is 3 months. We just got him on Friday. We tried dry kibble but he wouldn’t eat it. He’s had diarrhea (on meds now). We did a parvo test and it was negative. At the moment he’s been eating chicken and rice. I want to make homemade food for him. I’ve heard too many commercial dog foods getting recalled. Does anyone have any advice on what to feed my puppy?

Thanks in advance

Ruth Anne

[anonymously]

What did the vet recommend? I would stay with the chicken and rice for a few days, then slowly add the new kibble to it. You haven’t even had him 72 hours…give him a few days to adjust, he’s only a puppy. Add a splash of water to his food.
Some science based information here: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/

Homemade diet recipe and tips here: http://www.homeovet.net/dynamic/php/downloads/dog-c8470f2c75dbe4b683205c3919ee2310/dog_diet_complete.pdf

[Ruth Anne G]

We have had him since last Friday sorry. We’ve had him a week. We got him from the shelter so he has not had his shots yet. They had a tech look at him and suggested the chicken and rice. He’s been on that for 5 days and i feel as though he needs more. They suggested that we do what we saw fit. He gets his shots tomorrow so i’m going to be asking the vet questions when i meet him.

[C4D]

Hi Ruth Anne G,

I foster a lot of rescue dogs from kill shelters. He might be suffering from “stress diarrhea”, which is common in puppies and even adult dogs when moving to a new situation. He could also have worms or some other intestinal parasites. The vet will be able to determine those when you see him/her. Has he had any of his shots at all? Many shelters do them on intake, but I have known of many that don’t do anything and it sounds like that may be the situation in your case.

How is he doing on the chicken and rice? If it’s controlling the diarrhea, I would keep him on that for a few days and see what the vet finds as far as parasites, etc. You can slowly introduce him to a new food. It sounds like he will be a large breed so you might want to check the forums on large breed puppy foods. There is also a link on the dog other side of this that discusses large breed puppy food. Good luck with your pup! Keep us posted! 🙂

[Ruth Anne G]

My puppy was only at the shelter for 2 days when i adopted him. They still own him until he gets all his shots and is neutered. They have him on an antibiotic to decrease chance of upper respiratory infections. The tech said it causes diarrhea too. (frustrating!)

Anyway he is getting his shots tomorrow. He gained 1lb 2oz in the week that I’ve had him so at least that is positive. I took him in on Thursday to check for parvo since his diarrhea was really runny. It was negative thank goodness. They gave me a liquid peppermint smelling medicine to give him. It’s for 5 days so Tuesday will be his last day on that. Thankfully this morning when i took him out for the first time since last Friday it was still mushy but it wasn’t liquid. Progress!

He was doing okay on the chicken and rice but they said he might be allergic to chicken. I talked so a vet who said that puppies who chew on their feet a lot are allergic to a protein. I switched it to rice and lamb for one day and it was a HUGE difference. He has more energy and doesn’t chew on his feet anymore.

I’m going to have the vet check him for any worms too just in case. He will get a check up tomorrow so I’m looking forward to chatting his ear off on what to feed him. He does not like dry kibble. The lab and rice i gave him was from a container called Caesar’s puppy. He seems to be enjoying that for now.

Thank you for the advice.

[anonymously]

Regarding food intolerances:
excerpt below from: http://www.2ndchance.info/Apoquel.htm
Food Allergies are probably over-diagnosed in dogs (they account for, perhaps 5-10%). Hypoallergenic diets are occasionally, but not frequently, helpful in canine atopy cases but you should always give them a try. Food intolerances are more common – but considerably more likely to result in digestive disturbances and diarrhea than in itching problems.

Check the search engine here /forums/search/allergies/

Also, if the dog is still sick tomorrow, you may want to ask the vet about postponing vaccinations until he is medically stable.

Down the road if the allergy symptoms continue, the best choice would be to see a board-certified veterinary dermatologist, if one is available near you (here is a list: http://www.acvd.org/).
Don’t be fooled by mail-in saliva and hair tests, I have heard they are unreliable.

PS: Any kibble soaked in water overnight is like wet food, especially if you mix something tasty in it. Nutrisca Salmon and Chickpea dry and canned has no grains, no potato, no chicken or egg. See Chewy. com for price comparison.

[Susan]

Hi Ruth, some dogs can’t eat boiled rice, it irritates their bowel, when I rescued my boy 3 years ago, first he was weeing blood, so he was put on the Royal Canine Vet Diet S/O Urinary kibble & wet tin after 6 weeks his crystal had all dissolved & vet said stop feeding the Royal Canine Vet diet & feed a healthy diet, Patch started having diarrhea on & off, I couldn’t work out what was wrong, he’d do poos with Jelly, then poo’s with blood, then diarrhea, then normal poos, but when he was eating the Royal Canine Vet diet S/O his poos were fine, later we realised there was no rice in the wet tin S/O then finally vet realised it was the boiled rice & he had food sensitivities….we thought chicken also but he eats chicken now…
Try feeding boiled potatoes instead of the boiled rice & see if poos are better…. Patch also didn’t like kibble in the beginning, so I started using his kibble as treats….
Read the ingredients on the wet tin foods & don’t get any that have rice & see how he does…also some wet tin foods will say Lamb & when you read the ingredients it will have poultry by-products as well & only a little bit of lamb…

[C4D]

Hi Ruth Anne G,

You could try a different protein source other than chicken, there are many. At this point, before the vet check, anything that he will eat and stop the diarrhea is fine. He might have a chicken intolerance, but until the parasite check comes out clean, you just won’t know. Make sure that the vet sends it out to a lab, vs an inhouse fecal float. That’s the best way (and it still has it’s flaws) to find possible parasite infection. I’ve been through those before and it’s not pretty.

Caesar’s puppy is really not a great deal, there are many others that are priced the same or better with far better ingredients. Susan is absolutely right about the ingredients. Here are the ingredients I found on Caesar’s website. It actually contains an unidentified meat by product, chicken, and unidentified animal liver before the lamb, so it might be more stress diarrhea than chicken issue:

Ingredients: MEAT BY-PRODUCT, SUFFICIENT WATER FOR PROCESSING, CHICKEN, ANIMAL LIVER, LAMB, RICE, CHICKEN BY-PRODUCTS, CALCIUM CARBONATE, SODIUM TRIPOLYPHOSHPHATE, FISH OIL, CARRAGEENAN, POTASSIUM CHLORIDE, DRIED YAM, ADDED COLOR, XANTHAN GUM, MAGNESIUM PROTEINATE, NATURAL FLAVOR, SALT, ERYTHORBIC ACID, DL-METHIONINE, GUAR GUM, SUGAR, ZINC SULFATE, VITAMIN E SUPPLEMENT, BIOTIN, POTASSIUM IODIDE, COPPER SULFATE, YELLOW #6, SODIUM NITRITE (FOR COLOR RETENTION), D-CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, YELLOW #5, MANGANESE SULFATE, THIAMINE MONONITRATE (VITAMIN B1), VITAMIN A SUPPLEMENT, VITAMIN D3 SUPPLEMENT

Let us know how he does at the vet and we will be more than happy to help. I agree with Anonymously on possibly holding off on the vaccines until the diarrhea is contolled, but your vet can decide. I would personally give it a few days, but that’s IMO! 🙂

Red, kibble soaked in water is just kibble soaked in water. The only thing that’s similar with wet food is there is more water in it than dry kibble. It is still a highly processed product, even more processed than canned. The water is better than dry, but canned or fresh is still less processed and better than kibble.

[Jenn H]

Ah puppies & diarrhea. There’s a million causes.
Given that he’s been having to adjust to new environments in his short life I’m going to keep my fingers crossed that it’s just stress/excitement.
To help him symptomatically make sure the rice you give him is white rice. Brown can be more difficult to digest. When you make the rice save the water it’s boiled in and pour it over food and/or give it to drink.
Pumpkin is a great help in relieving diarrhea. 1 tsp/10 #s.
I have also had great luck with probiotics. An easy 1 to get a hold of is Nutri-vet Food Transition. It’s at Petco & comes in packets or tabs. It’s not expensive. Works great.
Then there’s my all time favorite thing and that’s raw goat milk.
When giving probios or goat milk wait 2 hrs before or 4 hrs after meals if on an antibiotic.
If you think he has a chicken allergy you can try giving him organic ground beef w/ the least amt of fat you can get. Boil it like you would the chicken.
I usually get i/d cans when my dogs need to be on a bland diet. It’s a prescription food. But it makes me feel better to add the rice, chicken/beef to supplement the food because then I know it’s balanced. This is obviously a diet that isn’t meant to be fed for too long. Especially with a growing pup.
Ask the vet to hold off on vaccines until his immune system isn’t busy fighting something else or he’s less stressed. Also I personally prefer to spread out vaccines at least 2 wks apart. I don’t do combos. (Except the parvo. It only comes that way.) It’s easier on the immune system and if there’s a reaction I can know which was the cause. And I only do the core vaxx. Understand that I am not an anti-vaxxer. Just not an over-vaxxer. It took me 30+ yrs of raising dogs and other animals to figure out that they don’t need a lot of the stuff we shoot them up with. And the difference between vaccinating and immunization. And what the shots do when an animal isn’t in optimal health at the time they receive them.
Sometimes dogs lick their paws because they have a fungus. That’s not always a sign of allergies. So if eliminating chicken doesn’t help, try looking into that.
Good luck with your new puppy. Congratulations!

[anonymously]

Soaking the kibble (prescription or nonprescription) overnight in water in the fridg makes a big difference in the texture and smell of the food. Plus the dog gets more water in their diet.
Let us know what your vet recommends after examining him. Best of luck

[anonymously]

BTW: All canned foods (dogs, people, whatever) tend to be higher in sodium, it’s just part of the canning process. I don’t have to read any labels or ingredient lists to know that.
Ask your vet, or a nutritionist if you don’t believe me.

[C4D]

Red, I’m not sure where you got the information that salt is part of the canning process. I don’t buy a lot of canned foods, but the ones I do buy are salt free. I have found sardines, tomato products, and vegetables that are salt free. The National Center for Home Food Preservation doesn’t agree with your statement:

Canned dog foods often can be higher in fat than traditional kibble, but not necessarily higher in sodium. Could you please link where you got that information from? Salt is considered an essential mineral by AAFCO Standards:

I don’t know why, but it won’t allow the links, but if you look up theNational Center for Home Food Preservation and go to FAQ’s and AAFCO Standards, you will find it.

• This reply was modified 9 years ago by C4D.

[anonymously]

I am not here in a professional capacity.
I am just offering my opinion.
BTW: Salt has many different chemical names. Some things are just common sense.

[C4D]

Red, you said:

“BTW: All canned foods (dogs, people, whatever) tend to be higher in sodium, it’s just part of the canning process. I don’t have to read any labels or ingredient lists to know that.
Ask your vet, or a nutritionist if you don’t believe me.”

This doesn’t sound like an opinion, it sounds like you’re stating fact, and it would be an incorrect fact. I’m aware of all of the various names of salt and/or sodium. However, they can not can foods that say salt free and add salt in any manner or rename it. Salt is not a part of the canning process.

Common sense would include reading the labels or ingredient list, particularly if you don’t want or cannot have a specific ingredient in your food.

http://www.mealtime.org/professionals-and-government/frequently-asked-questions.aspx#10000

• This reply was modified 9 years ago by C4D.

[anonymously]

“BTW: All canned foods (dogs, people, whatever) tend to be higher in sodium, it’s just part of the canning process. I don’t have to read any labels or ingredient lists to know that”.
“Ask your vet, or a nutritionist if you don’t believe me”.

“tend”: to be disposed or inclined in action, operation, or effect to do something

“Ask your vet, or a nutritionist if you don’t believe me”: meaning, ask a health care professional to clarify, if you have any questions

“BTW: Salt has many different chemical names. Some things are just common sense”.
fact and opinion

[C4D]

Red, I’m not going to continue this, since you don’t seem to get the point and this is not helping the OP.

[anonymously]

You went off topic and criticized my post, most of the time I ignore these things, occasionally I do respond.
From now on, I will ignore all comments made by the above poster.

I hope the OP had a positive day at the vet with her dog and we get an update 🙂 Peace.

[Jenn H]

Soaking kibble in warmish water and letting sit for about 5-10 min is also a good idea. Once the kibble has stopped “growing” in the water I feed it.
When you don’t add water to kibble the moisture comes from the dog’s body. The kibble then grows in the belly. If overfed they can get bloat.
I also do this because dogs don’t always drink enough to rehydrate what the kibble soaks up. (1 of my girls is like that and has become constipated/impacted.)
The warmish water is supposed to also make the food more aromatic.

[Ruth Anne G]

UPDATE! So my puppy is doing much better. The medicine helped a lot with the diarrhea. He no longer has it. He’s off of his antibiotics (to prevent upper respiratory infection). He is almost potty trained but still has a few accidents. So i consulted with my vet and a friend and I ended up making my own dog food. He’s been eating it for about 4 days now and he loves it. I add a supplement with it but the recipe i used is great for him. His energy is higher and he doesn’t have dandruff nor does he scratch and bite at his feet or fur anymore. He’s doing so much better and he seems happier. He got his deworm and vaccine on Monday. He cried all the way to the shelter poor thing. (He gets car anxiety)

Other than that he’s doing a lot better and he’s enjoying his new home. Thank you all for the advice. I look forward to asking other questions if need be later on. Thanks a lot!

[Susan]

Hi Ruth, that’s great he’s doing well, on Monday can he have his vaccination BUT ask the vet can you take home his allwormer & give it to him the next day at night with food, I never do 2 things at once, I do 1 thing at a time with my sensitive boy…That way if Patch vomits or has diarrhea I know what caused it……
My boy use to get anxious in the car, so I started taking him on real short car trips to the dog park, then the pet shop, everywhere I took him was good places, its 3 years since I rescued Patch & now loves the car……

[Jenn H]

Susan has a good idea about taking your pup on very short trips in the car. I would just like to add that make sure all trips aren’t to the shelter/vet. Either drive a few minutes aimlessly or to a fun place like a pet store (maybe during non peak hrs at first since he’s so excitable). Make it positive. Another thing you can do is give him something to do chew while in the car. This will only be for the car. That way it’s “special” and will redirect attention as well as provide an outlet for anxiety.
Some find Rescue Remedy or other calming things like that to be helpful.
I’m glad your dog is doing better. He lucked out and found a great person.

[ovcharka]

I’ve had my dogs on homemade for years and they’re incredibly healthy. Get a strong meat grinder (at least 1hp), I use LEM #22. Grind up whole roaster chicken, bones and all. Remove some of the skin & fat first. Also grind hard boiled eggs, shells too. Get a good food processor to puree a variety of veggies, including leafy greens (I use kale). Add some ground flax seed (coffee grinder works here) and some powdered/granular kelp. I also add oatmeal, but that’s optional. I use no synthetics, no supplements. I make big batches and freeze. I have the healthiest dogs on the planet!

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