[crazy4cats]

Hi-
Has anyone tried the Nature’s Logic Food Supplement? Here are the ingredients:

INGREDIENTS: Spray Dried Chicken Liver, Porcine Plasma, Whey, Flaxseed, Montmorillonite Clay, Brewer’s Yeast, Dried Egg Product, Egg Shell Meal, Cheese Powder, Kelp, Suncured Alfalfa Meal, Almonds, White Fish Meal, Tomato Powder, Chicory Root, Apples, Blueberry, Apricots, Carrots, Pumpkin, Cranberry, Spinach, Broccoli, Parsley, Artichoke, Rosemary, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium Bifidium Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Coagulans Fermentation Product, Dried Pineapple Extract, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Extract, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Trichoderma Longibrachtum Fermentation Extract, Mixed Tocopherols.
Direct Fed Microbials*:minimum 100,000,000 CFU per pound (in descending amounts, L. acidophilus, L. casei, B. bifidium, E. faecium, B. coagulans)

I bought some mostly because it has the montmorillonite clay in it that I think helps with my dogs’ digestive issues. But, it also appears to have some other good ingredients along with digestive enzymes and probiotics. It is also high in fiber which seems to help my dogs. But, I’m having second thoughts as I don’t want to over supplement my dogs if I am already feeding a balanced kibble with toppers. Any thoughts?

[aimee]

C4C,
The Fortifier has essentially the same nutrient profile as all the NL diets do. So no need to worry about over supplementing as adding this to your dogs diet is essentially the same as if you mixed in a few kibbles from one of their foods into what you are currently using.

[crazy4cats]

Yes, that makes sense. Thank you!

[theBCnut]

Um, since they tested one diet and reported almost exactly the same numbers for all the diets that they didn’t test, I would worry that they did the exact same thing here and argue that you may really have no idea what is in it. I wouldn’t use it more often that once every 2 or 3 days, and then it would depend on how much of it you use.

[aimee]

Good Point BCnut!

[aquariangt]

I’m a bit confused as to the point of the item, honestly. Is it similar to Nupro + a digestive aid? What would be the purpose of using this? Actual question, not being facetious 😉

[theBCnut]

I have heard someone mention it as a whole food vitamin to add to homemade raw, just to make sure your bases are covered. I would feel better about it if their “GA” was very different than their food, but the fact that it is the same makes me think they haven’t actually run an analysis on it.

[crazy4cats]

BCNut and Aimee-
Thanks again. That’s another good point! Will probably not buy again and try to find the supplements elsewhere.

Agt-
I explained exactly why I bought it.

[aquariangt]

No, I saw the reason you got it, I was wondering what it was used for as a whole-what are they marketing it as, what it’s place is and such. If you need a specific item in it, that’s one thing, I was just curious as to what the item was for overall

[crazy4cats]

In addition to what Patty mentioned, I think if the supplement actually contained what the label says it does, it would be good to use almost like a topper for some of us. I tend to buy budget friendly kibble without any extras in it. Like right now, finishing up a bag of Eagle Pak. It could pump up the protein, add some goodies, enzymes and probiotics. But since the company has some possible issues, maybe not such a good additive after all.

[theBCnut]

I would use it. I just wouldn’t count on the GA being completely accurate, which when added to a complete diet may mean that some nutrients would be at too high a level. So I would give it at half the dose they recommend or give it every 2 or 3 days. I just wouldn’t give a full dose every day.

[Peter L]

The actual analysis panel for NL products is in fact product specific. There seems to be a lot of urban legend in this thread and very few facts. GA’s are never 100% accurate because there are small variations between lots not because they test on recipe and then attribute results to all recipes. If you follow the recommended feeding instructions, there is zero chance of over supplementing your animal. If your dogs need more calories because of weather or work load, use a denser, high quality food. It makes no sense to feed a bargain brand to save money and then douse it with an expensive supplement. You end up with garbage covered in hollandaise sauce. Its still garbage.

[crazy4cats]

Ummm, thank you, I do get what you are saying, but I don’t feed my dogs or cats garbage.

[aimee]

Hi Peter L

The posted “actual analysis” for each product appears product specific. However, when I last spoke to Scott Freeman, the owner of Nature’s Logic, he told me that he only had one formula fully analyzed. The chicken formula dry food was analyzed and then he reported that analysis as the “actual analysis” for multiple products and as he said “changed a few numbers here and there”

This is why you will see an identical nutrient level posted for multiple products. For example, the Vit D level in the Fortifier is 175 IU/kg which is the same number reported for the canine dry chicken, beef, lamb, duck and salmon, rabbit, venison, and sardine diets. In other words every dry diet is reported as the same number.

[Peter L]

Aimee, the reason for that is because the base kibble does not change, only the protein source. To get the level of protein in each recipe, you need to analyze that but you don’t need to reanalyze the other base ingredients since they haven’t changed.

[aquariangt]

INGREDIENTS: Chicken Meal, Millet, Chicken Fat, Pumpkin Seed, Yeast Culture, Spray Dried Chicken Liver, Dried Eggs, Suncured Alfalfa Meal, Montmorillonite Clay, Kelp, Cheese Powder, Porcine Plasma, Dried Tomato, Almonds, Dried Chicory Root, Dried Carrot, Dried Apple, Sardine Meal, Egg Shell Meal, Dried Pumpkin, Dried Apricot, Dried Blueberry, Dried Spinach, Dried Broccoli, Dried Cranberry, Parsley, Dried Artichoke, Rosemary, Mixed Tocopherols, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium Bifidium Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Coagulans Fermentation Product, Dried Pineapple Extract, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Extract, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Trichoderma Longibrachtum Fermentation Extract

INGREDIENTS: Duck Meal, Millet, Turkey Meal, Chicken Fat, Salmon Meal, Pumpkin Seed, Yeast Culture, Spray Dried Chicken Liver, Dried Egg Product, Suncured Alfalfa Meal, Montmorillonite Clay, Dried Kelp, Cheese Powder, Spray Dried Porcine Plasma, Dried Tomato, Almonds, Dried Chicory Root, Dried Carrot, Dried Apple, Sardine Meal, Egg Shell Meal, Dried Pumpkin, Dried Apricot, Dried Blueberry, Dried Spinach, Dried Broccoli, Dried Cranberry, Parsley, Dried Artichoke, Rosemary, Mixed Tocopherols, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium Bifidium Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Coagulans Fermentation Product, Dried Pineapple Extract, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Extract, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Trichoderma Longibrachtum Fermentation Extract

Two different NL formulas. Similar, but not exactly the same. You would certainly need to analyze the full formula with the amount that is in each to get a proper analysis on it. Not good business practice not too, imo

[theBCnut]

When you turn chicken into meal, it does NOT have the same nutrient profile as beef meal or any other meal, not even turkey meal.

[Peter L]

theBCnut. exactly what I said.

[aimee]

Peter L,

I understand what you are saying but I disagree. I’d expect that there is a significant difference between the nutrient levels in the protein sources that would impact the final analysis. Chicken meal is limited to muscle skin fat connective tissue while beef meal can contain any part of the bovine. Additionally the AA profile should change between protein sources and levels yet this is not what is reported.

Also the canned diets used to report the same analysis as the dry foods did. This has changed for most of the diets yet the rabbit canned diet still reports the same analysis as the dry products, with a few numbers changed here and there : ), despite having a completely different ingredient profile and processing.

chicken dry:Chicken Meal, Millet, Chicken Fat, Pumpkin Seed, Yeast Culture, Spray Dried Chicken Liver, Dried Eggs, Suncured Alfalfa Meal, Montmorillonite Clay, Kelp, Cheese Powder, Porcine Plasma, Dried Tomato, Almonds, Dried Chicory Root, Dried Carrot, Dried Apple, Sardine Meal, Egg Shell Meal, Dried Pumpkin, Dried Apricot, Dried Blueberry, Dried Spinach, Dried Broccoli, Dried Cranberry, Parsley, Dried Artichoke, Rosemary,…

Rabbit canned: Rabbit, Water Sufficient for Processing, Turkey Liver, Dried Egg Product, Porcine Plasma, Montmorillonite Clay, Cod Liver Oil, Egg Shell Meal, Brewers Dried Yeast, Dried Apple, Dried Apricot, Alfalfa Meal, Dried Artichoke, Dried Blueberry, Dried Broccoli, Dried Carrot, Dried Chicory Root, Dried Cranberry, Dried Kelp, Parsley, Dried Pumpkin, Rosemary, Dried Spinach, Dried Tomato.

For both diets the Vit A is reported as 23, 020, Vit D 175 Iu/kg, Vit E 21.34 IU/kg,thiamine 46.9mg/kg, riboflavin 8.14….etc

The Fortifier analysis also is very similar to the others yet the ingredient line up is very different.

Another other concern I had with this company’s nutrient reporting was the comparison chart for millet with other carbohydrate ingredients. They report all on a dry matter basis except for millet which is on an as fed basis. When comparing, all ingredient should be reported on a dry matter basis. By not doing this they falsely make the millet look lower in carbs/sugar when comparing to other sources than it actually is. Of greater concern is that they chose to use a processed puffed millet cereal entry from the USDA database instead of millet flour which would more correctly reflect what is in the food. I assume they did this to make millet look lower in sugar than the other ingredients they are comparing to.

[Juanita B]

I am feeding my dog canned Nature’s Logic only. Is it necessary to use the food fortifier for canned food when not using kibble. I am trying a high protein low carb diet because of yeast infections from other brands.

[Juanita B]

I am feeding my dog canned Nature’s Logic only. Is it necessary to use the food fortifier for canned food when not using kibble. I am trying a high protein low carb diet because of yeast infections from other brands.

[crazy4cats]

If the canned Nature’s Logic states that it is balanced and complete, you would not need to use any supplements. It is fine on its own. If it states that it is supplemental only, then it is not fine to feed on its own, only should be fed as a topper or meal mixer.

You should probably contact the company to find out if you are not sure.

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