[DieselJunki]

I know Moose is only 4 months right now BUT I’ve been doing some research about hips and large breed dogs. Doing some Googling I’ve read quite a few people recommend giving a joint supplement even if there are no joint problems in their dog, even starting as young as puppies. Now I have been on a Mercola supplement kick because they seem so well put together and are very well talked about here. They pretty much have me sold on the Hip Supplement but I just wanted to check in here and hear about other people’s experiences with hip and joint supplements.

Now correct me if I’m wrong but when looking for a joint supplement that maintains the hips you would be looking for things with: msm, glucosamine, chondroitin, hydraulic acid.

So far the one’s I have looked into are:
Welly Tails
Vet’s Best
K9 Joint Strong
Mercola

These all seemed to have those 4 things I mentioned up there. Some seemed more for arthritic dogs or dogs that already had painful joints and others seemed better at just being hip and joint maintenance.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi DieselJunki –

Glycosaminoglycans (GAGs) are important constituents of cartilage and help to maintain joint function. GAG’s and GAG precursors would include glucosamine, chondroitin and hyaluronic acid. MSM, which is an organic form of the essential mineral sulfur, can be beneficial for joints as well due to the fact that connective tissues require sulfur for maintenance. Cetyl Myristoleate is a supplement that’s recently gained popularity as a joint supplement and has been shown to lubricate joints and maintain function. Whole food supplements that are rich in GAGs are sea cucumber, green lipped mussel, shark cartilage and eggshell membrane. Raw meaty bones are rich in GAGs as well – with trachea, poultry feet and gullet probably being the richest sources. I feel that large/giant breed dogs that are not fed a diet including raw meaty bones on a daily basis should be started on a joint maintenance supplement at a year old (until the dog is a senior or starts to exhibit joint issues the supplement can be given at half the recommended dose). When it comes to joint supplements if you buy supplements made for humans they will be MUCH cheaper per dose. The ingredients used in human supplements are the same as those used in dog supplements so there’s no reason human supplements can’t be used (they’re probably higher quality as well). For a young dog with no joint issues there’s no reason to supplement with every beneficial ingredient under the sun – a capsule of green lipped mussel, shark cartilage, sea cucumber or eggshell membrane or a basic glucosamine/chondroitin supplement will give enough maintenance support to a young dog free of joint issues. For older dogs or dogs that are exhibiting symptoms of arthritis natural anti-inflammatories such as white willow, yucca, boswellia, turmeric/curcumin, tart cherry and supplemental omega 3’s can be beneficial to give in addition to a joint maintenance supplement.

[Anonymous]

Please be careful with supplements as some food and treats have glucosamine, chondroitin, hydraulic acid. Sometimes more is not better and overdoing could have a negative effect.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Cate –

I agree, some supplements are harmful in excess. However, glucosamine, chondroitin and hyaluronic acid are very safe supplements. They can be consumed at many times the daily dose with no ill effects. The amounts in food are very low with most having only around 400 mg. glucosamine per kilogram of food – this equates to a mere 30 or so mg. per cup (just to give you an idea – a 50 lb. dog would have to eat over 30 cups of dog food a day just to get a maintenance dose of glucosamine). Dogs that are eating a natural diet rich in bones, cartilage and sinew would naturally be consuming these nutrients in very high levels (higher than anything in dry dog food). I’ve never heard of a dog “overdosing” on GAG’s.

[DieselJunki]

Thank you for that Hound Dog Mom.

Cate I agree sometimes to much of a good thing can be harmful. I know I wanted to add more Omega 3’s at one point thinking it would help Moose’s dandruff and coat but was advised against it as I was already feeding a food high in Omega 3’s and balanced. Glad I checked before I decided to go ahead and do it and instead was suggested Coconut oil which I now use. I am always careful by nature and usually before feeding him any new supplement I always check in here and do research.

[InkedMarie]

Resurrecting a sorta old thread. HoundDogMom, what can you advise me for Gemma? To recap, she ill be ten in June, is arthritic, holistic vet doesn’t feel any dysplasia. Her front legs look like bulldog legs, if you know what I mean. The vet sys she sees that with dogs that are kenneled a lot. Oh and she has no teeth. I’ve been using the liquid K9 liquid health but not cheap.
Any recommendations for a human liquid or powder I can try? She is not on nothing for pain but does seem lame after a walk. Thanks!

[theBCnut]

I’ve seen the bulldog look on many dogs that are in pain in the rear end. They are shifting their weight forward to aleviate stress on those joints. Dogs with bad hips are only one place where I’ve seen that. It can also be knees, feet, or spine. Does she seem like she has less muscle in the back end compared to what she has in the shoulder area? Good luck in finding what works best for your olg gal!

[InkedMarie]

Patty, it’s hard to tell. I don;t think she ever got much exercise. I admit, when it’s snowy out, I don’t walk the dogs. I have joint issues and am terrified of falling. Today, it was nice out so we drove to a school that has sidewalks around it and walked the dogs. We walked for only 15 minutes or so and she barely made it back. I don’t know if it’s due to the hips or what.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marie –

Liquid and powder supplements are harder to come across with human supplements. I’ve seen a few liquid human joint supplements, but nothing I’ve been overly impressed with and they cost about twice as much per dose as non-liquid supplements. I’d recommend powder-filled capsules when buying human supplements (that’s what I get for my dogs). They’re easy to pull apart and you can just sprinkle the powder into the food – you also don’t have to worry about measuring, just count the capsules.

For older dogs already experiencing arthritis, I think a supplement with both joint maintenance properties (glucosamine, chondroitin, etc.) and anti-inflammatory/pain relief properties (boswellia, yucca, white willow, etc.) will provide the most relief.

Some of my favorite joint supplements:

1) Joint Care Rx – Manufactured by Advance Physician’s Formulas. Available direct from the manufacturer’s website and on Amazon. $25.95 for 120 capsules. Contains: glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, cetyl myristoleate, boswellia, cat’s claw, devil’s claw, grape seed extract and sea cucumber.

2) Wysong Arthegic – Manufactured by Wysong and available on their human supplement website. $32.89 for 90 capsules. Contains: boswellia, sea cucumber, turmeric, ginger, devil’s claw, yucca, red pepper and cetyl myristoleate. For extra support, could be given in addition to Wysong’s Joint Complex which contains cartilage and MSM. Wysong offers quantity discounts.

3) Swanson’s Mobility Essentials – Sold by Swanson Vitamins. $10.99 for 180 capsules. Contains: Vitamin C, Zinc, Manganese, Glucosamine, MSM, Boswellia, Bromelain, Chondroitin, White Willow, Curcumin, Devil’s Claw, Quercetin, Sea Cucumber and Yucca.

Starting on any joint supplement, I’d begin by giving her twice as much as she should get for about 2 – 3 weeks. If you see improvement drop the dosage down to what she should be getting and give the supplement 5 days on/2 days off. Taking two days off per week will help to keep her from building up a tolerance to the effects of the supplement. You can also give extra omega 3’s daily to help with inflammation.

I’m not sure how bad her arthritis in, but you may also want to consider a systematic enzyme supplement such as Wobenzym or Medizym. These are just digestive enzymes but they’re in a specially coated capsule so they aren’t broken down in the stomach. You give them to the dog on an empty stomach and the enzymes help ease pain and inflammation and also boost the immune system.

[InkedMarie]

Thank you, HDM, you’re so smart! Is there a dosage chart? She’s 22pounds. I don’t know how bad her arthritis is, we think she was crated ALOT. Walking her yesterday or 15 min did her in. She is almost ten so it on’t get much better. If I use the systemic enzyme, do I stop using the Mercola digestive enzyme?

[Hound Dog Mom]

I would start out giving her 1/2 the recommended human dose for a couple weeks, then cut her back to 1/4 the recommended human dose. If you use a systematic enzyme you would still want to give enzymes with her meal. The enzymes given with the food would help with digestion the systematic enzyme would be given between meals and help with inflammation. In Europe systematic enzymes are about as common as OTC pain relievers are here in the US.

[InkedMarie]

I feel like maybe I’m asking stupid questions, sorry if I am. I’m looking at the Swansons Mobility essentials. The human dose is 3 capsules twice a day.
Going by what you say above…..I should give her 1 1/2 capsules to start? Do I do it twice a day or do dogs only need it once daily?
Swansons is having a 15% off sale, today only

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marie –

Definitely not a stupid question!

If it was me, just to make things simple, I’d give her 2 capsules daily for the first 2 weeks then go to 1 capsule 5 days a week. If you find the 1 capsule doesn’t seem to be helping her enough, you could go back up to 2 and keep her on 2.

[InkedMarie]

Thanks again! Before I order, I’m going to check the dosing/prices for the others you mentioned. They may be “more expensive” to buy outright but if the dosage is less. I have to keep that in mind.

[InkedMarie]

HMD:

Did you know there is a Medizym for dogs? Here is the info:

Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 1 Tablet
Amount Per Serving
Pancreatin* 26,000 USP-units♦ protease (pancreas) Sus scrofa 100 mg
Papain* 970,000 million USP-units♦ Carica papaya 60 mg
Bromelain* 108 GDU Ananas comosus 45 mg
Trypsin 60,000 USP-units♦ (pancreas) Sus scrofa 24 mg
Chymotrypsin 7,500 USP-units♦ (pancreas) Sus scrofa 1 mg
Rutosid* Sophora japonica 50 mg
*Acetone free extraction process.
♦USP-unit is the measurement of enzyme activity according to the test methods of the United States Pharmacopeia (USP).

Feeding Instructions
Size of Dog Weight of Dog Amount to Feed
Small 13-20 lbs. 1 Tablet Daily
Medium 21-50 lbs. 2 Tablets Daily
Large 51-100 lbs. 3 Tablets Daily

~~~~~According to the chart, my dogs would get two tablets per day, which would double the mg of the ingredients.

Here is the info on the Medizym human:

Adults take 3 Medizym tablets, two times daily, at least 1 hour before meals.
Other Ingredients

Oligo polysaccharides, modified plant cellulose, stearic acid, methacrylic acid copolymer, silica, triethyl citrate, coating blend (maltodextrin, HPMC, triglycerides), natural flavor.

Gluten free, dairy free, no soy allergens.

Contains no artificial colors or preservatives.
Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 3 Tablets
Servings Per Container: 266
Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
Calories 0
Total Carbohydrate <1.0 g <1%**
Sugar <1.0 g <1%**
Protein <1.0 g <1%**
Pancreatin*** 78,000 USP-units♦ protease (pancreas) Sus scrofa 300 mg *
Papain*** 2.9 million USP-units♦ Carica papaya 180 mg *
Bromelain***324 GDU Ananus comosus 135 mg *
Trypsin 180,000 USP-units♦ (pancreas) Sus scrofa 72 mg *
Chymotrypsin 22,500 USP-units♦ (pancreas) Sus scrofa 3 mg *
Rutosid*** Sophora japonica 150 mg *
*Daily Value not established.
**Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet.
***Acetone free extraction process.
♦USP-unit is the measurement of enzyme activity according to the test methods of the United States Pharmacopeia (USP).

According to that, the amounts are for THREE of the human ones. Am I reading this correctly that I'd have to use one more of the human ones to get what two of the fido ones would give? If I am correct, the fido ones are cheaper.

[Hound Dog Mom]

When I’ve gotten Medizym I’ve used the Fido version – I believe the only difference is the flavor of the coating on the tablets. I have a jar of the Fido right here and I’m looking on the Medizym website and the two products are identical.

My bottle of Medizym Fido lists: 100 mg. pancreatin, 60 mg. papain, 45 mg. Bromelain, 24 mg. trypsin, 1 mg chymotrypsin and 50 mg. rutosid – per tablet.

On their website they list the following for their human Medizym: 300 mg. pancreatin, 180 mg. papain, 135 mg. bromelain, 72 mg. trypsin, 3 mg. chymotrypsin and 150 mg. rutosid – per 3 tablets. If you divide all these values listed by three (to get the value per tablet), it’s identical to the Medizym Fido tablets.

On the jar for Medizym Fido the recommended dosages are 1 tablet for small dogs, 2 tablets for medium dogs and 3 tablets for large dogs. The recommended human dosage is 3 tablets.

[InkedMarie]

I’ll get the Medizym for fido then, thanks!

[Mary Lou]

Hi Hound Dog Mom ~

Our 6 1/2 year old Bichon was diagnosed with a luxating patella with a grade of 1/2. The vet sells Dasuquin, but he knew I probably would not want to use it with our guy’s allergies. I think I would like to try the Joint Care RX you mentioned. Do you know how much I would give him at 14 lbs? Is there another supplement that you think may work better with this issue?

Thanks so much!!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Mary Lou –

Sorry I accidentally mis-posted the name – that supplement is called “Joint Power Rx,” for some reason I always get mixed up and call it “Joint Care Rx” lol. Anyways, thought I’d clear that up in case you try to order it you’ll know the real name. I think it would definitely be a good supplement to try. The recommended human dose is 4 capsules per day and it recommends 1 or 2 capsules per day for dogs and cats. Because you’ve got a little guy, I’d say start out with 1 capsule per day. If you see a lot of improvement you may be able to decrease that to 1 capsule every other day. I ordered this supplement for my senior awhile back and I gave him 3 capsules per day (he’s 110 lbs.).

[Mary Lou]

Thank you, Hound Dog Mom ~ I’m going to order it now. I really appreciate all of your knowledge! Sure makes things so much easier! : )

[Shawna]

What is it about Mercola’s product that you don’t support HDM? Just curious.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Shawna –

There aren’t any Mercola products that I don’t support – I think they all look great actually. Concerning the joint supplement I feel that while it’s a good supplement, a human product can be purchased with the same or similar ingredients that would be cheaper per dose . Also, the poster that was inquiring about it has a puppy, I feel that the Mercola joint product contains a lot of ingredients which would be FANTASTIC for an older dog or a dog that already has arthritis, but a bit of an overkill for a young dog with no joint issues. I think for a young healthy dog frequent RMB’s or a basic glucosamine/chondroitin supplement is plenty and a joint product like Mercola’s would be an unnecessary expense.

Concerning Mercola’s overall supplement line – no issues other than price. Coming from someone with large dogs, quality supplements can get VERY expensive. I’m always looking for ways to cut costs and always evaluate supplements on a cost per dose basis. Concerning all “pet” supplements in general (not just Mercola’s), I find that they’re overpriced and the equivalent product can be purchased in “human” form for much cheaper. I’d love to support Dr. Becker’s products but, for example, it would be $105 a month for me to give my three her probiotics and enzymes and it would cost me $10 a month to give my three Swanson’s supplement which has 15 strains of probiotics and 5 digestive enzymes (going off the recommended dosages on both products’ labels). I just don’t have that kind of money for supplements and I’m sure many others don’t either.

[gmcbogger38]

I know this is old, but I have a question. How do you know how to dose human supplements for dogs?

[theBCnut]

Base it on a 100 lbs adult being a full dose. So a 50 lbs dog would be a half dose, and a 25 lbs dog would be a quarter dose.

[gmcbogger38]

Thanks again!

[lovemypets4life]

holistic dog food has a joint mobility powder that works great on my smaller dog breed that has hips problems already he is 7. I just sprinkle some on his food and he feels great now everyday (no more limping/constantly laying down due to hip pain)

[NectarMom]

I know this is a little older thread but I have been using Mercola joint supplement and I have no complaints except it is getting pricy for 4 dogs. I found this and was wondering if it looks just as good as mercola? http://www.springtimeinc.com/product/joint-health-chewables?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=Bing&utm_campaign=Dog_Glucosamine&utm_term=canine%20glucosamine

[theBCnut]

I like Springtime products, but this strikes me as kind of limited. If you are going to give it for a while then move on to something else, then I like it. Which really is what you should do with joint supplements anyway.

[GSDMom]

So glad I found this post. I’d like to start my GSD boy on a joint supplement. The Swanson brand sounds very good. So for an 85 lb. dog what dose would be right? Thanks!

[Hound Dog Mom]

For an 85 lb. dog I’d start right at the human dose.

[GSDMom]

Thank you VERY much Hound Dog Mom. I’m enjoying your posts and knowledge, you’re blowing me away 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

Glad to help. 🙂

If you notice a lot of benefit with the starting dose after about a month, you can scale it back a little for maintenance (you could start by reducing it by about 25% and if you’re still seeing benefit keep it there).

[GSDMom]

Thank you 🙂 So the label says “three capsules two times per day”… so when I scale it back, could I give him two capsules twice a day? Horrible at math, I don’t know how to reduce by 25% with 3 capsules. Thanks!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Yeah, that’s what I’d scale back to. It doesn’t have to be exact.

[GSDMom]

Thanks 🙂 It’s funny, if it was for me, I wouldn’t be so concerned with amounts… but when it’s for my boy, I worry about everything. I’m sure we all do 🙂

[Barbara O]

Have never used anything from Mercola…Our Dane Rescue group using good ole Costco Glucosamine with MSM and chondroitin…or Sams. The first rescues I had took the pills with no problem…Roger, on the other hand spits them out faster than you can say pickle…So…I put them in a whiskey jigger…cover them with water…when they’ve dissolved, I put it in his food. I always wet kibble, never feed it dry…ever try eating crackers without any liquid…that’s how the dog feels…anyhow, he eats it down…before I got smart and did this, I bought the dog liquid….and added it to the feed…As soon as he finishes it, I’ll go back to dissolving it for him…And yes…give the adult dose to the larger dogs…My vet told me to give the danes a generic claritin a day during allergy season…really helps..I use the 24 hour…she said if in 12 hours, their eyes are still bad, to add another one…so the Danes all get allergy pills…because they are rescues they are highly stressed…She said every time we move them, the allergies and any other problems they might have will flare…and allergy pills do help…

[GSDMom]

Just received the Swanson Mobility Essentials and the directions say 3 capsules daily, yet the website said 3 capsules, twice daily. Does anyone else have a bottle of the Swansons?

[Caroline H]

Hi – Hounddog mom!

I have been using mercola’s sups and as you note they are very expensive. I have started using their joint sup but with a 96 lb golden retriever (no not overweight but tall, muscular and big boned 🙂 it is just cost prohibitive. Also there is a new similar product on the market although more expensive I believe but it has significantly more of the active ingredients, called EHP Myristin. My golden is not showing any signs of arthritis with exception of being a bit slower getting up but that may just be old age. They Cetyl Myristoleate Complex per chewable in this product is 500mg compared to the 130mg in the Mercola product so it would actually be cheaper based on how many tabs I would have to give my boy daily. Any thoughts are you familiar with this product or do you know a similar product – human one – that would work equally as well? Also wondering what else I should give him to support his older body now. He gets daily omega 3s from Northwest Naturals and coconut oil (2tsps a day is that enough without adding too many extra calories?) and I feed him small batch raw dog food with some added cruciferous veggies. He also has Mast Cell Tumor cancer (Grade II stage II) but we believe we have removed it all surgically (they don’t ever say they are in remission). The raw dog food says “complete” re other nutrients and it has bone and organ meat but I always wonder if he could use a basic minimum multivitamin. Also how much omega threes should I be giving him? Thanks so much. Sorry for so many questions. I research a lot but there is so much overwhelming info these days. My go to has been Mercola, I like Becker’s approach and trust their USA made formulas but I also have dog insurance for my boy that goes up every year and trying to manage the dog budget is ridiculous 🙂

[pugmomsandy]

I buy Jarrow Tru CMO and Actiflex 4000 horse (there is a dog formula). You can also buy plain eggshell membrane. It’s available at swansonvitamins dot com.

[Mary J]

I am new to this post and have just started giving my dog mobility essentials. My question is I have another dog that seems to be lacking something. He started eating dirt. Would you recomend a vitamin Thank you

[Linda J]

Anyone else using Flexpet ? they also sale flexcin for humans http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004817G3G/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B004817G3G&linkCode=as2&tag=bodybuilweb-20&linkId=YAGEZWTF7A37QZOM

[Carrie P]

Try FidoActive Supplement. This Product is very effectiive for your dog good health. You must try it.

[Carrie P]

FidoActive Supplements is very effective and well proven. You must try it.

[Dog Pack Mom]

I’m not sure what type of joint supplements I will try yet. The glycoflex 3 seems to be causing GI issues with my little pom, Rooster. I think I may try the Joint Power Rx recommended by Hound Dog Mom. I do know I won’t be trying FidoActive ever.

[anonymously]

See blog “More Misuse of Science as Propaganda Tool by Mercola and the AHVMF”
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/

[anonymously]

I recently came upon a post in another forum promoting a natural flea/tick repellent by this businessman. They think it works….makes me cringe.

Below is an excerpt from: http://www.alternet.org/personal-health/four-biggest-quacks-plaguing-america-their-bad-claims-about-science

Mercola has been the subject of a number of Food and Drug Administration warning letters about his activities, including marketing products as providing “exceptional countermeasures” against cancer, heart disease, diabetes, and a host of other illnesses. He also has marketed coconut oil to treat heart disease, Crohn’s disease, and Irritable Bowel Syndrome. Mercola.com also sold an infrared camera to be used as a cancer screening tool.

[InkedMarie]

I’ve never used mercola’s but I am using another natural flea/tick collar, for the second year, with great success.

[Shawna]

That article sounds exactly like the type of negative manipulation this person warns us against in this Tedx video titled “Astroturf and manipulation of media messages | Sharyl Attkisson | TEDxUniversityofNevada” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bYAQ-ZZtEU

[Author]

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