[theBCnut]

Hi Hershy

I’m not HDM and I don’t know how you feel about feeding raw, but tripe(even the canned stuff) has balanced calcium:phosphorus, so it would be a good choice.

[DogFoodie]

OK, I truly do not want to be an alarmist, but I saw that Sully’s Mom just mentioned something about adding water to prevent the possibility of bloat and I searched, without success, for the article Alexandra recently posted about not adding water to kibbles that contain citric acid (due to the increased risk of bloat) during a conversation with HDM. Does anyone else remember that?

My memory stinks.

Edit: Ah ha! Found it!

For a valuable discussion on adding water to food / bloat; go to this page: /dog-food-reviews/orijen-dog-food-adult/. The conversation begins six days ago with JohnandCristos post that begins: “PREVENTION OF BLOATAND TORSION IN DOGS
Bloat and torsion are maladies that strike seemingly without warning in dogs of any age, but most commonly in deep chested breeds. Victims usually have an increased or ravenous appetite several days before onset, and usually show decreased intestinal motility, i.e. constipation. Most animals also have one vomiting episode approximately twelve to twenty-four hours before the onset of bloat.”

[Duke The Boxer]

HDM I was wondering why you did not list dr Tim’s pursuit formula in your list? I emailed dr Tim and he said Pursuit calcium is 1.06 and the Kinesis GF is 1.51%. I also asked him and he said its okay for puppies

[theBCnut]

I’m not HDM, but I can tell you that she emailed companies asking them for info and some didn’t return her email, so that might be why.

[Duke The Boxer]

Dr Tim was extremely friendly and had no problem disclosing any information I need as far as calcium levels or anything. Which leads me to think there is another reason why she didnt put it it o her list.

[Anonymous]

We just recently “adopted” (adopted from the people who bought him from a breeder, as life changes happened) a Saint Berdoodle puppy, Tobi. He is now about 8 months old, we’ve had him for about 6-7 weeks.
He was on Purina Puppy Chow when we got him 😛
Locally we have Feeders Supply pet store, they carry lots of brands, including lots of holistic.
I picked out Professionals Large Breed Puppy.
I have 2 main concerns for feeding Tobi.. Nutrition, I want to feed him the best quality food I can afford. Cost, we are a one income family, with 2 kids and 2 dogs. I cannot afford to pay $50-60 for 25lbs of dog food.

Tobi did great with transitioning to the Professionals, but is now having loose stool (for about a week now). He still eats fine, and acts normal.

Im thinking of trying something different. And after reading several pages on this thread, Im seeing that perhaps I don’t need to be buying “large breed puppy” specifically?

I also have a Aussie mix senior dog (11yrs old), with no age ailments so far. Currently she is on Nature’s Recipe Senior, because it was at Big Lots for $30/25lbs . She is a picky eater, and seems to like it well.

I would love to find something they can both be on eventually? Or even now? Without breaking the bank.. 40-50lb bags would be great!

Currently Tobi is eating about 5 cups a day of the Professionals LBP… that bag is emptying fast!

This fall we plan to switch them to a 50/50 raw/kibble diet (with more research first) once hubby is able to get an extra couple of deer and turkey.

Any suggestions on brands to try, that are at least corn free, but I would prefer grain free, and are not going to kill my budget! 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Duke the Boxer –

Pursuit is not listed because according to Dr. Tim’s website the Pursuit formula is approved for adult maintenance – this is a list of foods appropriate for puppies (all life stages or growth). Dr. Tim has told me that he has used this formula on puppies, but it’s not labeled for puppies so it doesn’t meet the criteria for the list. Kinesis GF is too high in calcium. I agree – Dr. Tim is great and has wonderful customer service.

[Hound Dog Mom]

HI corrielainedd –

Wow, a Saint Berdoodle. I’d never heard of such a dog but I just googled it – pretty neat! Growing large and giant breed puppies need controlled levels of calcium as excess calcium has been linked to developmental orthopedic disease. When puppies are very young they are unable to regulate calcium absorption, they gain this ability around the age of 8 months. So I would say, given the fact that your pup is already 8 months old and through the most rapid phase of growth there’s really no reason to start watching calcium levels now. I would just suggest focusing on getting him on some high quality foods that fall within your budget. Look for a food approved for growth or all life stages – there’s no reason to go with a large breed puppy specific formula. Your adult dog can eat the same food – just be sure to adjust portions accordingly because growth and all life stages foods tend to be more calorie dense. Professional is a decent food for a good price, however it’s manufactured by Diamond who has frequent recalls. Some reasonably priced grain-free foods that you may want to check out: Victor, Earthborn, Hi-Tek Naturals Grain-Free, NutriSource, 4Health (sold at Tractor Supply), Pure Balance Grain-Free (sold at Walmart), Rachel Ray Zero Grain, Authority Grain-Free (sold at Petsmart). Some foods with grains that are budget friendly: Victor, Hi-Tek Naturals, Whole Earth Farms, Pure Balance, Fromm Classics, Healthwise, NutriSource and Natural Life. The only thing I would tell you to be aware of when looking for a cheaper grain-free food is that, unfortunately, many budget friendly grain-free foods are actually worse than grain-inclusive foods at a similar price point. Grain-free doesn’t necessarily mean better and many companies just replace the grains with white potatoes, tapioca or peas which doesn’t make a superior product. Try to maximize protein. I ‘d also recommend picking a few foods and rotating rather than sticking to only one.

[Duke The Boxer]

Okay hound dog mom. Thank you for your response. I was talking to dr Tim and he said it was okay for puppies and it had a pretty low calcium %. I just got in the mail today wellness core puppy formula and I will follow up in a couple weeks to say how duke responds to the food. One question I have is that he has been kind of itchy lately even though he has no flees or ticks; I also saw some scratch marks under his arm from him scratching himself, can the dryness of his skin be because of the chicken based nutro that I have been feeding him?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Certainly, if he has a sensitivity to chicken. You may want to try supplementing with a quality fish oil and coconut oil. If this doesn’t help anything I’d try a chicken-free food and see if that solves the issue. The difficult thing when it comes to sensitivities – if that is what this reaction is being caused by – is that a dog can be sensitive to any ingredient. There are some common culprits (such as chicken, soy, corn, wheat, grains in general, white potatoes, dairy and eggs) but it could also be to any other ingredient he’s eating. If the issue continues keep track of the ingredients in the foods you feed so you can compare ingredient panels and try to eliminate the culprit.

[Duke The Boxer]

Thank you very much hdm. You have been great great help! I hope your doggies are doing good! Oh by the way I asked dr Tim if the pursuit dog food was too much calories for my puppy and he said the pursuit would work just as well as his all life stages formula. I’m not too sure why he didnt label it as all life stages. Could you possibly recomend a 4 star or 4.5 star puppy food that is a little cheaper than wellness core? I want to eventually rotate his food more. I was thinking around the same price range as earthborn holistic but maybe something with a little more protein.

[twinelm]

I am contemplating co owning a very large breed show puppy 130# at maturity with a breeder who happens to work for a very large commercial dog food company. She says all of the other puppies who went to show homes also are feeding that company’s Large Breed Puppy formula (except one who feeds raw) which happens to have a 2.5 star rating here. I feed my rescues 4-Health grain free and have fed Nature’s Variety Instinct prior to that so I have for years had a “thing” for proper nutrition and LOVE LOVE LOVE this website. I am horrified at the thought of feeding that food to the pup for the next year or 18 months. Can you help me figure out what to feed? And maybe convince her it will be okay? Puppy is 3 months old now. Thanks,

[Hound Dog Mom]

I twinelm –

If you scroll back a few pages there’s a link to a pdf file with an extensive list of grain-inclusive, grain-free and raw foods appropriate for large and giant breed growth. Two of the Nature’s Variety Instinct formulas are listed, I didn’t check into the 4Health grain-free line because it’s only rated 3.5 stars but I checked into the grain inclusive line and none of the foods are appropriate for large/giant breed growth. What breed is the puppy?

[Anonymous]

THanks! I will look into those! I definitely don’t want to feed him crap! 😉 I would love to just feed raw all the time, but currently its not doable for us. We are a pretty crunchy family, and rarely buy processed foods.. Dog food being the biggest processed purchase we make. I will keep an eye on the ingredients 🙂

THanks!

[twinelm]

HDM,
He is a Bullmastiff. As fast as they grow, I was surprised at the reported Pro Plan users. I am thinking there may be some disingenuity going on though since the breeder WORKS for them in marketing so she may be getting assurances that yes, they are feeding it when they are not. Thank you SOOO much for doing this research. Storm’s Mom replied to my post in the general comments on puppy food and sent me that link. I am busy cross checking what I can find and afford and how it compares to the breeder’s food (so I can talk to her about it). I don’t want it to be a deal breaker but I am having issues with feeding a puppy something for 18 months I know is pretty much a terrible product.
Lynn

[twinelm]

I did find in my research that the Large Puppy food really isn’t all that bad. There seems to be a lot of inconsistency with many of the others. Recalls, etc. So I guess I will just try it and see.

[sharfie]

Hi HDM-
Should a puppy, who is eating one of the foods on your list, get a vitamin supplement? My 3 year old gets ProBalance added to his food and I was wondering if my 6 month old should be getting it too.

Thank you in advance.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi sharfie –

It’s fine to supplement a dog’s diet with whole foods but I would avoid supplements that contain synthetic vitamins and minerals when feeding a balanced commercial food unless advised to do so by a veterinarian – this is especially critical for puppies because they are more sensitive to vitamin and mineral deficiencies and excesses than adult dogs. I found the website for ProBalance but I can’t locate an ingredients list. Is it a whole food based supplement or does it contain synthetic vitamins and minerals?

[Jessica1]

Hi H.D.M,
Thank you so much for all the information you have given me on grain vs. non grain, mixing etc. I felt lost before I came across your helpful advice. You have made this learning experience a lot less confusing.
I am now giving my boy the topper of Wellness just for puppy, which he loves, and I did start to slowly start the rotation process with Wellness Core grain free, unfortunately he will not eat it. He just does not like it. The Organix he will eat, of course he loves the topper and eats that first and only eats the dry when it’s all that’s left but he will eat it. But for some reason the Wellness Core he will actually spit out! Brat! He is as picky as my daughter! So I am going to try some other grain free brands. I would like to only give him the can but that going to get costly at $2.60 a can. (Still looking into the whole raw thing and building up my courage about that, ha ha) Takoda is now 10 to 11 weeks and at 18.4 lbs, the vet is happy with his weight and growth, I was wondering if you could tell me what you know about Kirkland Cuts. I see that it has 5 stars on this site but one I wasn’t sure it was suitable for large breed puppies and the protein level seemed a little low compared to Wellness puppy but I was hoping you could give me your advice on this. I have been looking for another can food to use as a topper (I don’t want to be locked into just one) do you have a suggestion for me, I’ve been looking at all the 5 stars on this site but I know that puppies requirements are different and they really are not laid out for these big guys. Thank you so much.

[sharfie]

HDM-
Here is a link to the formulation of ProBalance: http://www.propetsupplements.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/ProBalance-Canine-07-125.pdf Is this the information you needed?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Sharfie –

It does have some beneficial ingredients (probiotics, enzymes, EFA’s and glucosamine) but it also has a lot of synthetic vitamins and minerals. Adding additional vitamins and minerals to a balanced commercial food really isn’t necessary and probably won’t provide any benefit to the dog. You couldn’t certainly discuss the supplement with your vet though if you wish to continue with it. Personally if it were me I’d just add plain yogurt or kefir, tinned sardines and digestive enzymes a few days a week or add a digestive supplement with enzymes and probiotics and a quality human-grade fish oil. There are also a lot of whole food based supplements available such as Nature’s Logic All-Food Fortifier, Nupro, Wholistic Canine Complete, Wysong’s Wild Things, Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw Daily Boost, Dogzymes Cornucopia, Dr. Harvey’s Whole Food Based Multi-Vitamin, Udo’s Choice Pet Essentials, Carnivora’s Earth Greens etc. etc. Or you could even mix your own whole food supplement which is a lot cheaper. When I make my whole food supplement I purchase bulk ingredients from Swanson’s or Starwest Botanicals and combine them in the desired proportions. My general recipe is part kelp, 1 part spirulina, 1 part alfalfa, 1 part wheatgrass and 1 part bee pollen – occasionally I’ll sub in something else (chlorella, barley grass, sprouted chia, etc. for one of the other ingredients for variety). I also give things like glandulars, colostrum, etc. It’s nearly impossible to “overdose” on whole foods, the nutrients provided by whole foods are better utilized by the body and whole “superfoods” fill the nutritional gaps by adding phytonutrients, cartenoids, etc. that aren’t found in kibble or and that aren’t provided by synthetic multivitamins.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Jessica –

I’m so glad that I was able to help you 🙂

If you’re using the canned food as only a topper (as in it’s going to be less then 20% of the puppy’s diet) it’s fine to feed a canned food that’s not designed for puppies or that may be a bit too high in calcium. If the canned food was going to be comprising a significant portion of the pup’s diet, then you would want to be sure that the food is either approved for growth or all life stages and that the calcium levels are within the appropriate range. I’ve personally never used Kirkland Cuts and Gravy (I live in the middle of nowhere I’ve never even seen a Costco! lol) but it seems to get good feedback on DFA and it has a 5 star rating. From what I hear it’s very budget friendly so it would definitely be worth a try. Another suggestion I would make if the puppy is being picky is Tripett. Tripett is wonderful for picky eaters (it’s very rare that a do will turn their nose up to tripe) and it’s great for large breed puppies due to tripe’s naturally balanced but low ratio of calcium to phosphorus. It’s not a balanced food, it’s just plain canned green tripe and designed to be a topper only. It’s on the pricey side (I believe around $2.70 per can last time I checked) so a trick I recommend to entice picky eaters and to stretch out the can it to just take a couple spoonfuls (trust me, that’s all it will take) and mash it in up in some warm water to create a “gravy.” Pour this over the kibble and mix it well making sure all the kibble is coated.

[EHubbman]

Also have a little guy with possible sensitivities? Needing some advice here, because I’m at a complete loss.

The whole timeline: 8 weeks, brought Dom home, had him on TOTW Puppy, which he stopped eating. We then switched to NV Rabbit, which he liked but got a smidge bored with, so I started adding different canned toppers. This whole time, his stools were normal and he was doing great.
After the small back of NV Rabbit, we switched to NV LID Turkey, which he did fine with for 2 weeks. After 2 weeks, though, he started getting diarrhea. In those 2 weeks, though, he also went swimming (and drinking) in a lake. He also go to play with his sister who, while she didn’t have fleas biting her, she had fleas on her (owner was in process of getting rid of them, I didn’t know this till later.). With how they were rough housing, I’m sure Dom ate a few fleas along the way.

So he has this diarrhea, and it’s not really going away. His stools softened then loosened. Took him to the vet and she gave him metronidazole (his stools were just soft, no mucus or blood) which did nothing for him. I took out the canned toppers, which also did nothing. I talked to a vet friend, and we talked about a few different things, including getting him on a bland diet to help sort him out. I went out to clean up the dog yard before this, though, and found a rice-sized white …thing? In his stool. Talked to the vet friend again, she said it was tapeworm. We ran into the vet, got Droncit and tylen powder (wormer and antibiotic.) So he was on a bland diet, took the dewormer. Had a solid stool full of odd white stuff (shed worms), Kept him on bland for a week with the antibiotics, and he did great. As soon as I started slowly mixing the NV LID Turkey back in, though, his stools got soft again. He also, though, went swimming in a different lake and probably drank some of that water, too. So I kept with the half and half (bland and kibble) to make sure it wasn’t the lake water upsetting his tummy. It wasn’t, so I went to find different food for him.

The gal I talked to at the local food store is suggesting Zignatture LI Lanb for him, but it’s not on the list of approved foods. What, in your opinion, should I do now? He’s currently back to bland, which I’m really not fond of because he’s not getting the nutrients he needs. This morning’s stool was firm, but slightly orange, and had two odd white things in it. Not sure what they were.

Should I take him to a different vet to get him a full work up, switch foods (and what to?), or…? This is my first time as an adult having a pup, and I’m really just lost now, because nothing seems to be working. I want to make sure and get him the best nutrition I possibly can.
Another friend and I spoke about just taking him full raw which, at this point, if it’s going to work for him, I’m not opposed to doing it but have no idea where to start and how to balance it for him.

Thanks for listening, all, and for any help or advice you have.

[EHubbman]

Should note he’s 4.5 months now, this whole fiasco has been going on for the better half of a month.
Finishing up the tylen powder antibiotic today after 10 days of being on it, he started it when he got his full dose of wormer.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi EHubbman –

I would try to discourage him from drinking lake water – although not highly likely it is possible for dogs to contract giardia or leptospirosis from doing this. Has he been tested for Giardia (giardia can cause yellowish diarrhea) and is he on a quality multi-strain probiotic and digestive enzyme supplement? If not, I would have him tested for giardia (you have to specifically ask for this test, it won’t show up on a regular fecal and make sure your vet sends the sample to a lab – much more accurate than in-house testing) and get him on digestive supplements. You may also want to give an herbal digestive supplement (such as The Honest Kitchen’s Perfect Form) a try – some people have had a lot of success with herbal digestive supplements.

Orange tinged stool can be a sign of small intestine bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) – meaning the intestinal flora is off balance. This is common secondary condition with dogs who have endocrine pancreatic insufficiency (EPI). I would definitely discuss this with your veterinarian.

The Zignature Trout & Salmon formula is appropriate for large breed puppies and would be worth a shot if you want to try Zignaure – I believe the formulas are all fairly similar except for different proteins sources.

Raw would be a great option – especially for a sensitive dog. If this is something you’re willing and able to do that’s wonderful. It will be necessary to do a lot of research prior to embarking on a raw feeding regimen, however. I would recommend checking out dogaware(dot)com and picking up a copy of Steve Brown’s book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet.” You can also check out the recommended raw menus thread in the raw food forum – I have many of my crew’s menus posted.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[EHubbman]

Thank you so much! 🙂 I did forget to mention that he is indeed on probiotics. (Fortiflora, got it from the vet.)

So when he was still eating half bland and half kibble, his meals were:half bland, half kibble, his dose of antibiotics, probiotics, and a small amount of pumpkin to try and firm him up.

I think tomorrow we’re going to go to a different vet and get him a good once over (and a giardia test) to see what. hey have to say. I’ve been wholly unimpressed with my vet through all of this.

Thank you so much again for all of your help! I’ve been so lost with all of this that it’s so nice to have someone so well informed to talk to.

If the second vet does suggest a good change, would you think that the zignature lamb would be OK until I can research raw properly? Or would you go with something else?

(Typing this on mobile, so I apologize if there is anything that doesn’t look quite right!)

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi EHubbman –

I would look into other probiotic supplements. Fortiflora isn’t very good – it’s made by Purina and the first ingredient is “animal digest.” Fortiflora also only has 1 probiotic strain. 🙁 Research has shown that 10+ strains are required for optimal GI health in dogs and the more strains present in your dogs gut, the better able he will be to respond to a variety of stressors. The probiotic formulas I recommend are Swanson’s Soil-Based Organisms (14 strains), Dr. Stephen Langer’s Ultimate 15 Strain Probiotic with FOS, Lee Swanson Signature Ultimate Probiotic Formula (13 strains + FOS), Garden of Life Primal Defense (12 strains) and Mercola (14 strains). Due to the fact that he’s on antibiotics it will be critical for him to receive a variety of strains of supplemental probiotics – antibiotics kill all the bacteria (the good and the bad!). Due to the issues he’s having and the fact that he’s on antibiotics I would also give double the recommended dose of probiotics. The Zignature would be worth a shot

[EHubbman]

Thank you so, so much for all your help with my little guy! I’ll definitely look into those probiotics! On the 15 strand +FOS one, what’s FOS?

I’m going to see how early I can get him into a different vet and get him completely checked out. (I’ll let you know how it goes!)

If I (and Dominic) could give you giant hugs and send yummy goodies to your guys, we so would! Thank you again, you’ve been amazing.

[theBCnut]

FOS is a prebiotic, food for the probiotics.

[Hound Dog Mom]

FOS stands for Fructooligosaccharides. FOS is a prebiotic – food for probiotics.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Oh and good luck – I hope everything goes well and you can get to the bottom of what is going on!

[EHubbman]

Thank you again! (Thanks to you too, Patty!)

[EHubbman]

Not sure if anyone else is looking into probiotics right now, but Swanson’s has Dr. Stephen Langer’s Ultimate 15 Strain Probiotic with FOS buy one get one right now!

[mommyvar]

HDM, have you ever heard of TLC pet foods?

https://www.tlcpetfood.com/ingedients/ingredients.asp?ProductType=DOGFOOD#

Can I get your opinion.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi mommyvar –

I’ve heard of TLC but I’ve never used it and don’t know anyone that has so I can’t give any personal experiences with the product. It looks like a decent food although, at 26%, it’s a little lower in protein than anything I’d feed. Also, at $63.95 for 30 lbs., the price is pretty steep for a grain-inclusive food with only 26% protein. It’s by no means a bad food but I think you could get a much better food for that amount of money.

[mommyvar]

Thank you HDM.

I have an 11 week old St Bernard puppy, and looking for a good food. I am leaning towards Nature’s Variety Instinct Rabbit, but someone had mentioned TLC. I think I will stick with NVI. Thank you.

[Hershy]

Hi, Pattyvaughn,
Thanks for your suggestion, I tried the tripe – Crystal loves it!!

[Hershy]

HDM or anyone else,
This may be a really dumb question, but I’m not clear on how to rotate food for my almost 16 week old puppy and big dogs. Is it best to rotate to another brand after emptying a bag, or have 2 or 3 brands open at a time for rotating daily? I have finally chosen some brands for my pup’s food rotation (fairly reasonably priced 4 & 5 star foods) :

Innova Large Breed Puppy Dry Dog Food
Pro Pac Performance Puppy Premium Puppy Food
Nutri-Source Large Breed Puppy-Chicken and Rice

Does this look like a good list for my pup? It was difficult finding locally,so needed to order from a couple places, since no one had all of what I wanted.
I am topping with tripe.
What is the best way to rotate these? I plan to keep searching for foods I can afford, for changing to after these.
Thanks for your help!

[theBCnut]

Hi Hersy

I can tell you what I do. I have 3 dogs so I go though a 25 lb bag pretty fast, so I have multiple bags open and switch foods daily. But I had to work my dogs up to that. At first I started gradually switching when I got down to a little less than half a bag and I switched every bag. Then I started speeding up transitions to only about 3 days. Then I started switching cold turkey weekly between whatever I had open and adding in a new food when I ran out of one of them. Now, I switch daily. Right now I have 3 different foods open, but over the winter I had 4. When I use up a bag I start something new in the rotation.

[sharfie]

Perhaps I missed this but, how do you determine the amount of a human product to give your dog. For example: Dr. Stephen Langer’s Ultimate 15 Strain Probiotic

Thanks.

[sharfie]

Or fish oil

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Sharfie –

I base the dosage on the assumption that a person is 100 lbs. So a 25 lb. dog should get 1/4 the recommended human dose, a 50 lb. dog should get 1/2 the recommend human dose, a 75 lb. dog should get 3/4 the recommended human dose and dogs 100 lbs. + should get the full human dose. With most supplements (such as probiotics) there’s no real danger of overdose so it’s not critical that you get the dosage exactly right. A good rule of thumb for fish oil is to give enough to provide about 100 mg. combined EPA and DHA per 10 lbs. of body weight.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hersy –

Those look like good foods. When I fed kibble I switched to a new food at the end of each bag. As Patty mentioned, some people prefer to have multiple bags open at once. This would be fine if you wanted to buy really small bags or have multiple dogs because food should be used within 4 weeks of opening (tops). I personally preferred to get through each bag as quickly as possible to ensure maximum freshness so I only had one bag open at a time and only purchased an amount that would take two to three weeks or less to use up. I rotated canned and fresh food toppers daily. You may need to gradually transition from brand to brand at first, but once your dog becomes accustomed to variety you should be able to move from food to food with no transition. There’s really no method to it, just switch frequently.

[Hershy]

Thank you, Patty and HDM, for the food rotation information.. a huge help!

I have an emergency-type question. The vet wants to do cancer testing on my Mother dog, Charlotte, and is at the Vet now waiting for my answer.
A little background:
She has had allergies all her life, but after weaning her last (and final) litter, she had the worst allergy attack I have ever seen on her. I have her on meds to help her with the itching, maintained her thyroid meds, and used ear cleaner for her ears daily. I also changed her to a 5 star food about a month ago (after learning about them), and started her on Dinovite (what is your opinion about Dinovite?). It was time for her comprehensive checkup at the Vet about 2 weeks ago, so while there, so they were fairly alarmed about her allergies, but especially about the swelling in her lymph nodes. They gave her antibiotics, anti fungal meds, and said to continue the ear cleaner and if the lymph nodes don’t go down, she would most likely want to start cancer testing.
That’s where we are today. they didn’t go down enough to notice, so she wants to test. I ask if the lymph nodes could be swollen due to the allergy attack still being active. She said could be, she guessed. Also, she wants to lance her ear to remove a clot that formed from a hematoma (from shaking her head) that stopped bleeding, and clotted before we could drain it.
This all sounds bleak to me. I do not want my dog to undergo cancer treatment. I don’t believe they can cure my dog of cancer, if she has it. The test is $60. Not sure I want to know.
Is there a special diet to help with the immune system of a dog. I’m at a loss. I do not always trust the vet, and debate with them quite frequently about how I want to treat my dogs. I love them all, and want what’s best for them (4).
Please help me know what direction to move on this cancer topic. I am really nervous about it!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Hersy –

Oh my goodness, this is a lot to take in. First of all, I know that a lot of people may not want to know if their dog has cancer (kind of the “what I don’t know can’t hurt me” mentality) but if your vet suspects that your dog has cancer you should have the test done. I’m not sure what kind of budget you’re on but $60 sounds pretty cheap to me. Last time I had my dog in for “tests” (blood work, urinalysis) it ran me over $300. Before you start debating whether or not the dog undergoes treatment for cancer it would just be best to figure out whether or not the dog even has cancer. The earlier cancer is detected the better the prognosis. In the event that she does have cancer (which I sincerely hope is not the case) there will likely be both conventional and alternative treatments that you can consider – you may not be able to cure the condition but you could certainly extend her remaining time and keep her comfortable. Determining an appropriate treatment should be a bridge that you cross when you come to it. There definitely are diets and supplements that can boost the immune system. The less processed the diet it and the lower in carbohydrates, the better it will stave off cancer. Kibble should be avoided if at all possible – when meats are cooked at high temperature (such is the case with rendered meat meals and extruded kibbles) heterocyclic amines and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons can be formed – laboratory experiments have shown HCAs and PAHs to be mutagenic. Tumors feed on glucose (a simple sugar found in most carbohydrates) so carbohydrate levels should be limited. Supplements such as medicinal mushrooms, turmeric and bromelain have been shown to have anti-cancer effects. Colostrum, probiotics and astralaus are great immune boosters. Let us know how everything goes – you and Charlotte will be in my thoughts.

[theBCnut]

If it were my old lady dog, and it is because I am waiting to find out if a growth we just had removed is cancerous, I would want to know. Then you can decide whether or not you want to treat it and how. Or you will know to be vigilant for signs of pain. If my old girl has cancer, we will treat her nutritionally and work at keeping her comfortable. Knowing empowers you, not knowing leaves you feeling helpless.

[Hershy]

Thank you, for getting back to me so quickly. I appreciate your wisdom and advice. You’re right. I need to know. I didn’t mean to make the cost of the test seem like the first consideration. I am on a pretty tight budget, but I will find a way to do what I need to do. I am putting the cart before the horse. I pray she doesn’t have cancer. She’s my special girl! I guess I have to prepare myself for the worst. I called them and told them to go ahead with the test. But I do know, if she does have it, I will not make her undergo a bunch of chemical treatment (as far as I know). I will to the alternative route for treatment, if necessary. And thank you for the information on what things to avoid, and to give. She is going to start on a raw diet as soon as I can get it together! I was making my own for part of last year, but got too busy. Poor Charlotte has been on inferior food for most of her life because I didn’t know any better. I have always switched up foods a little, but usually didn’t end up being to a food that was any better for her. They all claim to be the best. I am so grateful for this site. Why don’t dog food companies and especially VETS! learn about dog nutrition?? And then to recommend SCIENCE DIET!? I just wish I had seen this site 5 years ago,and maybe Charlotte wouldn’t be having these issues now.

I’m picking Charlotte up from the vet this evening, so am hoping for the best.
Thanks, again.

[Hershy]

You’re right, Patty. Thanks! I sure hope your girl will be fine! This cancer thing is an epidemic!
These are knee-jerk reactions, I guess, because I’m afraid of what I might find… my suspicion is have I been poisoning my poor sweet girl all these years with all that bad food?
Thanks, and thanks, again, HDM!

[theBCnut]

It is scarey business, I know that!!

Oh and as for why vets don’t learn much about nutrition, they have to learn about all the health problems and diseases of many, many different species. There are small animals like cats, dogs, 50 different types of birds, guinea pigs, ferrets, mice, hampsters, rats. There are large animals like horses, cows, goats, sheep, llamas. Then there are exotics like zoo animals, I’m not even going there. They would have to go to school for 20 years to learn all of it, so they whittle down what they think is not as important, or what could be a specialty. Human doctors don’t get much nutrition either, and they only have to learn about the diseases of one species, and they have foisted off a lot more to specialties too.

[Duke The Boxer]

Hello hdm can you recomend any other forums for getting formation about training and other information on puppies and later breeds? This is my first puppy as an adult so I want to do it right.

[Author]

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