[Nadine H]

In that case the Nutra Pro would probably b fine. You can also either call or chat with them on their website and they can tell you if that would be a good choice for a puppy. I know it’s so much easier when both can see the same food.

[Tyla M]

I was wondering if anyone knew what the differences are between large breed adult food and large breed puppy food, other than calcium levels. Because I’m looking at the large breed adult from FROMM, and it’s actually less than the large breed puppy food for calcium. Are there other factors I should be focusing on? Thanks!

[pitlove]

Hi Tyla-

Yes there are other differences. Foods designed for maintenance can not support the dietary needs of a growing puppy. Vitamin and mineral levels will be different, calories, protein, fat etc.

[Tyla M]

Interestingly, they have the same practically the same fat, protein, and calories…or off by 1-2%. Calories are off by 9 but I’ll have to look at the vitamin and mineral levels in each to compare. Calcium in one is 1.13 and 1.14 in the other. She doesn’t do well with high protein and the large breed puppy one has 30% fat, while the large breed adult has 28%. A duck and sweet potato one has duck, duck meal, pearled barley, sweet potato, brown rice, oatmeal, white rice, egg, etc, . How do those Ingredients look? The other 2 I was talking about had beef, pork meal, peas, lentils, chickpeas, potatoes, dried tomato pomace, egg…..then all have fruits and veggies stuff after. Clearly 2 are grain free and one is not. I just finished the signature zssentials, and her poop went soft and green for the entire bag. I started weaning her back to her old food and poop looked better but the itching started up more again, convincing me that it is the chicken or the grain …and from what I’ve read it seems it’d be the chicken over the grains. That’s why I’m just stayi away from chicken for now and will see how it goes.

[Nadine H]

I looked at both of those foods. I couldn’t use the large breed puppy because of the lamb. One of my pups can’t tolerate lamb. I contacted cs and they finally recommended the adult that you’re looking at. They sent me the complete vitamin, mineral etc analysis so I could compare them and there is a big different between the two products.I wasn’t comfortable putting two dane pups on the adult food. After reading some of pitloves comments I tried the purina focus large breed puppy and both of my danes are doing very well on this food. Vet did tell me that maybe only 1% might have a food allergy and so many foods include chicken.

[aimee]

Hi Tyla,
Look at the AAFCO nutritional adequacy statement on the bag. Fromm foods that are marketed as Adult often carry an AAFCO statement saying that they are formulated for both growth and maintenance. If both the adult and puppy version of the line you are looking at are formulated for growth that is likely why you don’t see much difference between their “puppy” food and their “adult” food.

[Tyla M]

Thanks for the responses. When I got Luna she was on the Purina Pro Plan Focus large breed puppy food and was scratching and biting like crazy then. At the time I didn’t think it was chixk3n. Switched her to Fromm large breed and loved it, as far as poops and how she looked, but itching continued. It only lessened when I switched to a food with no chicken in it. As soon as I introduced the old fromm back into her diet, she started biting and scratching excessively again. So I’m going to stay away from chicken. I really like fromm, and I like their research and how they provide you will all of the nutritional info on their website so I may try one of their large breed foods next. Just decided between the grain free with all those peas and chickpeas, or swith grains, with rice and sweet potatoes. I’ve read from other people that their dog had loose stools on grain free and she had that on the GF zignature. Not sure if it was too rich with the protein level, or if it what was put in, in place of grains. Man, I’m more worried about what she eats than what I eat!!

[Robyn B]

Hello Hound Dog mom and friends!
Let me start with a thank you for sharing your knowledge, it has been a few years since I’ve had a puppy and boy have things changed! I have an 8 week old Bernese mountain who is so precious and I am committed to doing right by her and I understand that starts with meeting her nutritional needs. I understand that this breed has a tendency to ‘issues’. Her breeder had her on Proplan and I am weaning her off of that to wellness no grain. I noticed she has loose stools yesterday (picked her up four days ago).
Q: I gave her 1/2 diet of wellness, 1/2 her pro plan do you think the transition is too fast? Should I cut back?

Advice appreciated.

[Tyla M]

I would personally do mostly the old food and a tiny amount of the new one and gradually increase it over about 7 days. This seemed to work real well for my pup. Good luck!

[Nadine H]

Many pups can’t tolerate no grain, If she continues with loose stool I would go back to the pro plan and or another with some grain.

[pitlove]

Hi Robyn-

The breeder should have recommended the pup to stay on the current food for 3-4 weeks before switching to another brand. While we do our best to make them feel comfortable and welcome in the home, they can experience stress from a new change of environment which can lead to GI upset as you are experiencing.

Once you have had the pup for 3-4 weeks you can begin a slow transition over 7-10 days to the new food. 75% old food 25% new food for the first few days then 50-50 for the next few days, then 75 new food, 25 old food until the pup is on 100% new food. A 50-50 transition 4 days having the pup is way too much too fast for a young stomach!

Hope this helps

[Tyla M]

Robyn,
In regards to what Nadine said. Luna had loose stools on her first grain free food. I’m not sure if it was caused by the other products put in place of the grains, or if it was too rich for her with the protein. I just switched her to fromms duck and sweet potato and going to see how well this one works. I love fromms and they have good calcium levels for most of their brands for large breed puppies. I started with their regular large brees puppy food but my pup itches with chicken so I had to move on from it.

[Robyn B]

Thank you to Tyla, Pit Love and Nadine for your sage counsel! I am going to take all your advice. 1) put her back to mostly the pro plan 2) gradually wean her onto Core 3) watch her stool to see how she tolerates a no grain and if she needs more grain…I will be back for more advice.

You are all wonderful…Mojo and I thank you! 🐶

[Tyla M]

Just fyi for those of you using Purina pro plan … saw this on Facebook and they also showed a video of the food with worms in it. Be careful and check your pups’ food!

Here is the text that was posted..

Public Service Announcement⚠️⚠️
If you have dogs and are currently using Purina Pro Plan please check your doggies food!!! We currently use the chicken and rice formula. This isn’t a top brand of dog food but not the cheapest either. It’s a decent brand. I saw a post about someone finding worms in their dogs food. Sure enough the first piece we broke in half had a worm in it! Almost every piece after that had worms in it also. Please see pictures and check out for your puppers!!!!!!

[pitlove]

Thanks for the heads up. No issues with our food at home though.

[Tyla M]

No problem! I’m sure it is more of a storage issue, possibly with the store and not the company itself but definitely worth paying attention to. Glad you haven’t had any issues…I watched the video and it was gross! Lol

[Nadine H]

Our food is fine. I really don’t understand how the food could have worms inside the kibble. It’s heated to a very high temp when processed. Someone showed pictures awhile back after finding worms in a Victor food they had.That one had worms in the bag, not inside the kibble.

[Tyla M]

Hey everyone ! This is a random question since this is a large breed group, but I couldn’t find a small breed one. I’ve liked all the advice I’ve read on here when i was searching for the best food for my pup. However, my aunt has asked me for help since she knows I’ve researched food so much. She has 2 small breed pups. She’s had them both on Orijen. One does great, but she feels like the other is sluggish. She wants to switch her food one of them. Since calcium levels aren’t a factor, this opens up a whole new range of food, as I’ve only researched low calcium foods for my pup. If anyone has a small breed dog, or just has a specific brand they like, please share! I use fromms and love it, but she doesn’t have access to it in her area. Thanks so much!!

[anonymous]

My small breeds are doing well on Zignature as a base. I add a little something like scrambled egg or cooked chicken/meat and a splash of warm water. Feed twice a day.
https://www.chewy.com/s?query=zignature&nav-submit-button=

http://zignature.com/?page_id=5&lang=en

[Kim B]

I was having too many problems with the foods I was trying. People kept recommending Purina Pro Plan. I was really against even giving it a shot because over the years Purina has always had low quality foods. People kept telling me that the Pro Plan line was different. Well, I wish I would have tried it sooner. I made the switch to the chicken shredded formula and about two weeks in my issues started to clear up. We are now three bags in and all issues are resolved. I am a believer. Thank you pitlove!

[Nacho K]

Hi guys,
I have had my golden retriever puppy for 2 weeks now, and after reading all the comments in this forum, i decided to feed him with Wellness puppy food. I just realized I have been feeding him with the normal puppy food and not the large breed one. And also, he lost almost a pound in last week. From 16lbs to 15.2lbs. He is 10 weeks old. I am going to buy him the wellness for large breed puppy today. Do you know if the reason was the type of puppy food? Do you recommend any other type of Food?
After spending hours of reading the forums, here is my list but I can’t decide which one:
1. Wellness Dry Large Breed Puppy Food (~$62/30lbs)
2. Purina Pro Plan FOCUS Puppy Lamb and Rice (~$44/$34lbs)
3. Nutri Source Large Breed Puppy (~$55/30lbs)
4. Holistic Complete Large/Giant Breed ($45/15lbs)
5. FROMM Large Breed Puppy (~$60/30lbs)
6. Orijen Large Breed Puppy ($89/25lbs)

I would eliminate #6 just because it’s expensive. Any comment on the rest? Or any additional option I need to consider? Are these all AAFCO approved!?

Thanks

[pitlove]

Hi Nacho-

I do not think that the regular Wellness Puppy formula would have caused him to lose weight. I also would not stress too much over under a lb lost in a week. Use the Purina Body Condition System to evaluate his weight as he grows and ask the breeder/your vet what the proper growth markers for this breed is. Each Golden Retriever will be different but there is a still a breed standard.

Wellness is not a bad food, but yes it is expensive. Can take a look at Pro Plan Large Breed Puppy, Fromm Gold Large Breed Puppy, or NutriSource Large Breed Puppy to see if any of those fit your price range better. I will share with you that my number once choice out of the ones I listed will be Pro Plan because of the dedication to large and giant breed puppy growth and nutrition research Purina has done.

[pitlove]

Kim-

I’m so sorry I did not see your comment sooner. Not sure if you’ll be back to this thread, but I’m so glad to here your success with Pro Plan. I was the same as you believing what I was told about it being a poor quality food, but my dogs health tells me otherwise. It will be 2 years for our household on Pro Plan come the end of Jan, and I’d honestly never feed another brand and never will.

[Nacho K]

Pitlove,

I really appreciate your response.
I am going to try ProPlan and see if the pup likes it or not. My only heaitation is Tayla’s comment about Purina and public service announcement. Is it real or just a negative advertising from compettors?

[pitlove]

Her post was something she saw on Facebook that was likely an isolated incident due to poor storage on the owners fault. I’ve been using Pro Plan for almost 2 years with no issues. Never found bugs or anything. I think you will be very happy with Pro Plan.

Make sure you do a proper 7-10 day transition to the new food at minimum though.

[Rick W]

Well, I’m up to page 3 of page 48…

I have a 4 month old Goldendoodle (F1B if that matters). He seems to be doing just fine on Fromm’s Heartland Large Breed Puppy formula but I haven’t calculated calcium levels yet. Now that it’s almost 5 years later from some of the very informative posts, what’s the most recent thinking/recommendations for kibble? I agree that Fromm’s is pricey so I’m all for cost effectiveness.

Thanks! Enjoying reading the dialogue.

Rick

[Tyla M]

Rick,

I have fed Luna Fromm’s since I got her and I love it. She ended up being allergic to chicken and her poop wasn’t great on grains so I switched to one of their other lines and still love it because it still is low in calcium. Luna is ending up not being such a large breed anymore, but I still feed it because she loves it and I like the ingredients. She is lab but mixed with kelpie, sharpei, chow, and 38% unspecified so she’s more medium size at 8.5 months. She is now on the Fromm’s grain free Hasen Duckenpfeffer …funny name but I like that the first 3 Ingredients are meat and no chicken. After her next bag I may switch the flavor just to have a rotation going. I agree, it is a little expensive but I don’t mind paying for a good, trusted brand. I also add toppers to her food so I can use less kibble and make it last longer. Good luck !! 🙂

[Rick W]

Thanks Tyla. What do you use for a topper?

[Tyrionthebiscuit]

The normal Fromm Gold Large Breed Puppy is a hair cheaper than the Heartland I believe. Canidae also has a large breed formula that is reasonably priced.

[Tyla M]

Rick,
In the morning I use the weruva Hot Dayum flavor because it has no chicken and no carcinageen, as some of their flavors have. I like the consistency of it because it allows me to mix right into the kibble. I tried one similar called Junk in the Trunk, similar consistency but has chicken so Luna itched. Then I tried a tuna one but it was more like a soup so I don’t love that one as much. At night I give her some ground hamburger that I cook in water. Trying to switch it up more and sometimes do an egg, pumpkin, etc. She loves it all! I used to do boiled chicken, as well, but again, she’s allergic so had to stop.

[Jessica J]

Ahhhhh…. so glad I stumbled across this thread. As a store manager of a grooming salon & pet boutique, I literally spend my day surrounded by high quality dog food and have successfully advised countless dog owners. I have spent hours respectfully arguing against the “my vet says Science Diet” is the best food argument. My 8 year old Australian Labradoodle has mostly eaten Acana or the Fromm 4-Star GF line. She’s a finicky one and tends to prefer the Fromm. Well… 3 weeks ago a friend of a friend found a baby Lab on the side of the road. Cold, slightly malnourished, and scared. After confirming that nobody was looking for this sweet little lost soul… I made her a permanent member of my family. In desperation the first night I got her, I brought home a bag of Orijen Puppy kibble and Primal Raw Goats Milk. My only thought being that this little girl needed some good nutrition asap. After a week of thriving but with loose explosive poops, I realized that the Orijen was probably a little too rich for her belly. So I did a little research and checked some numbers and trusted my intuition- and put her on the same Fromm kibble my Doodle eats. She is gaining a perfect 2lbs a day, solid stools, looks great, etc. I have occasionally supplemented with a little Primal Raw Goats Milk. Saw the new vet at my beloved practice today and was chastised and lectured that she should be on a Large Breed Puppy food so that she doesn’t end up a dysplastic disaster at a young age. Then I came home and found this thread as well as confirmed for myself that the numbers hit where I wanted them to. Thank you for the knowledgeable common sense advice and all your wisdom!!

[Tyla M]

Jessica,
Which flavor do your pups eat?! I just spent $80 on a 26 lb. Bag and thought about looking at other high quality brands but I just really like Fromm’s! Yes, if she was mad as far as calcium levels go, then fromms is low !

[Jessica J]

Hey Tyla! I rotate through the flavors with my older dog every time Ibuy a new bag. Right now they’re both eating the Lamb & Lentil and love it! It is costly. My recommendation to a lot of people looking for a good food at a lower price point is the Taste of the Wild. Great value in my

[pitlove]

Hi Jessica-

If you are referring to HoundDogMoms list of appropriate large breed puppy foods, I caution you that due to her being in Vet school it had not been updated in many years. Recipes change in that time and I encourage you to make sure that the numbers you looked up for the calcium/Phos are falling within the recently updated AAFCO guidelines for large breed puppies. This may mean contacting the company directly or asking your Fromm rep for a nutrient analysis of the formula you are using.

[Tyla M]

The Fromm’s website is great for detailed analyses on the different brands. It shows you both calcium levels, as well as the other information. Seems pretty good, but starting to think about if I should try raw? I want hard proof that it is much better for pups and will give a healthier, longer life! Oh the decisions!!

[Winston W]

Hi, I have been lurking in the forum for the last 2.5 years. My boxer could not gain weight. I tried many brands but he still wasn’t growing. After many vet visits and one emergency visit, I finally agreed to the Royal Canine High Energy Gastro and he is finally my chunky monkey w
who turns 3 this month.

I tried to switch him to Origiens bu the smell of the food, the smell of his poop and the frequency, consistency and smell of the poop was unbearable.

I am afraid to try to switch him again.

Any suggestions?

[Tyla M]

Hey Winston,

What is your reasoning for wanting him to switch off of what your pup is on Now? So he doesn’t gain more? What things are you looking for in a food ..Grains vs grain free, any certain proteins, high fat/protein, low, or average? Cost? We can probably suggest some that will fit your needs with that info. Glad your pup gained some weight !! 🙂 orijen is too rich for my pup, also!

[Tyla M]

While awaiting your response I’ll just throw out my favorite food at this point. My lab mix does really well on Fromm’s. She started on their large breed puppy food. Now she is on their 4 star line, which is more expensive, but working well for her. If you go to the Fromm’s website you’ll be able to see all of their different flavors in all of their lines (classic, gold, and 4 star). They differ by classic being mostly chicken based, gold being different proteins, and 4 star has food for all life stages. They have grain and grain free options. I suggest checking them out. Luna is now on the 4 star food called Hasen Duckenpfeffer. It is more expensive than the other 2 lines but she is allergic to chicken and I love that it has 3 meat proteins as the first 3 Ingredients. I prefer to stay away from corn gluten meal, whole grain corn, by products, and the like, which your previous food had. I know it works fine for some dogs so I’m not steering you from it, I’m just stating I personally choose not to feed my dog all of that stuff. Grain free does have carbs for fillers, such as peas and potatoes, but that’s why I like a 3 meat protein as the first 3 Ingredients, because it pushes other ingredients farther down the list. Fromm’s is just one of many great brands. I can help more when I know specifically what you’re looking for.

[Rick W]

Here is where I landed but still tweaking the details. For kibble, we are going to feed Fromm’s Gold Large Breed Puppy until he he gets old enough for the next thing but I’ll probably stay in the Fromm’s line. This is not grain-free. Lots of debate about that issue. I finally was told that you really only need to worry about grain-free if you are seeing your puppy react adversely to grains. So, not worrying about that is certainly beneficial to the wallet. I’m using that savings to put a few Northwest Naturals freeze dried nuggets in his bowl each meal for variety and additional protein since Fromm’s is a little light on protein. I bought a couple cans of the Fromm’s wet food that was large breed appropriate, but his stomach did like even a little bit of it mixed in the kibble. Might try it again, but not worth upsetting his stomach.

That’s it for now. This is a great forum and I have learned a ton…especially the issue with calcium in large breed puppies. Thanks!

[Nadine H]

Started reading about the copper that is added to dog food. There is evidence that copper is stored in the liver and can cause issues Copper Sulfate is the worst form of copper and the cheapest to use. Copper proteinate is the best form and the most expensive for a vendor to use in the dog food that they produce. I’m now looking for a kibble that uses only the copper proteinate. Some will split between the two forms to save money. So far the only food I’ve found with the proteinate is Annamaet. Fromms uses the two forms and Purina uses the sulfate. Just wondered if others have looked into this and what your thought were. Trying to find the perfect food for my danes isn’t possible but the least I can do is find one that doesn’t have the ingredients that I know are bad for them.

[Tyla M]

Rick,
I think you’re off to a great start! Fromm’s is really a great company and you’re right, if your dog does well on grains, there is no need to go grain free! I would still be on the large breed puppy food of theirs, as well, if Luna wasn’t itching from either the grains or the chicken. I will probably stay with fromms for a while. I do want to rotate her eventually and many of their foods have chicken, but for now it’s working. I also add cooked ground beef at dinner to add more protein, as well as egg sometimes. I haven’t tried their wet food yet. Good luck! This forum is awesome, I remember researching on it for months before getting Luna, and continuing while she grows. It’s super helpful !

[Tyla M]

Nadine,
I’ve never researched into this to be honest. I think part of the problem with feeding kibble is there is so much to look into and there’s always going to be something about it that isn’t ideal for our pets . I suppose that is why people end up feeding raw or home cooked. I looked into both and I’m just not ready to try raw yet, and want to research more about making a balanced meal for home cooked. As a result, I ads homemade to her kibble for now. I’m interested to hear if others know more about the copper issue. I’ll be following.

[Rick W]

Well, in full disclosure, I should have said we WILL be using Fromm’s Gold line which is not grain-free. We are finishing up a bag of Fromm’s Heartland Large Breed Puppy which IS grain-free. We will see if he responses differently to that but that’s the direction we will try to go. Sorry for the slightly inaccurate info. In my head we had already switched. 😂

[Nadine H]

The more dog I read about what’s in dog food and how misleading a label can be the more I understand why people go to raw or home cooked. I won’t do raw but I have considered home cooked. The only thing is I have two great danes and concerned about the amount of food they would need. Also getting the right balance of vitamins, monerals etc.

[Tyla M]

Rick,

Good luck! Feeding grains is perfectly fine for pups who have no issues with them! Some pups actually do better on grains than grain free, due to an intolerance to peas and or potatoes.

[Tyla M]

Nadine,
I understand completely. I’ve actually been dealing with this as well. I joined a bunch of raw food groups on Facebook to see if I could try it…don’t think I’m ready for that. So theb I joined some home cooked ones. Are you on Facebook? The groups I’m in are run by people who have done extensive research and can give you the tools needed to balance the food out. The total amount of food in a day would be 2.5-3% of your dogs ideal weight. That’ll tell you how many pounds they would need a day. I’ve slowly started adding more and more home cooked foods to Luna’s kibble, with the hopes to one day do half and half or fully home cooked. If you are on Facebook, I can recommend the group’s I’m in to you, they have starter files with tons of info, and then people ask questions for help for their personal pups.

[Nadine H]

Tyla I’m on Facebook alot, more then I should be I guess. Anyway if you could let me know which groups you’re in I would really appreciate it! I would love to see how others are doing it and I think even just feeding one home cooked meal a day along with kibble would be a really good thing if I didn’t go totally all kibble free.

[Tyla M]

Nadine,

Just wait till you join these groups…you’ll never get off now !! Haha The big homemade dog food one I’m in is called Home cooked diets for dogs. I also like dog food nerds of Facebook, but that’s talk about any dog food, including kibbles. When you join the Home cooked one, read through the tons of files. I joined about a week ago, read them all, read through people’s posts and answers to get a good grasp, and just reread some files and tool notes down. Now I just posted a question about splitting it up to one kibble meal a day and one Home cooked for now. Come join, it’s helpful !

[Nadine H]

Thanks so much Tyla, I’m going over there to check it out. This will be very helpful.

[pitlove]

Hi Nadine-

Regarding your concerns about Copper sulfate. Who is the source dishing out this information? And what are their credentials? Are there peer reviewed papers published about this “issue”? Have studies been done? What proof, real proof is there of this? Those are the questions I’d be asking. Anyone can write a blog and have an opinion on the internet. I see misinformation posted on this site and Facebook etc all the time.

[Author]

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