[Molly F]

I’m also going to try giving her baths with an oatmeal based shampoo, but I’m hoping the fish based food will help with the itchiness and slight dandruff.

[A]

@molly

Oatmeal shampoo can also click pores just so you are away.
Is she itching her ears paws etc? Could be carb overload that’s feeding yeast.
A great shampoo for itching is zymox it’s 8.99 on chewy, it’s a enzymatic shampoo. It will eat away the yeast that’s building up. They also have a conditioner you can dilute with water and spray onto your dog.

Does her food have pea protein or potato protein in it?

[A]

Sorry stupid auto correct. Clog pores. Just so you are aware.

[Molly F]

Her current food has brewer’s rice, whole grain corn, whole grain wheat, poultry by-product mral, corn gluten meal, soybean meal, so I’m wondering if any of those are feeding the yeast. Her itchies are paws, groin and elbows, and somewhat ears.
The food I was going to switch her to has peas and potatoes…..

[anonymous]

It sounds like a nice gentle shampoo that might work well in conjunction with treatment prescribed by a veterinarian that has examined the dog and diagnosed the dog’s condition.
However, I am not impressed with the ingredients: https://www.zymox.com/zymox-shampoo-itchy-inflamed-skin

I prefer Malaseb and Veterinary Formula Antiseptic & Antifungal Shampoo, both available at chewy.com for my dog that is stable (4 years) and has environmental allergies.
We go to the dermatologist once a year.
PS: Frequent bathing is just a small part of her treatment plan. Alone it didn’t do much to help her condition. She eats a variety of things now but does best on Nutrisca Salmon and Chickpea.

[Molly F]

It’s also very possible the Nexguard is causing dry skin and itching….

[anonymous]

“It’s also very possible the Nexguard is causing dry skin and itching….”

Well, ask the vet, get a diagnosis and then evaluate your treatment options. You can’t assume anything.

[A]

We bought a shampoo from our vet for itchiness and it caused a breakout on my hands after using it. Needless to say $20 something wasted, I will have to check what the brand name is. Never used it again on my dogs.

I don’t personally feed it but know many have great success with canidae lamb and rice or the all life stages.
It’s at a affordable cost, it’s higher calories per cup so you aren’t feeding as much and the fat isn’t extremely high like many foods.
Brown rice is also a very slow burning carb so it won’t convert to sugar as quickly as potatoes and such.

[InkedMarie]

Molly, I don’t know what the food is but those ingredients are not ones found in high quality foods.

[Molly F]

Yeah, I know, hence the switch to Earthborn.

[pitlove]

Hi again Molly-

Sorry you’re still having some issues with your pup. Just to correct some inaccurate info, carbs do not feed yeast. Malassezia yeast is the yeast found on the skin and the most common yeast dogs get. Malassezia is a fat loving yeast, however not dietary fats. Oils on the skin sort of fats. Eliminating or decreasing grains will have no effect on the yeast unless she is indeed having an allergic reaction to the grains. Then and only then will removing them from her diet help. Reason being is that yeast is symptomatic of something else that is surpressing the immune system (such as allergies) and causing the once in control population of yeast to become out of control because the immune system is too weak to control it.

While searching for another food, you can not simply just switch randomly without making sure the food you’re feeding is safe for a LBP. Before feeding Coastal Catch, I would email EarthBorn and ask for an up to date nutrient analysis and run the Ca and Phos through the calcium calculator on here. Remember, Hound Dog Mom’s list is over 2 years old and companies can change their formulas in that time frame.

[A]

Isn’t it sugar feeds yeast. And potatoes, sweet potatoes convert to sugar quickly which feeds yeast. If I miss worded earlier I apologize.

[Molly F]

Thanks for the info on yeast, pitluv!
I just started the switch, so I’ll be sure to write them tonight.

[pitlove]

Hi Anja-

No, that is a myth. Not that carbs break down into sugar, because they do, but that the sugar feeds yeast. As I said earlier Malassezia is a fat loving yeast, specifically the oils on the skin.

Molly- You’re welcome! Best of luck with the new food.

Oh also, take a look at Malaseb shampoo to aid in killing the excess yeast. It has really helped my pitbull during the summer months when his environmental allergies start flaring up. I bathe him twice a week when it’s really bad.

[Nick B]

Hello, Margo’s dad here again. Our vet recommended Hill Science for a food but said that is the only one that he really knows. We were at the store and read a lot of good things about Advantage that is made by GNC. Is this something worth trying for a 9 month golden?

Thanks!

[pitlove]

Hi Nick-

I’m not familiar with Advantage. Could you mean Authority?

A 9 months old your pup’s ability to regulate calcium is starting to mature. She still is not fully able to regulate it, but she is past the critical growth period at least. I’d still recommend finding out the average or MAX calcium and phosphorus and using the calcium calculator on this site to make sure it’s safe to feed. If the company is difficult to contact or unwilling to give you a nutrient analysis on their large breed puppy formula, I’d go with another food.

[Nick B]

@pitluv Yes it was Authority. I will look into the Calcium they state.

Thanks.

[Molly F]

I got a response from Earthborn (less than 24 hrs, nice); they have the minimums listed on the bag and online and the formulas can vary by .2%, but it’s usually at the minimum. So that put Coastal Catch at 3.2-3.8(at the very highest, not likely), which is still a safe range for a LBP. Also, Freya is 8.1mo, so I feel like even the high range is probably safe for her.

[pitlove]

I agree Molly, she’s at the point where her ability to regulate calcium is beginning to mature. It is still recommeneded to keep them on a LBP safe food, but they are past the critical growth period so like you said, it’s probably still safe.

[Molly F]

And I don’t think those numbers really put it out of LBP range, though, does it?

[pitlove]

Were those numbers the Ca/calorie ratio? If so I’d say 3.8g/1000kcals is kinda high. I also do not like that they still made you guess at the actual numbers. They should be willing to give you a nutrient analysis.

[Molly F]

She did say that on an as fed basis, they would be at the minimum, which is the 3.2.

[Molly F]

Does anybody know a way to actually calculate how many calories a puppy needs? All I seem to find online either doesn’t go old enough or is for “ideal weight”, probably adult dogs. I know about checking BCS, but that’s a bit subjective.
I also have a homemade dog food book that gives a recipe for puppy food that has a nice growth chart, in about three month blocks, with how much of that recipe they should eat, so I could use that to figure calories.
If I’m using an “all life stages” food, is there any math to just adjust the serving recommended on the bag? I don’t know who closely to follow those numbers anyway since my last dog, the bag said 4-5cups and he was healthy weight on 2. I get that puppies have different needs though, what with all the growing 🙂

[Renee B]

You might check out http://www.pawtree.com/arkansaspets and do a quick pet profile. They offer great natural dog foods, treats, supplements based on your dogs needs. They may have what your looking for.

[Carol P]

Hi, I’m bringing home a Golden puppy in 2 weeks and he is eating Acana Heritage Fresh water Fish. I don’t see any Acanas in the large breed puppy list and was wondering if it’s not good for a large breed puppy or if it is too new to have made the list. It says “all life stages” on the bag. I plugged in the numbers in the calculator, 1% calcium, .8 phosphorus, and 3475 calories. It comes to 2.9 g per 1000kcal and Ca to P ratio = 1.3-1. It looks like it fits into the levels for large breed puppies. I have a call into Acana to make sure I have the max levels and not min., with nothing changing does this food work for a large breed puppy?

One other question if it doesn’t work out, what else can I feed him that doesn’t have chicken or white potatoes? Chicken because my other dog is allergic to it, and white potatoes per the breeder. I’d prefer grain free if possible.

Thanks in advance.

[Carol P]

Update….I just received a call back from Acana and the max values are .3 higher for calcium and phosphorus. Putting in 1.3% calcium, 1.1% phosphorus gives me 3.7g per 1000kcal, and Ca to P ratio = 1.2 to 1. The top levels according to the list is 3.5g per 1000kcal. How bad is this for large breed puppies and/or should I switch his food after he’s been with us a month?

[pitlove]

I would switch to something else.

[MomOfThor]

Hi all!
i’m super new to this forum and so far I love it!!! I’m getting my black lab puppy this Saturday and the info on food is super confusing to me. Raw food, kibble, mix…can’t really decide. I was going with the raw but having a 20 months old son around raw eating dog kind of scares me. So we decided to feed him kibble for the first few months and then switch him to raw. He’s on Puppy Chow at the breeder right now and I’m switching him from that as soon as I get him. I did but a bag of Puppy Chow to make the transition easier for him by mixing it with the new food, just can’t decide what food to put him on. I live in Canada and there is a wide variety of good high end quality food, just can’t make up my mind. Help this new momma pleeeease!!! Thank you!!!

[anonymous]

Check out these sites before you make your decision:
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/
https://www.mspca.org/angell_services/choosing-the-right-diet-for-your-pet/ (excerpt below)
Raw diets are another popular option on the market today. Studies have shown that 20-35% of raw poultry and 80% of raw food dog diets tested contained Salmonella. This poses a health risk for your pet, but also for humans. This is especially true for children or immunocompromised adults, whether exposed to the raw food directly, or the feces of the pet eating the raw food. Additionally, there is increased risk of other bacterial infections and parasitic diseases when feeding raw diets. And the bottom line is there is no reason to believe raw food is healthier than cooked food.

The numerous dietary choices for your pet can be daunting but if you pick an AAFCO approved food made by a manufacturer with a long track record, odds are good that you will find a suitable food for your pet. Most of the large pet food companies employ full time veterinary nutritionists and have very high quality control standards. That is not to say that a small company cannot produce nutritious and high quality food, but you should check out their website if it’s a company that is not familiar to you. Take the time to research, and ask your veterinarian if you have specific questions or concerns.

[MomOfThor]

So I chose Holistic Select Large Breed Puppy Lamb and Oatmeal Formula. Was going to go with Orijen but they have really high protein of 38%, that’s why I chose Holistic, their protein is 23% and 1.1% phosphorus.

[goldenstar]

MomOfThor…I copied this information from pitluv’s post on page 41 about Holistic Select Large breed puppy food. I think the calcium and calcium phosphorus ratio is too high for large breed puppy food.

From pitluv’s post:
I got an email back from Holistic Select regarding the Large & Giant Breed Puppy formula. When I used the numbers they gave me and put them into the calculator tool on here this is what I got
Calcium = 6.8 g per 1000 kcal
Ca to P ratio = 1.8 to 1
WAY too high…

Unless the ingredients have changed since that post.

[MomOfThor]

I sent them an email and will update the info when they get back to me.

• This reply was modified 8 years ago by MomOfThor.

[MomOfThor]

Calcium = 6.3 g per 1000 kcal
Ca to P ratio = 1.8 to 1 is what I got 5 min ago from the manufacturer, so not much difference

[goldenstar]

I think the calcium is too high.
Maybe someone else can help on this.

[Molly F]

The Ca/P ratio is important, but I think mostly we are looking for a food that’s 3-4g Ca/1000 kcal.
Also, the “too high protein” thing, I think, has been proven to not actually be the issue; it’s more about too much calcium.

[MomOfThor]

This food has 4 stars on this forum and on the label it says 1.1% calcium and 0.8% phosphorus. The manufacturer says that as fed percentage for Calcium is 2.21% and the Phosphorous is 1.25%. And l haven’t seen any labels from other manufacturers that have less calcium and phosphorus than this one which means that the % per sercing is higher than stated everywhere. I was going with Acana or Orijen but their protein is about 40% give or take and also the stated cal/p % is not different than Holistic.

[MomOfThor]

For example even Welness puppy had 1.3% calcium and 1.0% phosphorus on the label which seems more than Holistic so we can’t really know for sure.

[goldenstar]

Holistic Select LBP is listed as 4 stars for medium and small breeds only not for large breed puppies.
You did the numbers yourself with the calculator and the calcium number that you got was 6.3 g per 1000 calories and that is too high.
I wanted to try Holistic Select also, but based on the numbers, I decided against it.

[MomOfThor]

Wellness core large breed puppy grain free has this ratio Calcium = 5.6 g per 1000 kcal
Ca to P ratio = 1.7 to 1 @ Calcium (Max)2.00% Phosphorus (Max)1.15% which is lower than HS but still more than recommended. So really is there a proper food with the right ratio out there?

[pitlove]

Hi MomOfThor-

Holistic Select Large Breed Puppy is not appropriate for a large breed puppy as goldenstar mentioned. When I sent them a follow up email asking why their formulations were not in line with current research regarding nutrition for growing large and giant breeds from the last 20 years, their answer was that they are in the process of reformulating their LBP line to be more in line with up to date research. Not sure when that new formula is due out as she did not tell me.

Regarding what to look for in a LBP food. The calcium/phos ratio and the calcium/calorie ratio are what matters. Protein has long since been proven to be a non factor for large and giant breed growth. Unless the company provides (usually on their website) a nutrient analysis that provides the average or MAX Ca and Phos levels, you will need to do what I do and email the company directly requesting the info. The calcium calculator on this site will not work without the average or MAX Ca and Phos. If the company is unwilling to provide you with those numbers or does not understand what you are asking for, run far far away from that food.

You should be a looking for a food that has a ca/phos ratio between 1.1:1-1.5:1 and a ca/kcal ratio of 3g/1000kcals. Slightly higher or lower is not bad, but deviating too far from that is going to cause a problem. It is best to use a food with the least energy density during growth.

Star rating is of little importance especially when the food is as off the mark as both you mentioned in your posts.

• This reply was modified 8 years ago by pitlove.

[MomOfThor]

So please can you advise me what food to take as my lab puppy arrives this Saturday so l can still exchange the bag of Holistic I bought for him. I’m in Canada. Thank you!!!

[pitlove]

I’m not sure what is available to you in Canada, plus you won’t want to switch his food for at least a couple of weeks. GI upset can easily be brought on with a food change while a puppy is adjusting to their new environment.

Does chewy.com ship to Canada?

[MomOfThor]

I did buy a bag od his current food so l can switch him slowly. Chewy does not ship outside USA

[MomOfThor]

This is what I got from Welness:
Complete Health Puppy Deboned Chicken, Oatmeal & Salmon Meal Recipe:
Calories: 450Kcal per 8oz cup or 3,911Kcal per Kg
Protein: As Fed: 29.09% Dry Matter: 21.62%
Fat: As Fed: 17.51% Dry Matter: 19.03%
Carb: As Fed: 36.72% Dry Matter: 39.91%
Fiber: As Fed: 2.78% Dry Matter: 3.02%
Ash: As Fed: 6.63% Dry Matter: 7.20%
Ca: As Fed: 1.66% Dry Matter: 1.80%
Phos: As Fed: 1.17% Dry Matter: 1.27%
Mag: As Fed: 0.17% Dry Matter: 0.18%
Sod: As Fed: 0.23% Dry Matter: 0.25%

Calcium = 4.2 g per 1000 kcal
Ca to P ratio = 1.4 to 1

[pitlove]

The numbers you need to request from the company are the AVERAGE or MAX levels of calcium and phosphorus. As fed and Dry Matter will not yield accurate data from the calcium calculator as stated in the article.

[MomOfThor]

Oh I did ask for max or average, this is what they replied back.

[pitlove]

I’d pass on the food then, if they do not understand what you are asking for. I would also try another company besides WellPet which makes both Holistic Select and Wellness.

[mary s]

Minsway, I wanted to say how sorry I am for the loss of your two dogs….I pray you will find comfort and some peace surrounding their loss.

[mary s]

pitluv, what do you consider slightly higher or lower please?
” You should be a looking for a food that has a ca/phos ratio between 1.1:1-1.5:1 and a ca/kcal ratio of 3g/1000kcals. Slightly higher or lower is not bad, but deviating too far from that is going to cause a problem. It is best to use a food with the least energy density during growth.”
The food I am feeding comes out 3.3g/1000, and 1.2:1.0 using the calculator with maximum Ca and P levels per company. Another in rotation is 3.7g/1000 with same ratio.

[pitlove]

I would avoid the food that is 3.7g/1000

[Author]

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