[spaniel39]

Hi, mom <g>
You might remember I have a Big Komondor Girl, Sophie, now 120 lean pounds and
16 Months old. I’m the one that discovered the calcium miss labeling on Canine Caviar.
Anyway, Sophie is on Nutrisource Large Breed Lamb and she loves the Fromm Beef
(Frittata) I’m mixing in with it.
Anyway, I trust your judgement of course, But I thought even as full grown adults
(with the komondor, 18-24 months), still had to watch the calcium levels.
Not taken in by industry advertising, but of course all the “adult” large breed formulas
marketed by companies
Anyway, so once full grown, doesn’t matter? Calcium levels over 2 % and more ok.
Good to know. I supplement with green beens, some fruit (she can smell a blueberry, her
favorite, a mile away, stole my banana from the counter today, etc etc etc)
But for her staple dry kibble, would be nice to rotate inexpensively (for me, under
$55 for a 25 pound bag), and if calcium levels not an issue in a future, more choices
of course
Thanks
Michael (and Samuel the Spaniel and Sophie)!

[Qi X]

Thanks a lot! I think i am going to get the Wellness CORE Grain Free Puppy Formula Dry Dog Food! Looks like that is the only one for puppy on the list

[Trout-lily]

Thank you everyone for your advice on where to buy dog food. I’m debating about wellness, fromm, natures variety, or earth born holistic. I have issues with not knowing where the food is coming from as my parents just spent thousands of dollars from salmonella poisoning with their (our) beloved black lab. The vet hospital claimed it was sweet potato treats from china that most likely caused the issue. Luckily she is fully rehabbed but it has caused us to be cautious about where our dog products are coming from. Anyone have recommendations for a trusted puppy brand off of the ‘large breed puppy food list’ for my 14 week old Berner?

Also, do I stop watching the calcium levels after the pup is fully grown? I want to say Berners reach maturity after 2 years but that seems like an awful long time to be on puppy food.

Thank you!

[aquariangt]

Erin-I don’t do large breeds, but all 4 of the companies you mentioned are (in general) safe brands to feed. Of course no one is immune to a recall, but they are all solid companies. I use both Fromm (4 star GF only, the gold and 4star grain inclusive can be a bit low in protein) and Earthborn in my rotations, and have used the other two as well-though in my opinion both have become so big that they are a bit overpriced.

[Trout-lily]

Thank you aquariangt for your response. I do have another question for you or anyone else that is listening; what is the big deal about being grain free? I do know that Berners are seldom allergic to soy and my parents lab is definitely allergic to wheat and corn. However is there any other benefit for going grain free other than avoiding allergies?

Thanks!

[aquariangt]

Grains are inflammatory, and to my understanding, makes a bigger difference in large breeds than in smaller ones-in addition to being a common allergy (the whole group of grains in general)

I don’t shy away from good grains in my dog food-brown rice, oatmeal, barley, etc… as none of mine have issues with it. In fact, one of mine may be reacting to peas (still testing this) so I would be leaning towards grain inclusive more anyway.

My comment on Fromm’s 4star is because the grain inclusive are all lower in protein, and I try to stay around 30%, and am pushing even higher now that I’m down to 2 as of this month, as the third couldn’t handle the higher 35% and higher proteins.

[InkedMarie]

Erin,
I have no problem with grain inclusive foods but for me, it depends on the food. Some are grain heavy, others like Nature’s Logic and Farmina low grain, don’t have much for grains. It depends on your dog.

Basically, all grain frees are not alike and not all grain inclusives are not alike. It depends on the individual foods. There are some grain frees I won’t feed but there are grain inclusives I have and will feed.

[LabOwner]

Are Wellness Complete Health Chicken Brown Rice and Salmon Meal Large Breed Puppy Food or lue Buffalo Wilderness Chicken Large Breed Puppy Food good options for a lab puppy?

• This reply was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by LabOwner.

[Hound Dog Mom]

LabOwner –

https://docs.google.com/a/dogfoodadvisor.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk/edit?pli=1

[LabOwner]

Thanks Hound. I see Wellness Core Puppy is on there. Will that be okay even if it is not a large breed puppy formula?

[LabOwner]

Please ignore the last post. Thanks for your help today HDM!

[Trout-lily]

Thank you all for your advice on brands and grains. I wish there was a way to get a keyword search to this forum so I could see if anyone has previously asked the same questions I post here, but unfortunately I have another one here it is:

What is the consensus of Dr. Tim’s kinesis as far as issues with those who serve it? I am looking at the all stages with grains. I noticed it is a recommended food on the google docs and it has five stars, but it’s always good to hear about results. I noticed the grain free was taken off of the new list, did they change their recipe?

Thank you!

[latis2270]

Hi Hound Dog Mom,

First of all, thank you so much for your dedication to, and excellent work in filling in some of the gaps in the grey area that is proper giant breed puppy nutrition. Finding this forum has eased a lot of the stress I’ve accumulated in looking for the right food for my puppy after hearing/reading conflicting opinions of what he should be eating from our vet, Saint blogs and non-giant puppy info sources…

I have a lovely 9 month old fixed male Saint Bernard. He is hovering around 85 pounds and growing fast with lots of energy, the appetite of a lion and a very healthy, lean body shape. Unfortunately he is having problems with digestion of his current food as his stool is consistently soft/diarrhea on the tail end of going to the bathroom (it always starts out solid). He is currently on Wellness Large Breed puppy formula and after reading your article and lots of reviews of other people having issues I see that it’s time to switch.

After researching some of the food on your list, I have my eye on the Earthborn Holistic brand, possibly the coastal catch variety. I do have a couple of questions and wonder if you might have an opinion-

1) I have read several of your responses for people asking about portions to feed a puppy on an adult food and understand, of course, that it is based on individual needs. But I am trying to ballpark where to start him based on his age as an older puppy with higher energy levels and a good amount of activity. His appetite is monstrous as well, I feel like he could eat way more than what we give him but of course I am respecting a healthy diet and trying to maintain a safe weight for his growth. We feed him a bit more than what the Wellness bag recommends because he seems so hungry and it has not affected his weight at all. Should I start him off at 1 1/2 of what the chart says? Not sure if 2 times the amount is too much as he’s not such a small puppy anymore….

2) Although your list has the EH varieties listed as 5 on DFA, the DFA website itself lists them at 4. I double checked to see that the calcium percentage is still the same as listed on your chart, and it is. But do you think the 4 score is a negative reflection on the brand if it dropped from a 5 to a 4?

Thanks so much for all of your help!

[Lisa K]

I was considering Wellness Large Breed puppy food for my lab puppy. I see Wellness Core: Puppy make it to the list, but not Wellness Large Breed Puppy. Wondering which one to purchase. On a side note, my friend’s ( who own’s my pup’s bro) vet told her that the lab is not considered a large breed. WE are really struggling over choosing which food is best for them. Sny help would be appreciated. Very confusing.

[aquariangt]

Definitely go with something on the list, as they have the appropriate calcium levels.

It won’t hurt the lab to go large breed even if they end up small, so it’s better to be safe than sorry. They can still get the same bone/joint/hip issues that effect the giants

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Latis2270 –

Earthborn Coastal Catch has about 15% more calories than Wellness LBP so if his weight is good now I’d feed him about 15% less than what you’re currently feeding and adjust from there.

When the list was created Earthborn was rated 5 stars, the rating has dropped to 4.5 stars. I’m holding off on making any updates to the list because there are going to be some changes in the near future.

As far as I know, nothing has changed with the calcium levels.

For the soft stools you may want to try supplementing his diet with probiotics.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Lisa K –

I’ve heard variation over what mature weight constitutes a dog as being classified as a large breed – some say 50 lbs. or more at maturity and others say 60 lbs. or more at maturity. The AKC breed standard states that labs range from 55 lbs. to 75 lbs. on average. Either way, labs are definitely a large breed and should be fed accordingly. Labs are highly prone to orthopedic conditions such as hip dysplasia so it’s crucial that they receive a proper diet during growth.

[2manycats]

I have 6 month old English Mastiff/Saint Bernard mix (fixed). She had stomach issues and is currently on Hill’s I/D from my vet. I want to switch her back to a Giant Breed pet food but unsure which one to put her on. She was on Precise Giant Breed when her issues started. Has anyone feed their Giant Breed puppy the Pet Valu Large Breed puppy? Any suggestions on puppy food for my little …. I mean big girl .. she is 60lbs. Thanks.

[spaniel39]

I’ve had great luck with Nutrisource Large breed Puppy Lamb and also the adult formula
I didn’t realize (years ago) that lamb is relatively easy to digest by pups, even more so
than chicken/pork/beef

[spaniel39]

Hey
HDM
I’m not sure my last comment/question went through. please advise
I’m well familiar with the leve of Phosphorous/Calcium levels of growing large
breed pups . My baby Sophie the Komondor is now 120lbs at 16 months;
At some point, I want to switch her food, but as an adult (aroun d 20-24 months)
do I still need to check calcium levels or can she eat just about any adult kibble
right now, she’s on foods that are under 1.3 calcium and under 1.0 phosphorous.

Thank you

[2manycats]

spaniel39
Thanks for you help.

[Kelsey K]

Hi all!

First time poster here. HDM, thank you for all of this great information you’ve compiled! I very well could’ve missed it in the previous 73 pages (let me know if these questions have already been answered!), but I had a few questions about raw food and puppies.

I am a first-time LBD owner and will be bringing home an 8-week old berner boy in a month. I’d love to get him on a raw diet ASAP but am worried about the calcium content. My FIV+ kitty boy is currently eating Natural Pet Pantry (NPP), and I love how healthy it’s kept him.

Can I start feeding raw to a Bernese at 8 weeks old or should we start with kibble first? Any suggestions on a specific commercial raw? I’ve been looking at Darwin’s or NPP, but am totally open to anything and everything! If not raw right away, what’s the best kibble for a BMD? I’m eyeing Fromm, but I want to do everything right!

Thanks in advance for the help!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by Kelsey K.

[Kelsey K]

Also, any suggestions on supplements to start from the beginning? I know glucosamine/joint supplements are popular, as are Omega supplements. Any recommendations?

[Andrew M]

We have a 3 month old German bred German Shepherd Dog puppy.
We are feeding him Orijen LB Puppy. His stool is soft, not loose or runny. He also has “gas”…
Was advised to give him some plain yogurt to help with the “gas” issue. Was also told by a breeder that the Orijen, while excellent, may be too rich for him. What is the opinion about Nutro Ultra Large Breed Puppy? (We fed our Golden Nutro Ultra senior and were very pleased with the results.) Thanks in advance to all who comment…

• This reply was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by Andrew M.

[OnyxMom]

Andrew, is Orijen LB Puppy grain free? If not try switching to a grain free food and introduce a digestive enzyme into his food.

My 6 month old newfypoo never had good poop. I’d shudder every time he went because the horrible job of picking up dog poop was even more horrid because of his soft-serve style mushy excreta. When he would go on the sidewalk it was embarrassing and super disgusting. I switched his food several times (the proper way) to no avail.

Giving him a probiotic yoghurt only helped when he had very soft poop – but apparently there is a prebiotic and probiotic issue – a little bit of yoghurt doesn’t help with that.

Then I went on a grain free food and poop looked significantly better. Which led me to believe that he clearly does not handle grain well. Then I introduced a digestive enzyme and now his poop could not be better! I dont love picking up dog poop now, but I sort of do a little dance in my head cos it’s not gross anymore. He even goes less now (only two times a day) whereas before he was asking to be taken out 4/5 times a day.

I bought myself this from amazon – http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009O31QXY/ref=sr_ph?ie=UTF8&qid=1405450583&sr=1&keywords=dog+digestive+enzyme

Good Luck!
P.S. I forgot to mention before that I also tried Nutro Ultra and my puppy did not like it and it did not solve the mushy poop issue.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by OnyxMom.

[Andrew M]

Thank you OnyxMom. Appreciate the quick response and good information. Appreciate your sharing the information and link.

[Ben M]

I just got a Bouvier puppy and was looking for a good dog food. After looking through some documents and doing some research I was leaning to the Nature’s Variety Instinct: Limited Ingredient Diet Turkey…when I went to the site to verify my decision (I saw they had reformulated recently) I found the calcium levels higher than what i thought was recommended at 1.9%

http://www.instinctpetfood.com/product/instinct-grain-free-limited-ingredient-kibble-dog-food-turkey

The have a large breed puppy formula which looks better….however the 1.2%(min) throws me a little as to what the (max) would be

http://www.instinctpetfood.com/product/instinct-raw-boost-grain-free-kibble-large-breed-puppy-food-chicken

Can someone help me out…maybe I’m looking at it wrong?

[FrenchieBourdeaux]

Hi,
I am new to the forum and I know this question my have been answered and if so I am sorry. I just recently got a Doug De Bordeaux mastiff and I also have French Bulldogs so I am struggling to figure out what the best food would be to feed I feed my Frenchies a Nature’s Logic which they love and do great on mixture of there raw and dry. Ludo the new boy the mastiff came from the breeders eating TOTW which I don’t like to much or trust. Well he loves the Logic and wont eat the large breed puppy food the horizon complete he wants to eat what the girls eat (Frenchies) and the girls want to it his food which they cant. So I was wondering which food I could feed them all with were they would all be happy is Nature;s Logic calcium levels to high for him and if so which one on the list would be good for both to eat the Frenchies have a lot of allergy issues so I get nerves switching but it is not working feeding two different foods. Is the Now Calcium levels to high? And if so which one on the list do you feel would be the best for both breeds. He is 10 Weeks my Frenchies are 1, 5, and 8 years old. And is there any supplements that I should have him on? Sorry for the book..lol.

[gerald s]

hi to all, brand new to the site and want to thank hound dog mom for all of you helpful info. I have a beautiful 9 week old female 1/2 landseer newf 1/2 komondor pup that I am going to switch to wellness core from puppy chow that the breeder had her on. HDM should I keep her on the wellness for a full 2 years? thanks in advance for your reply jerry

[Gemino C]

Thank you Hound Dog Mom and all of the informative and resourceful dog lovers on this site who are highly concerned about dog nutrition.

I am wondering why Earthborne Hollistic Primitive Naturals did not make your list. It is rated 5 stars with 1.5 calcium. I hope to use this food when I pick up my 9 week old Weimaraner pup. Do you recommend this food. It also has 38% protein. Thanks in advance.

Gem

[Mike M]

Hound Dog Mom –

I have a Pyrenean Mastiff puppy on the way and I’ve done my research and settled on “Nature’s Variety Instinct Rabbit Meal” for him. The breeder feeds all of her PM’s “Canidae Life Stages All Life Stages”. I prefer to go grain-free, but the breeder feels that the protein levels are too high. The Canidae contains grain, but it less expensive for me than the Nature’s Variety, so I am open to it. Although I did just spend the time getting my Great Pyr used to the Nature’s Variety.

My question is, should I just go with the breeder suggested Canidae or should I try to go to the next level and go with the Nature’s Variety even though the protein is almost 10% higher than the breeder would like to see. I’ve read and believe the research regarding protein levels not being the culprit for problems, but I feel nervous about “disobeying” the breeder who is extremely well respected and basically the US founder of the breed.

Thanks!
Mike

[Sully’sMom]

I’m not sure if this is the right thread to ask my question, but I’ve always had lots of luck here (thank you HDM especially) so thought I’d try here first. Haven’t written is quite some time as Sully is now 2 yrs old and doing quite well. We got through the worst of his allergy problems, did some testing, dealt with the results and all in all – he’s great. However, for most of his 2 years he has had loose stool. I’ve mostly been doing a kibble rotation diet, always grain-free (because of his allergies), but the stool, although sometimes it’s worse (tried Zignature recently and stool was MUCH worse – too rich?) and sometimes its better, its never GOOD. My only go to knowledge would be to add canned pumpkin to his food. Any other good foods to try?

[OnyxMom]

Hello Sully’sMom!

The first thing to do is to do a fecal test – which I’m sure you probably have done.

I had the same problem with my Newfypoo (newfoundland+ standard poodle) puppy. I tried canned pumpkin twice a day, and probiotic yoghurt but his soft serve poop never went away. I had to finally introduce a digestive enzyme into his diet. The one I use is on Amazon and is made by naturvet. http://www.amazon.com/NaturVet-Digestive-Enzymes-Pets-1-Pound/dp/B009O31QXY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1407154566&sr=8-1&keywords=digestive+enzymes+for+dogs

Good Luck!

[Bralic H]

Ok, another one asking for food advice… I have a Lab/Great Dane/St Bernard mix puppy, almost 6 months old and weighs ~60lbs… I have tried quite a few different foods, but his digestion hasn’t really liked many. I tried the Chicken Soup for the Puppy Lover’s Soul, but the kibble was tiny, so that wasn’t working. Just before that was Costco’s Kirkland Signature puppy, which he liked, but he had soft-ish stools and gas… before that was Nutro Max Large Breed Puppy, because I didn’t know better and bought from our local co-op.

I currently am feeding him Merrick’s Whole Earth Farms Puppy recipe, and he LOVES it, but he still has soft stools and I worry because its not a “Large Breed” food. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions from a website, like petflow.com, which is where I ordered the Merrick’s from. I am trying to keep the cost down, as we just bought a house and are 2 months away from having a little baby girl, so I have been comparing brands on DFA that petflow.com sells. So far I am stuck between “NutriSource
Large Breed Puppy Chicken and Rice Dry Dog Food” and “Horizon Complete Large Breed Puppy Formula Dry Dog Food”, which are 1.53$ and 156$ a lb respectively.

So should I be switching his food from the Merricks, which is only 1.33$ a lb? Or choose one of these other 2. I am willing to even pay a little more, but was hoping to stay under like 1.90$ per lb. Thanks!!

P.S. Oh and also, i was reading this website by a “Great Dane Lady”. She recommends not going grain-free until adult, is there any truth to this? Has anyone else glanced at her website? Is it too old to be useful? (copyright on bottom is 2002-2003)

• This reply was modified 10 years, 3 months ago by Bralic H.

[Bralic H]

Sorry it won’t let me edit a second time, and after reading the google doc from the first page again, I see it recommends grain-free. And I noticed a few posts saying going grain-free helped the stools. Again, any advice on brands is welcome! Especially if I can buy it online, was my co-op only has like 2.40$ a lb dog food or 1.20$ a lb…

• This reply was modified 10 years, 3 months ago by Bralic H.

[twinelm]

HELP, HDM! My bullmastiff “puppy” is now 130 plus pounds at 15 months. When do calcium levels cease being an issue? I would like to switch him to Nature’s Variety Instinct because I had a previous rescue bullmastiff who did very well on it but I am afraid to do damage because of the calcium issue…
Thanks,
Lynn

[Case]

I’m already in trouble with the wife for the amount of time that I’ve spent reading over the past few days, so as much as I’d like to, I can’t read this thread from the beginning. I downloaded the list on page 15 but still have a few questions. We’ve recently added an English Mastiff x Great Dane pup to our family. My other dog is currently on a bag of Earthborn Primitive Natural. From what I gather it’s calcium/phosphorous/calorie content is not much different from Orijen’s large breed formula. I can get the meadow feast formula locally but I frown on the single source of amino acids. The only other decent food that I can get locally is blue wilderness large breed. My wife plans to top the food with 1/2 tablespoons of pumpkin and jack mackarel. Would the primitive naturals be too much? (1.5 calcium, 1.0 phosphorous, 20% fat)? Should I go ahead with the blue (not a huge fan but need a bag of food today).

[Boerboel Daddy]

Hound Dog Mom

My Boerboel ( South African, Mastiff Type dog) is four months old.
He was fed Royal Canine Giant Breed Puppy by the breeder i wish to switch to Coastal catch as per your recommeded foods lists… but Im a bit confused with the feeding guide.

Usually one would feed for the dogs adult weight but is tht the same with Large breed puppies… all large breed formulas differ from the adult feeding guides until the pups reach a certain age…

is that true for Eathborn Ocean Fusion as well? i have used the calculator but the 6 cups of food just seems too much for a four month old pup to be eating… are they refering to a standard sized cup? if so how much is said cup in grams?

[NiceGuy55]

Hi everybody! Does anyone have any advice on switching a 6 month old Newfie from Dr Tim’s Kinesis w 26% protein to Earthborn Coastal Catch w 32% protein? Should I be concerned about the 32% protein? Happy with Dr Tim’s just trying to rotate as I’ve read it’s good to do so.

Thanks!

[Daria S]

Hello all, Hello HOUND DOG MUM 🙂

Speaking about Ca:P ratios – I’ve just received response from First Mate pet foods according to their actual Ca:P ratios. On their pages and on the internet the figures are really really high (1,9:1 for Pacific Ocean Endurance/Puppy which made it to the HDM list). Here are the figures I received by them:

Pacific Ocean Fish Original 1.44:1
Pacific Ocean Fish Endurance/Puppy 1.50:1
Pacific Ocean Fish Large Breed 1.45:1
Pacific Ocean Fish Weight Control/Senior 1.40:1
Chicken with Blueberries 1.85:1
Australian Lamb 1.78:1

The ratios are lower than shown on their pages BUT still high for any large breed puppy because of too little Phosphorus. It’s a shame, I really liked the company and the food so now I’m thinking about Orijen Puppy Large (new formula since January 2013).

Orijen CS couldn’t give me answer about actual Calcium level and kept saying the same info as on the pages – Ca is between 1,2 – 1,5. The best i got from him is “The minimum calcium and phosphorus contents that are listed on our guaranteed analysis are reflective of the typical content.” Kcal is 3800/kg. So while 1,3 would be acceptable, 1,4 is too much. Now I really don’t know. I have a 3,5mths GR puppy and as everyone here I want the best for him. I like high protein in Orijen and quality ingredients.
Also I heard that Orijen is being too high in iron – I still need to analyse this topic.

Any thoughts here?

• This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by Daria S.

[USA]

HDM recently made these comments regarding her list of foods for Large Breed Puppies. Some of the foods on her list do NOT conform to AAFCO nutrient profiles.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFY183Q0NVRXlidWc/edit

“When I made the list all I went by (as stated on the list) was calcium level reported to me by the company and the AAFCO statement. I didn’t take the time to investigate into whether or not the foods did indeed comply with AAFCO’s requirements. To be honest, until you brought it to my attention (aimee) I had no idea that there were so many foods claiming to meet certain nutrient profiles when they don’t actually conform to these nutrient profiles. I for some reason placed a little more faith into the regulatory agencies than I should have and assumed all that was regulated.”

At this point, while I still think it’s useful and can serve as a good starting point for lbp owners to start selecting foods, the list hasn’t been updated in while. However, due to the upcoming lbp project for Editor’s Choice I can’t justify taking the time to weed through the list and update it.”

[Mike Sagman]

USA Dog Treats,

AAFCO currently has NO nutritional profile specifically for large breed puppy foods. However, the National Research Council does indeed specify unique guidelines designed to address the energy content of these kinds of foods as those calories relate to each recipe’s calcium content.

HDM (on her own) generously posted a detailed list of some of her own recommendations for commercial large breed puppy foods. Her work was scientifically based and required a significant amount of personal effort. This completely voluntary project included the creation of spreadsheets, phone calls to manufacturers as well as online research.

That research even included reliable references posted for your benefit as well as the benefit of others. So, frankly, I find your criticism of her efforts here surprising and unwelcome.

In summary, a knowledgeable veterinary expert, HDM and I have been working diligently on an important project — including the development of costly software — to help our readers verify claims made by manufacturers regarding the nutritional adequacy of their products specifically for large breed puppies.

[MICHAEL B]

Hound Dog Mom,
Assuming you have a good quality puppy food to begin with, is it important to rotate flavors and protein sources (beef, chicken, fish, etc.)? Is the variety appreciated by the dog, or just make us feel better?

[Daria S]

Hello, I hope you don’t mean me as a critic, there was nothing critial meant by my post. I read all 75 pages and found no info for First Mate which is also included on thr list, so I contacted the company myself and found that the Ca:P ratios are not suitable for LBP. That’s only a fact and fyi, without any offense or other intention. I highly appreciate the work and effort HDM did and wanted to contribute with my findings 🙂 I hope there is nothing wrong with exchanging the information.

More importantly I’d need advice regarding Orijen Puppy Large (as per my question in prev post) and another thing which comes to my mind is how much the protein influences the growth hormone production and such high protein food as Orijen is really safe to feed with..

• This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by Daria S.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Michael –

I do believe that rotating between various protein sources is important. Not only do I feel that protein sources should be rotating, but brands as well.

Here’s a great article on the subject written by Dr. Jean Dodd’s.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Daria –

No worries, Dr. Mike’s post was not directed at you. 🙂

If you read through some of the articles linked at the beginning of the thread you’ll see that, to date, research has shown that high protein levels have no negative implications on growth in large breed puppies.

As for Orijen’s updated LBP formula, the low end of the range would be appropriate but the higher end would supply too much calcium. As I’ve told people in the past, my personal feelings on this food are that it would be acceptable if fed in rotation with other foods that are well within the safe range and/or topped with a meat-based topper that would lower the C:P ratio slightly (such as Tripett).

[spaniel39]

Hi, Mom
Happy Labor day to you et all.
I started a new topic a while ago but no one responded <g>
My big baby Sophie the Komondor is now 18 months old and of course has been
on low calcium/phosphorous through all her puppyhood and young Tween months.
Bone structure/density/skeleton perfect
Some of the new foods I’m considering are higher in calcium/phosphorous so that’s
my question (and I can’t find anything online at all).
Once full grown, is the calcium /phosphorous levels important.
Some of the foods I’m interested in are around 2.0/2.2%.
Thanks!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Spaniel –

Once the dog is full grown it’s perfectly fine to feed foods with higher levels of calcium assuming the calcium and phosphorus levels are in balance with each other (between a 1:1 and 2:1 ratio) and conform to AAFCO’s standards.

[aimee]

Hi Daria,

interestingly enough, Ca/Ph ratio isn’t even discussed in the discussion of diet for growing large/giant breeds in Applied Veterinary Clinical Nutrition 2012. Nor is a specific ratio mentioned in recommendations for large breed growth. Dr. Larsen ACVN in an article on feeding large breed puppies writes “The ratio of calcium to phosphorus should be approximately 1:1 to 1.5; however, absolute amounts of each nutrient appear to be more important than the ratio per se.8 Clinical experience supports this, as developmental problems with extreme ratios in the presence of adequate dietary concentrations of calcium and phosphorus have not been reported.”

Based on those sources I personally don’t draw a line in the sand in regards to ratios during large breed growth.

[USA]

Hi Mike Sagman

You said:

“So, frankly, I find your criticism of her efforts here surprising and unwelcome.”

This is what I said:

“HDM recently made these comments regarding her list of foods for Large Breed Puppies. Some of the foods on her list do NOT conform to AAFCO nutrient profiles.”

My statement is based on Hound Dog Mom’s reply to aimee in this discussion:

/off-topic-discussion/#comment-1567869917
/off-topic-discussion/#comment-1567906602

I applaud her efforts and contributions to this website. The fact that some of the foods on HDM’s list do NOT meet AAFCO nutritional guidelines for ANY AAFCO LIFE STAGE is very relevant to her list and is something I think that people reading this blog have a right to know. And frankly I think your criticism of me letting your readers know about this is more about the fact that Hound Dog Mom works for you than it is about my comment, otherwise you would be thankful that I pointed this out.

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