[theBCnut]

You first have to call the company for the “as fed” calcium level, instead of the minimum listed on the label.

[Jenmarlew]

Thanks. I will do so.

[NiceGuy55]

Hello HDM et al!

We just brought home our new 9 week old / 13 lbs Newfoundland from the breeder this weekend and I’m looking to soon transition from the Pro Plan Adult Large Breed she’s currently eating to one from the recommended list (dry kibble). She’s already on the small side for a newf and also a bit too skinny, so we’re trying to bulk her up (though still keep her on the thin side). Based on what I’ve gathered from reading nearly every post in this forum, I’ve narrowed it down to 1) Earthborn Holistic: Coastal Catch, 2) Innova LB Puppy and 3) Dr Tim’s Kinesis. Was looking at Fromm’s as well but a bit concerned about some of the recent posts about owners having issues. Also A bit hesitant on the Innova and Dr Tim’s due to the lower protein levels. Any thoughts on what food from either the grain or grain-free lists would be best for trying help her build up some some muscle but also maintain healthy growth?

Many thanks!

[John B]

OK, I have did soem searching thru the forum and I can not get a clear answer to a question i have thinking about. I have a 11week old Great Dane. She is currently eating Innova Large breed puppy. I see that Innova had a recall in late 2013, but the list had a 5 star for Innova food. I am considering switching her to Orijen dry puppy. Thoughts? She likes Innova and do not want to change unless there is a neccissity to do so, but I do not like P&G either. I fed our last great dane (who lived to be 11.5yrs of age) Purina Pro Plan sensitive stomach because that was the only thing she would tolerate. I know its not the greatest nor on any list but it worked for her.

[theBCnut]

Hi John

Here’s Hound Dog Mom’s newest list of foods with safe calcium levels. https://docs.google.com/viewer?srcid=0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk&pid=explorer&efh=false&a=v Orijen did not make the list, because their calcium levels were just a tad high still. While I don’t like the fact that Proctor & Gamble are even in the dog food business, they were pretty much right on top of things with their recall, so I don’t worry about that. That being said, I believe in feeding a rotational diet. By only feeding one type of food long term, we create sensitive stomachs in our dogs. Change foods often and you will have a dog that doesn’t get an upset stomach from every little thing he finds.

[JASTECH]

I think feeding a variety of raw is the best we can do. My large breed ate 3 large chicken quarters, raw of course, he’s had entire large rabbit, deer leg, turkey complete or whatever else I come up with for raw meat. He eats Fromm dry kibble w/o any problems. I think the hip and joint issues are mainly on man made breeds, they seem to be more prone to cancers ect too. I think we’ll better support these breeds systems feeding raw. JMHO

[John B]

Thank you for the replys. Is there some ratio of raw diet (chicken, deer, etc) to dry kibble? Is kibble the main diet and some raw mixed in? Or is one total meal raw then other meals are kibble. She is 11 weeks old now, and only been on dry kibble. I want to slowly introduce raw meat. We give her fruit (strawberries, apples, bananas with veggies carrots, sweet potatoes,) as treats and training food.

[JASTECH]

John B, at this time I like to feed 60/40 kibble to raw. When I can hunt I will go back to 100% raw. I like to rotate kibble main proteins and Fromm 4-Star gives me a good variety. With raw its the same, rotate with chicken, deer, fish, pork and all organic fed. I would use a digital scale to weigh out portions, then adjust as needed.

[JASTECH]

John B, at this time I like to feed 60/40 kibble to raw. When I can hunt I will go back to 100% raw. I like to rotate kibble main proteins and Fromm 4-Star gives me a good variety. With raw its the same, rotate with chicken, deer, fish, pork, rabbit and all organic fed. I would use a digital scale to weigh out portions, then adjust as needed.

[Alexandria G]

I have a 13 week old Siberian Husky Puppy. I was thinking of getting him on Fromm 4 Star Nutritionals Grain free. This is all life stages right? and I saw that this was on that list for the calcium levels. So this is a good food for a puppy?? I saw Fromm has had no recalls. Not sure what to do.

[JASTECH]

Alexandria, their 4 Star for ALS is good food. Fromm has 11 varieties so you new family member won’t get bored. Maybe I could send you a mix of samples if you can’t get them near you?

[ApacheDakota]

Hello,
I’m wondering what HDM or anyone else thinks of Earth’s Pride Grain Free Duck and Vegetable? It just received 5 stars on here a few days ago.

[lmnordrum]

The star rating is irrelevant: its the calcium levels. Lots of five star foods do not fit the criteria because of calcium, not content. Check the list.

[ApacheDakota]

I have seen the list but since this food was just rated, I wanted to get some opinions. Min calcium level is 1.1%. I know minimum is not the actual amount, that is why I was wondering if HDM was going to be looking into this food more closely.

[Brian K]

How long do I need to feed my 16 week old chessie a low calcium diet?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Brian –

I would suggest controlling calcium levels until the dog is at least 8 months old.

“Canine hip dysplasia (CHD) is the most frequently encountered orthopedic disease in veterinary medicine practice. This extremely common heritable disorder of the growing dog can be influenced by nutrition. The period from 3 to 8 months of age appears to be important in the development of CHD, with the first 6 months generally thought to be the most critical.”
Skeletal Diseases of the Growing Dog by Daniel C. Richardson DVM

[LunasMommy]

HDM new to the group and have been reading this post for a couple of days (lots of great info, thank you!). I’m about to go pick up my new Great Dane puppy (so excited!!!). This will be my first puppy and after reading the posts and looking at the shared document that’s floating around, I know I need to be sure to look at the calcium levels because I want to hopefully prevent andy kind of developmental problems that might be associated with large breed dogs. So my question is, I asked the breeder what he’s currently feeding my pup since I haven’t picked her up yet and he’s currently feeding the whole litter Purina Puppy Chow and since that’s not on the list I’m assuming it’s higher in calcium levels or doesn’t meet another criteria. So will feeding the puppy this at this stage (she’s about 5 weeks old) causing any issues? As soon as I pick her up I’m planning on putting her on a grain free 4 or 5 star good from that list (depending on what I can find locally).

Thank you for you time!

[theBCnut]

Purina didn’t make the list because the list is only 4 and 5 star foods.

[InkedMarie]

LunasMommy: when are you picking up your puppy?

[Tigerlily]

Hi all! I am looking for some information to help assist a puppy buyer of mine. She has a 4.5 month old standard poodle puppy that I bred. I sent puppies home on Wellness Large Breed Puppy because the calcium levels are at least somewhat moderate and advised her to be careful about feeding foods with excessive levels of calcium. (I realize the levels are still higher than the foods on HDM’s list, but because a standard poodle is in all actuality a medium sized dog, I don’t feel that it is as necessary to be as strict – just to choose a moderate food). Anyway, she told me she switched her pup to Orijen Large Breed Puppy. I suggested to her that the calcium levels in that particular food really are quite excessive and that I would recommend Acana instead. She told me that she consulted with a canine nutritionist before switching her pup and that they advised her that Orijen it was a more “premium” food than Acana. She mentioned that the calcium percent in Orijen LBP is no less than 1.2% and no more than 1.5% and Wellness min/max 1.1/1.5%. I explained that that is true, but that the total mg of calcium per kcal in Orijen is quite a bit higher. I just wanted to double check my facts here! Also, did Orijen LBP change their formula? Because what I have seen in the past was 1.5/1.7 for min/max.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Tigerlily –

Orijen’s LBP formula is actually lower in calcium than Acana. It just barely missed making the list. Orijen provides a range and the lower end of the range actually falls within the safe levels and the higher end of the range just slightly above.

[Tigerlily]

Very interesting and good to know! Thanks for clarifying!!!

[lmnordrum]

My 6 month old Giant Schnauzer, currently 47 pounds, seems to be having some ‘gastric distress’ with mucus-y diarrhea.

She’s eating Wellness Core Puppy (on the list) and has done well with it and I read every post here before I selected it. The dog developed the diarrhea about 12 days ago and we’ve been to the vet. The dog has no symptoms on chicken and rice, but I need a kibble. I’m thinking that perhaps the protein and fat may be too high but I’m asking for a screening for giardia, coccidia and parasites. Came home with flagyl, pepcid, old fashioned Kaopectate (which is not the same stuff sold for humans any longer) and a new probiotic. Is there a food presently on HDMs list that is lower in fat and protein? I know I may have to go to a food with grain but would rather not feed the dog corn or wheat. The poor thing is really hungry on the chicken and rice and broth diet and can’t stay on it forever because there’s really no nutrition for a growing pup. I believe I still need to watch the calcium levels as she’s six months, but I also have to get her fed too.

I followed poor DukeTheBoxer’s situation and really hope to not go down that road with my dog. (and I sure hope Duke is doing better.)

Thanks.

[Sue’s Zoo]

I have two large pups (10m, 95lbs; 7m, 68lbs). Thanks to this website I’m now raw feeding though I’ve stressed about it quite a bit (mostly unnecessarily I”m sure). But when I talked to my holistic vet she suggested if I needed more bulk in diet especially when problems occur, oats would be the way to go. I haven’t researched this further but thought I’d pass it along as something you could check further.

Good luck!

[theBCnut]

Hi Imnordrum
Earthborn Holistic Coastal Catch or Meadow Feast are OK. How long was your pup on Wellness before developing the mucosy stool? This can be a sign of food intolerance issues. I wouldn’t automatically assume it has to do with amount of protein or fat.

[lmnordrum]

We tried Meadow Feast when she was a younger pup and she had very loose and mucus-y stool, which is why I had to do Wellness, lol. Figured it was the lamb in there. The dog is 6 months old and has been on Wellness Core Puppy since I brought her home at 9 weeks. I was looking at the Earthborn products again last night because of the lower fat.

What I don’t understand here is if its a chicken allergy or intolerance, how come I can give her cooked chicken and there’s no problem? I’ve pored through this thread and others and keep coming back to an intolerance, but have a difficult time believing it is chicken because of how well she does on a non-kibble diet. I am leaning towards fats being the problem. But puppy can not live on fresh chicken and rice soup forever, which is why I visited the vet.

Ironically this all started about a day after I took her to a professional commercial dog facility for training class. They do doggy daycare and boarding, as well as classes. There are likely hundreds of dogs that go through that lawn and parking lot every day, and of course being a dog she had to sniff around. She also had a bite out of the cat box (eww, but someone left the gate down) three days prior, drank some standing water out of a gutter, chewed lilies and daffodil leaves and ate dirt. I have asked the vet to check for parasites along with Giardia and Coccidia, but I understand that the latter can be more difficult to find.

Right now the dog is on Flagyl and Pepcid with a new probiotic that the vet likes (Proviable). I have the Dr Langers probiotic on order which I’ll take for myself if the animal does well on the Proviable. At this point it seems to be a mystery and I’m in the denial phase of the kibble situation because it was so sudden. We live in the country and the dog has only been in my yard (now fenced) and not exposed to other dogs until dog school. She also was boarded in April (two weeks prior to all of this) but my kennel gal did not let my animal near the others because the dog was too rough. We’ve been visiting this kennel for grooming and some short boarding since January.

I’m thinking about the fat content of the Wellness, which is pretty high (its puppy food). The current chicken/rice/homemade broth is incredibly low in fat. If she’s having problems with fats then I need a much different kibble, like for seniors or overweight dogs. But then I have the whole nutrition thing to consider because she’s just six months old and has a lot of growing to do yet. So I am now poring over lists and labels because of the things I need to avoid. I may end up with a kibble that has some grain.

I really hope the answer lies in the lab results. We’ve only had worming at 9 and 12 weeks. Some vets recommend worming monthly and my first vet did not mention this. My current vet, who I am using because there is more than one and they have a larger treatment facility, is a lot younger and didn’t scoff at me for wanting to feed probiotics or a more natural diet or even hold off on a spay until the animal was more mature. The first vet, who is the kindest person you want to meet and I’ve known for a long time, has been practicing for about 50 years and does horses and large animals and is quite well known for his equine practice. He wanted me to feed ScienceDiet crap because of all the research put behind the food. Sorry. Not feeding my dog corn or wheat. I am OK with oatmeal and rice–I don’t eat corn myself except on rare occasions so I am sure as heck not feeding it to a purebred dog who may have a sensitive digestive system because of her breed.

So now I cook chicken and rice, which is fine because we eat a lot of both here, and wait. We’ve had no diarrhea, no gas, no tummy rumbling, no nothing, since yesterday afternoon. Tummy rumbling and gas has never been a problem with the dog anyways. She was pretty hungry so I’m giving small meals of chicken/rice/broth and there are no problems. (No stool either, but her intestines were pretty empty after yesterday’s bout of diarrhea.)

Thanks for all your help. I really appreciate it!

[cdubau]

At what age do you stop worrying about the calcium levels?

[goldenmom]

Imnordrum I would think if your puppy has been on Wellness since you brought it home with no problems and it’s 6 months now and the problem just started then it’s not the food. I would think it’s another issue. That’s my thought.

[William N]

Hound Dog Mom: I am a new member to the forum and clearly your experience, knowledge base is impressive. My adult Daughter picked up her 8wk old female black labrador this morning. She emailed me that the puppy was being fed a Purina product and she would like to upgrade. She needs to be a little careful within her budget. The Dam is rather small for the breed and this puppy seems light for her age 13 -14 lbs. I have researched your recommendations of 4/5 star food – but don’t see many specifically for puppies. Should I extrapolate that to imply that all are suitable (calcium levels noted). She asked me if the puppy would do well on the Kirkland Salmon Nature’s Domain food, or should she try the Wellness Core series or perhaps Fromm Gold Holistic LB puppy. I advised her to stay with the current food for a few days to a week so puppy can acclimate to it’s new home without a new diet thrown in as well. Your thoughts are welcome. Thank you.

[DogFoodie]

Congrats to your daughter on her new pup! I’d say the weight she’s at currently seems on target for an eight week old lab.

One thing your daughter should keep in mind is that there are actually only two AAFCO nutrient profiles, one is growth, the other adult maintenance. Growth is the same thing as “All Life Stages.” Foods that are labeled for puppies are growth, or ALS, foods. Growth foods are suitable for dogs of all ages, but adult maintenance foods should only be fed to adults.

I could be mistaken, but I highly doubt that HDM has any foods on her list that aren’t ALS foods.

One more thing your daughter might want to pick up when she’s out is a can of plain, canned, pumpkin puree for the inevitable new puppy loose stool.

[DogFoodie]

Hi cdubau,

You should feed your pup a controlled level of Calcium until he’s reached at least 80% of his adult size, at which time he begins to regulate his Calcium uptake. For a large breed puppy, that’s at least eight to ten months of age.

[NiceGuy55]

I’m feeding my 10 wk old Newfie Earthborn Holistic Meadow Feast. She was smallest in the litter and is still a bit on the thin side at just under 20 lbs. I realize the feeding recommendation on the bag is just a guide, but it indicates 1-1.25 cups A DAY. We’re up to 3 cups a day and she still frantically searches for more. She seems to be a good weight from the “rib test.” Is it ok to be that far off from the feeding guidelines? Should I bump up to more than 3 cups? Thanks!

[lmnordrum]

Try more frequent feedings too. I fed 3x/day when my Giant Schnauzer was younger. We’ve had some dietary issues and we’re back to 3x/day feedings. The additional feeding makes a huge difference for her.

[RescueDaneMom]

I feed my Dane 3x/day as well.

[lmnordrum]

Oh, and I didn’t really worry about the bag. If the dog was hungry she was obnoxious, which didn’t help any of us. She slept all night from the time I brought her home so the 3x/day feedings worked pretty well for us.

[LunasMommy]

InkedMarie: Right now she’s 7 weeks old and I’ll be picking her up Memorial Day weekend since the breeder is a 6 hours away. So she’ll be around 9 weeks by then. I’m planning on transitioning her from the Purina puppy chow she’s currently eating to one of the 4 or 5 star brands that’s on the list. I just need to find one in my area. I’m just concerned what effects if any it will have one her (the purina puppy chow).

[lmnordrum]

LunasMommy: I had a similar situation with my pup. The dog was eating Royal Canin Puppy at the breeder, and wanted to be responsible and mix the food. Dog wasn’t having it: she wanted the good stuff (Wellness Core Puppy.) I just gave up on mixing the food because the dog wasn’t eating the Royal Canin anyways. She was fine.

[InkedMarie]

LunasMom: whew! When I read your first post, I was afraid you were bringing home a pup at six weeks. Glad you aren’t. I can’t help with large breed puppy feeding but I’d choose a food on HDM’s list.

[theBCnut]

NiceGuy55

The feeding guidelines are based on adult weight, so you have to make a guess at what your dogs adult weight will be, then adjust from there. Any time you look at feeding guidelines, if there are not special guidelines just for puppies, then it is based on assumed adult weight.

[JAYNE V]

Good morning. Our long awaited Rottweiler pup was born yesterday. In 9 weeks time she will be coming home. I will be sending our breeder food for our pup, as I would like her to start on her LBP food from the get go.

I live in South Africa and have perused HDM’s amazing list (thank you for all your efforts and research AND for sharing). I can get hold of the Earthborn Holistic food, BUT, I am a huge Orijen fan (my deceased male rottie was on it for years) and wanted to know if there is any specific reason the Orijen Large breed puppy didn’t make the list – or is it specifically due to the calcium levels? This is the food I was planning to start her on – now having 2nd thoughts due to this list.

I am a huge Champion Pet food fan, and ideally Orjien is what she will be fed for the remainder of her days – but if the calcium content is too high – I don’t want to risk it?

Any advice would be greatly appreaciated -:) Thanking you in advance.

[Candi B]

Hi everyone, I am new here and, so glad I found this forum! I have a 7 1/2 month old Golden retriever. He is currently weighing in at around 60 pounds. I am feeding him Merrick duck and sweet potato. Let me tell you, when he does his business outside, he can stink up the whole yard! It is really smelly. I am transitioning him over to Fromm 4 star hoping to stop this problem. The man at the store told me I could be over feeding him. I feed 1 cup 3 times a day. The vet says he is in great shape , not overweight and looking healthy. Any advise or thoughts on this stinky matter would be appreciated.
Thanks, Candilee

[Scott C]

Like Jayne V, above, I would be interested to know the specific rationale for not including the Orijen puppy food on the list. We have had our huge Samoyed on Orijen for the last three years (we rescued him when he was one) so have no personal experience with the Orijen puppy product, but have nothing but glowing praise for the Adult Dry. My mother-in-law will be getting a 6-month German shepherd puppy soon, however, and we hesitate to recommend Orijen puppy based on its absence from the list here.

Would sincerely appreciate any additional thoughts that can be shared on this point.

[RescueDaneMom]

The Orijen LB Puppy has borderline too much calcium. If you read back in this thread, I believe it was stated a few times. I can’t remember the actual number but it slightly higher than what one would want to feed a LB/Giant puppy.

[jen.mcco]

Curious if there is a listing of foods that include grain by any chance– I do rotation diets with my older boxers (5 yrs and 9 yrs) which include grain/grain-free/raw– WE do not feed corn/wheat/soy products and everything I feed is on the 4 or 5 star list– However we will be getting another boxer puppy in 3 wks– Although I would like to rotate his diets as well I would like to know if there are any 4 star foods that are acceptable for a large breed puppy that is not totally grain free-

[SaintsDontCarryBrandy]

Our family has had Saint Bernards since before I was born, but the diet choices weren’t either as varied or as useful as they are now. “What’s cheap?” reigned over “What’s the best diet?” Now I have a Saint Bernard puppy (9 weeks) coming into our household who’s been raised on Sportmix Wholesome. It averages 3.5 stars, but given its first few ingredients are major flags, I’m not willing to “save a few bucks” in exchange for a less healthy and shorter-lived pup!
I can’t access HDM’s Large Breed Dog Food list on Google (argh); am considering Victor Grain Free, but am open to any dog food good for giant-breed dogs (my pup’s dad is 220 and a strapping boy, so he isn’t likely to be small…) Saints develop at a rapid pace, so their dietary needs are similar to other giants (Newfies, Mastiffs, Danes, Pyrenees, etc.)

Am reading everything I can get my hands on. I’m willing to get better quality dog food; would appreciate any advice, as well as thoughts on feeding raw vs. great-quality package food. Thanks!

[spaniel39]

Jason B
I now have a 1 year 2 month old 130 pound Komondor
I started her off on Canine Caviar Puppy Dinner (lamb)
but was pretty expensive
I had great luck with Petcurean NOW large breed puppy
Now Fresh Large Breed Puppy (5 stars)
But it’s not inexpensive at about $59 for a large bag.
NOW FRESH™ Large Breed Puppy food recipe is made with 100% FRESH turkey, salmon, duck & 100% fresh Omega 3 & 6 oils from coconuts and canola. NOW FRESH™ also features zero grains, gluten, wheat, beef, corn or soy. Zero rendered meats, by-products or artificial preservatives.

This recipe also features:

Calcium and phosphorus to promote your puppy’s growth
New Zealand green mussels to support hip and joint health
Added L-Carnitine to support heart health/fat burning
Pre + Probiotics to support digestion
Added Taurine to support vision and heart function

[William N]

HELP – we switched our 9 week old lab from the PPchow to WEF dry – did it over a week or so transitioning a little more each day. Been on WEF about 3 weeks and now have diarrhea. Used pumpkin, firmed her up, mixed WEF (grain inclusive)back in – stool getting soft again – soooo I am guessing she is sensitive to this food. (Stool free of worms etc.) Any other recommendations to try – at about same cost for food? Thanks.

[Mimi S]

We have an Irish Setter that was raised on raw. Lately he’s been “off his food” and getting what we call grumble belly. He was getting Bravo, a balanced raw, chicken drumsticks and various, good, expensive treats. We switched to canned Nature’s Variety, different sources of protein plus chicken drumsticks. He’s still not right, although never diarrhea like the previous post and his stool doesn’t smell much. He’s still pooping, has energy but no interest in food. Should we stop the chicken and go to a good kibble, keep some canned and ad kibble, feed only raw without the chicken drumsticks? Help! We’re frustrated. He came to us at about 1 1/2 and was fine. We lost our last setter to stomach cancer and are so afraid there’s something we’re doing wrong. He drinks the filtered water that we drink.

[spaniel39]

mimi and William
see my post above yours.
NOW also has an adult formula
I learned the hard way (diarrhea, loose stools) that many puppies/dogs have a chicken
allergy and have stopped feeding it (the kibble, that is) to my dogs.
I have a Huge breed (Komondor) and 2 Springer Spaniels right now.
Lamb is easily digestible and my Komondor is on Nutrisource large Breed LAMB
I think it’s about $49 for a 30 pound bag
Acana Duck and Bartlett Pear is good and low calcium levels for the large breed puppies
although it is expensive.
It’s really trial and error until you find something that works
Oh, and also, I only use grain free, although there are some good foods with low
glycemic grains such as oats, millet, alfalfa.
Also, for diarrhea, I’ve used canned (unspiced) pumpin but find that a baked
sweet potato (with skin) is better

[Mimi S]

Thanks. I guess we’ll do the trial and error thing. He hasn’t had grains, ever.
Want Spaniel 39 to know that my sister had a Komondor…..sweetest girl ever!

[Author]

Posts