[Lablubber]

Hi again

So not to bother y’all again but tonight I went kibble shopping and the only brand of food besides Wellness that they had that was even remotely on the list was the Blue I am feeding and it didn’t meet the criteria either and the Wellness they had was only adult and no puppy much less lg breed puppy… So just as a beginning lesson for me, just what ingredients would someone go buy to start their puppy on raw in order to get everything they would need. Jess is 11weeks old….?

Thanks Lablubber

[lmnordrum]

I buy my Wellness Core Puppy at http://www.Chewy.com . They ship it right to me and no worries on it not being in the store. Competitive prices too. If it were easier to get around here I would buy it in my independent pet shot (I like to support small business) but they don’t carry it.

[theBCnut]

I love Chewy dot com. If there is ever a problem with your order, they will bend over backward to make it right. They really go the extra mile!

[theBCnut]

Hi Lablubber
If you are serious about wanting to make your own dog food, check out the raw food section. Hound Dog Mom had blood hounds and the recipes she created on there are excellent and have the right amount of calcium for large breed puppies. After you look at that, if you decide you want something easier to get started, there are premixes that you just add meat and oil to, that you may want to check out. See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix is one. The Honest Kitchen Preference is another. And Dr Harvey’s Veg to Bowl is a third. Finally, Dr Karen Becker’s book “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” and Steve Brown’s book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” are great resources as is dogaware dot com.

[Sharon Buchanan]

Jazz ~
Sorry I didn’t get back to you yesterday. It’s been a madhouse around here with my oldest daughter moving out yesterday, me trying to finish some reading on raw diets so I can order some food before tomorrow and trying to find the right adoptable Golden for my husband.

I appreciate that RescueDaneMom jumped in to give you some very good advice. Pattyvaughn is another great resource as are any number of people more qualified than I.

Although some of the papers from the Great Dane study indicate that a 6 month old LBP could effectively absorb calcium, I have to agree with GDM that waiting at least until 10 months to switch to a higher calcium diet is better. I would however, still feed LBP kibble until full grown, up to 2 years old – you’ll know when your pup has reached that point.

I did switch Mystery to Orijen, Large Breed Puppy a month or so ago and if I hadn’t gone raw I’d have fed it until he was at least 16 months old. I wouldn’t have moved to Acana LBP because their MINIMUM calcium is 1.6%, Orijen is 1.2/1.5 min/max. Some of the Acana Regionals recipes have a similar low minimum calcium of 1.2% but they don’t say what their max is. Additionally, the protein content is lower than Orijen LBP. For comparison’s sake – Orijen LBP and both adult formulas contain 14 proteins and then starches follow. Acana Wild Prairie 2 proteins then a starch while their Grasslands is a bit better at 4. 80% of Orijen’s ingredients are protein, Acana is 60%. Of the other foods that RDM listed, I have opinions on all of them, but you can do further comparisons.

IF I were going to continue into adult kibble, I would absolutely have stayed with any variety of adult Orijen and would have felt very good about my decision. All five cats are eating Orijen with the youngest, a five month old Maine Coon stealing a few ounces of Mystery’s raw. I spent a lot of time researching pedigrees and genetics and food so that we could avoid, to every extent possible, a repeat of the $10,000 it cost us to have double-hip surgery on Sunset before she was two and three months of 24/7 in-clinic therapy to teach her how to walk again. I’m by no means an expert, but I can read and the more I do, the better I feel about my food choices, and why I switched to Orijen at 9 months and then raw so soon after at 10 months.

I wholly agree with RDM on turmeric. Mystery is enrolled in the Morris Foundation’s lifetime study on the relationship between cancer and Golden Retrievers and since we just lost Sunset to cancer, I feel a duty to do everything I can keep Mystery from getting cancer. I do purchase some supplements from Swanson and I’ve had Mystery on Springtime’s Longevity but I’m not certain I will continue that. I do agree with your decision to limit supplements since most kibble already contain a variety of supplements – I recently read an article on supplement overkill. If I can dig that article up I’ll let you know.

I also give Mystery raw eggs on occasion. It’s my understanding that the shell of the egg has a perfect balance of calcium to phosphorus. So if you’re still feeding a low calcium kibble and you want to add a bit more without switching to a higher calcium food, break an egg! I usually break it over a bowl, break up the shell a bit with my hands and pour it over his food. He gets the same eggs I eat – Born Free, Vegetarian without the added omegas or any other organic, free-range brown egg when Born Free is unavailable.

One more note – Susan Thixton had her site truthaboutpetfood.com hacked a couple years ago and so opened another site adding a “2” to the end. The problem finally resolved, she’s moved everything back over to truthaboutpetfood.com but is in the process of cleaning things up – hopefully that will be finished soon. Keep checking back, sign up for her newsletter or “Like” her on Facebook. She’s worth following.

Whew! 😉

[Jazz Lover]

Sounds like a busy wknd for sure!

I was feeling so good about my choice. I p/u Orijen adult. Now it sounds as if I should have p/u their LBP. I did not notice a significant difference in the 2 guaranteed analysis. Other than LBP note carbs & adult did not. I thought the overall consensus was the adult at 10 mos.

Susan responded to my email & her site is back up? She says any links that have the “2,” you’ll need to remove that “2” to find the article. I plan to follow & did like on FB, as well.

Lmk what you all think & if I should exchange Orijen Adult food for Orijen’s LBP?

PS How can I add a picture to my profile?

[theBCnut]

Go to gravatar dot com

[Sharon Buchanan]

Jazz ~
I wouldn’t get too worried about feeding the adult food over LBP since your pup is now nine months old. The difference in calcium is fairly negligible – 1.2/1.5 vs 1.3/1.6, if you got the regular adult recipe and not the Regional Red which I consider to be too high, as is the fish recipe.

Depending upon where you bought it, you can take it back even if you opened it. My local PetCo would take it back. If you bought it online and haven’t opened it, call and see if they’ll switch for you. Otherwise, just feed it and next time get the LBP.

[Sharon Buchanan]

Patty ~
I ordered my first 25 lbs from MPC. Shipping hurt the bottom line but it gives me a little time to find some local resources. I’m afraid I didn’t get too creative in ordering though, and will have to put a little more effort into balancing, but it’s a start.

Ground Chicken Supermix
Ground Whole Young Beef
Green Beef Tripe Strips
Young Beef Chunks

[theBCnut]

For me, shipping is about a buck a pound, and that definitely hurts the bottom line. I try to get the things I can’t find locally or anywhere else from them. Hare Today is also a buck a pound shiiping for me. I use them mostly for ground sardine, herring, and tripe, the things I want 1 lb packages for.

[kms]

Pattyvaughn –

Thanks for the info. I will start researching which foods to try so I can start my list of proteins/starches to test. Augie will be 10 mo by the time we’re ready to start testing, but I think I’m going to stick with HDM’s list anyway. He is on day #10 of 100% Royal Canin HP and his gas/breath/diarrhea have improved a lot – but, about once per day, he’s having yellow stool (usually in the afternoon). The yellow stool is usually soft or runny – but he has had a couple formed ones too – and every couple days it’s has a clear mucous in it. The yellow happens about once per day and the rest of his stools are formed and brown. Has your pup ever had this? Do you think that is just his body adjusting? I’m worried about the mucous.

Anyone in same sitaution (LBP with IBD who is on strict vet diet) –

Just wanted to post info on making dog treats out of canned food. I verified that this is ok with the vet and Royal Canin. I took the canned food version of my dogs kibble (Royal Canin HP) and baked it to make treats. The canned food in my case is NOT ok for ALS, but his kibble is ok for ALS and has the proper calcium – so I’m only using the canned (baked into treats) for occasional training. The treats come out chewy and are keeping his interest (and this did not smell up the house)……..

For loaf style canned food baked in oven:
1. Remove loaf and cut in tiny cubes. It does not shrink much after baking.
2. Sprinkle pieces across cookie sheet. Do not need to grease it.
3. Bake uncovered at 325 degrees (if using a dark pan) for 20-23 minutes
4. Store in frig for 5-7 days.

For loaf style canned food in microwave:
1. Remove loaf and cut in tiny cubes. It does not shrink much after baking.
2. Sprinkle pieces across microwave safe baking dish. Do not need to grease it.
3. Cook for 3-4 minutes (just using plastic microwave cover)
4. Store in frig for 5-7 days.

[theBCnut]

I’ve had a couple dogs have yellow stools. My current dog with food issues had nasty yellow mucousy bloody stools when I got him. My vet said he was sure he had IBS at 9 weeks old and that by 1 year he would prove to have IBD. Fortunately, the first things I tried for him got him on the right path and we have had no further problems with him as long as we stay on top of his food issues.

The other one had a protozoal infection that my vet made a guess at which antibiotics to try before we got results back from the lab, and fortunately, by the time we knew what we were dealing with, we already had a good handle on it.

[Lance & Nikki]

Hi! I was researching some info on food for our dogs and I came upon this site and more importantly, this great thread. I read some of the thread but didn’t see what I was looking for exactly, so my apologies if this has already been addressed, but I really want to make sure that we are doing the right thing when it comes to feeding our wonderful dogs.

We have a Great Dane that is now almost 13 months old and we have a St Bernard puppy that will be 14 weeks old this Friday. Right now we are feeding them both Artemis Fresh Mix for medium and large breed puppies. We went with this food because it got good reviews and from what we could find, it’s a high quality food. But now that Pepper (our Dane) is over a year old, we were thinking of transitioning her to an adult food and preferably a grain free one because she does have a rather sensitive stomach. In researching this, we saw that calcium content is an issue in giant breed dogs, especially breeds like the Great Dane, and it seems that many grain free foods are higher in calcium.

What we want to switch Pepper over too is the Merrick grain free line of foods because from everything we have ever read, Merrick is a fantastic company that makes extremely high quality food. And since we have to get the Artemis food shipped in because nobody locally carries it, and we already use the Merrick canned food a couple of times a week to supplement the dry food and both our dogs love it, we would really like to use the Merrick food once our dogs are old enough to switch to adult food. I did e-mail Merrick to find out what their calcium content is by dry matter and they sent me the following:

Grain Free Chicken- 2.50%
Grain Free Buffalo- 2.50%
Grain Free Duck- 2.50%
Grain Free Pork- 2.32%

Now these are all over the recommended limit of 1.3% to 1.5% that I have read about for giant breed dogs, but most of those limits were for their growth stage. My question (and concern) is, is Pepper old enough now where the calcium content of the food isn’t as critical as it would be if she were still a fast growing puppy (she’s right about 100 pounds now and hasn’t put on much weight at all in the last few months, she’s seems pretty steady at her current weight and size)? She currently is eating twice a day (morning and evening) about 2 cups at each feeding.

Sorry for the long winded first post and thank you in advance for any advice/information you can throw our way, it is greatly appreciated!

Lance & Nikki

[theBCnut]

After 8-10 months of age, pups become able to regulate their calcium uptake, so if a food has too much their body just doesn’t try to use it. So the older one should be fine.

[angele_normand]

Hi,

Next week, my 8 week old puppy will be arriving. She is half german shepherd and half labrador.

I want to feed her a homemade cooked diet. What would you recommend I feed her on a daily basis? I read that she should get around 400 calories and 56 g of protein per day. Is this accurate?

Thank you!

[RescueDaneMom]

Hi angele normand,

A homemade cooked diet is doable but you’re going to have to be really careful with the calcium/phosphorous. I’ve never cooked for a large breed puppy just adults so I don’t know how to go about making sure the calcium and phosphorous is at the right level. Hopefully Patty or someone else that is knowledgeable will chime in. Here is a website to get you started though: http://dogaware.com/diet/homemade.html This website has a wealth of info. I would go through it thoroughly. Also, the book “Real Food for Dogs and Cats” by Dr. Becker would be worth purchasing in my opinion. It explains everything about what canine diets need and how to make them. There are recipes for raw and cooked meals.

Good luck and good for you for wanting to do the best for your new furbaby!

[kms]

Pattyvaughn –

I called the vet (Internal Medicine Specialist) about the yellow stool and they basically said they expected some messed up stool for a while. Then, as we were talking, I mentioned that I was starting to look at various diets to see which protein we might want to try 1st (once Augie is stabilized – hopefully in about 8 wks). She said “Absolutely not. Do not introduce any new ingredients. He should stay on Royal Canin for the rest of his life. The only thing I advise testing out are treats or chews, like a bully stick.”

I tried to carefully make a case for why we should do an elimination diet so that we can eventually move him to a better diet, but she was adamant. What do you make of this? Is this standard vet protocol for a dog with IBD? When you went through this, did your vet support the elimination diet and the hope of a rotation diet in the future? I’m just trying to figure out if I have unrealistic expectations – or if this vet does not have a strong background in nutrition. Thanks.

[theBCnut]

My vet told me it would take some trial and error to find the right diet for Micah. He told me to go high protein, moderate fat, grain free, low fiber. My vet sells Royal Canin and Hill’s, but he didn’t even suggest that I feed them.

[kms]

Then how did you stabilize Micah? Was there a food that he could tolerate and you just used that food as your base from which to test?

[theBCnut]

I switched him to Brother’s Complete. It’s specifically designed to help with gut problems. Soon after that I started giving him one raw meal a day. That’s how I tested out different proteins and such. For Micah, keeping him low starch seems to be a big component or keeping him stable. He can actually handle high fat just fine, but it took me a while to figure that out.

[Tucker]

Good Morning Everyone,

After all of my crazy debate in my head about the right food it ended up that Tucker had a terrible time with Earthborn Meadow Feast. Loose stool and smelled horrible!!! Poor little guy was doing the squat walk all over 🙁 Fed small quantities too. If it was that upsetting to him I figured we should abort. After a few days on the old he was back to normal.

We switched to Dr. Tim’s Kinesis ALS grain inclusive. He seems to be handling that perfectly! His poops are actually looking better in the transition than when just on the IAMS. Thank God 🙂

I noticed that the calcium level is lower than most at .97, but the phosphorus is also at .71. I’m not wonderful at math, but I’m guessing when you bump the ratio up calculating based on Phosphorus of 1 it gets it closer to the ideal 1.2:1? Tuck has Trauma induced OCD in his shoulder so I want to be safe with my levels for the best possible healing.

As far as toppers… Is there a list similar to the food list as far as what is good, how much, etc. So far we alternate… little scoop of pumpkin, 1/2 hardboiled egg, coconut oil once a week, dehydrated sprinkles on top, PetKind canned topper… One thing a week basically and just a little bit…

Thanks for the help as always…

[theBCnut]

I’ve recently read of someone else, Melissa I think, that had the same trouble with Meadow Feast.

I believe the ratio works out to 1.37:1

As long as you keep toppers to less than 20%, you aren’t supposed to have to worry about them. Of course the exception would be if you were giving something that was very high in phosphorus or calcium.

[loobija]

I have a GSD she is 10wks old, I want to know if its ok to feed her Authority (Grain free Adult)(chicken and potato Formula)? The protein has 26%.

[vaarde]

hii, i have a rottweiler puppy 3 months old, rite now im feeding her with dr clauders best in choice junior large (a brand from germany)
http://www.drclauders-uk.com/bc-junior-lbgiant/4575765927

is it safe for my dogs??

thank you

• This reply was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by vaarde.

[Sharon Buchanan]

loobija and vaarde ~
You need to read the articles that HDM has posted on page one of this thread. If you’re going to feed dry to your large breed puppies, you need to be feeding a low calcium/phosphorus kibble. Those articles, will tell you why. If you don’t want to read all of them, at least read Dr. Susan Lauter’s paper (#1), Dr. Henry Baker’s paper (#3 on the list), as well as Dr. Karen Becker’s article and watch her video (#5).

HDM also posted a list of Large Breed Puppy food here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFY183Q0NVRXlidWc/edit, to make it easy for you to research the best LBP food for your dog (and wallet). You can also Google Large Breed Puppy Food to find more. Your puppy is worth a little bit of homework.

Look for a food that has a minimum calcium content of .8% with a maximum around 1.2% (and don’t get hung up on AAFCO standards for calcium – they’re still behind the power curve when it comes to LBP nutrition). HDM’s list only provides minimum calcium content, you’ll need to go to the manufacture’s website to see if they list the maximum – some don’t, call them if you’re considering their food.

vaarde – Dr. Clauder’s adult food for LB “junior” dogs contains maize (corn), corn meal, rice, beet pulp, powdered egg, mussel powder. Filler grains, sugars and in the case of those two powders, nothing but dust. They also use sodium selenite as a source of selenium when they could be using a natural source – selenium yeast. Compare those ingredients with NRG Maxim for large breeds, or Canine Caviar, or…

loobija – you have a puppy, not an adult dog. Do not feed your LBP adult dog food and be very careful about feeding your puppy any “all life stages” food as well. Please read those articles. There is a reason why you need to select a formula designed specifically for large breed puppies. I do not like Authority’s LBP formula for some of the same reasons I don’t like Dr. Clauder’s and their minimum calcium is 1.3% when that is higher than what I would consider as a maximum amount.

Personally, having read all the articles that HDM posted links to – and I found them independent of this fantastic forum, (be sure to thank her for making your research easier), I believe the closer you can stay to .8% calcium the better. LBP kibble formulas will have the correct calcium/phosphorus ratio (1.2:1).

Look for foods that have named meat “meals” (chicken meal, salmon meal, etc.) in many of the first five ingredients as possible. Avoid unnamed anything (meat meal, fish meal, poultry-by-product), grains and fillers (wheat, corn, glutens), and sugars and starches (beets, potatoes). Try to find foods with natural supplements and no preservatives. If you don’t don’t what an ingredient is, look it up. For example: menadione sodium bisulfite complex (synthetic vs. natural Vit K), sodium selenite (vs. selenium yeast).

Kibble is a mine field. Make sure you subscribe to DogFoodAdvisor’s recall alerts: /dog-food-recall-alerts/. You can also find a wealth of information regarding pet food manufacturing practices (what they’re doing right, mostly wrong, how the FDA and the AAFCO really aren’t concerned about what goes into your pet food, recalls, etc.), at truthaboutpetfood.com.

Finally, I would recommend you read just the few pages that have been started in the forums here on feeding raw to large breed puppies: /forums/topic/feeding-raw-non-commercial-to-large-breed-puppies/page/2/#post-33708.

[theBCnut]

Some LBP formulas are still not appropriate for LBPs, because they are also low calorie so the calcium is more than 3.5g/1000kcal. That’s why many LBP formulas did not make Hound Dog Mom’s list. She tried to contact every company that has 4 and 5 star foods on this site and ask for “as fed” calcium levels. Some companies did not respond to her request, so they may have appropriate foods, but didn’t make the list. Most foods that didn’t make the list were too high in calcium.

[jewels]

Hello everyone! I have been using the list of recommended food for my standard poodle puppy (who is now 7 months). He has been on Instinct Prairie LBP kibble and consistently has loose stool on this food (yes I switched slowly and he has had time to adjust). I plan to start switching him to another kibble and am able to get Wellness Puppy and LBP kibble at my local Petco. I only see the Wellness Puppy on the list… is the LBP new or was it intentionally left off the list due to higher than recommended calcium? Does anyone know? Thanks!

[Sharon Buchanan]

jewels ~
The reason Wellness’s LBP formula is not on the list is because the list only includes grain-free formulas.

If you’re going to feed Wellness, their grain inclusive LBP food claims a min/max calcium of 1.1/1.5% with no less that 26% protein. Their Core, grain free recipe for puppies (non-specific of target size), claims no more than 1.5% calcium and no less than 36% protein. Since the max calcium is the same, it’s probably safe to assume the Core Puppy formula will be alright to feed a LBP.

At seven months old, you could move your poodle to the Core Large Breed Adult formula which has a max calcium of 2% and minimum 34% protein. And since the ingredients are essentially the same for the Core Puppy and Core LBA, either recipe would be fine at this point though, if my only choice was Wellness, I would keep a seven month old on the puppy formula at least a few more months.

If your puppy continues to have loose stools and there is no medical reason for it, you might try adding a tablespoon of plain pumpkin to his food – don’t use pie filling, until his stools normalize. Make sure he’s not outside eating wild mushrooms, bunny poop or turkey poop or any other critter poop if you live in a rural area.

[Duke The Boxer]

Careful sharon because the way HDM calculated the percentages of the calcium is from usuing this formula
1)Multiply calcium% by 1000g. That gives you the grams of calcium/kg
2)Divide the grams of calcium/kg by the kcal/kg for the food. That gives you the grams of calcium/kcal.
3)Multiply the grams of calcium/kcal by 1000/1000. That gives you grams of calcium/1000kcal.

Ive calculated food that say the max calcium is 1.5% but after the calculations the food was over the 3.5g of calcium per 1000kcal

[jewels]

Thanks Sharon! I just noticed that the Wellness LBP food that I purchased (still unopened so I could return it) does NOT say “Core” on the package… just Wellness LBP. I assume that this is the grain inclusive formula and the Core is the grain free formula? I did not see a Core Puppy or Core LBP at the store, just the regular Wellness Puppy and LBP. The Core formula is the one recommended on the list, correct? But if I understood you right, the regular LBP formula does have the correct calcium levels, it’s just lower in protein than the Core? I’m sure I have other options than Wellness, but my options are limited unless I order online. I’m in a small town and Petco is my only option to buy locally. He’s been on the NV Prairie LBP for a few months and he likes it, but his poop is always mushy. He seems to be healthy otherwise, but picking up mushy poop is no fun. 🙂 I have tried the NV Instinct in the Rabbit formula and he didn’t like it. I also tried the NV Instinct LID Turkey and he ate it fine but his poops weren’t much different than on the Prairie. Maybe it’s just the NV brand that doesn’t sit well with him, which is why I thought I’d rotate to a different brand this time and see what happens. He didn’t have mushy poops when I got him, but the breeder was feeding a mixture of Eukanuba and Pro Plan Select adult foods… which I didn’t want to continue with. Should I try the pumpkin first before I change foods? Does the pumpkin “fix” the problem or do you have to continually use pumpkin in order to maintain? The other food options at my local Petco are Halo’s Spot Stew and Pinnacle (other than the NV and Wellness brands). I might be able to find Innova but I’m not sure. Any preferences between those brands? If I were to order online and could therefore get any brand, would that change the preferences? Thanks again for any and all help! I’d like to find a few brands I can rotate through that he likes, does well on, and doesn’t give him mushy poop!

[jewels]

Duke The Boxer, I just saw your post. Now I’m unsure what to do! I guess I should just assume that the Wellness Core Puppy formula is the only safe option in that brand?

[Sharon Buchanan]

Duke ~
I read HDM’s calculations, but she also stated that she contacted each company to obtain actual calcium levels. She further states in another post that companies were excluded if they would not/could not provide actual calcium. Wellness on her list shows an actual 1.23% which falls within the min/max that they provide on their website. Both figures/calculations should then be considered reliable for choosing the Wellness Core Grain Free Puppy formula over their grain inclusive LBP formula.

I was addressing the percentage of calcium in the food (which, agreeing with Dr. Baker, should be closest to .8%), you are addressing grams. These figures are naturally going to be different.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by Sharon Buchanan.

[lmnordrum]

Jewels: I order from Chewy.com and love them and their service and the food shows up here two days after I order it. My Giant Schnauzer pup is on Wellness Core Puppy and she’s got a great coat and no problems with the BMs. She’s been on this food since I brought her home at 8 weeks. (And I found that food via this list as well as all the great info from HDM and PattyVaughn.)

[Lablubber]

Rick Rankin

So can somebody make it simple for me and please tell me on the kibble end of it. If you were just starting out with a lab puppy and wanted to feed him the best kibble… What is the best overall choice. Orijen, Acana, Annamaet, Earthborn Holistic, Go! Fit & Free, Wellness or Dr Something or whatever for a 13 week old Lab puppy. I have read to oblivion on what is best. I have read every persons articles about what is recommended and I am even more confused now and becoming quite desperate watching my grow and hopefully do well.

As I said I tried to switch over to a good food and switched to Blue Lg. Breed Puppy and then only to find out that it too was too high in calcium after all the 20 days of transitioning to another food.

I do plan to slowly work over to some raw diet when I feel knowledgeable enough to do so…Mainly on his evening meals and I have tried some of the stuff PattyVaughn recommend for him as well as adding it to his kibble as toppers to his food to see how he reacted to it and so far so good. But for me and my lack of knowledge, I am just afraid that to jump off completely in the Raw scene because you also need to know that I take this dog with me 24/7. He goes everywhere I go and I also take him to work with me as well. Plus he is already training hard every day with all of his retriever work and obedience training. So then with the very limited knowledge that I have on this subject and the conditions that I am involved in, a totally raw diet would almost be impossible for me to do right now….Plus I am afraid I would not have enough knowledge to give him and provided everything that he needs as far as supplementations that go along with it for a lg. breed growing puppy. Especially when I want to be extra careful on the calcium end of it and then again saying that… I also don’t want to under nourish him in anyway whatsoever either.

So could I just plead for someone’s mercy and wisdom in this situation and please recommend the best kibble for a 13 week old lab puppy and then if you don’t mind, share with me where the best place is to order it…. Because as most all of you warned me….My local pet stores carry very little healthy lg. breed puppy food and all the local vets carry is Science Diet and Royal Canin or something like that and when you read their ingredients, none of them meet the requirements…

So then…Could someone please come to my rescue and help someone in a pinch here, because I am down to about the last 8 # of the food that I have and so now would be the time to transition to another one. I have learned tons from all of you guys but for me time is of the essence because I want this pup to have the best I can get for him with the limited amount of knowledge that I do have on board.

Thanks Lablubber

[lmnordrum]

Lablubber: I was very overwhelmed too! Had advice to feed raw but it is impractical for me and frankly it grosses me out. After a lot of reading, including every post on this forum including the external articles, I decided to feed Wellness Core Puppy (grain free.) My dog loves it, she has a great coat and no issues with the BMs. I order it from Chewy.com .

My dog was being fed Royal Canin puppy by the breeder and although I tried to mix the food at the beginning, the dog just picked out the Wellness and left the Royal Canin in the bowl. I said the heck with it and just quit the Royal Canin and fed the Wellness and she never had a problem.

For low-value treats and training I’m feeding Earthborn Holistic Meadow Feast. For high value treats I’m just buying meat and cooking it and putting it in the freezer. Its cheaper to buy chuck roast than it is to get dog snacks.

Hope this helps!

[BernerdAd]

Dear Lablubber:

If you do not mind the price — Canine Caviar Open Sky – (grain free) – Order it from Chewy.com. If you want to make sure it says the absolute fresh order two 12 lbs bags.
Shipping is free and no tax for most states. It is rated 4.5 and on the list for Large Breed Puppy.

/dog-food-reviews/canine-caviar-grain-free/

I have bernese mountain dogs — and some of the top breeders in the country use this brand – as I have polled them.

[Sharon Buchanan]

jewels~
Sorry for what seems like conflicting/confusing information – it shouldn’t be as I was addressing the percentage of calcium in the Wellness formulas, Duke is addressing the grams of calcium that percentage represents in the food.

If you haven’t opened the bag, PetCo will take it back – actually, they’ll take it back even if you have opened it. If you have a couple days worth of NV left, I can agree with Imnordrum regarding ordering from Chewy. They have excellent customer service and I’ve always received everything within two days as well.

PetCo should carry Innova LBP if you’re considering that, which has one of the lowest calcium/phosphorus ratios – closest to what Dr. Henry Baker recommends (see article #3 on HDM’s list on the first page). Their food is not the best, but certainly better than Purina or Iams, Science Diet…

My primary concern when I first brought Mystery home was calcium, since we already had a Golden that required double-hip surgery, so I put him on the Innova LBP. When he was about seven months old, I switched him to Orijen LBP which has a higher calcium, but only as an interim food while I researched raw, which he is now on. If I had not gone raw, he’d still be on Orijen LBP formula until he was two and then over to Orijen’s adult formulas. Orijen is grain-free, preservative-free and synthetic-free. You won’t find Orijen at PetCo. Only one of my five cats likes raw so they’re all on Orijen Cat and Kitten. (No, I don’t work for Orijen – it’s just the best I can find at a price I can afford.) I’ve had no dietary issues with either the cats or Mystery from any of the foods I’ve fed.

As for the pumpkin, if there are no medical reasons for your pup to have loose stools (I don’t know what they would be except for my experience with Sunset having eaten rabbit poop), a tablespoon of plain pumpkin will help. I never had to give more than two tablespoons, even when Sunset did clean up after the rabbits.

[jewels]

Thanks everyone! I will look in to Chewy.com as well as see if my Petco carries the Innova brand. 🙂

[Sharon Buchanan]

Lablubber ~
No one can tell you definitively what to feed your puppy. We all have opinions based on our limited or extensive research and experience. When we brought our first Golden home, we fed puppy food – I don’t remember exactly what but it was easily available in the commissary so probably just junk. She required double-hip surgery before she was two.

When we decided to add another Golden – Mystery, I spent two months researching large breed nutrition, even before we decided on him. I read every article that HDM has conveniently posted on page one here (though I found them independent of this site), created my own table of foods, listing proteins, fats, calcium/phosphorus ratios/percentages, grains/no grains and so on. Based on that initial research I chose a food. I continued my research, signed up for newsletters, magazines, etc., and eventually chose a different food. As my research continued, I switched my cats to better foods as well. And I continue researching ways to feed my babies the best ways possible.

I appreciate so much all the advice I get from everyone in the DogFoodAdvisor forums, but the decision to purchase food A or food B is ultimately mine. Any suggestions from anyone are not taken blindly – I still go to the manufacturer’s website, look at their ingredients, lookup an ingredient I’m not familiar with, check to make sure there are no known controversies or issues with those ingredients (for example: the link between rosemary extract and seizures in humans, canola oil and cancer, synthetic vs. natural supplement sources), where they come from, how they’re processed, what temp they’re cooked at. All of this is taken into account before I purchase anything.

Now, I understand if you don’t have that kind of time. But you’re here for a reason – you want to feed your dog the best that you possibly can (which is why you’re considering raw!). So, find a just bit of time to look at some of the kibble recommendations that folks have made. I haven’t seen anyone say that Purina or Iams or Science Diet or Royal Canin or Blue are acceptable foods so the recommendations you do find here are all going to be good to excellent choices. I’ve stated my preference a number of times – Orijen, but that doesn’t make Earthborn or Wellness or Canine Caviar bad foods. Open up a few separate browser windows and do a side-by-side comparison to see what you think is best, check Chewy.com prices and you’ll make the right decision for you and your pup.

Now, if you’re wanting to find out more about raw, there’s plenty of information here – I’m already smarter about feeding Mystery raw for the time I’ve spent asking questions and reading responses. But I’ve also signed up for a weekend-long web conference being hosted by DogsNaturallyMagazine.com at the end of this month called Raw Roundup. Experts in the field will be presenting any number of topics on feeding raw and I have started a list of questions to ask in case they are not addressed during the sessions.

You can do this!

[Lablubber]

Thank you guys for all of your quick responses and I sure hope I don’t get associated with being lazy but you know what? I go to a doctor who is very much into natural cures and holistic medicine as was my mother. And so I take a complete array of herbal medicine and my health, blood work and every part of my being has improved greatly so I continue in this approach.

But when I came here, my dog was on puppy chow from the breeder who raved about it as well as my own vet. recommended it as well unless I wanted to switch to Royal Canin. Upon coming here in just a short time, I started transitioning to what I thought was a great food from all I had read on my own, which was a bad choice so I referred to what you guys suggested and quickly learned my wisdom was severely lacking and I needed to make another change…..

So that is why I am now asking to not make another mistake. I am taking newsletters from Raw folks, holistic vets, folks in the know such as you but trying to disseminate it all has really become quite confusing….One says, it causes yellow stools and the next says it contains one bad ingredient…Garlic, rosemary extract, some chemical that is bad and so then when I am just about decided on what I want to switch to next before the raw… Boom then here comes another post from someone I respect as very knowledgeable in this field and there I am back to square one again…

and so really I just want to cut to the chase because I am at the point food wise that in order to transition to another brand or type…. I have to move quickly or otherwise I will have to go buy more Blue to accomplish that and I don’t want to do that.

So I just looked at Chewy.com and wished I would have gone there long ago and I will order several different bags just to try and see how he does on them and if one seems to agree with him better than the other, that you guys recommended than I will stick with that or use both and switch them in and out as I converge over to raw.

Thank you all so very much for your help…

The Lablubber

[Duke The Boxer]

Hello yes the formula that I gave you guys is the formula that you can use to take any food and check out to see if it is too much calcium for a LBP which is a maximum of 3.5gs/1000kcal. All of the foods that are on HDM’s list are appropriate for our puppies. I had very good success with wellness core puppy and earthborn coastal catch. Duke is now a year old and is in excellent condition due to HDM’s list.

[Sharon Buchanan]

Lablubber, I hope you don’t think I was inferring that you were lazy. Certainly if you were, you wouldn’t have found this forum. I know that at this point in my life, I just happen to have a little more time to spend on reading and researching that I didn’t have before (though I have been ignoring the tumblefurs rolling all over my house lately).

My point is, that how ever busy you may be, that last decision – which food you’ll choose to feed your pup, must be your own. While I’m happy to tell you what works for me and what I know, I would not want to make that decision for you.

Devoting a little extra time, even if just an hour, to compare the brands that have been suggested by folks here will pay off in puppy years. And, as Duke said, all the foods on HDM’s list are appropriate for LBPs, we each just have differences as to which is appropriate for OUR puppy. You’ll find the right fit for yours.

Let us know what finally works for you.

[Sully’sMom]

Additionally Lablubber, each puppy is different! As Sharon said, all of the foods on the list are good foods, but one will work better for your puppy than mine and vice versa. Sully is now coming up to 2 (gasp), so we’re off the puppy foods, but I’ve fed him Fromm LBP, Earthborn varieties, Merrick, etc. Right now we’re rotating among Earthborn, Infinia, and NutriSource, bison, salmon and lamb varieties. All grain-free. Important for Sully because he is allergic to storage mites and they are less likely to occur with grain free.

And I concur, Chewy is great! And right behind them is PetFlow. I use both. Good luck!

[Newfs]

Hi,
mine near 11 monthly Newfoundland is fed Fromm Family Gold and very nicely grows on her (the last bag is Fromm Gold Adult Dog) . Unfortunately the fodder ends, and it is not known when will be the delivery 🙁 . On this period to the fly to change him the fodder. I know that these which to the pre-pond have a content of cereals, but these which are in Poland and do not have cereals, and have a suitable quantity of the limestone {calcium} are in cosmic prices. Please for the prompt which from fodders would be for him best:
– Enova ADULT Breeders BAG GRAIN-FREE SIMPLE!
Complete food without cereal with fresh chicken meat. It can be administered to dogs from 2 months to 7 years old.
food without grains
addition of fresh chicken meat (min. 20%)
contains glucosamine and chondroitin supplement
Ingredients: dried chicken meat (min. 23.3%), fresh chicken meat (min. 20%), potato flour, dried green peas, chicken fat, dried beet pulp, flaxseed, dried egg protein hydrolyzate, dried yeast, fish oil, dried carrots, dried tomato puree, dried seaweed, sodium chloride, glucosamine, chondroitin.
Analytical constituents: crude protein – 31.5%, oils and fats – 19.5%, crude fiber – 3,5%, crude ash – 6,5%, calcium – 1.25%, phosphorus – 0.95% , moisture – 10.0%.
Extras: antioxidants. Dietary supplements in 1 kg of feed: Vitamin A – 15,000 IU Vitamin D3 – 1200 IU Vitamin E – 150 mg Copper (as copper sulphate pentahydrate) – 10 mg.
Analysis
protein: 31.5%
fat: 19.5%
Crude fiber 3.5%
ash 6.5%
humidity 10.0%
omega – 6 2.7%
Chondroitin 250 mg / kg
calcium 1.25%
phosphorus 1.0% – 0.95%
copper 10 mg / kg
selenium 0.2 mg / kg
iodine 2 mg / kg
Vitamin A 15,000 IU / kg
Vitamin D3 1200 IU / kg
Vitamin E 150 IU / kg
Niacin 135 mg / kg
– http://www.enovapetfood.com/photoVideoGallery.aspx?cid=4685&mid=18465
– http://www.farmina.com/?q=en/content/product/chicken-pomegranade
– http://www.farmina.com/?q=en/content/product/nd-ancestral-dog-codfish-orange-31
– http://www.samsfield.com/adult-large
– http://www.samsfield.com/adult-salmon
– http://eshop.fitmin.cz/en/Products/Detail/FITMIN-11210921/Fitmin-dog-Solution-RabbitandRice-13kg
– http://eshop.fitmin.cz/en/Products/Detail/FITMIN-11210921/Fitmin-dog-Solution-SalmonandPotato-13kg
What do you feel about above-fodders ?

[Lablubber]

Hi Crew

This is what I ordered to try the two either alternating or a mix of the two if he has no trouble with either of them… But I am introducing some cooked hamburger and ground turkey as well as spinach and going to buy some of the stuff you have to rehydrate to start with for the ease of carrying it with me.

One thing that I have had a hard time with was the a lot of the food has no no’s in it that you guys have told me about and I have read about as well such as Rosemary Extract or Oil- Seizures, Canola Oil-Cancer, Garlic – Anemia, and the first thing Rosemary which even rules out Wellness Core Puppy even though it was on the list and I was going to get it an Orijen both as alternates or as a mix. What is strange now is I am driving all of my friends nuts on what treats they buy their dogs and the food that they are feeding them as well.

One thing that is definitely noticable with Jess is that he has thinned down dramatically since coming off of Pupina LB Puppy Chow and he is very lean which I personally have a hard time getting use to because I have always had nice, big, rolly polly, lab puppies and I guess it was just fornate that I have never had one with a hip or shoulder or elbow issue, except with one of my old females, she was English Bred Lab and she was as big as a horse and in her old age she around 10 or 12 she did start having a slight limp in her rear end but that was it. So this this whole thing is a new ballgame for me….With keeping a LBP looking like a lean and mean greyhound instead of a huge big old lab like i always liked to see. Bigger has always been better to me, but what did I know.

I just have to get rid of a whole lot of old school ways and ways of thinking, that now have to be reprogrammed in me, but guess what? you guys were knowledgeable enough about this whole thing and the backed it up with factual evidence and because I love my dogs enough I had to take heed and listen and am glad I did… Because I would hate to see this pup or for that matter my either of my two Westies or Custard the Cat, developing cancer because of Monsanto’s genetically muted or altered grain, being in their food or them developing hip or shoulder or elbow issues because I was too stubborn to listen to you guys about Calcium issues with it’s uptake in LBP’s. So thank all of you for that as well for giving me a quick education in what is best for my dog and for making me dig deep on my own into what what all the leading specialists say about these things as well…

This is the kibble I ordered yesterday from Chewy to transition over to from Blue…

1 x Orijen Puppy Large Breed Grain-Free Dry Dog Food, 28.6-lb bag
1 x Annamaet Grain-Free Salcha Poulet Formula Dry Dog Food, 30-lb bag

Thanks Lablubber

[Lablubber]

Hi Again Crew

So can I also ask without sounding stupid… Why can’t a person who does the raw diet for their dogs, just buy their raw meat stuff through a reputable meat market and get the additives/suppliments through a speciality pet supply to add to their food… Is it just the cost difference? Or what is the reasoning behind it? Just curious???

The Lablubber

[Sharon Buchanan]

Lablubber ~
Just a bit of additional info on some of the ingredients I mentioned that I look out for.

1. Rosemary Extract – Our oldest Golden started having seizures when she was about 3 years old. As Sunset got older her seizures increased so our vet put her on Phenobarbital, a dosage I eventually decreased as she seemed dazed most of the time. When I started researching food for our newest Golden, I discovered an article on the relationship between rosemary extract and increased seizures in humans that have them. If rosemary extract can exacerbate seizures in humans, it goes that it would do the same in a dog with seizures. I immediately got ahold of my husband in Korea and told him to stop feeding Blue Wilderness. Unfortunately, he’s at the mercy of the commissary and they just don’t have any quality foods. As it turned out, she died from cancer at the end of January, she was almost 11. Some dog foods list rosemary, others list rosemary extract. I avoided all extract recipes when I was trying to find a better food for Sunset. There was no indication that rosemary extract causes seizures so it isn’t a concern with Mystery nor the Golden my husband recently adopted. If either started seizing, then rosemary would be a concern again.

2. Canola Oil – We love our Goldens. In the United States, about 69% of all Golden Retrievers over the age of two will die from cancer. Our Sunset joined that 69%. Mystery is an English Creme Golden Retriever. Both of his parents are from Russia. European Goldens have a cancer mortality rate of about 36%. Mystery is enrolled in the Morris Foundation Lifetime Golden Retriever Study on cancer. They have told me there are a few other English Cremes in the study and they’re hoping to find out why there is such a disparity between the two types (having lived in three different European countries, I suspect environment and food are most likely). I feel it is my responsibility to ensure my pup dies from old age, not cancer so it is important to me to avoid even a breath of a link between an ingredient and cancer. Canola is one of those ingredients. This article: http://cancercompassalternateroute.com/diet/avoid-canola-oil/ will tell you more about the relationship between GMOs, rapeseed, canola oil and cancer. It’s not the only one, but it’s clear.

3. Garlic – One I didn’t mention, but there are enough conflicting views on it that I took time to look it up last year. Just like onions and chocolate, I don’t give my babies fresh garlic. I do however, add it to his diet as a garlic supplement because I believe that in the correct form and amount, it has benefits.

As to your most recent post regarding sources for raw food – I moved my answer over to the LBP topic at the raw forum since it’s more appropriate there. You can find it here: /forums/topic/feeding-raw-non-commercial-to-large-breed-puppies/page/2/#post-33978 It’s only one of seven pages of topics on feeding raw that you’ll find helpful.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by Sharon Buchanan.

[Newfs]

Hello,
I recall to my question.
Very counting on your answers.
Regards
Newfs
” Hi,
mine near 11 monthly Newfoundland is fed Fromm Family Gold and very nicely grows on her (the last bag is Fromm Gold Adult Dog) . Unfortunately the fodder ends, and it is not known when will be the delivery 🙁 . On this period to the fly to change him the fodder. I know that these which to the pre-pond have a content of cereals, but these which are in Poland and do not have cereals, and have a suitable quantity of the limestone {calcium} are in cosmic prices. Please for the prompt which from fodders would be for him best:
– Enova ADULT Breeders BAG GRAIN-FREE SIMPLE!
Complete food without cereal with fresh chicken meat. It can be administered to dogs from 2 months to 7 years old.
food without grains
addition of fresh chicken meat (min. 20%)
contains glucosamine and chondroitin supplement
Ingredients: dried chicken meat (min. 23.3%), fresh chicken meat (min. 20%), potato flour, dried green peas, chicken fat, dried beet pulp, flaxseed, dried egg protein hydrolyzate, dried yeast, fish oil, dried carrots, dried tomato puree, dried seaweed, sodium chloride, glucosamine, chondroitin.
Analytical constituents: crude protein – 31.5%, oils and fats – 19.5%, crude fiber – 3,5%, crude ash – 6,5%, calcium – 1.25%, phosphorus – 0.95% , moisture – 10.0%.
Extras: antioxidants. Dietary supplements in 1 kg of feed: Vitamin A – 15,000 IU Vitamin D3 – 1200 IU Vitamin E – 150 mg Copper (as copper sulphate pentahydrate) – 10 mg.
Analysis
protein: 31.5%
fat: 19.5%
Crude fiber 3.5%
ash 6.5%
humidity 10.0%
omega – 6 2.7%
Chondroitin 250 mg / kg
calcium 1.25%
phosphorus 1.0% – 0.95%
copper 10 mg / kg
selenium 0.2 mg / kg
iodine 2 mg / kg
Vitamin A 15,000 IU / kg
Vitamin D3 1200 IU / kg
Vitamin E 150 IU / kg
Niacin 135 mg / kg
– http://www.enovapetfood.com/photoVideoGallery.aspx?cid=4685&mid=18465
– http://www.farmina.com/?q=en/content/product/chicken-pomegranade
– http://www.farmina.com/?q=en/content/product/nd-ancestral-dog-codfish-orange-31
– http://www.samsfield.com/adult-large
– http://www.samsfield.com/adult-salmon
– http://eshop.fitmin.cz/en/Products/Detail/FITMIN-11210921/Fitmin-dog-Solution-RabbitandRice-13kg
– http://eshop.fitmin.cz/en/Products/Detail/FITMIN-11210921/Fitmin-dog-Solution-SalmonandPotato-13kg
What do you feel about above-fodders ? “

[theBCnut]

Hi Newfs
At your dogs age, he doesn’t need special puppy food anymore so work on finding the foods that he does best on. Find a few different brands with different protein and starch sources and rotate between them. Rotating foods helps to keep the gut healthy and strong. Try to stick with foods that have higher protein and lower carbohydrates. You can also add higher protein healthy foods like eggs and sardines.

[RescueDaneMom]

Hi Newfs,

Where are you located? I believe no one has responded yet because these dog foods aren’t available in the US where most of us are. The Farmina brand has been reviewed on this site but only the grain-free varieties. They received 5 stars. /dog-food-reviews/farmina-nd-grain-free-dog-food/

As Patty said, your dog is old enough now that you don’t have to worry about feeding a food appropriate for large breed puppy growth. This is what I look for in a good dog food: 30% or more protein with named meat or meat meals (ie chicken and chicken meal) and grain-free (some grains are ok if your dog does well with them, I still wouldn’t feed grains all the time).

The Enova food that you posted the analysis for looks good. The two Farmina links you posted look like good foods too. All 3 of those foods have 30% protein or higher. I prefer higher protein foods. I don’t like the Sam’s Field foods because they are lower protein. I would not feed the Fitmin foods. The Salmon & Potato has WAY too much potato (40%) and low protein. The first and major ingredient should be protein not carbohydrate. The Fitmin Rabbit & Rice has the same problem but to a lesser extent. It has 28% rice and 25% meat. Still to much carbohydrate and low protein. I would avoid foods with that much carbohydrate.

Bottomline: The Enova and Farmina foods look good. If you want to feed more variety, look for foods similar to those. Stay away from foods that have more carbohydrates than protein.

I hope that answered your questions and was helpful.

[Author]

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