[dmmal]

2 questions: soft stool and gas and rotation
– when can we start rotating food for large puppy. Tienan is 7 months. Introduced new food Now Fresh ,this week in 3 days and no problem He had been on Orijen for 5 months. Can I introduce another food when this bag is almost done?
– on Orijen his stool was softer and we was passing lots of gas. Does this means too much protein for him?

[theBCnut]

You can do a rotational diet any time. The gas may be because of all the peas, beans, lentils, but really stronge smell has to do with how he was digesting the protein. Not too much protein, but rather too little of the enzymes and probiotics needed.

[GSDGuy]

Orijen puppy large breed or solid gold large breed puppy ? For a gsd 12wks I was thinking orijen

[WatsonsMom]

Hi HDM. Thanks so much for all the research you do. It has been so helpful. Just a question. What do you think about Fromm Large Breed Puppy? I know the calcium levels are appropriate but it’s not grain free. But do you think the nutrition is good for a large breed puppy? I have a 10 month old boxer mix who is about 68 lbs or so and definitely does not look like he is done growing. He eats 6 cups/day otherwise he looks emaciated!! And yes I’ve had him tested and he is worm-free. Whatever he is mixed with is definitely larger than a boxer. Anyways, he has been getting Fromm Large Breed puppy since he was about 4.5 months old. When I first got him at 3.5 mos I put him on TOTW Pacific stream puppy and he did well with it but the vet wanted me to put him on large breed puppy. I then tried Wellness large breed puppy and he did not do well with that. He has been on Fromm Large Breed Puppy since. He looks pretty healthy and eats his food fine. But I still worry b/c I want him as healthy as possible. And I love that Fromm has never had a recall (would never do TOTW again b/c of their recalls). I’m hesitant to put him on adult food just yet b/c he has not matured (and vet suggested at least a year). But I will say I bought a small bag of Salmon Tunalini and replaced a 1/2 of his food with this and his poop was way firmer. I think he might do best on grain free but grain free puppies have too much calcium. Anyways, just wondering what you think about Fromm large breed puppy. I plan on switching him to their grain free formulas once he’s matured.

[theBCnut]

All Life Stages foods are puppy foods.

[Hganurs]

Hound dog mom… Please advise.
We have a 13 week multi generation labradoodle ( this is our 4th one, and our last 2 lived to be 15 years old till this year). We are mixing ( transitioning ) some leftover Life’s abundance puppy kibble given by breeder, and changing over to Kirklands puppy kibble ( we had never had an issue with our 2 that ate kirkland for 15 years). But naturally, we took him to puppy class at Petco and the mgr saw him licking his paw and said ‘ he has food allergies…, here you need to switch him to Merrick … Try the lamb…’ She was very knowledgable about staying away from foods that cause allergies ( corn, chicken , wheat). So we paid $50 for a 30lb bag of kibble !!!! We have not opened it because I’m JUST not convinced that we need to change food. He has a vet appt in a week and his treats for training adont have corn in them either. Side note is we are getting another doodle puppy in April so we need to keep the food the same since they will be eating together.
Thank you

[Hganurs]

Sorry.. One more thing HDM.. Our doodles will be about 80lbs grown so they are large breed puppies 🙂 he is 20 lbs now at 13 weeks

[Murphysmom]

I scoured this thread back in September when I was choosing a food for our 8 week golden retriever puppy, it was so helpful! We transitioned him to Wellness Core Puppy and his stools began getting softer as the transition progressed. (breeder had him on something from Sam’s Club, can’t find the name, nothing good from what I remember when it mentioned in thread, but his stools were FIRM when he was only on this) Anyhow, he’s now 16 weeks old, stools are still loose, I’ve tried adding probiotics and read that I should add enzymes so will try that. For some reason, the updated large breed puppy food list won’t open on my computer…..we are reaching the bottom of Wellness bag and thinking a switch is in order…wondering if anyone can suggest a calcium safe puppy food that would help with loose stools?? Also, any recommendations on enzyme? Thanks for your help! As I can’t access updated list, I’m stuck and I have got to get a new bag ordered!

[DogFoodie]

Hi Murphysmom,

I just sent you two emails. Check your SPAM folder also.

[coscowgirl]

Greetings…have a question…what dry dog food would you recommend for an 8 mos old irish wolfhound female, who already weighs over 80 lbs & is 33″ at the withers?? Would like to give her a good quality puppy food at a good price……Thanks for your info & advice!!

[InkedMarie]

coscowgirl: I recommend you send me your dog and let me worry about it. No? LOL, I tried! Scroll to, I think, page 15 of this topic and look at the list of appropriate foods that HoundDogMom spent months researching. Good luck!

[lilyh]

Murphysmom, my English Setter puppy had loose stools on Wellness Core Puppy also. I mixed in pumpkin, yogurt, prebiotics to no effect. I really wanted to love Wellness Core but it just didn’t work for Annie. We ended up switching her to Nutrisource Large Breed Puppy. It is not grain-free (chicken & rice, the packaging still says corn gluten but it has actually been removed and any bag with an expiration date after Nov 2014 does not have it in it. The manufacturer legally has 6 months to update the packaging). Anyway, it is cheaper than Wellness and she is doing well on it in terms of stool consistency. Lots of other options out there, but just wanted to share with you what worked for us.

[theBCnut]

Coscowgirl
Earthborn Holistic Meadow Feast

• This reply was modified 11 years ago by theBCnut.

[Monica]

Ok, so I’ve been reading through the posts and am in need of some advise. I’m very concerned about what I am feeding my pup. He is a 6 month old Alaskan Malamute. We had some digestive issues which has subsided since feeding Acana Pacifica. He gets 2.5 cups a day. I also add 2 oz. raw goats milk for pro/prebiotics daily. After reading this, I’m concerned about protein and calcium ratios. Protein is 33%. Calcium/phosphorous ratio is 1.5 to 1.3. Is this a good diet? He recently developed a limp and vet stated possible pano, hence the diet concern. But I’m not convinced it is pano. Couple weeks before limp he really fell and tweaked leg. Any thoughts?

[theBCnut]

My thought was that your vet should be able to diagnose pano, so if he thought it was pano, I would listen. All Acana formulas are too high in calcium and while I love raw goats milk, I’m not sure if it helps with the calcium equation. Pick a food from this list.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?srcid=0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk&pid=explorer&efh=false&a=v
This is Hound Dog Mom’s list of foods that have the correct calcium levels for large breed growth. Earthborn Holistic Coastal Catch is on the list and might be comparable.

[Parr]

I have a question about the protein levels in the foods on the list for large breed dogs. I read that higher protein levels are better, but am not sure of the minimums.

A few days ago I wrote in about my 15 month old German Shepherd, Abbey, having an itching problem. I loved all my responses and have been happy with the Earthborn Meadow Feast choice I made for her and so is she. Most of her itching and gone away in the last week. I think it is because this is chicken free, grain free and potato free food. i tried to cover my bases to get a quick fix for her and it seems to be working so far. I also want to rotate her diet, something I never knew until I started reading all the wonderful postings here on DFA. This makes total sense to me and I think this may be part of the reason Abbey got her problems from eating only one food for the last year, Wellness Large Breed Puppy.

As I have looked through the foods on the list the next food I plan to rotate in is, Instinct, either Rabbit or Turkey LID. The Rabbit has 27% protein and the Turkey has 29% protein. The Earthborn Meadow Feast is only 26% protein. After reading in several threads that higher protein is better I wanted to better understand what those, protein levels should be. I want to select a food that is on both the large breed list and the no chicken, no grain and no potato list as well, since she has done so well with the Earthborn Meadow Feast.

I know there is much involved in determining which foods are better for a large breed, which is why I am ever so, grateful that HDM took an incredible amount of time, I am sure, to create this list in the first place. Now I just need to know how to make a selection from this list that best suits Abbey’s sensitivities. Do I need to worry about these lower protein levels?

[mfulton7]

I have been feeding my pups Earthborn Hollistic Coastal Catch for about 4 weeks or so now. I have the Doberman pup (14wks), shihpoo pup (9 mth), and Chihuahua (2 yr). Since the dogs have been on it the dobie and shihpoo have really bad room clearing gas and the dobie has loose stools every other day or so. Another food they’ve been on was the Zignature Trout and the dobie had loose stools with that also. Should I try another food or another flavor of the Earthborn Hollistic? Weve also been noticing the dobie seems itchy a lot. Bites at her paws, scratches her backside Im thinking she scratched so much she caused scabbing on the backs of her front legs. I was thinking most dogs don’t develop allergies until theyre older? I know that the fawn dobies are more prone to skin issues so maybe that is causing it?

[theBCnut]

My dog with intolerances had them from the day I got him at 8 weeks old, so I have to assume he had them before that. True allergies usually develop later, but I don’t think that is necessarily the case with intolerances. Take the ingredient list with you to the store and try to find a food that is very different, different proteins and different carbs. Also, get him on digestive enzymes, they help with the gas, and a good multistrain probiotic, they help heal the gut, which is where a lot of these issues start and get worse and worse. If you want a recommendation for those, Swanson’s has a couple of probiotics that are good, Dr Stephen Langer’s and Soil Based Organisms. Their Premium Digestive Enzyme is good too. Mercola has excellent of both, but they cost a bit more.

Keep ingredient lists of any food he has with notes about how he does on them. You can compare ingredient lists and start to figure out what it is he reacts to, so you will know what to avoid in the future.

[mfulton7]

Okay so this isn’t allergies its more than likely a food intolerance. I did notice that the earthborn holistic amd zignature are both pea based. I wonder if that is the trigger. If not maybe fish? Would you happen to know what the most common dog food intolerances are?
I do have a probiotic for her/them but I will definitely check into getting the enzyme as well. Thanks!

[theBCnut]

Allergies get worse with every exposure until you start seeing hives, facial swelling, breathing difficulty, and anaphylaxsis. A lot of vets will lump them all into the same category, but they are slightly different. They still need to be prevented the same, by figuring out what causes the issue and avoiding it. Chicken, beef, grain, potato, eggs are most common, but any ingredient that has protein in it can be the problem.

I figured out that my dog is intolerant to chicken and many grains pretty quickly, but just found out a couple weeks ago that he also can’t handle tomato.

[jking131]

Looking for some help here. I have a 4 month old Saint Bernard. We started her on Pinnacle Chicken and Oatmeal. After about 2 weeks she started have very loose stools. So I switched her to Canine Caviar Open Sky. She did well on this for about a month, but is back to having very loose stools (runny w/no form). I am not sure what food I should try her on next. I am going to feed her rice and chicken for the next couple of days to see if we can get a solid stool again.

[mfulton7]

Pattyvaughn should I try a L.I.D. food or just try something with completely different ingredients? I also remember our vet telling us that we need to wait 6 weeks to see if the food is working or not. Does that seem accurate based on your experiences?

[theBCnut]

jking
Try Earthborn Holistic Meadow Feast, and maybe start adding a spoonful of canned pure pumpkin to her meals, to help with the loose stools. Digestive enzymes and probiotics wouldn’t be amiss either.

mfulton
Trying limited ingredient foods definitely makes it easier to figure out what works and what doesn’t. As for how long it takes to tell, it depends on how severe the dog is, among other things. I have always known inside of a week if a food was working. The first food that worked for Micah had him dramatically less itchy in about 3 days, but it took 2 1/2 months for all symptoms to disappear. And when you find something that works, you do want to wait until all symptoms disappear before trying something else. When I have tried something that didn’t work for Micah, it also took 3 days for symptoms to show up. His left ear suddenly got red, inflamed, and gunky. I took him off it immediately and now 2 weeks later, his ear is still gunky, but it isn’t red and inflamed. I’m waiting for it to clear up before I try the next new thing(with fear and trepidation). I have known dogs that took much longer to start showing improvement because of the high level of histamine in their body, but you should start to see improvement sooner than 6 weeks.

[jking131]

pattyvaughn what digestive enzymes and probiatics do you recomend? I had been giving her the pumpkin with her food, when she was on Pinnacle. Then when we switched her over to canine caviar and she was having good stools, I quit giving her the pumpkin. So you recommend the pumpkin as a regular addition to her kibble.

[jking131]

Pattyvaughn, just a couple more questions. I was searching for the Earthborn meadow feast online and I am not seeing it offered at very many of the on line stores. I haven’t made it to my pet store yet to see if they carry this. I know they carry Earthborn, but I don’t think I have seen the Meadow Feast there. It also seems to be the most expensive one of the Earthborn varities. Why do you recomend the meadow feast over like great plains or coastal catch?

[Sue’s Zoo]

I have a large breed puppy, Shiloh Shepherd. He’s 55 pounds at 4-1/2 months. With much help from information on this forum I’m feeding him half kibble (rotating between Wellness Core Puppy, Earthborn Holistic Coastal Catch, Halo Spot’s Stew Surf N Turf) and half raw (Primal and OCRraw) as well as a probiotic and supplement. He seems to be doing very well. I’m currently feeding him 5.5 cups of food per day but I’m going to increase it, at least temporarily, as he still seems hungry all the time. I’m also feeding him three times a day at this point.

My question–up to what age is it recommended to feed 3 times a day? I wonder if feeding him fewer, larger meals if he would be better satisfied.

Also, does anyone know if there’s a way to search the forums on this site? There’s a search box on the initial forum page but nothing for individual topics that I can see. They’re packed with such great information but I’m sure many questions are repeated and information missed because it’s so hard to find out which issues have already been addressed.

• This reply was modified 11 years ago by Sue's Zoo.

[theBCnut]

jking
Coastal Catch is good too!

I use enzymes and probiotics from 2 diff place, Mercola and Swanson’s. I like Mercola better, but they are a lot more expensive, so I often use Swanson’s instead.

I keep pumpkin on hand at all times, but it is extremely rare that I need it. If stools are soft, use it, if they are fine, just keep watching. I’ve been rotating foods for a year now and my dogs are totally used to it.

[theBCnut]

Hi Sue

I have a zoo too. I usually switch to 2 meals a day between 4 and 6 months. My dogs usually let me know that they don’t want lunch anymore, but total food hounds are not likely to refuse a meal.

That search box at the beginning is the only one.

[RescueDaneMom]

jking- Earthborn only has 2 varieties that are appropriate for large breed puppy growth which are the Meadow Feast and Coastal Catch.

[mfulton7]

I’ve been searching for affordably priced dog food which brings me to the question, does the dog food have to be grain free? I’m really confused about the grain inclusive and the grain free foods.

[theBCnut]

If your dog is not having any issues, then no, it doesn’t have to be grain free. If your dog is having any skin or intestinal issues then grain can be inflamatory, so it is not recommended.

[mfulton7]

Ok. So my dog is having skin issues that we suspect is from the peas. Would it be best for us to stick with grain free?

[Parr]

Hi all, I am still trying to get information on the protein levels for large breed dogs. I have a 15 month old GSD who is eating Earthborn Meadow Feast to help with skin issues and so far so good. I want to understand the right range for large breed protein levels as I look for foods to rotate in. I would love it if I could get some feedback on this.

Thank you so much for your help.

[theBCnut]

mfulton
If you can find pea free foods that are grain free, that’s what I would do at least until you have everything under control. If you can’t find good options then at least go for gluten free grains, that’s where the problem is anyway.

[mfulton7]

Thank you pattyvaughn my research begins, ha ha!

[theBCnut]

Parr
There is no kibble that has too much protein for a large breed dog. I won’t feed a food under 35% protein to my dogs and there are others here who set their personal limit at 30%. Below 30% is just too low, IMO.

[theBCnut]

I’m still researching a year and a half later…

[karink]

I was checking the list that HDM posted on page 15 of the appropriate foods for Large Breed Puppies, however, I did not find a recommendation for NUTRISCA. It has a 5 star rating by Dog Food Advisor, and is grain free, potato free. Does anyone know anything about it and what the calcium / phosophorus percentage is as I don’t see it listed on the company’s website.

Wanted to include it in the rotation diet. I am currently using Annamaet Salcha and puppies seems to be doing well on it, however, would like to try a potato free food as well.

Thanks.

[JoshFL]

Good day – what a perfect thread – thanks to all teh contributors and HDM especially.

The breeder we’re using for our large breed dog suggests Life’s Abundance. This site’s review is favorable, the calcium level is low…but it’s not on your master list. Is there something I should be aware of (besides the potential incentive they get for recommending the product) that would make Life’s Abundance inappropriate for our new dog?

Also, any thoughts on supplementing with butcher-bought tripe instead of the canned green tripe and raw salmon?

Thank you,

Josh

[Parr]

Pattyvaughn,

Then I am confused. Why was Earthborn Meadow Feast recommended, it is 26% protein?Along with NV Instinct, Turkey, and Rabbit LID, these are all under 30%. Several of the ones on the large breed list are under 30% protein. What am I missing?

[chrisalcor]

I agree with Patti – I raise rottweilers have push protein whenever possible. I use all life stages most often – and lots of grain free. Don’t forget lots of raw meaty bones. It increases the calcium, supplements with the chewing needs and the protein in the marrow is great for their skin, coats and muscle growth.

[InkedMarie]

For those of you wondering if certain foods are appropriate for large breed pups, I implore you to choose foods on HDM’s list.

[RescueDaneMom]

karink- Nutrisca may not be on the list for several reasons. It is possible that the company did not get back with her when she reached out to them for the “actual” calcium and phosphorous levels. It is also possible that they did give her the actual levels and they were too high to be included on the list. I would choose a food from HDM’s list that is potato-free rather than using Nutrisca. I’m sure HDM didn’t include it for a reason.

Regarding why a food may or may not be on this list. The criteria used is this:
-Rated at least 4 stars by the Dog Food Advisor.
-No more than 3.5 g. calcium per 1,000 kcal.
-Labeled for “growth” or “all life stages.”
If a food is not on the list,they either did not meet the criteria or they did not provide HDM with the “actual” levels (not the min stated on the bag or website) of calcium and phosphorous when she contacted them.

Regarding protein, it is not a criteria for the list. There is no minimum protein percentage to make the list. The focus is on the calcium/phosphorous, not % protein. 30% is a personal limit for some.

[JoshFL]

Thanks, RDM – very helpful. The breeder’s health guarantee actually stipulates that Life’s Abundance food be used for the 1st year or the guarantee is void. I think I’ll be asking to redact that section of the contract.

[mfulton7]

Not sure if this has been addressed yet but I’m thinking about trying Fromm Four Star grain inclusive whitefish and potato or the salmon flavor. I noticed both of these flavors meet the calcium limits and are rated 4 star. Am I overlooking something else?

[Parr]

RescueDaneMom,

Thank you for your response explaining that the list does not take percent of protein into account. I will keep that in mind as I look through the list and be sure to check out the protein levels as well.

I am just learning all of this and am trying to get it right. I know everyone here has been at this so much longer, and I appreciate the guidance and support. Thank you to everyone for all your help. Information is empowering!

[InkedMarie]

Josh, wow, they stipulate what you feed? I think I’d have passed on that pup. No offense intended! I feed Natures Logic to one and I’d feel the same way. All dogs are different and they need whatever works for them.

[JoshFL]

That’s my thought, InkedMarie – the dog will get what the dog likes…I’m not going to be bound to one food. If the dog reacts poorly to it, what then?

[jewels]

Rescue Dane Mom and Pattyvaughn, when you say 30% is a personal limit for some are you meaning 30% is the minimum protein percent? Do most on this site agree that you can’t have too high of protein for a large breed puppy? I’m trying to be aware of the calcium percentage and have been referring to HDM’s list. I just want to make sure that I’m not missing some other important detail. I have a Standard Poodle puppy who was 16 weeks on Monday. The breeder advised that I feed him a 50/50 mixture of Eukanuba Adult and Purina Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach (which is also an adult formula). She said this mixture worked best to ensure that the puppy didn’t grow too fast and his bones and muscles/ligaments would grow at the same pace. She said she’d been using this formula with her puppies for some time and had fantastic results. I met the parents and grandparents of my puppy as well as older siblings from a previous litter and all were very healthy, active dogs. She does all her “testing” before she breeds any of her dogs and they all have good results, so it’s hard to argue with her approach. I was still hesitant to feed a puppy and adult food, however, so I chose NV Prairie Large Breed Puppy and switched him over. I hope I did the right thing! He has been on this NV formula for a month now and his stool is still fairly soft. It has form when it comes out, but it is too soft to pick up right away… if that makes sense. I’d like to start rotating him with a few other foods, but want to make sure I have the calcium and protein thing down first! Another question on calcium… I know a food should be no more than 3.5 g calcium, but on the list everything looks like it’s hovering around the 1.0 mark. Obviously there must be a piece I’m missing here… Thanks for the help!

[InkedMarie]

Josh, what would the breeders say if you switch? I’m very honest but would they know if you fed something else?

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