[Christine C]

My dog has a history of getting crystals in her urine and our vet has always just given us antibiotics. She is currently on the the hills C/D urinary dry + canned food and this has helped her urine problem; however, the cost has been a big burden. I was shocked to see the ingredients in it and wouldn’t making homemade obviously be healthier? I would like to start making my own dog food, but I’m not sure if this would be the best option. I do not want to rely on the vet because they obviously would go against it and are money hungry. I have been reading other forums and many dog owners seem to feed their pets cranberry supplements? What are your thoughts on this and getting off of the prescription diet? Also how do I get my dog to drink more water?

[pitlove]

Hi Christine-

Unfortunetly you are going to need to rely on a vet, more so a veterinary nutritionist to formulate a homemade diet for a dog with a history of crystals. You can use the services of websites like petdiets.com or BalanceIt.com, but I would absolutely not recommend trying to use free recipes on the internet as they have proven time and time again to be nutrient deficient. So in that case, no homemade diets are not healthier when they are deficient in key nutrients, which they commonly are.

Which ingredients in Hill’s C/D are concerning to you? I see no ingredients personally that would cause alarm. I am also confused as to why you feel your vet is only after your money, but freely admit that C/D has helped her avoid crystal formation.

[Susan]

Hi Christine,
The wet tin Hills C/d formula has OK ingredients so maybe feed the Hills C/d wet tin formula & cook & freeze the other meals….
Here’s the “Balance It” site https://www.secure.balanceit.com. you add the Balance it powder to balance cook meals..
click on “Get Started Click here” & click on your dogs health problems & homemade recipes will come up..
Have you looked for wet & dry foods that are low in Phosphorus? that’s what I’d be doing & asking people what brands are they feeding…read what the phosphorus % is in the vet & dry formula’s your feeding, if you have the money get a vet nutritionist to make a diet for your girl it shouldn’t be that expensive & join “K-9 Kitchen” on Face Book, its Monica Segal’s site she often post & helps people with their pets health problem…

[anonymous]

Bump (response from previous thread on the same subject)
“Dogs that get urinary tract infections and bladder stones tend to have a genetic predisposition, combine that with not enough water intake, not enough opportunities to urinate and you have a problem”.
“Whatever you decide to feed, add water to the kibble or canned food, even presoak and add water. Take out to urinate at least every 4 hours (every 2 hours is ideal) stagnant conditions in the bladder are conducive to bladder stone formation”.
“Always have fresh water available for the dog 24/7”.
“Supplements are crap, don’t waste your money unless your vet recommends something specific for your dog”.
Ps: You think the prescription food is expensive. Try emergency surgery for a blocked urethra.
Been there, done that.
Bump (response from a previous thread on the same subject)
Per the search engine: /forums/search/urinary+tract+infections/
Regarding cranberry: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=cranberry

I’m hoping someone might find this information helpful (even if the op doesn’t) 🙂
After all, this topic comes up at least once a week.

[anonymous]

If the urinary tract infections reoccur despite treatment, I would ask the vet about doing an ultrasound to rule out bladder stones. Dogs can have more than one type of stone.
For example: Struvite and Calcium Oxalate.

[Robin B]

I just spent 4 hours and $800 at an after hours emergency veterinary clinic with my rescue mutt. He was unable to pee, straining with leg up for ages, repeat. Then he started leaking in dribbles. This appeared to come on suddenly. Examination, urinalysis, X-ray, ultrasound: struvite crystals in urethra, stones in bladder. He had a catheter flush & sent home with prescription canned Hill’s S/D. It looks disgusting but he will eat it. We’ll see our vet at our regular clinic next week to check for progress on dissolution of crystals & stones.
He had been eating quality kibble ( no grain, limited ingredients etc.) enhanced with Wellness canned food (beef, turkey, chicken, lamb in rotation. Who doesn’t like a little variety?) Good news: we might be closer to guessing his breed combo (a little schnauzer in there, they tend toward this problem) and he started peeing the morning after his procedure & the prescription diet is temporary. Unlike me, he’s not a big drinker and he seems to have a bladder that will hold forever, likely one source of the problem.
So, I think I have deduced the cause: not enough water & infrequent elimination breaks both easily remedied although he only likes to pee on his walks.
My plan is to resume his regular diet when I get the “all clear” from the vet, add water to his kibble/canned meal combo. Introduce vitamin C & cranberry supplement. Offer homemade broth in addition to water to keep him hydrated. (I’m cheating and already making & giving the broth).
My question: do I wait until he is crystal clear before adding supplements & broth to his prescription food?
Your question: I’m new to the journey but hope I’m on the right track, commercial food with quality locally sourced ingredients, combo wet & dry (quality wet alone is too rich for my budget), water or bone broth added to food, lots of water available & broth if pup won’t drink water, frequent opportunity to pee (I think that was our downfall).
Good luck & advice is welcome.

[anonymous]

Also, if the dog is overweight, get the extra weight off, increase walks/exercise/activity.
Work closely with your vet, when the dog has been stable 6 months to 1 year then you can talk about diet changes.
“Dogs that get urinary tract infections and bladder stones tend to have a genetic predisposition, combine that with not enough water intake, not enough opportunities to urinate and you have a problem”.
“Whatever you decide to feed, add water to the kibble or canned food, even presoak and add water. Take out to urinate at least every 4 hours (every 2 hours is ideal) stagnant conditions in the bladder are conducive to bladder stone formation”.
“Always have fresh water available for the dog 24/7”.
“Supplements are crap, don’t waste your money unless your vet recommends something specific for your dog”.
Ps: You think the prescription food is expensive. Try emergency surgery for a blocked urethra.
Been there, done that.
Per the search engine: /forums/search/urinary+tract+infections/
Regarding cranberry: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=cranberry
Also there are prescription meds for stubborn cases, talk to your vet.
Was an ultrasound done? Dogs can have more than one type of stone, such as calcium oxalate and struvite…that was the case with my dog that had reoccurring UTIs.
This is not veterinary advice; consult your veterinarian.

PS: Note recent question on struvite in comments: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2016/09/science-based-veterinary-nutrition-success-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-121266
Good luck

[Robin B]

Thx. I’m puzzled because he had crystals in his urethra (catheter flushed) and stones in his bladder. Seen by ultrasound & xray. His urinalysis showed no infection. So we left the emergency hospital with 3 days of painkillers from the procedure & prescription S/D to dissolve stones & 2 week recall to our own vet. If they’re struvite stones, why no infection?
It’s always been hard to get him to take in enough fluids but a weak broth is helping & I’m adding water to his wet food. 24 lb possible schnauzer cross (mini-schnauzers are prone to stones) who appears to be at the right weight for height; gets at least 2 hours on-leash walks per day (divided into 2, 3 or 4 walks depending on weather and life)
For now the water works seem functional but solid waste management is on a Wild-cat strike.

[anonymous]

I think the broth is a good idea. How old is he? My peke had these issues at age 11. I did what I recommended that you do and he never had any more urinary tract infections, he made it to age 16 and passed due to unrelated causes, primarily dementia.

See my posts in this thread
./forums/topic/great-pyreneesanatolian-sheapard-mix-with-struvite-stones/

Good luck

[anonymous]

Wait a minute…..your dog did not have surgery to remove the stones in his bladder.
Okay, the vet is probably hoping they are struvite and will dissolve.
If they don’t (they will x-ray/ultrasound at the re-check appointment) they may be another type of stone that doesn’t dissolve, calcium oxalate for example.

I wondered about the $800, my dog’s emergency surgery was a lot more, they sent the stones off to a lab to be analyzed, otherwise they can’t identify what type they.

That being said, at the 3 month checkup x-ray a couple of new baby calcium oxalate stones had developed already! They never moved around or caused him any trouble, because he was a senior and had other issues we decided not to act aggressively.

[Robin B]

Toto is happy with the Hill’s S/D canned food. I dice it (its kind of rubbery out of the Can) and add water because he doesn’t drink much. I made a few treats from a thin slice cubed & baked low in the toaster oven. Low. ( smoke detector went off) He gobbles these too although they lack the moisture content so extra hydration is a must.
A retired vet friend discouraged me from using bone broth due to the added calcium intake. Bad for stones. So I have lots of broth for my own future consumption.
Now the pooch is constipated. Post-anaesthetic? 3 days buprenorphine? Any ideas that don’t work against Hill’s S/D objectives?

[anonymous]

It’s not unusual for a dog status post any surgical procedure/diet changes/certain medications (buprenorphine is a synthetic narcotic) to have constipation, as long as he has bowel movement within 2 days don’t worry. On day 3 I would give the vet a call (if he has been eating solid food).
I would continue to add water to meals, this will help to move things along.
Also, continue walks/exercise as tolerates, this will help too.
I used plain chicken broth (weak, no onion) ask your friend (retired vet) if this would be okay?

[Susan]

Hi Robyn.
I like his name Toto, ask vet can you try Hills Urinary Care, C/d Multicare wet tin Chicken & Vegetable stew, its not rubbery, it’s a nice stew meal & has better ingredients then the S/d original wet canned formula, Hills have brought out a few new stews for dogs that stay on these type of diets & the fussy eaters, google, Hills Verterinary Prescription Diet site if you want to read up on the C/d Urinary Care Chicken & Vegetable Stew you can also email Hills & a Veterinary Nutritionist will call or email you back they know more about their vet diets then the vets do, the Chicken Veggie Stew might help with his constipation having a few veggies or add 1 spoon boiled pumkin…
Hills C/d Multicare wet
INGREDIENTS LIST

Water, Chicken, Pork Liver, Carrots, Rice, Green Peas, Corn Starch, Chicken Liver Flavor, Powdered Cellulose, Soybean Oil, Potassium Alginate, Wheat Gluten, Calcium Chloride, Guar Gum, Dicalcium Phosphate, Flaxseed, Potassium Citrate, Fish Oil, Calcium Lactate, Calcium Gluconate, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Niacin Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Biotin, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Choline Chloride, Taurine, minerals (Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Iodate), L-Carnitine, Beta-Carotene.

[pitlove]

The S/D is what the dog should be on for DISSOLVING the stones. C/D is meant for prevention of crystals. This is the problem with people thinking prescription foods don’t do anything or all have the same purpose. They do not all have the same purpose…S/D and C/D do 2 completely different things.

[Robin B]

I am aware of the purpose of s/d. We’re in early stage yet of diagnosis & treatment. Once we’re rid of the crystals/stones we can decide (Vet & I, poor Toto has no say) on the maintenance diet. I thank everyone for their input and advice which will be added to my ongoing research & access to expertise. Meanwhile, I would like Toto to poop. Not peeing in the house will be a bonus. (Until the treatment for crystals he wouldn’t even pee in the yard. Now he will. Mixed blessings.) Thx all.

[Robin B]

Yay! He pooped and promptly ate it before I could get the baggie out of my pocket. Thanks everyone for advice & support. Now we only have to deal with crystals & stones (sounds kinda New Age) and bladder control. Checking out until I have news to check in. Following your posts with interest. R

[pitlove]

Sorry Robin, my comment was directed at Susan. It’s clear that you are following your vets advice. Glad Toto is making progress.

[Susan]

Pitlove
maybe you should contact Hills & ask them about the C/d Multicare vet diets, it also used to dissolving stone/crystals, the stew was brought out a few years ago cause dogs weren’t eating the Hills S/d formula, C/d Muticare is lower in fat, here in Australia the C/d Multicare & C/d Oringal formula’s is used for health condition Toto has….
Here is Hills American advertisment for the C/d MUTLICARE formula..

NEW AND IMPROVED HILL’S PRESCRIPTION DIET™ c/d™ Multicare Canine From the pioneers of urinary innovation comes a new single solution to help give dogs the care they need. And now, satisfy with the lowest fat, best tasting c/d™ formula ever2 — dogs can’t wait to eat it!
+ Dissolve struvite stones and limit risk of recurrence with controlled levels of magnesium and phosphorus + Discourage the formation of Calcium Oxalate crystals and stones with controlled levels of calcium, oxalate and added potassium citrate
URINARY TRACT DISEASE
REDUCE THE RISK OF OXALATE AND STRUVITE STONES
DISSOLVE STRUVITE STONES1
REDUCE INFLAMMATION FROM UTIs AND STONES
Meet the only solution with Triple Barrier Protection
1. when used with appropriate antimicrobial therapy 2. vs. Original c/d™ Canine

[pitlove]

I read the website and have talked to plenty of Hill’s reps being in the veterinary medicine field, but thank you for your opinion.

[Rose C]

Hi Susan and Robyn,
What I don’t like about Hills or even Royal Canin SO is they have cheap filler ingredients and stuff that sound like food, but isn’t: CORN STARCH, Chicken Liver FLAVOR? And water as a 1st ingredient??? You can add water. This stuff is too expensive for what’s in it.
>>Water, Chicken, Pork Liver, Carrots, Rice, Green Peas, Corn Starch, Chicken Liver Flavor, Powdered Cellulose, Soybean Oil, Potassium Alginate, Wheat Gluten, Calcium Chloride, Guar Gum, Dicalcium Phosphate, Flaxseed, <<
My toy poddle has oxalate crystals in his bladder. I’m feeding him chicken and oatbran with some canned pumkin and powdered pre/probiotics. I want to buy some powdered calcium citrate and frozen peas. And basically supplement what I give him with foods on the low oxalate group. Dogaware.com lists much of what I’m saying. http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjcalciumoxalates.html

[Rose C]

I should have said the lamb and oatbran is Wellness Simple Limited Ingredients or else it sounds like my dog isn’t getting balanced nutrition. I had to stop feeding the Wellness Complete Health line because of the sweet potatoes, carrots and barley being high in oxalates. Robyn, I line my bathroom floor with wee pads and my dog is getting walked every 4/5 hours and still peeing on the pads. I put a belly band on for nighttime because he’s older and was already leaky but is worse with the crystals.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by Rose C.

[Rose C]

Robin, >>Excessive vitamin C and vitamin D intake should be avoided. Vitamin C can be broken down by the body into oxalates, increasing the risk for calcium oxalate stones. Vitamin D will increase the risk of calcium oxalate stones by increasing the excretion of calcium into the urine.<<
http://blog.vetbloom.com/internal-medicine/calcium-oxalate-urolithiasis/

Sorry I spelled Robin with a y before. Oops.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by Rose C.

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