[peter d]

Hi all,I’m new here having stumbled onto this site,and what caught my attention are statements about high or low protein.
Also Mike suggests for anyone to share knowledge-so here goes.
I speak with over 50 years of experience of commercial animal production with various species.Nutrition has always been my driving interest and study-by necessity-we had our own feed plant.
I have discovered some amazing things,by following ideas and hunches and putting them into practice.
With nearly all species the protein requirements lessen as animals grow.
With dogs however, it seems to me that manufacturers use high protein as a marketing tool-as users seem to think the higher protein-the better the food!
Puppy biscuits in particular at 29-30% protein and recommended to be fed to 12 and even 24 mths old!
This is a monumental mistake and a major cause of hip Dysplasia in dogs-and I’ll tell you why.
Proteins produce acids-the higher the protein-the more acids. The body attempts to neutralise this by using Calcium from the food intake and,invariably, leeches Calcium from the bones-which in a young pup-which are not born with bones-but need to develop and grow-and the larger the breed the more they have to grow.
2 of these acids cause secretion of the Calcium via the urine.
It is a major although not the only mnutritional cause of CHD.
I have always had large breed dogs as well-the last 15 years as a breeder of Malamutes as a semi retirement pursuit and love of dogs.
As I write this having reared many hundreds of dogs,I am yet to see one with CHD.
Nutrition is by far the most important thing in life of all living things-humans too!
Peter

[neezerfan]

What do you think is the ideal protein percentage for the different life stages?

[peter d]

My opinion and practice has always been as follows-
Puppy biscuits (29-30%protein) to 10-12 weeks of age -then continue with a working dog biscuit of around 25%up to 6 months or so. From then on a protein level of 20-21% is ample.
Always dry biscuits(good for their teeth-never wet food)-and add lib because no one knows how much to feed except nature and the dog.

[theBCnut]

Oh brother!! High protein does not cause hip dysplasia, no matter what bogus ideas you have come up with to try and explain your point of view. Try doing a little actual research on the current studies into the causes of hip dysplasia. Try starting with Dr Larsen, but don’t stop there.

Then go to your own dentist and ask what causes plaque build up on teeth. He should tell you that it is caused by starch in the diet. If he says anything else, get a new dentist. Kibble is 30% or MORE starch. Kibble fed dogs have to get their teeth cleaned just as much as other dogs and more than raw fed dogs, which are eating a HIGH protein diet.

No dogs don’t have to have high protein diets, but they don’t have to have starch at all. Replacing so much of what constitutes a natural diet for a dog with starchy kibble should not make sense to anyone. It’s like saying people should live off cereal bars and nothing else.

[InkedMarie]

20-21% protein for adults? Dry good for their teeth? I think I’ll pass on your advice. I assume you’re not in the US? I dont hear biscuits used for dry dog food.

[peter d]

Unfortunately the internet is a pretty useless place to learn anything when you have people who google day and night. All theory with 80% actual BS,and invariably by those with vested interests.You can give 100 links for some view and I can tit for tat with 100 of mine.
I have always had to learn from actual science and use my brains,and practice it in the field BIGTIME.
What has starch or teeth cleaning got to do with CHD-and I’ve never had to get a dogs teeth cleaned.
Re causes of CHD-there are many points of circumstantial evidence pointing to nutrition as the main cause. Simply the CA/P ratio in a stricly balanced TOTAL dietary intake,with regard that CA is fully metabolised,and not lost due to VIT D deficiecy(sun exposure) and Vit C(dogs under strss do not produce enough), AND high protein acid leeching.
Nutrition is a very complex area and I don’t intend to attempt explaining it all,but the fundimentals are very simple as are most things.
I just comment here for the sake of over 2 million plus dogs who are diagnosed every year world wide(and their owners),with my 50 years of intimate experience.
You can take it or leave it,and carry on believing the scientific mumbo jumbo that has been peddled out for 80 plus years now.
‘Experts’ are people who know more and more about less and less.

[peter d]

InkedMarie,
Biscuits/kibble-who cares? It’s all the same-a recipe of macro and micro nutriens extruded into pellet form.
You might want to check out the latest findings on the cause of osteo arthritis et all,and the epidemic level it is reaching,reported as caused by the American diet to be too high in protein.

[InkedMarie]

I’ve had two dogs with arthritis and/or hip dysplasia. They came to me as seniors. I have no idea what the first ate at her first home but I know what she at the shelter and it wasnt high protein. The second didn’t have high protein food in her home either. Both had arthritis/HD when they got here and it sure wasnt caused by a high protein food.

[peter d]

InkedMarie,
I don’t remember saying that high protein foods are the ONLY cause-please read properly.
It is a major factor in that it causes depletion of Calcium from the food inake and from the developing bones.It is secreted in the urine-goodbye forever.Happens during the developing stage-and you werent a fly on the wall when your 2 dogs you mentioned were growing up.
But there are a number of other factors,and the main one is that pups are not fed a balanced diet with a CA/P ratio of 1.4 to 1. Yes they may get that in their KIBBLE—BUT,what else are they fed?? This ‘what else’ is what is important and I suggest to you that nearly every cute young puppy is given plenty of ‘other’ food that most likely affects the CA/P ratio.People are the real problem.No self control or disciplin-all well meaning mind you ,but the saying-kill them with kindness -is very apt.
Interestingly the CHD problem reared it’s head around the 1930’s when commercial foods were starting to be produced-and it has progressively got worse.
It’s not the fault of the commercial balanced complete diets,but the insatiable drive of owners to spoil their much loved pet.
You are what you eat-whether human/dog or any living thing-or don’t you believe that either?

[weezerweeks]

What is CHD?

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

coronery Heart disease

[theBCnut]

Canine Hip Dysplasia in this case, from the other statements made, I think.

[jakes mom]

My first thought was heart disease, too, but reading further I agree with Patty, hip dysplasia in this case. Perhaps posters could use the whole phrase the first time then abbreviations later so all readers are clear on the topic. That way everyone can understand the discussion. Everybody’s not a vet or breeder or possesses medical knowledge.

[theBCnut]

That’s pretty much what everyone who wants to be understood already does.

[Author]

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