[Alice B]

Hi everyone, I need some help understanding the logic of high meat diets
when I have tried any, my 2 male Yorkies have very hard poop in small nuggets it does not look normal

Both dogs are eating Royal Canin mini dry food, & do well on this, with normal poop

The high meat diets they have tried, Ziwi peak, K9 Natural, & raw meat as a meal with veggies
if these meats are species-appropriate, why do they produce such weird poop

[anonymous]

Are they drinking enough water? Add water to the kibble, enough to cover it twice a day for meals. Don’t free feed (leave food down all day). Always have fresh water available.
See if that helps. If not, consult your vet.

[Alice B]

The dogs everyday diet is Royal Canin for mini dogs, they are fine on this with no poop problems

when I fed K9 Natural freeze dried I added lots of warm water & even then they had nugget poops

Both boys eat 2 meals a day, I think they drink plenty of water, I clean & refill their water bowl each day
Thanks

[anonymous]

“when I fed K9 Natural freeze dried I added lots of warm water & even then they had nugget poops”

I would assume that this product does not agree with your dogs and I would stop feeding it.
For example it contains “Ground Beef Bone”

This could be the cause as ground bone can cause gastrointestinal upset, constipation and sometimes obstruction/blockage. I would be even more concerned for small breeds, although these things can occur with any size dog. Confer with your vet. I would stick with the Royal Canin if it agrees with them…no need to switch around (imo)

[anonymous]

Ziwi Peak has bone in it too…..

Just because it is soft or ground up doesn’t change anything. It is still bone and can cause problems.

[haleycookie]

Ideally a raw fed dog will poop maybe once a day and it will be very small. I follow a working raw fed gsd on insta and he poops once a day and it’s about the size of a baseball maybe smaller. As opposed to kibble fed dogs who poop bulky poops twice sometimes three times or more a day. “Normal” poop for a dog should be small, dark in color, and segmented. The dog should have no issues passing it. If they are constipated and straining then bone content could be too high which in a raw diet could be corrected by adding more organ meat. Just as soft poos can be combated with more bone.
Bone is natural for a dog to eat. Obviously don’t feed weight bearing bones as they can crack teeth or split or shatter and cause obstructions. Bone ground up or whole bones like necks, backs, or non weight bearing bones are ideal.

[Patricia A]

Alice. I use kibble as a base also and top it with Stella’s freeze dried or Primal. I have Chihuahuas and they never had hard poops using these freeze dried brands. Maybe you can try these for your Poms and see if these agree with them . However, it seems there is a plus to harder stools as article below:

Clean anal sacs – Diets that have natural sources of bone make the poops firmer which requires your pet to strain a bit harder to defecate. This is normal and even beneficial, as the harder stools help the dog express its anal glands, keeping it clean and reducing the likelihood of infection. If you notice your pet straining for too long, or they appear constipated, you may have to rethink the ratios of your raw ingredients. Furchild takes out all the guesswork because we have done the necessary research and all of our Meals for Dogs and Cats have been formulated by raw pet food experts.
Less Gas

• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by Patricia A.

[Alice B]

Yes the ground bone is likely the cause of hard poop problems
I got caught up in the idea of rotating foods & raw foods for dogs, this practice is written about on a few forums I’ve read,
it doesn’t seem to agree with my dogs digestion

Maybe large dogs can cope with this style of diet better than toy breeds ?

We went for a Vet check-up, both dogs are healthy & perfect weight, So happy with that outcome,
When I discussed what the feeding plan I had been trying was, the Vet just said ” oh dear, PLEASE stick with Royal Canin”

[anonymous]

@ Alice B

Thanks for the feedback.
Glad your dogs are doing well and that you are listening to your vet.
You may enjoy this book that will be available soon “Placebos for Pets?: The Truth About Alternative Medicine in Animals”
/forums/topic/cellbio-another-dubious-lab-test-from-hemopet-and-dr-jean-dodds/#post-146014

PS: Large breed dogs are just as susceptible to GI problems/obstructions/blockage as small breed dogs due to raw diets/bones.
Your vet will confirm.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by anonymous.

[Patricia A]

Alice the trick with the rotation in lets say the freeze dried toppers is adding just ONE protein/flavor in a brand in very small amounts for a few weeks. If they do well on that then you can add another protein/flavor of same brand in small amounts until they get used to that. I only use two brands for the freeze dried and I worked up to two or three flavors/proteins each that they like over the course of many, many months. I stick to the advisors 5* ones for the primal/stellas. When not giving the freeze dried as a topper they get what we are having when appropriate such as salmon, boiled chicken, lean steak , veggies, watermelon they also love. My vet never gives advice on food. Firstly he has cats . It’s about the same as asking my GP what foods are best for me. He’s not a dietitian and vets have VERY limited training in dog nutrition. You know how your pups act when they are feeling their best and the best nutrition for them is a huge part of them feeling their best and their longevity. If they get A+ with health checkups then the Royal Canin is right for them.

[anonymous]

What do Veterinarians Know About Nutrition?

excerpt below

What do Veterinarians Know About Nutrition?
Posted on July 8, 2012 by skeptvet
It is not unusual for people promoting unconventional, approaches to pet nutrition, such as raw diets, grain free foods, homemade diets, a preference for organic ingredients, and so on, to dismiss objections to these approaches made by veterinarians. These people will often claim that veterinarians know little about nutrition and that what they do know is mostly propaganda fed to them by commercial pet food manufacturers. Like most bad arguments, this one contains a few bits of truth mixed in with lots of unproven assumptions and fallacies.
Most veterinarians do have at least a semester course on nutrition in general. And a lot more information on the subject is scattered throughout other courses in vet school. So the idea that we know nothing about the subject is simply ridiculous. However, it is fair to acknowledge that most veterinarians are not “experts” in nutrition, if by this one means they have extensive specialized training in the subject. The real “experts” in this area are board-certified veterinary nutritionists, individuals who have advanced residency training in nutrition and have passed the board certification exam of the American College of Veterinary Nutrition.

[haleycookie]

Royal Canin is expensive corn cereal for dogs. I would at least look into meat based brands like nature’s variety instinct, and merrick back country. Or even a refrigerated food like fresh pet. Despite what anon says I know for a fact what nutrition is taught at the vet school in my state. And it is an option elective class that covers most small animal pets. And the text books are written by vets in association with the big 3 which use biased budget based “science”. Dogs are mesocarnivores regardless of size or breed and a corn based diet is not ideal.

[Patricia A]

Let’s say you made an appointment with your vet strictly for a consultation on diet for your dog. Then ask that first off I would like you to tell me what are the necessary vitamins/minerals and percentage that needs to be in the food to keep my dog healthy. Also if I had a large breed puppy how would those percentages change if at all. How many more calories does he need when feeding then a small breed puppy? What should I look for as the first through 5th ingredient on the dog food label that should point me to the best food? What should I be on the alert for that should NOT be on their ingredient label that would suggest a low quality food? You know what the vet would say to these questions? You think any vet not trained strictly in animal nutrition would know these answers. I think not.
Take it a step further and bring in a dog food he suggests such as royal Canon, science diet etc and cut out the name and show him only the ingredient label.Also take in let’s say freeze dried also and some other brands with only the label.

So Royal Canin adult dog foods first few ingredients are:
Brewers rice, chicken by-product meal, oat groats, wheat, corn gluten meal, chicken fat, natural flavors, dried plain beet pulp, fish oil, calcium carbonate, vegetable oil, potassium chloride, salt, etc.

And here’s Science Diet recipe (website states vet recommended)
Chicken, whole grain wheat, cracked pearled barley, whole grain sorghum, whole grain corn, corn gluten meal, chicken meal, pork fat, chicken liver flavor, dried beet pulp, soybean oil,

Now I’m not trying to plug a dog food. I get my starting point from Dr. Mike and go from there. But let’s take Bixbi Rawbble whose first ingredients are this: Salmon, whitefish, chicken and ground bone, pumpkin etc.

Grain inclusive Stellas ingrediens: Chicken, chicken meal pearled barley,oatmeal, chicken fat, brown rice etc.

Primal ingredients: Turkey, turkey necks, whole sardines, turkey hearts or turkey gizzards, turkey livers, organic collard greens, organic squash, organic cranberries, organic blueberries, organic pumpkin seeds, clery, sunflower seeds etc.

So does anyone think he would know which one was Royal Canin just by looking at the label. Would he pick Royal Canin or Science Diet as being what he feels the highest quality after seeing the first few ingredients of the others? Unless I’m WAY off on what I understand to be ingredients to look for on a dog food label for the best nutrition for my dogs, then I would HOPE his pick would be the others over Royal Canin and Science diet which vets push in their practice.
What I’m attempting to put across here is that the MAJORITY of vets who sell Prescription diets as in Science Diet, Royal Canin etc at their practices and suggest that food have no idea what is even in the ingredients and wouldn’t recognize which brand are those and which are others by just looking at the ingredients. They have salesmen from these companies and correct me if I’m wrong please and get kickback each time a bag is sold.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by Patricia A.

[Ja M]

I found the same issue with my Yorkies….one in particular. But he also has a sensitive tummy… its common in the breed. What resolves it, regardless of the brand he is on… is adding fiber. I add a heaping tablespoon of canned pumpkin to every bowl that has any kibble in it, for all 3 of mine. I also do not feed straight kibble. They need fluid to digest kibble well. Its dry. Imagine feeding dry pasta noodles to your kids. 3 meals a day, let alone even once would be awful! IMHO. So, add water to kibble always if you do feed it. And do so especially if you top it with anything freeze dried or dehydrated. Dogs need fluid to digest dry foods. Last, wont hurt to mix some cooked fresh food, some good canned food or diced up soft chilled roll, to kibble. FYI: Kibble was only invented because during WW2 when the US Govt needed all available aluminum for weaponry and aircraft the pet food companies had to come up with another way to package cat/ dog food. Our Dog /cat food was in cans or dehydrated, b4 that. And, folks fed table scraps and leftovers to their pets back then, and whatever they could catch on their own on the farm. City dwellers generally didnt have dogs unless wealthy. PS… I work in the industry. Read. Your. Labels.

[Ja M]

PS, the “species appropriate products are just for marketing purposes. If you compare the ingredient list, and the guaranteed analysis on the bags of any 2 “breed specific” products, you might notice as I did, that in most cases theres little difference, other than size of the kibble which you can feel through the bag (just so a small dog wont choke on some large kibble) …between one and another. FYI. Read. Your. Labels!

[John R]

You can use wet dogfood, check if your yorkie likes and .

[Author]

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