[Cyndi]

HDM, you have NO idea! Absolutely no turning back now! 90% of the food in my fridge/freezer is Bailey’s. She eats better than I do! I know I have you awesome people, especially you, to come to if I need help! & thank you again for your input/opinions on how you would have handled our minor setback. I was all set to just give up the raw, but I am so very glad I didn’t. & I am so very glad I found this site!

[Hound Dog Mom]

No problem! We’re always here to help 🙂

[Cyndi]

HDM or anyone else, I’d like to run down what I’ve been feeding Bailey on a regular basis to see if I’m doing ok & she’s on 13 days of solid, perfect stools, so that’s a plus.

I balance her days meals out to be about 1 1/2 pounds, what she’s supposed to be eating and I don’t do exactly 3/4 lb. for each meal, but I do get pretty exact for the day.
A.M.: about 1/4 Deli Fresh (working on phasing that out), 1/4 lb. Ground beef grind (from Hare Today)(Beef, organs, tripe and bone), & I just started mixing in more ground green tripe, every other day I give her either 1/2 pouch of sardines in water or 1 cage free egg w/shell, I scoop yogurt (usually every other day) & every day she gets Dr. Harvey’s Multi Vitamin Mineral & Herbal Dog Supplement, 1/2 tablet one a day vitamin & 1/4 tsp. coconut oil.

P.M.: Turkey neck & gizzards or 2 small chicken backs and a chicken foot and chicken livers & gizzards.

I think I got everything. I’m wondering if I’m giving her too much bone. Her poop is solid and not coming out white and powdery or anything. Do you think I’m doing ok? It’s been exactly a month since I started her on raw. I think I might have moved along too fast introducing new stuff, but Bailey’s been doing great as of late…

[Cyndi]

Oh & I forgot to mention, I do fast Bailey every Sunday evening. She gets her food Sunday a.m., and then doesn’t eat again til Mon. a.m.

[NectarMom]

Why do you fast? Honestly I see no reason for it other than getting your dog use to Raw from the beginning? Just curious

[Cyndi]

It’s just what I’ve learned to do from people on here and reading elsewhere. Makes sense, in the wild, wolves don’t make a kill and eat every day. Sometimes they go days without eating. Also, I guess it’s good to give their body a chance to get rid of everything in it every once in a while. I guess the same reason some people fast sometimes.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi NectarMom –

Fasting is beneficial for the dog’s immune system. I fast my dogs once a week. Feeding dogs daily or twice daily is a complete human invention – dogs are designed to live a lifestyle of feast and famine (this is why their stomachs are so large compared to their bodies and they can consume such a large amount of food in one sitting). The way fasting was explained to me was by comparing the effects of fasting on the dog’s immune system to the effects of weight lifting on muscles. When you lift weights you actually damage the muscles by creating microscopic tears, but when the muscles recover and heal they are stronger than they were before. Because about 70% of the dog’s immune system is in the gastrointestinal tract – when you fast a dog you put a mild stress on their immune system (a level of stress healthy adult dogs are able to handle). This mild stress in a sense “exercises” the immune system and leaves it stronger than it was before. It also allows for some of the energy that was normally be used for digestion to be used for healing.

[Cyndi]

Thanks for explaining that, HDM…..way better than I ever could. When you get a sec, can you take a look at my question to you a few posts up?

[theBCnut]

I don’t know whether that is an apt discription of the benefits of fasting on the immune system or not. I don’t know if fasting actually puts mild stress on the immune system, but fasting does allow the secreting glands of the digestive system to have some down time and it allows the intestines and stomach time to completely empty anything that has been mixing around in there but hasn’t exited, before adding something new. It probably starves some of the bacteria that feed off sugar, if they have short life spans. And as was previously said it is natural for dogs to eat this way, so it probably does help to keep their system balanced.

[Cyndi]

Thanks for your explanation too Patty. That makes sense as well. I just do what I’m told, lol! Ha ha!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Cyndi –

Looks good. 🙂

That Dr. Harvey’s wholefood supplement and 1/2 tablet one a day multi should take care of the gaps and account for the lower organ meat content. I don’t think it looks like too much bone. The Deli Fresh, beef grind and tripe all fed in the a.m. will have balanced calcium to phosphorus ratios. The turkey necks and chicken backs fed in the evening technically should be within the “safe” 1:1 – 2:1 C:P ratio but on the high side, with the addition of the gizzards the meat to bone ratio should be spot on. My rule of thumb when feeding RMBs is 2:1 RBM to boneless ratio – so if my dogs get 1 lb. turkey necks they’d get 1/2 lb. gizzards/hearts/etc. If you were feeding too much bone you’d probably know it, just watch the stools.

[Cyndi]

Whew! 🙂 Thank you so much!! I will be introducing more organ meat. Probably might get an organ grind from Hare Today. Just taking it slow though introducing that stuff. I’m also phasing out the Deli Fresh completely, because I have a feeling that might be causing Bailey’s ear problems, not sure though. & I watch her stools like a hawk, lol! & I have been very happy with them. I was just curious if I was doing everything else right.

Thanks so much, again, for all your help! 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Patty –

A study on fasting was conducted at the National Institute of Aging. The study was done on mice – the mice were fed nothing every other day and allowed to eat a much as they wanted on opposite days. The study concluded: “We think what happens is going without food imposes a mild stress on the cells, and cells respond by increasing their ability to cope with more severe stress.”

[theBCnut]

Hi HDM

That sounds like as good an explaination as any I have heard for what I have seen, I just don’t know how they could “know for sure” and apparently they don’t. Whatever the mechanism is, I believe fasting works and that it is as good for us as our dogs. Like everything else in a biological system, I don’t think we will ever know all the whys and wherefores, but we can know what works.

[Cyndi]

Hi Everyone! Thought I’d share some good things, since all that Shep garbage ingredient has really grossed me out. Anyways, Bailey has been doing awesome! She is eating tripe regularly (& loving it) and she’s eating chicken hearts, and chicken & turkey livers regularly, with no problems. I also got her the whole rabbit grind from Hare Today that I’m going to give her probably next week. Not quite ready to do a whole prey animal with her, although I’m thinking about getting her a whole dressed quail (that sounds funny like it’s dressed in clothes or something) maybe sometime soon. I don’t think I can get anything with feathers or fur on it. Not sure I can handle that. Anyways, I also have Bailey completely off the Fresh Pet too, and her ear problem DID clear up. Not sure what in that food could have caused her problems, but I’m so glad it’s gone. So, that’s our update! I want to thank everyone, again, for all your help and suggestions. & I’m sure, if she could, Bailey would be thanking you all too! 🙂

• This reply was modified 11 years, 10 months ago by Cyndi.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Glad to hear Baily is doing so well! 🙂

I’m sure she’ll love the ground rabbit from Hare – my dogs do. They also love the quail – I’ve fed both the dressed and whole prey with feathers, they love both. I usually go with the feathered quail though because they’re cheaper – my crew doesn’t leave anything behind (they eat the feathers, intestines and all) so it doesn’t make a mess.

[InkedMarie]

Glad Bailey is doing so well, cyndi!

[Cyndi]

Thanks Marie! I am too! & thanks HDM!

[NectarMom]

I have 3 that will eat the Hare Today ground Rabbit and one that won’t touch it. I like it because it is not messy and easy to figure out each meal size. I just ordered 10 more lbs yesterday. I thaw it and then break it into 4 servings and then refreeze as Tracy suggested.

[Cyndi]

Yeah, I combine ground beef with the organ grind and tripe grind, portion it up and refreeze it. The rabbit will be easier because I’ll feed that by itself. I’m sure glad I found out about Hare Today on here. Sure makes feeding raw a lot easier!

[mah4angel]

HI! I’d like to ask a question or two!

I just started incorporating some raw meat into my dog’s diet. Here’s what I’ve been doing: 2 tbsp or low fat, plain yogurt, 1 tbsp of flax seed, 1/2 cup of Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural (as opposed to the 3/4 cup recommendation), and some muscle meat (first I saw doing pre-ground chicken, now I’ve started on half breasts, and some Earthborn Holistic moist tubs-the lamb formula). Thanks to the RMB topic that HDM started, I’m going to be feeding Louie some pork necks that have been in our freezer for a VERY long time, as well. This is just my way of incorporating raw into his current diet slowly. Maybe this is the wrong way to do it, if so, please yell at me and tell me the right way lol.

My first question! Like I said, I’ve been feeding my Louie meat from half breasts (chicken). These half breasts naturally have bone in them (ribs, etc.) but I’ve been cutting away the bone and just feeding the meat. Should I NOT cut away the bone? Should I just chop it up and serve it with the ribs and the rest?

Second question! I found some pork cushion meat at Costco for $1.29 a pound. I have no idea if it would be a good idea to buy it and serve it when we run out of the chicken, or if I should not buy cushion meat (for some reason) .I’m not sure what cushion meat actually is, I’ll probably look it up after I’m done posting this.

Anyway, thanks!!

[theBCnut]

I would worry that cushion meat might be really high fat. Pork is usually high fat and cheaper cuts are usually high fat so cheap cuts of pork might be off the chart. As long as your dog is taking his time to chew the meat then leaving the bone in is great. If you were going to feed completely raw then I would say you shouldn’t be switching meats up this much this early, but since it is a small portion of his food you can get away with that more. If you are feeding 20% or less of his diet with foods that are not balanced then you are fine. If you’re feeding more than that you need to start watching how all your dog’s nutrients come together over time.

[mah4angel]

It looks really fatty in the packaging, but I wasn’t sure if that was excessive or normal.
What proteins are lower in fat? Also, do you ladies recommend Hare Today for buying the raw? What are their shipping costs like?

[mah4angel]

Based on what I’ve seen of Hare Today, it’s totally great! BUT I live all the way over here in California, and the shipping costs will equal the price of all of the food in my cart no matter what I do 🙁
Does anyone have any suggestions as far as retailers for me that are similar to Hare Today, but closer to me?

[pugmomsandy]

You can get greentripe.com products easily since you are in Cali. I get the green tripe, xkaliber, tripe stuffed cow hooves and trachea from them.

[mah4angel]

How much is the green tripe and the XKALIBER? It says to call for pricing, but it’d be much easier to just ask here and then head off to work and check back later lol.

[pugmomsandy]

When I get it at a store it was about 3 or 4 bucks a lb retail markup. When I buy with my co-op it’s at a bulk discount rate 1.60-1.95 per lb. I’ll have to see if it saved me anything this time around with splitting the delivery fee with the group to Texas. I bought 3 cases.

5lb rolls (40lb case): Retail Price 500lb 1500lb
Green Tripe (GT5) $1.85/lb ($9.25/roll) $1.70/lb $1.60/lb
Tripe/Trachea (TT5)$2.00/lb ($10.00/roll) $1.80/lb $1.70/lb
Xkaliber (XT5) $2.15/lb ($10.75/roll) $1.95/lb $1.85/lb
*Green Tripe Puppy (PT5)$2.35/lb ($11.75/roll) $2.15/lb $2.05/lb

2lb rolls (40lb case):
Green Tripe (GT2) $2.00/lb ($4.00/roll) $1.80/lb $1.70/lb
Tripe/Trachea (TT2) $2.15/lb ($4.30/roll) $1.95/lb $1.85/lb
Xkaliber (XT2) $2.30/lb ($4.60/roll) $2.10/lb $1.95/lb
Tripe/Organ Meat (TOMB)$2.00/lb ($4.00/roll) $1.80/lb $1.80/lb

[mah4angel]

pugsmomandy thanks so much for recommending greentripe.com to me! Turns out, the company’s warehouse is 15 minutes away from my house!! I asked if I can do a pick-up, thanks so much, I never would have found it without you AH! I’m very excited ^_^

[pugmomsandy]

Yay! Don’t forget to prepare it and feed it outside the first time! The first time I fed it a dog from down the street came over!

[mah4angel]

Just noticed I spelled your user name incorrectly sorry *pugmomsandy!
Yeah, Louie doesn’t like eating at the bowl, he loves to take his food out and chew it over our very nice floor rungs -_- LOL. Outside it shall be!

[Cyndi]

Hey Everyone! I have a question about pork necks. I haven’t given these to Bailey yet and I’d like to start. Right now I alternate chicken backs and turkey necks for her dinners and I’d like to start adding pork necks into the rotation. Do I have to freeze these for a certain length of time before I feed them, and why? I think I’ve read before that I do have to, but I couldn’t find where I read it.

Also, another question that has me wondering….. Bailey gets gas, really stinky gas, but I haven’t been able to narrow it down on what it is. I believe it might either be from the turkey livers or the whole ground rabbit carcass. Any ideas which it might be and why? She never had a problem with gas up until I started feeding those two things, which I started right about the same time, so I can’t figure it out which one it might be…

[mah4angel]

I believe it was 3 weeks, but I could very well be wrong about that.
Louie has been gassy since we got him and I can’t figure out if it’s better or worse on his partially raw diet. It could totally be the detox from the raw 🙂 Supposedly that’s one of the side effects of juice detoxes in humans, as well.

[Cyndi]

Well, I’ve been feeding raw for 2 months and her gas just started recently, that’s why I was wondering if it might be the liver or the rabbit grind and why. & do you know why to freeze the pork for 3 weeks? Parasites or something?

[mah4angel]

Yes, I believe Trichinosis.

[Hound Dog Mom]

You freeze pork to eliminate trichinosis (as mah4angels pointed out) and also Aujeszky’s Disease and tapeworm cysts. Although the likelihood of any of these things actually being present in commercially raised pork is small, it’s better to be safe than sorry.

[Cyndi]

Oh ok, thanks guys! 🙂 & was mah4angel correct with 3 weeks? I can’t find anything online about how long or even that you should freeze it…

[theBCnut]

Most of the things I’ve read said 2 weeks, some have said even shorter if it is a deep freeze.

[cearaandtroy]

Cyndi, thank you so much for this post. You asked a lot of the same questions I needed answered, and I was freaking out over the idea of feeding raw being so challenging. But it seems like you have gotten the hang of it pretty well! So I hope you don’t mind if I add in a few questions.

My pup Troy is a pretty good sized guy, 52 pounds. He just gobbles down his kibble so I’m worried about starting him off on chicken legs/wings/etc. I don’t want him to choke on the bones. How did you prevent that from happening when you first started with your pup? Or should I just start with bigger pieces of rmb?

Also, last night I was making some pork ribs so I thought I would let him try a bit raw to see how he would do. The silly dog scoffed at it, wanted nothing to do with it! I kept trying and he refused to eat it. Did this happen with you? It makes me feel like raw feeding will be an even bigger challenge than I thought. I finally got him to eat it after I lightly cooked it (no cooked bones, of course), but that’s not exactly raw haha! Do I just have to fast him and introduce raw food when he’s hungry? I’m so unsure about everything!

[theBCnut]

Hi Ceara

Some dogs do need all the tricks to start on raw and some just get it. If your dog is a scarfer then you may have to hold on to the chunk of food or attach it to something until he gets the hand of it. How big was yous dog? Sometimes giving them pieces that are too big to eat does the trick. Mine started well with chicken and turket necks. They are a big chunk of food but the bones are smaller. Usually when starting raw they don’t suggest starting with high fat meats because the sudden increase in fats alone can cause stomach upset. In fact to start with they even take the skin off of turkey and chicken.

[Cyndi]

Hi Ceara,

I think Patty answered your questions better than I could have. I didn’t have too much of a problem with my Bailey choking. Even when she got down to a piece the size that I thought was too big for her to swallow, and she tried to swallow it, she made sure to chew it a few more times and then swallowed it. I don’t think you have to worry too much about your dog choking. The bones in chicken crunch right up and once they get the hang of using their teeth the way they were meant to, they’ll have no problems. Oh, and, like Patty said, when I started, I did remove the skin from the chicken. Even now, sometimes I’ll take most of the skin off.

They say to fast for one meal before starting on raw. I feed Bailey twice a day, so, when I started, I fed her dinner one day, skipped breakfast the next morning and then started her on raw for dinner. As you may have read early on I had a few concerns, but I feel silly about all the concerns I had. Your dog’s gut just has to get used to eating & digesting food that it was meant to have. You may see pieces of bone in his poop some, that’s normal, and he may even throw up some. Don’t give up, just hang in there. You’ll be doing the very best for your dog feed him a species appropriate diet and he’ll thank you for it! 🙂

[cearaandtroy]

Thank you both! I have been trying the past couple days. The day before I started I gave him about 1/4 of a pound of lean ground beef just to get him excited and he gobbled it up so I was hopeful. I bought chicken leg quarters for him to start with and natures balance limited ingredient venison and sweet potato food just to supplement with while I was getting the hang of feeding raw. My problem now is, he won’t eat. He hasn’t eaten in a day and a half, I tried a chicken leg quarter and he licked it and half heartedly gnawed on it for a couple minutes, then left it alone. I tried keeping him interested but figured he just wasn’t hungry, because he seemed to like the taste by the way he was licking it. But he also hasn’t touched any of his kibble, though I think he likes it, because if I offer a piece as a treat he is very excited! I guess he is fasting himself because I left the kibble out all this time and it’s untouched. But it worries me. He’s a year old, is this normal? Should I try the raw chicken again? I was thinking of keeping ALL food away from him until he was actually hungry, then offering the leg quarter to him, but that’s hard to do when you live with your mother in law, and her dogs eat beneful, or when your toddler sneaks bites of pizza to your pup.

Basically, I need help with ideas on how to get him interested in the chicken leg! I really want to do this raw diet, but right now I’m feeling a little let down. I know it’s made to taste good to them, but I wish he would at least eat the natural balance over beneful or science diet!

[mah4angel]

I UNDERSTAND ABOUT LIVING WITH YOUR MOTHER-IN-LAW OMG. Mine says that my dog is too skinny when he’s THE PERFECT WEIGHT AH. When we went to Vegas for four days two weeks ago I gave her very specific instructions about his diet and she let my nieces feed him AN ENTIRE PACKAGE OF HIS FAVORITE, MOST EXPENSIVE, IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND dog treats because he’s “too skinny” UGH. She also keeps buying him snacks and treats (like Beggin’ Strips omg) and once bought him Cesar’s food (which is such bad food oh my goodness) -_____-
I would say to give it time! I was lucky in that my baby has LOVEDDD every bit of raw food that I’ve given him. I gave him some green tripe today and oh my goodness it was like the gates of Heaven opening up for him he just gobbled it up!
Let us all know how it goes ^_^

[FreeholdHound]

Ok…. So tomorrow I will be getting my 1st order of raw food delivered from Hare Today …. And I’m starting to hyperventilate. My goal is to have my 80lb Greyhound on a raw/kibble diet. What is the best way to start out? He now gets 1.5 cups of kibble twice/day. I would like to keep the AM meal straight kibble and add in the raw to the PM meal. I’m starting him out with the beef/organ/tripe/bone grind. I believe it comes in a 5lb roll so I’m not sure how to portion it out for freezing. I believe I read on Dog Aware that I shouldn’t exceed 3/4 kibble or I’d throw off nutritional balance. I believe I’m having a panic induced brain spasm so I can’t figure out how much to add of the raw. Am I rambling? Oh damn probably…. Advice (and a cocktail) needed 🙂

[Cyndi]

I am just posting here to bump up your question so someone, more knowledgeable than myself, can answer it for you. Your post, FreeholdHound, made me laugh. I was in the same position you are just a few months ago when I started my dog on raw. Good Luck to you…..& Harry! I hope he LOVES his raw food!

[theBCnut]

Thanks for bumping this Cyndi

I started to answer this and got called away and had it in my head that I had answered it. First, you can add up to 20% or 1/5 without throwing the balance off. Cut your roll into 1/2 lb pieces and refreeze any that you aren’t using immediately. Out of the 1/2 lb that you kept out, divide that into 1/4ths which would be about 2 oz and add that to her evening meal.

[theBCnut]

I had to run off, but I had more, so here I am back.

FreeholdHound, you say you feed your dog 1 1/2 cups twice a day. That makes 3 cups total, so you can replace about 1/2 cup of kibble with raw. The 2 oz I suggested in my last post is about 1/8 cup, so you can double that amount and feed about 4oz of raw every day. You actually have a little more wiggle room than that, but I always found it easier to feed an amount of raw that worked for me and adjust the kibble portion, instead of the other way around.

BTW, the 1lb chubs are only pennies more and are way easier to deal with.

[Cyndi]

I TOTALLY agree about buying the 1lb. chubs instead of the 5lb ones. I ordered a 5lb one with my very first order and I will never do that again. I get all 1 pounders now. They are MUCH easier to work with! Let us know how Harry likes it! 🙂

[FreeholdHound]

I’ll have to remember the 1 lb rolls… Just got finished slicing through the 5lb roll -whew!! I don’t have a scale so based the patties on a Bubba Burger (very professional I know). I made a few smaller as starter packs. By the time I got done dividing up the ground sardines Harry was standing at the kitchen gate barking like a nut, so he got some for a treat. Blown away by the size of the turkey necks- that’s a new one for us.
Thank you soooo much for all the great replies! It all looks wonderful (well, as wonderful as raw meat & fish can look). Now lets hope he eats it!!! Lol

[InkedMarie]

Freehold: buy a scale!

[theBCnut]

I get turkey necks from our local butcher and they are about 1 1/2 lbs each.

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