[Mary W]

My normally 14-15 lb bichon had a bladder stone removed and put on prescription food to dissolve (didn’t work) and prescription U/D after. He had one oxalate stone, is older but in good health except for hip arthritis. He is now 17.5 lbs (he was 18) and it is not good for his hip or health. 1 -1 1/2 cup/day is recommended. I have cut him back to only ONE-HALF cup/day and he has not lost much if any weight after 3-4 months! He also gets unsalted broth/water and cauliflower for treats;both are low oxalate,low calorie. He lost weight easily in 3 months or so before his stone on Wellness Healthy weight. I’m thinking of switching him back to that food JUST until he loses some weight (2-3 months), then back to his u/d, but I’m concerned about stone formation on regular food. The extra weight has not helped his arthritis. I feel trapped between overweight/bladder stone formation. The 1/4 cup/feeding he gets now is not much food-so I am concerned about cutting back u/d further. He is always hungry and searching for food as it is. Any ideas?

[Mary L]

If it’s not medically problematic, you could add green beans, carrots or other veggies to the daily diet, and/or you could consider feeding 50% wellness and 50% U/D. But truly, you should bring your concerns to the vet and discuss them, they are valid. There may be other foods besides U/D that you could try.

[weezerweeks]

You can’t dissolve oxalate stones only sturvites. I would look for different food maybe some of the experts on hear can help you.

[Dori]

Hopefully Shawna or one of the other experts on stones will chime in. Are you feeding him grain free? If you’re not, you should be. That will get the weight off him. Grain free is what caused my three dogs to lose weight rather quickly, too.

In my opinion you are feeding him entirely too small of an amount of food. The reason he’s always looking for food and acting hungry is because he is hungry. He’s starving. My 5, 6 and 7.3 lb. dogs each eat 1/4 cup twice a day. Even if he weighed what you think is his ideal weight, 1/2 cup per day is way way way to little. Please consider going to a grain free food, that will get some weight off, and feed him more. The poor little guy is hungry.

[PetNutritionist]

Hello,
First off I would like to say that the Food that you are feeding your dog, is contributing to the bladder stones and gaining weight.
Diets high in grain and vegetables produce alkaline urine, which allows certain stones to form.
1. thing to get changed right off the bat, is the food. Vets are very helpful with figuring out and helping to remedy problems that your dogs are facing. But many of them are uneducated with dog food nutrition. I have studied Dog and Cat nutrition very intensely due to my dog almost dying because our vet recommended Pedigree dog food.
Science diet, Hills food from the vet and even in pet stores are CRAP. Any food that you can buy in a grocery store is CRAP. What you feed is what you get out of your dog. and I have helped MANY MANY pet parents learn how to better their dogs lives by just changing what they eat.
Your dog needs to avoid food with Grains. If a dog food ingredients has Rice, Brown Rice, Barley, Corn, Grain, Whole Grain, or such grains in the first 5-10 ingredients, its not food your dog is suppose to be eating.
GRAIN FREE FOOD is what your dog should be eating in order to loose weight and avoid bladder stones.
I suggest Acana because they are Grain Free, First Mate because again they are Grain Free and have always been grain free (My dogs are on this) and other foods that are grain free!
Your dog should also be eating twice a day only. As well needing to give it to her at a reduced amount till He/She looses weight.
Once in the morning and once at night, food should be measured so you know how much your dog is eating.
To help with arthritis, I would look into giving your dog some glucosamine and chondroitin.
You can actually give the ones you get at your drug store and mix it in with wet food and give it to her one a spoon. Make sure to get the pill capsule ones so you can open it and mix in with wet food.
As well, try and start giving Cranberry supplements to help with the unitary tract. You can as well use the ones you get at the drug stores or go with this brand for animals specifically
http://cranimal.com/products.html

You wouldn’t eat Macdonalds every day if you were trying to loose weight and care for your health would you? That is what you are giving your dog if you feed it Science diet, Hills or any food with Grains.

I know this will help a lot because I’ve done it personally myself. But I hope you try it and see for yourself.
Cheers

[Dori]

Mary W. Please take the PetNutritionists advice. She has given you very sound advice especially considering that she has dealt with these issues.

[aimee]

I disagree I see the advice that “petnutritionist” gave as being inappropriate.

[Dori]

In what way? I’m curious so I don’t give anyone miss information. I too thought she should be feeding grain free. I just think she’s not feeding enough food and is acting hungry cause it is. I follow your posts and really are incredibly smart re nutrition. I remember reading that you study nutrition so I like get your input. I’ve only had one dog years ago that used to get stones, coincidentally a Bichon also. But I don’t remember enough about about them to give advice on the stones. He was one of my very first dogs so a long long time ago. We were on well water at the time.

[Beryl C]

Hi
I have a collie cross she is ten years old and she has gained a bit of weight.
I put her on the Hills Science diet light.I found that she was always hungry she became incontinent in the house.
The amount of waste she was generating was unreal.I have changed her food to James Wellbeloved lamb and Rice kibble and what a change.she hasn’t had any accidents since.
She is a different dog.I can’t believe that foods that don’t agree with your dog can affect them in such a way.

[Mary W]

Hi!
Thank you all. I know he is hungry and I’m a pharmacist with some medical knowledge and I know this u/d is high in grain, low in protein-therefore, he will eat his body’s own protein when he is hungry-he is NOT getting enough, I agree. I am just afraid to go back to the Wellness which he did so well on before the stone-main ingredient is chicken (protein). ALL I’ve read on the web is contradictory regarding oxalate stones (which require surgery).Some say acidic is bad, some say alkaline is bad-most say protein is bad etc. VERY CONFUSING. I will ask my vet about grain free but they clearly are not experts on nutrition as one of you wisely pointed out. I DID find a number of ‘veterinary’ site that provides nutritional counseling for dogs to your own vet.CAN ANYONE recommend one or have any knowledge of these places? You and your vet submit details to the nutritionists and they reccommend…if ANYONE has any knowledge on these places, please let me know and we will try that next-my vet is great but has no clue as to diets… Thank you ALL so much for taking the time…my dog should be well nourished and a healthy weight-just have to find the safest way to do that-I will increase food in the meantime.

[Bobby dog]

Hi Mary W:
I have not had furry friend with this ailment, but I thought I would list a website for you to look into in the mean time while the posters with experience in this illness provide more feedback for you.

Balanceit.com has been suggested by regular posters on DFA. I have it bookmarked in case I ever find a need for this resource.

I have not used their service, but I believe that they will work with your Vet to come up with a meal plan for your pup. They also sell products on the website as well.

It looks like dchassett has asked Aimee to elaborate on her initial post so you should be getting more feedback in the near future. Good luck!!!!

[Nancy C]

Oh My do I need to ask YOU a question — to the Pet Nutritionist who just responded to “HELP! Dog Eating Hills…”
MY DOG IS ON HILLS AND I AM MISERABLE ABOUT IT.
He is the GSD who the kind people on this website have helped me with. 18 mos old in Jan when I got him. Great Dog. Was fine then and doing great on TOW High Prairie. I suddenly discovered the recall hx of Diamond & immediately started transitioning him to Origen, very slowly– starting w 1/8 cup Origen to 2 cups TOW morning and night. At 50/50 he started loose afternoon stools. Morning stools normal. Moved to Acana slowly. At 50/50 same thing. Afternoon stool like custard. Morning fine. Vet said she thought it could be bec he had so much exercise in the mornings which made PM stools so soft. But said it could also be that the Champion food is too rich. This had gone on for several weeks so the vet gave him Metronidazol and sent us home with a bag of HILLS RX W/D. The loose stools were replaced by dry sawdust clumps of poop which he worked hard to push out. He did fine on that for a week so the vet said at the check up to start slowly transitioning him to Hills Sensitive Stomach. She said we would not keep him on this but she had seen a lot of dogs improve with a bag of this. Loose stools started within a day – He pooped custard all weekend in my house and out, uncontrollable, and I was up three times last Sunday night with him running outside to poop. Back to the vet on Monday. Lab work negative – no worms. She said not to feed him until Monday afternoon and gave me canned W/D HILLS. Said give 1/2 can Monday afternoon and 1/2 can MOnday night. Tuesday we finished up the HIlls CAnned Crap at lunch and started HILLS W/D dry. His poops are now all dry solid sawdusty. He sometimes groans as he strains. Vet said to keep him on this for a MONTH but I cannot bear watching this and Whole Grain CORN is the first ingredient. I bought more cans but Water, Egg Particles and Whole Grain Corn are the first ingredients. I know this is wrong. He has lost 2 pounds. He now has a quiet period for 2 hours after all meals to support digestion and plays afterward. I bought a Slow Eating Bowl and it REALLY slows him down.
Surely there is a better way than HILLS to help this dog.
I bought a bag of Dr. Tims, planning to try that next. In a way I am scared but I am also scared to face 3 more weeks on HILLS W/D DRY.
Advice? Thank you.

[Dori]

Nancy C. Who are you addressing the question to?

[Nancy C]

Sorry – was off line a while. To the Pet Nutritionist. I need to come up with a solution OTHER than HILLS W/D for my dog. Maybe I am ignorant but that food scares me. The FIRST ingredient for the dry food is WHOLE GRAIN CORN — and I thought corn was bad for dogs. His stools come out in pieces the size of fireball bubble gum and ping pong balls. So dry it makes me hurt. This CAN’T be good for his GI track. He was on it one whole week and then we moved him last friday to Science Diet Sensitive Stomach and he pooped custard all last weekend. So on MOnday we put him back on it and the poops are dry.
The vet says do this for a month. ugh.
Any thoughts? I had thought I could add that Organic Paul Newmans canned food as a topper and maybe add a probiotic and see how that goes. ??? Boy I need help.
Thank you !

[Catherine T]

From all i have read the Hills science diet is no good….the corn is bad fir the dog so maybe look into a grain free food….there is on this site a list of the best dog foods….go to the top and click on reviews…..

[Karl K]

my pugs has had her second surgery so about 4,000 dollars with all visits, the hills brands is awesome, but it is a prescription and almost 4.00 dollars a can, still cheaper than the surgery but still pricey at 42.00 a case are there alternatives?

[anonymous]

No.
Have you checked the internet for prices? As long as your vet okays it you don’t have to buy it from him.

More Nonsense from Holistic Vets about Commercial Therapeutic Diets

Copied from a previous post:
Also, if the dog is overweight, get the extra weight off, increase walks/exercise/activity.
Work closely with your vet, when the dog has been stable 6 months to 1 year then you can talk about diet changes.
“Dogs that get urinary tract infections and bladder stones tend to have a genetic predisposition, combine that with not enough water intake, not enough opportunities to urinate and you have a problem”.
“Whatever you decide to feed, add water to the kibble or canned food, even presoak and add water. Take out to urinate at least every 4 hours (every 2 hours is ideal) stagnant conditions in the bladder are conducive to bladder stone formation”.
“Always have fresh water available for the dog 24/7”.
“Supplements are crap, don’t waste your money unless your vet recommends something specific for your dog”.
Ps: You think the prescription food is expensive. Try emergency surgery for a blocked urethra.
Been there, done that.
Regarding cranberry: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=cranberry
Also there are prescription meds for stubborn cases, talk to your vet.
Was an ultrasound done? Dogs can have more than one type of stone, such as calcium oxalate and struvite…that was the case with my dog that had reoccurring UTIs.
This is not veterinary advice; consult your veterinarian.
PS: Note recent question on struvite in comments: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2016/09/science-based-veterinary-nutrition-success-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-121266
Good luck

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