[David M]

I know Hartz has a terrible reputation, but my wife decided to give our dog a bath with that shampoo not knowing how Hartz has this terrible rep. I had no knowledge she was doing this. We did use this shampoo a couple years ago once, (I had no knowledge how bad Hartz can be at the time), and he didn’t experience any side effects or anything. Last night when she gave him a bath he seemed completely normal after the bath and today he seems fine. I’m just kind of leery of any long term effects if any. From what I seen if anything were too happen it would have happened a few hours after the bath. A few hours later we rinsed him off with just water just incase. Even though he didn’t experience anything, we’re still never gonna use this product again.

[Anonymous]

They are all pesticides, if you read and compare the ingredients with similar products, you won’t see much difference.
Unfortunately, we need these products to combat Lyme and fleas….diseases they carry.
Some products may agree with an individual dog better than another.
See what your vet recommends. It depends on how bad the ticks/fleas are in your area.
I find avoidance (tall grass, woods) goes a long way to help, too.
I am leery of the new oral agents, however, I just don’t trust them.

PS: The “natural” stuff doesn’t work.
I use a flea/tick shampoo on my senior dog, about every week or two in the summer, I figure it’s milder than the topicals….plus he got a rash from a amitraz collar, although my other dogs tolerate the collars fine.

[DogFoodie]

To issue a blanket statement saying that “the natural stuff doesn’t work,” is not at all accurate or fair. There are plenty of natural products that are proven effective.

David, are you currently having a problem with your dog’s having fleas?

[Anonymous]

I am just going by what veterinarians(the ones that were helpful) including specialists have told me. Also, I am including my own experience with trying various methods of flea/tick control for many years. I have had 3 dogs test positive for Lyme. One suffered a great deal before she succumbed to complications of the disease. It is a nasty disease when it takes hold.
It is my opinion that the “natural stuff” is not strong enough to be effective.

[aquariangt]

I use a natural flea and tick spray, and I live in the foothills of the mountains, so I have a lot of “nature” around me. Never had any flea or tick problems!

[Anonymous]

Maybe you have been lucky. I would not be comfortable taking that chance. As I said, I have been through the ugly, don’t want to see it again, if I can avoid it.

PS: Lyme can be caused by 1 tick bite and can sometimes lie dormant for years before it shows symptoms.

[aquariangt]

Maybe, or maybe you have been unlucky. Point being that your blanket statements about “natural” remedies are inaccurate.

[DogFoodie]

Lyme is transmitted by ticks, not fleas.

“There is no credible evidence that Lyme disease can be transmitted through air, food, water, or from the bites of mosquitoes, flies, fleas, or lice.”

http://www.cdc.gov/lyme/transmission/

[Anonymous]

“Lyme is transmitted by ticks, not fleas”.

I believe the product in question claims to kill fleas and ticks. Fleas can be just as troublesome, if not more so.

[Anonymous]

“Maybe, or maybe you have been unlucky. Point being that your blanket statements about “natural” remedies are inaccurate”.

Maybe your opinion is inaccurate? After all, I am just sharing my experience, I don’t claim to know everything.

[aquariangt]

Maybe, but I’m a bit less blind than you are when it comes to exploring all options. You jump on here to immediately discredit anyone who goes a different route than you do. you link an exceptionally one sided vet blog as a source, and call it a day.

If a natural remedy has worked for even one person, this statement:

“The “natural” stuff doesn’t work.” that you gave a few posts up, is in fact inaccurate.

[Anonymous]

Well, I guess we will have to agree to disagree 🙂

If I have helped 1 person make a decision, I am happy.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by Anonymous.

[Anonymous]

BTW: Many of you regulars post links to the same old sites (that support your opinions) over and over again, too.
Just an observation. In case you weren’t aware.

[aimee]

Hi Red,

I guess I wouldn’t necessarily say natural products don’t work but I think I understand what you mean. They “work” to some degree. Depending on the product they may require very frequent reapplications to be efficacious. Under heavy challenge they likely will fail to control parasites and disease transmission to a degree that would be desired.

Then again what constitutes natural? Many pesticides are found in nature.

BTW I think skeptvet is pretty fair and objective

[Shawna]

I think when one wants to see the world as black and white, it will be black and white regardless of what research is or is not available (not meaning you aimee).

“About 70 plant extracts were tested for their ability to repel the attacks of blood-sucking arthropods. It was found that a CO2 extract of the seeds of the Mediterranean plant Vitex agnus castus (monk’s pepper) can be used as a spray to keep away especially Ixodes ricinus and Rhipicephalus sanguineus ticks from animals and humans for at least 6 h. In addition mosquitoes, biting flies and fleas are also repelled for about 6 h.” http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00436-004-1297-z

“The interest in the use of monoterpenes for insect pest and pathogen control originates from the need for pesticide products with less negative environmental and health impacts than highly effective synthetic pesticides. The expanding literature on the possibility of the use of these monoterpenes is reviewed and focused on the effects of limonene on various bioorganisms. Limonene is used as insecticide to control ectoparasites of pet animals, but it has activity against many insects, mites, and microorganisms.” http://www.oaj.tsv.fi/index.php/AFS/article/view/5697

There are more if one only took the time to actually look.

[aimee]

I remember limonene…. from citrus peels wasn’t it? It was all the rage at one time but then pulled due to side effects i think. Natural doesn’t = safe. If you are using something that kill fleas and ticks there will always be pro’s and con’s no matter what you choose.

[David M]

Yeah Dogfoodie, he’s been off and on with fleas all summer. We tried Dawn, a “natural shampoo”, and most recently this Hartz crap. I’m also very leery of Frontline and all the other patches or whatever they are. Especially since he’s a small dog.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by David M.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by David M.

[Anonymous]

Bathing may reduce the numbers of fleas temporarily, but it provides no lasting protection, and dogs with flea allergies will continue to suffer if they are not protected from flea exposure.
If you have carpeting in your home, you may have to get it professionally treated (fumigation), fleas love carpeting. Hope this helps.

[Shawna]

No, I don’t think limonene has been pulled. Merck Vet Manual discusses it.

“d-Limonene

d-Limonene is used for flea control on cats and for other insect pests. At recommended dosages, the solution containing d-limonene appears to be safe. Increasing the concentration 5 to 10 times in sprays or dips increases the severity of toxic signs. These signs can include drooling, tremors, lack of coordination, and dangerously low body temperature. In dogs, ingestion of d‑limonene by mouth causes vomiting.” http://www.merckvetmanual.com/pethealth/special_subjects/poisoning/insecticide_poisoning.html

I wholeheartedly agree that just because something is natural doesn’t make it inherently safe. That was not the argument here though, it was whether natural is “effective” or not. When evaluating safety you have to look at quality of product too.

[Shawna]

David M,

Diatomaceous Earth (food grade only) is pretty effective at controlling fleas. It can be messy though. It’s a flour like texture and is applied to the coat of the dog. It doesn’t prevent fleas from getting on the dog but once they do the diatoms have edges that slice the endoskeleton of the bug (flea). The flea then dehydrates and dies. You have to be careful during application that it is not inhaled as it can damage the lungs but one on works for a week or two (or until the pup is bathed). It’s inexpensive and an be applied as much as needed. It can dry out the skin if used excessively though.

Only one of my six ever has an issue with fleas (mostly at the end of the season when the weather starts to change). I use DE exclusively on her and it works every time. She’s a Pom so application is tedious to get down to the skin but she’s small so not horrible. I separate her fur, drop a large pinch on the skin and then rub in. I only put it in the areas I see / feel flea dirt versus all over.

[Kristin C]

Is it possible the immune system of the dog contributes to the frequency of flea and/or tick problems? No one seems to have mentioned that in this post so just wondering. I feed my dogs B-complex vitamins with their raw food, plus am currently giving them each 1/2 Advantix dose every 8 weeks and there has not been one tick on either of them this summer. No fleas either as far as I can tell. I think they are both pretty healthy is my point, and I am considering taking them off Advantix completely next season, keeping up with the B-complex, liver treats and raw food.

[C4D]

Shawna, I completely agree with you on DE. It also works for fleas in the home if dusted on the carpeting (very gently, using a mask) and especially in the baseboards.

Red, I actually agree with you in the comment on tall grass. I live in an area that is “crawling with ticks”. Of my 3 dogs, only 1 gets any ticks on him and I literally have to drag him out of the tall grass near a wetland that is notorious for ticks.

I don’t agree with you and skeptvet on most issues, no surprise that aimee does. I’ve used many of the “natural” treatments and they do work as DogFoodie and AquarianGT have said and have found that they work quite well, including using a natural treatment for Demodex mange and the dog has been clear for 10 months now.

Kristin C, I do think the immune system might possibly help fleas, but ticks just seem to attach if the dog is in the right place at the right time. However, if you’re using Advantix, even at a half dose, that would negate your assumption as you are still using a pesticide to curb a possible problem. You would have to not use it to see if it works.

[Kristin C]

C4D-I was just asking a question about the possibility of the immune system being a factor. I actually live in Salem, CT, Lyme tick heaven. We live on 2 1/2 acres where my dogs have regular free roam in the woods. One of them (6 yrs) has had 10 ticks a week in the past (with Advantix). Since switching her to raw food, plus B-vitamins, even with a half dose of Advantix I can’t remember the last time she had a tick. My younger dog (2 yrs) has never had a tick, and she has spent a considerable time roaming the woods, and she is on the same raw food, B-vitamins, half dose of Advantix. I was worried a few months ago about fleas since they were both itchy, but I added more chicken to their raw food diet and that solved it.

[C4D]

Hi Kristen C,

It’s an interesting theory. I do think a healthy immune system could be a great help. All 3 of the dogs @ my house eat identical diets, including fresh and raw as 1 meal per day. The only dog that got ticks this year is the one who insists on going through all of the tall grass in a known tick area. I think you might have gotten lucky, but I’d love to hear what you do & the subsequent results next year. 🙂

[Kristin C]

Lucky? 1 dog going from 10 ticks per week to none, and 1 dog never having ticks living here is lucky? I think there is more to tick and flea infestation than is being discussed. If I am brave enough next year I will completely omit the Advantix and just go with feeding a raw diet plus B-vitamins and see what happens. I will say that I have almost completely eliminated one of my dogs heart murmurs by feeding her raw heart, so I do believe a lot has to do with diet.

[C4D]

Hi Kristin C,

I’m in complete agreement with you on dogs being fed a more natural, balanced diet and that is the building block to fending off diseases. It often helps dogs that already are diagnosed with various conditions such as diabetes and seizures, etc. It sounds like your doing all the right things for your dog with the heart murmur too.

I also believe that way too many chemicals are being put on our dogs and personally use minimal, if any topicals. I actually just pull the ticks off my dogs, identify them (we have deer and brown dog ticks in abundance in my area as well as Lyme Disease) and try to keep them out of areas of known infestations. My guy that got the ticks got no less than 6 in less than a week’s time. I’ve also used some natural repellants on my dogs after getting ticks with great success.

I’m not disagreeing with you. I’m just saying it would be interesting to hear what happens if you decide to try omitting the Advantix. Here’s an interesting link on fleas from Dr. Peter Dobias:

http://peterdobias.com/blogs/blog/34542021-can-feeding-a-raw-diet-prevent-fleas

Good luck with your pups!

[Bayne K]

Shampoo is not a complete treatment by itself
We hate to break it to you, but even the best flea shampoo is not a complete treatment for fleas by itself.

That’s ’cause even the most effective flea shampoos won’t kill the entire population of fleas on your dog. Sure, the most potent shampoos can wipe out upwards of 90% of the infestation but don’t expect your dog to be totally clear of fleas, especially after the first wash. Getting rid of fleas requires a more holistic approach, which brings us to…

Your house matters a lot
Your dog may be the Ground Zero for the flea infestation but trust us when we say the infestation has probably spread a lot further than your dog’s fur. Fleas lay eggs on your dog but the eggs aren’t sticky so they tend to roll right off your dog’s fur and land all over your house – the carpet, the furniture, your dog’s bedding, your bed and so on.

If your dog is infested with fleas, there’s a very good chance that there are flea eggs and larvae lurking in and around your home. That means that you can rid your dog of the fleas that are currently living on him, but he’ll just pick up another batch as soon as he lies down on the carpet or his bed.

That’s why it is absolutely essential that you combine getting rid of fleas on your dog with getting rid of fleas in your home.

Shampoo smart
A good tip to make use of before you lather your dog up with flea shampoo: First, wet and apply the flea shampoo all the way around their neck. Lather that area immediately so the fleas can’t flee (pun intended) up from the body to the face.

Once you’ve secured the neck roadblock, go ahead and shampoo up the rest of your dog’s body.

Another helpful tip is to ease the entire process by bringing in some doggy treats to keep them busy while you lather and wait patiently for the fleas to die.

8 Best Effective Flea Shampoos for Small Dogs
https://goo.gl/2SBc5f

[Walter P]

Many “flea shampoos” are formulated with herbs or essential oils, or chemicals.

In truth, any good quality non‑medicated shampoo, lathered up well and left on 10 ‑ 15 minutes will remove fleas.
Using shampoos made for dogs is important if you have to repeat bathing frequently since there are differences in skin pH.

Do look for companies using environmentally sustainable packaging as their ingredients will usually be the safest.
For the rare flea shampoo, it is fine to use any mild soap or shampoo. Personally, I love the grapefruit and coconut shampoo (household cleaner) by Forever Green.

Flea comb and massage your dog or cat while the shampoo is smothering the fleas. Apply the shampoo to a dry dog for better effect.

Sing to your dog or cat, talk silly, laugh and make this fun for all. Rinse two to three times. Be sure to always
Check for any residual fleas or flea dirt after your pet is dry and remove it, or you will think you are re‑infested when you check the next few days.

Source: Best Anti-Flea Shampoos For dogs in 2020

[Author]

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