[haleycookie]

I would consider not recommending anything, but purina hills and rc as bashing other brands. There are plenty of other options out there of quality meat based foods that far surpass those brands. Posts that are deleted, reprimanded, etc for recommending anything else are indeed bashing the brands.
So my suspicions are correct. Still very close minded, to anything other than the companies funding the research and wsava. It’s unfortunate and clearly has massive conflict of interest.
Taurine problems can’t be solved with grains. Considering taurine isn’t found in grains. A vet nutritionalist could tell you that, but I suppose a nutritionalist is only as good as the company they work for.

[christine v]

Reading some of the replies in this thread has made it crystal clear that the tone, close mindedness and blinkers are still on in the DCM group.
I will bet my bottom dollar that when this all comes to a head it will be clear as day which company is responsible for the majority of the fear mongering and propaganda..

[crazy4cats]

Again, some grains contain the precursors that dogs need to synthesize taurine on their own. So, yes, they can be very important. All the ingredients need to work together to make a complete nutrient package.

And, again, and most important, most of the dogs being diagnosed are NOT taurine deficient. So, your continued recommendation of feeding foods high in meat content is not necessarily a fix.

Any company can choose to part with some of their profits and hire a team of experts, do some research and controlled feed trials. There is no one stopping them.

Veterinary nutritionists have years of education. They should be shown some respect.

[christine v]

Crazy4cats It depends who’s payroll these nutritionists are on.. I have much more respect for independent Veterinary nutritionists who arent getting paid by the big 4.

[InkedMarie]

In the group I am in, raw and home cooked are fine as long as a board certified nutritionist (I cannot remember exactly what the credentials have to be) designs the “recipe”.

[InkedMarie]

Here is what I don’t get. IF we’re all talking about the same group, when you join, you agree to read the units. Quite obviously, many people don’t. Read the units, spend a little time reading posts and you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to see what the group is there for and who runs it.

Professionals started the group…ie Dr Joshua Stern and many others. I will listen to their recommendations over anyone else. They recommend feeding foods that follow WSAVA guidelines. It’s that simple. That’s the recommendation. Currently, Royal Canin, Science Diet, Eukanuba, Iams and Purina are the only WSAVA compliant. There is no “I think my food is following”…..they either are or they aren’t. It’s not an interpretation. If you think your food is, print out the guidelines and call the company. See if they are compliant. The hopes is that other companies will start following the guidelines.

Spend time reading/read the units and you will read what moderators say: there are hard & fast rules for the group. It’s science based. Opinions on many points aren’t allowed. They will be deleted. Recommend non WSAVA compliant foods….it will be deleted. Recommend home cooked or raw without being designed by a nutritionist (with credentials I’m not positive about)….it will be deleted.

It does not matter who works for who…..and I have no clue who does nor do I care. Everyone has to earn a living. If the food follows WSAVA compliant, it is recommended.

If you don’t like the group, leave. It’s that simple. It’s Facebook people. There are other groups.

If you’re here asking questions and we discuss DCM and post links to help….read them. Stop asking about other foods & if they’re good for this issue. We’ve told you what the recommendation is. If you don’t want to feed those foods….fine. It’s hard to be passionate about this issue, try to help then have people ignore. I will only continue to post in hopes others are reading and may be somewhat educated.

Again….it’s a FB group. Don’t like what they say? Leave. I have said that for years about DFA. Don’t like the reviews? There are other sites that may be to your liking.

[Bobby dog]

“Spend time reading/read the units and you will read what moderators say: there are hard & fast rules for the group. It’s science based. Opinions on many points aren’t allowed. They will be deleted. Recommend non WSAVA compliant foods….it will be deleted. Recommend home cooked or raw without being designed by a nutritionist (with credentials I’m not positive about)….it will be deleted…There is no “I think my food is following”…..they either are or they aren’t. It’s not an interpretation…Again….it’s a FB group. Don’t like what they say? Leave.”

What InkedMarie wrote, it’s pretty simple…

[Sanne]

Well said Marie!! Pretty much everything I am thinking but written much better than if I had tried

[InkedMarie]

Thanks BobbyDog & Sanne. Not bad for 5 something in the morning!

[Lauren D]

I don’t know if this has been covered here or not, but I would like to point out the acknowledgments section in this DCM study: https://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/full/10.2460/javma.253.11.1390

“Within the past 3 years, Dr. Freeman has received research support from Aratana Therapeutics, Nestlé Purina PetCare, and Royal Canin; has consulted with Aratana Therapeutics and Nestlé Purina PetCare; has given sponsored talks for Aratana Therapeutics, Hill’s Pet Nutrition, and Nestlé Purina PetCare; and has served on a scientific advisory board for Aratana Therapeutics. Within the past 3 years, Dr. Rush has received research support from Aratana Therapeutics, Nestlé Purina PetCare, and Royal Canin and has consulted with Aratana Therapeutics and Nestlé Purina PetCare. Within the past 3 years, Dr. Adin has received research support from Nestlé Purina PetCare. All other authors report no relationships relevant to the contents of this editorial to disclose.”

So when all of a sudden I see posts insisting that the only acceptable foods to feed these days are Hills Purina and Royal Canin, it raises some alarm bells here.

I’m currently feeding a grain-free food and have not switched, but I’m doing own reading and will come to a conclusion eventually. It is unlikely that I would ever switch to one of those brands anyways, so I’ll probably look at Fromm if I think my dogs would do better with added grain.

[Bobby dog]

Why aren’t other pet food companies funding research for our beloved companions?

[crazy4cats]

Exactly BDog! The fact that those companies are doing their own and donating to research is exactly why I WOULD choose their food to feed my pets. Lack of studies on the other brands makes it hard to know if they are good or not.

The smaller companies are certainly charging enough for their foods that one would think they could afford to contribute to some testing and studies. In addition, employ a team of experts to develop their formulas. But, instead they are using untested “exotic” ingredients that sound yummy to humans but may not being formulated properly for our furries.

[haleycookie]

Y’all seem to forget the small companies are using quality meat and other ingredients appropriate for a mesocarnivore (not all of them but a lot are). Purina hills and rc are owned by some of the largest food companies in the world. Of course there’s billions to fund biased research. Especially when the majority of their foods are mostly made up of the three cheapest and most prolific grains in the world, corn, soy, and wheat. Of course, OF COURSE there’s going to be lots of room for funding this study that is in their favor. Not as much money for these other companies who started from nothing and are still family owned and buying expensive meat cuts, not the waste of human meat factory farming like the big 3.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 9 months ago by haleycookie.

[Lauren D]

The big three had YEARS to adapt to what consumers were switching to and improve the quality of their foods but did they? No. I’m not against the fact that they’re doing research I just find it mighty suspicious that the early research basically says “hey dogs are getting sick but we really don’t know exactly why but we are pretty sure it’s mostly affecting dogs not eating our foods”.

Sure seems convenient. And I’m sure if they ever do find something that suggests what they’re doing isn’t perfect they’ll do a quiet ingredient change before releasing anything. This sort of thing has been done for YEARS with human food too with large industries paying for research that supports the claims they want. Low fat anyone?

[joanne l]

I agree, in a nutshell it sounds like, Purina, Hills and RC have the science of nutrition down right, and the small companies have better ingredients. Now if you put them together you will get great food. It is always something.

[Bobby dog]

HC, who funded the study referenced? “Of course, OF COURSE there’s going to be lots of room for funding this study that is in their favor.” I was replying to the acknowledgement section of the study listing three of the authors relationships, not the funding source of the study.

[Bobby dog]

Lauren D: Can you please reference the DCM studies funded by any of the Big 3?

[Lauren D]

Bobby dog – https://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/full/10.2460/javma.253.11.1390

I don’t know how many studies there have been on the subject, this was one that I kept coming across when articles would refer to a DCM study. Check the acknowledgements section.

EDIT – This is probably the only study being readily linked because it’s the only one containing the words DCM and diet that was available in full for free on AVMA. There were 10 in total that contained those words although some of them appeared to be a little bit more in the weeds on the subject so I don’t know if all are relevant or not.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 9 months ago by Lauren D.

[Ana C]

My dogs have pancreatitis history; therefore, they need low fat dog food. Of 9 best low fat dry food recommended by DFA, 7 are grain free. That leaves 2 brands with very high carbs. They are not from big 4.

[Sanne]

All of the big brands have low fat foods. Royal Canin and Purina also make prescription foods specifically for pancreatitis too.

[Ana C]

My vet did recommend Purina One Smartblend Healthy Weight kibbles which has 2.5 stars from DFA.

[crazy4cats]

Don’t worry about the DFA star rating! Especially not for a dog with a medical condition. I feed my dogs Purina ProPlan Large Breed Weight Management. I feel that it should be rated a 10 for my dogs.

I don’t agree with the rating system on this site. You can use the information to rate the food however you want. Purina is a good company that has been around for years. They use a team of experts to formulate their food. Good luck!

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