[Patricia A]

I never thought to look at expiration date on the kibble brand I’ve fed for several years. . I purchase at a very frequented pet supply store so always thought was manufactured at least within a year. Well kind of shocked when checked date and saw manufactured in 2019. However best to use date is 2024.
I’ve read that kibble has so many preservatives that will last unopened for years. However, also read that can go rancid even unopened and will only last approx 12-18 months past manufacturing date. Aimee chime in please.

• This topic was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by Patricia A.

[Patricia A]

Just wanted to add that I look at Stella n Chewy’s website . States under frequently asked questions that their raw and kibble products have an expiration date of 14-18 months past the date of production on their bags.
So will be going back to my Pet Supply store and bringing back unopened I just purchased this week. I’m sure the last one I just threw out was probably outdated also. Didn’t feel like going through outside garbage.

[aimee]

Hi Patricia,

When purchasing kibble for my own pets, I want something that is no longer than 6 months post production date. My 6 month rule isn’t written in stone and that number is based on absolutely nothing other than my own personal preference. Often times what I’m buying is ~2- 3months post production date but once the bag was a mere 10 days post production date!

Natural preservatives simply are not going to have the anti oxidant potential as synthetics and since consumer demand is for natural preservatives that is the way a lot of products are produced. Storge conditions in the manufacturer warehouse and distribution center and pet store can impact how well the preservatives “hold”. I suspect under adverse storage they may not hold up for full 12-18 months so I’m hedging my bet by using shorter cut off. But this is all conjecture on my part.

Interesting that Stella and Chewy’s states an expiration of 14-18 months post production in their FAQ and the bag is dated out 5 years. Have you contacted them for an explanation? You might want to inquire if they have held the food under adverse conditions such as high heat and humidity for 5 years and then tested it to ensure excessive oxidation did not occur

While in the FAQ section, the question on feeding large breed puppies caught my eye. Their answer makes no sense to me. They write:” Things are more limited with our kibble, as you would need to stick with the puppy-specific kibble recipe (calcium and DHA levels aren’t enough for large breed puppies in non-puppy formulas)”

It seems to me they are saying there is not enough calcium or DHA in their diets that are labeled as formulated for all life stages except the growth of large breed puppies. AAFCO’s min for Ca and DHA are the same for ALL puppies. AAFCO’s profile does not require more Ca for large breed growth. The AAFCO profile places a LIMIT on how much Ca can be in a diet for large breed puppies. Diets that are labeled for growth except large breeds can only mean that the calcium level in the food EXCEEDS the maximum NOT that there is not enough calcium in the food for a large breed puppy. I’d find it very disturbing if they didn’t understand this basic nutritional concept.

[crazy4cats]

Is there a production date as well as an expiration date posted on the bags? I’ve only noticed expiration dates.

[Patricia A]

Read this 3x’s
“Things are more limited with our kibble, as you would need to stick with the puppy-specific kibble recipe (calcium and DHA levels aren’t enough for large breed puppies in non-puppy formulas)”. I get what you’re saying.
My understanding is that Large breed puppies need LESS calcium per calorie then puppies who grow to be small/medium adults. So their “all life stages” formula all contain too LITTLE calcium for large breeds so puppy formula has MORE so feed that??
So they’re saying their “all life stages” formulas contain LESS calcium and in actuality it should contain TOO MUCH calcium for large breed puppies.
So is this just written backwards or in your analysis of “all life stages” it actually falls short of calcium necessary for adults dogs ?
When I call how should I address this?

[Patricia A]

Hi CFC,
On back corner of bag it has Stella & Chewy’s 2019 . On front left corner it has LOT # and underneath Best USED BY JAN-04-2024.
Now is it possible that the front date is just when the bag was made? Does your kibble have the manufactured date as well as the BEST USE BY date?
I imagine if I call they will just say that they have special kibble bags that keeps the oil from going rancid and thus a longer stay fresh date?? UHHH
I’m about to give up on this brand between this and what Aimee is pointing out .

[Patricia A]

Hi CFC,
On back corner of bag it has Stella & Chewy’s 2019 . On front left corner it has LOT # and underneath Best USED BY JAN-04-2024.
Now is it possible that the front date is just when the bag was made? Does your kibble have the manufactured date as well as the BEST USE BY date?
I imagine if I call they will just say that they have special kibble bags that keeps the oil from going rancid and thus a longer stay fresh date?? UHHH
I’m about to give up on this brand between this and what Aimee is pointing out .

[aimee]

Hi CFC

Right now, since I know how many months out the expiration date is from production date, I use that to guide purchase. At the time when I looked into this, Purina gave me the code to their production stamp which was also on the label. As I recall it was a combination of letters and numbers and with it and I could tell what plant it was made in, what line in the plant it was produced on, and the exact date and time of production.

[aimee]

Hi Patricia,

If there is no notation near the “2019” I’d suspect the 2019 date on your bag is not related to date of manufacturer, but certainly, call for clarification.

It has been a while since I read the all research on growth and calcium requirements, so I do not recall the exact grams of calcium on a caloric basis used in the various research studies. For the sake of discussion and to illustrate the underlying principle I’m ballparking the following numbers.

On a caloric basis, during growth, large breed puppies do require a higher calcium level than small breed puppies. So, for example, small breeds grew normally when consuming say 1 gram of Ca/1000 kcals but feeding 1 gram Ca/1000 kcals to a growing large breed leads to skeletal problems. Large breeds needed a min. of 2 grams Ca/1000 kcals to grow normally.

At the other end of the spectrum, small breeds also grew normally when consuming say 8 grams of Ca /1000 kcals while 8 grams Ca /1000 kcals resulted in growth abnormalities in large breeds. So overall, small breeds grew normally when calcium levels were between 1-8 grams Ca /1000 kcals, whereas large breed puppies required a narrower range, say between 2-4.5 grams Ca/1000 kcals to grow normally.

AAFCO set the min. Ca for their profile for growth and reproduction at 3 grams Ca/1000 kcals, a level found to result in normal skeletal growth in BOTH small and large breeds. Then they stipulated a maximum of 4.5 grams Ca/1000 kcals for large breed growth.

A diet label for growth, without an exception for large breeds, must contain between 3 and 4.5 grams of Ca/1000kcals to meet AAFCO’s growth/reproduction profile. If a diet has a min. of 3 grams Ca/1000kcals but the Ca level exceeds 4.5 grams Ca/1000 kcals the company must label the food as appropriate for growth EXCEPT for large breeds which is what is found on Stella and Chewy’s non puppy kibble diets

The statement “(calcium and DHA levels aren’t enough for large breed puppies in non-puppy formulas)” makes no sense in light of the AAFCO nutritional profile that the company claims the diets are formulated to meet.

[Patricia A]

HI CFC,
That was very helpful. Stella and Chewy’s wanted pic of Lot# and Best Buy date . They will get get back to me. Just sent.

[Patricia A]

Hi Aimee,
As I wrote to CFC. They emailed back requesting photo so just sent. I did notice on extreme bottom corner under the Stella & Chewy’s 2019 Manufactured by Stella & chewy’s and address there is black printed # 22051. So going back to email cause I don’t believe I got that in photo.
So first off am I correct in fact that the calcium/DMA for large breed puppies require LESS so All life stages is NOT appropriate to feed actually in ANY brand . Large breeds would be large breed puppy specific . Then by their own statements contradicts when advising that their their non puppy all life stage formulas would not contain ENOUGH levels Calcium/DMA.
So it should be a statement advising of the opposite actually? I don’t understand all the calculations Aimee. But their statement leads me to believe that my “adult” dogs are not getting ENOUGH calcium/DMA from their formula for All Life Stages. Since statement should of read “TOO MUCH calcium/DMA for growth of large breed puppies”.
I know nothing about large breed puppies but read that it’s incorrect to think they need MORE calcium/DMA for growth for many reasons listed.
So is their formula meeting requirements for calcium/dma for all life stages besides large breed? How are other brands different in these levels?
When I call I want to know what I”m talking about. lol

[Patricia A]

So they just emailed me with Hi Patricia,

The information on this bag shows that it was manufactured in November 2022, and does not expire until May 2024. This is still very new product.

Thank you,
I asked if it was the lot# that tells them when food was manufactured. They could of explained.

[aimee]

Hi Patricia,

AAFCO only makes 2 nutrient profiles: 1.an adult maintenance profile and 2. a growth/ reproduction profile. Every single diet formulated to meet the growth/reproduction prolife is an “all life stages diet” The manufactures may choose to market a diet that meets the growth/reproduction profile as an adult food, a puppy food, an all life stages food, a food for pregnant and nursing dogs, or even a senior food. Whereas a diet formulated to the AAFCO maintenance profile can be only be marketed as an adult diet or a senior diet

BUT and it is a big BUT if the “all life stages/puppy growth/reproduction diet” has more than 4.5 grams Ca/1000kcals it must be labeled that it is not appropriate for growth of large breed puppies because while small and medium breed puppies and adult dogs can tolerate large amounts of calcium in their foods, large breed puppies can not .

So in the case of Stella and Chewy’s kibbles, most do not say “puppy” on the front panel but since the company apparently formulates them to meet the AAFCO growth/reproduction table they are essentially all puppy/all life stages foods, BUT they apparently are puppy/all life stages foods that exceed AAFCO maximum for Ca for large breed puppies, so S and C has to disclose this by saying in their nutritional adequacy statements that large breed puppies are excluded.

My concern with their statement in the FAQ is that they are saying there is not enough Ca for large breed puppies in their diets that are not specifically marketed as puppy foods, when in fact, the only reason those diets could be ok for small and medium breed puppies, but not large breed puppies, would be if they had too much Ca in them for a large breed pup.

The maintenance profile for dogs requires a min of 1.25 grams Ca/1000kcals and the growth/reproduction profile, which is what is also called all life stages, requires a min of 3 grams of Ca/1000kcals Therefore every all life stage diet has over twice the min amount of Ca needed for an adult.

[Patricia A]

So I am understanding it right. Now I’m going to look at other brands websites under their formulas for “All Life Stages” and see only “Not for large breed puppies” is written or they put the “WHY” also.
So the company should state TOO MUCH calcium if they give the why.
But Stella’s went out of the way to put the “WHY” and the “WHY is the opposite .
Now in your calculations are dogs’ being fed their “all life stages”not getting ENOUGH calcium ? Or are levels correct for puppies small/medium and adults and someone screwed up in writing that and meant TOO much for the large breed puppies? Hope I’m making sense.

[aimee]

Hi Patricia,

You wrote “So the company should state TOO MUCH calcium if they give the why.” Yes If those diets are inappropriate for large breed growth it would be because they have too much Calcium for large breed puppies.

You wrote “Now in your calculations are dogs’ being fed their “all life stages” not getting ENOUGH calcium?”

I do not have a nutritional analysis for each of S and C’s diets that claims to be “all life stages” so I have not done any calculations. If the diets meet the AAFCO Ca min. for the growth/reproduction profile then their diets would have ENOUGH calcium for adult dogs, pregnant dogs, nursing dogs and the growth of small ,medium and large breed puppies. but some may have TOO MUCH calcium for the growth stage of large breed puppies, in which case the company must disclose this on their nutritional adequacy statement.

I have to qualify, because after getting a nutritional analysis I’ve found that though a diet claims to meet an AAFCO profile, based on the information the company sends, it appears not to meet it. For example, using the information provided by Smallbatch, it appears that one of their diets labeled as “all life stages” does not come close to meeting the min. calcium level required by the AAFCO profile for growth/reproduction. The company responded IMO very quickly to my initial inquiry for a nutritional analysis. But I have not received any response to my most recent inquiry asking them to explain the apparent discrepancy.

[Patricia A]

Hi Aimee,
I looked at bag I have for “All life stages” does disclose under their Nutrient profile the exception for feeding for growth of large breed 70lbs. or more. I did write to them regarding their statement under facts/questions on website of reasoning for not feeding but no reply.

I wrote to Small Batch, and although a very detailed quick response regarding safety and benefits of garlic added, albeit very far down on ingredient list, .I have a worry about feeding frequently in my rotation. I appreciate your inquiry and would love to hear their reply regarding nutritional analysis of their food. My three did well with their very small pucks broken up on top of kibble in their turkey protein/flavor. So wouldn’t be opposite to feeding at times. That is if discrepancy is cleared up by their reply.

Uhhh..so many brands and so many pet owners on so many forums with their reasoning of why one is crappy and one is superior. Just overwhelming . lol

• This reply was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by Patricia A.

[aimee]

Hi Patricia,

If Small batch ever addresses my concerns I’ll be sure to post it here. I suspect however that they will not; I have not gotten any type of reply to my last two inquiries.

[Ana W]

It must be added that so many preservatives are not good for our animals

[Arnold V]

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[tracy B]

Run 3 is a popular endless running game that offers a unique twist to the traditional endless runner genre.

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