[FIREMAN29]

Hello,

This is for anyone who can help me. I have a 2.5yo +/-95# male AmStaff. He is a great dog but has been plagued with digestive issues since he was a pup. We went all the way up the kibble food chain ultimately having to get him the most natural gain free, chicken free, high protein, high priced food on the market. And he still showed some opposition to eating it and would drink tons of water a day. On June 1st my wife and I finally got tired of all the issues and switched him to a raw diet. I read several books and web sites trying to gain all the knowledge I could. We transitioned him over 8 days essentially switch and 1/8 of his food out each day. He was more excited to eat and seemed happier after even a few days. He was pooping less, I mean this in terms of shear volume, his poop was firm and smelled less, and he seemed to stop straining when he pooped.

A couple days ago he woke us up around 3am and we had to rush him outside as he had a photo finish with totally watery stool. He had also felt a bit warmer to the touch leading up to that. I’m confident that the meat was not contaminated (given that we ate form the same batch), and we made sure to clean everything thoroughly throughout the transition and after. I went back to the trusty internet and books and couldn’t find anything relating at least within the area of what he’s experiencing. It was a lot of “WebMD” type of reading where he could just be having an upset stomach and it will pass or I may be killing him slowly in which case rush him to the vet immediately.

He still seems happy, and energetic, and hasn’t gotten as warm as frequently as he has since those two days ago.

Food Break Down: 13oz 85/15 Ground Beef or Lean Ground Turkey
3 oz Meaty Bone (usually a stripped turkey leg portion or cow bone of some sort, he doesn’t like chewing them so I have to break them up which is a pain.)
4 oz Organ Meat (only 2 oz if all we have is liver)
2-3 oz additonally of fruits and veggies

One meal a week we will give him fish.

Just looking to see if we even doing this the right way. I thinking that from what I read we put in too much fat but I can’t be sure. If anyone could shed some light on this I would be very grateful. We want the best for our guy and we know we can get this right just need some guidance.

[anonymous]

It is irresponsible for anyone other than a veterinarian that has examined your dog to give you veterinary advice.

Don’t waste time on the internet.

Please go to the nearest veterinarian asap, raw food (especially bones) is well known for causing gastrointestinal upset and bowel/colon obstructions.
An x-ray is the only way to rule out.

Sorry that you had to find out this way, best of luck.
Give us an update.

[FIREMAN29]

I’m not looking for veterinary advice per say, as you state I can call them up at any point and get advice from them. I’m looking to make sure what and how much I’m feeding him jives. All the food is was ground up through a grinder and thoroughly mixed together. He hasn’t vomited at all, and is still defecating on a normal schedule with the exception of the one incident. He is still energetic, has a normal appetite, is not displaying any muscular weaknesses, bloating, and has been drinking water normally. I don’t suspect a bowl obstruction at all, I appreciate the concern but spending hundreds of dollars based on a complete lack of symptoms isn’t responsible either.

I was under the impression this forum was pro-raw diets, and a place where I could seek some conventional wisdom. The websites I’ve gone to are all regarded very highly and I’d like to think that I can sniff out BS when I smell it, or read it in this case. If information doesn’t jive especially when held up to other professional literature then I don’t bother with it.

I’ll seek advice elsewhere…

[anonymous]

Ground up bone can cause gastrointestinal upset and bowel obstruction, sometimes partial, never-the-less
painful.

I am sure the pro raw folks will chime in.

I hope your dog is okay.

Best of luck. Sincerely

PS: The title of your thread implys that your dog has had diarrhea for 2 weeks!
That is what I responded to.

[Tyrionthebiscuit]

I’d look look into Lew Olson’s book on dog nutrition. She is very helpful with home feeding. Can you recall the exact meal you fed before the incident? My dog has issues when I leave too much skin in his mixture.

[FIREMAN29]

The last meal was the one I listed above. I have been thinking along the same lines as you, I did not take the skins off (honest mistake, I simply forgot) of the turkey legs before I ground them up, and the butcher only had pork organs. I’m betting that I just went a bit overboard with the fats and skins. Also, like an idiot I skipped the part on feeding one thing at a time to assess tolerance. We knew that he had no tolerance for high fat and he has an outright allergy to chicken and starches. He’s handled turkey neck, and the offal that I’ve given him the past during holiday just fine.

I’m leaning towards the pork organs and the turkey skins causing the upset.

Like I said, he’s got a full appetite and absolutely loves this food, in fact he saw me go over to the are where we used to keep his kibble around the same time he eats and I swear he was about to cry thinking I was gonna give him his old food. As soon as I got his new food out of the fridge he got super happy again.

[Tyrionthebiscuit]

I’d just monitor the normal things. Eating, drinking, playing, and weight. They do need some fat but the skins can throw some over the edge. If possible, I’d try buying unground meat and grinding it yourself.

[FIREMAN29]

Ok, thank you. See that wasn’t hard. We have and will continue to monitor him. I was thinking about getting unground lean beef but thats hard to find, turkey is easy to get and I will omit the skin this time. I’ll look into all that though, thank you again.

[Anne D]

Hi there! I’ve been through the same thing. I’ve been feeding raw for over 2yrs now & my 3 would never allow me to buy kibble again! HAHAHA
Nor would I want to, since it was the best decision I’ve made for their health.
I agree with the previous poster about the fat content. Small amounts are ok, but watch leaving the skin on since they really can’t chew it up. It’s basically a glob in the belly, which can cause upset.
Don’t worry about the bones, as long as you’re not cooking them, you’re doing everything right. Their digestive tract is set up for this.
The only thing I didn’t see suggested for you was canned pumpkin. I always keep that in. Just in case. Dogs get upset stomachs. Just like us. The pumpkin helps to bind them up. I also add slippery elm bark to the pumpkin. Clears them up really quick. Just make sure that you’re buying canned pumpkin, not pie filling.
I know you’re aware of transitioning proteins, just be sure not to keep them on 1 protein too long. Always rotate. Green Tripe is an excellent way to soothe his belly too. It just might make you incredibly nauseous! HAHAHA Bone broth is great too & if you don’t want to make it, honest kitchen sells a powdered version w turmeric. Nice to keep on hand.
So sorry I’m rambling on. I just hate when our best friends aren’t well & feeling at a loss as to what to do for them. I would post the same question in every raw feeding FB group I was in & was lucky to get a response the next day.
I hope your puppy is feeling better.

[Spy Car]

[Content in violation of our commenting policy has been removed by the moderator]

Back to your problems. There are a number of improvements you could (should) make.

More towards an 80/10/10 ratio (meat/organs/bone). Try to make as much of the meat portion “whole” meat rather than grinds. Beef heart and pork leg (or shoulder) tend to be procurable cheap cuts.

Fat is to be embraced as a great source of energy (the ultimate source of energy for dogs). Because a canine digestive system needs to re-adapt to fat metabolism after a dog eats a carbohydrate-rich diet, it is wise to limit fat initially (during the transition). And to then work up to full-fat meals. Fat is very beneficial for dogs and not something to avoid or to restrict, except during a “transition.”

“Lean” meat is not a positive in the long term. Dogs thrive on fat metabolism. Fat is essential.

Don’t grind the meat. Let the dog chew and tear whole pieces. Much better for dental health.

The number of organs in your typical meal is too high. Stick with 5% (of the total) as liver and 5% “other” secreting organs (such as kidney, melts/spleen, sweetbreads, etc). Together that’s 10% organs as the total.

The biggest problem is with the bone. Forget giving beef or turkey bones and instead turn to bone-in chicken or similar soft edible bone. You want bone sources that will be well chewed and digested and that minimize the risk of tooth damage and/or obstructions.

Beef bones and turkey bones are poor choices.

Eating soft edible bone will keep stools ideally firm. There is no reason to feed pumpkin if the edible bone content is kept in the proper target range. Chewing soft-edible bone will also keep teeth sparkling white. Do not grind the bone. Feed soft-edible bone that the dog can chew.

The USDA website has bone percentages for common chicken pieces that can help you when figuring the 80/10/10 ratios.

Good luck.

Bill

• This reply was modified 6 years, 5 months ago by Mike Sagman. Reason: Text removed by moderator

[FIREMAN29]

[Content in violation of our Commenting Policy has been removed by the moderator]

@Spy Car and @Anne D I just want to thank you for the help, you’ve been more then gracious enough to post your experiences (which accounts for then hill of snowflakes in this world, as some will find out). I’m happy to say that my guy is doing much better since we augmented his food as described above. The Olewo Carrots and Beets also seemed to help him out as well and he really likes them as well. I will say that we will need to find another bone source though, he is extremely sensitive to anything chicken related. I was considering lamb ribs as they are smaller and less dense, as well as, turkey necks what do you think.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 5 months ago by Mike Sagman.

[Mike Sagman]

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