[Regina D]

Standard Poodle, 5 years old, rescued 2 months ago. No info about digestion problems before we adopted. About 1 month ago, he started with explosive diarrhea x1 and terrible stomach grumbling. OK for about 1 wk, then diarrhea again for 2 days. Ok for 1 wk, then diarrhea – took to vet – Metronidazole x 7 days, probiotic caps for 10 days. (Some wretching, but no vomiting the entire time.) Chicken & rice x 4 days, then added canned food (Whole Earth Farms) back gradually. Yesterday back to all canned. No appetite & grumbling stomach again today. Suggestions?

[aquariangt]

Were there multiple foods during his sick time or just one? What were you feeding? Did you make a change very quickly from what he was eating?

[Regina D]

Before the sickness, no change. When we first got him, we fed Blue Wilderness that we had left from previous pet. (By the way, he eats no treats, no table food, gets nothing from outside). When the BW was almost gone, we saw here that Whole Earth Farms, by Merrick, was top rated. We also leave out at all times, dry Dr. Tim’s (recommended here). We decided to try that (introduced by weaning off BW till gone). He did fine on that (adult or chicken/turkey formulas) for a few weeks. A couple of weeks ago, I tried the beef stew formula. In retrospect, that may be the culprit. While he was sick, chick & rice, then gradually adding his regular canned. Was tolerating. Yesterday I mixed in about 1/3 can of beef stew with his other food, and this morning the “grumbling” started again (wretching and not eating, no vomiting, no diarrhea). Today the pet food store people sold me Natural Choice chicken,rice,oatmeal (he doesn’t seem to be allergic to grains) and Canadae chicken/rice to try. I don’t like the ratings on these, but thought the chicken/rice formulas may be helpful till he gets better. I am not mixing, just trying the NC first. Someone said to try dry food only, or dry mixed with 1/2 can. Can be so confusing!! Everyone has a different opinion. And vets always want to use a prescription food – I don’t want to go that route if I don’t have to.

[aquariangt]

I’ve never used WEF myself, and while there are no majors jumping out at me on the beef stew recipe, there are people that have issues with that brand/merrick.

Maybe try adding something a bit less rich than beef stew for your canned for a few days to try it out. What other brands are available at your store? Or, what store do you shop at? I don’t particularly like Nutro or Canidae, but that’s just my opinion.

[Regina D]

I usually order from Chewy; however, while trying smaller amounts than 1 case, I shop at small, privately owned local business.

[InkedMarie]

I’ve read that dogs with sensitive stomachs do well on Nutri Source.

[DogFoodie]

OK, so if I’m understanding you correctly, you were feeding Blue Buffalo canned food and when you finished that, you began using Whole Earth Farms canned food. The Blue Buffalo food was chicken based and the Whole Earth Farms was beef based. The vomiting and diarrhea started after you introduced the Whole Earth Farms wet food and when removed, the vomiting and diarrhea stopped.

In addition to the canned food, you also free feed Dr. Tim’s.

And now, you’ve purchased Nutro Natural Choice Chicken, Rice and Oatmeal and Canidae Chicken and Rice to replace, I believe, the beef based wet food you were feeding. Are the Nutro and Canidae foods also wet foods or dry foods?

It does sound as though some ingredient in the beef based wet food was the culprit. Also, I would not free feed. Over eating is probably the leading cause of loose stools. Not to mention, the fats can quickly go rancid when exposed to air, especially if you’re in a hot / humid climate.

Are you looking for suggestions to replace the wet food?

[Regina D]

Thank you to all who have helped. This is what I think I will do, once I finish a couple of days of chicken & rice, I will start to add in Dr. Tim’s dry a little at a time. If that works, I would like to use dry, with canned on top as a regular feeding. I will not leave dry out anymore. I will try to use only chicken Whole Earth Farms for the canned. Dr. Tim’s dry seems to have some good ingredients for digestion, and Alf seems to like the taste. I have never tried dry & canned mixture. It sounds like a lot of people do. One person said it is not good to feed both, as dry & canned are digested in different ways in dogs, which can cause problems. Some say dry alone doesn’t have all a dog needs, others say that about canned! Still very confusing. I just want my poor baby to stop feeling sick!

[aquariangt]

That comment about doing both is odd. I feed a topper on every meal-either canned or dehydrated. I agree with Betsy now that she laid it out, something in that WEF canned was causing the problem, so avoid that and see if the problem goes away.

[Regina D]

Thank you very much. You have confirmed my conclusion. I will let you know how it goes in a week or two. I thought the dry/wet digestion statement was a little quirky myself, but I am at a loss, desperate for a solution.

[Susan]

Hi, sound like he gets irritable bowel, my rescue boy gets the rumbles, its gases going thru their bowel very uncomfortable, when I first got my Patch, he was having the grumbles & rumbles every 10 days, I think he couldnt handle high beef proteins, one vet said Colitis with the rumbling bowel plus he’d sometimes poo light red blood which suggest the small bowel, now a new vet has said that he has Irritable Bowel & wanted to put Patch on Prednisone, I said NO as they havent done a biopsy to comfirm the IBD, He was put on the Eukanuba Intestinal vet diet last August. Ive kept him on the Intestinal, the diarrhea stopped so did the rumbling bowel, Ive so slowly been tryng new kibbles, Ive tried the Holistic Select Senior Chicken Meal & Rice but I only mixed with his Eukanuba Intestinal which was good with no rumbles or diarrhea, this week Ive bought the Wellness Simple Limited Ingredients Duck & Oatmeal as Ive read that oatmeal sooths the stomach/bowel & the Simple has less ingredients & is suppost to be for stomach problems… Wellpet state that their Simple range is formulated like vet prescription diet foods without the corn, wheat, eggs, dairy & by-products etc… I too hate the vet diet formulas but maybe start with one just to get ur boys stomach/bowel better & rested like I did with Patch, Patch was on the Eukanuba Intestinal for 5months no treats no extra foods, then this year Ive started playing with different foods but when anything goes wrong, I go straight back to his Eukanuba Intestinal & start again so slowly…maybe give the Wellness Simple a try , the Duck & oatmeal only gets 3 starts on this site I think, BUT thats cause it has a low protein, the other Simple kibbles gets 4 stars & in the end if ur dog stops his rumblins & diarrhea who cares about stars http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/dog-wellness.aspx scroll down to the bottom & u’ll see Simple limited ingredients…also Patch is on a good probiotic for his tummy…Good-Luck

[DogFoodie]

It’s definitely fine to use wet food as a topper for kibble. Kibble alone is very highly processed. I also think Dr. Tim’s is a great product and if you ever have occasion to need to speak to Dr. Tim, he is a wonderful, kind and very helpful man. He’s a pretty funny guy, too.

There are lots of great people foods you can use to top your dogs foods with. Whole fresh foods are great for dogs! Lean fresh meats, fresh cage free eggs or pureed fruits and dark leafy greens are wonderful. And, I can guarantee that Dr. Tim would also recommend this one, a sardine two or three times per week.

In the meantime, pureed canned pumpkin (NOT pie filling) is a great way to add fiber to your dog’s diet and will help to firm up loose stool. I always have a couple of cans on hand. It helps to regulate intestinal water and can be used to help both loose stool and constipation.

That said, I’m concerned about the WEF wet beef product being a problem for your dog. There have been a number of people having problems with the dry WEF beef food. Merrick has gone so far as to admit there was a problem, but has failed to respond and continues to sell it. You’re the first person I seem to recall identifying specifically that the WEF beef CANNED products caused a problem for your dog. Did you notice any unusual odors with the WEF wet food? In fact, I think it wouldn’t be out of line for you to contact Merrick AND report a problem with the food to the FDA. Do you still have any of the food labels or the food itself? Here’s a link to make a report with the FDA: http://www.fda.gov/animalveterinary/safetyhealth/reportaproblem/ucm182403.htm

[Cyndi]

OMG!!! Your dog’s name is Alf? That is friggin’ adorable!! I LOVED Alf!! Lol!

[DogFoodie]

LOL Cyndi!!

[Regina D]

Alf is an apricot standard poodle! Sweet boy!

[Regina D]

Don’t feel like I have narrowed the problem down to WEF beef yet. If I do, I will follow up to prevent others from being effected.

[Regina D]

Sue66 – Thanks for sharing. Lots of good info since you have been down the same road with Patch. I hope he is doing better.

[Regina D]

Betsy: If I want to use sardines as topping for dry, are you talking about canned sardines? How about canned salmon or tuna?

[crazy4cats]

Hi Regina-
I give my two dogs sardines once a week. They each get one tin with their kibble. I feed about a fourth of a cup less dry when adding the fish. They love it. They weigh about 80 lbs each. In my opinion, you can give canned tuna or salmon also. I’d be careful with too much tuna due to possible high mercury levels. Just remember to reduce the kibble to prevent over feeding. Good luck. I think you are in good hands on this site!

[DogFoodie]

I would second C4C’s recommendations.

I would add that you should choose sardines in water with no salt added; and not those that are packed in tomato sauce, olive oil, etc. Canned salmon would be OK, but I still prefer sardines. Tuna isn’t recommended because of the mercury issue, but I have to say, I eat a can of tuna for my lunch almost every day and I’m not dead yet. I probably shouldn’t eat that much tuna though. I need to spend a few extra bucks and buy the Wild Planet mercury free tuna when I’m at Costco…. I digress. Sardines have significantly less threat of mercury than tuna. Oh, and never give your dog raw salmon. Raw salmon can contain parasites that can prove deadly, but are eliminated by cooking. You can also feed Pacific oysters.

[Linda H]

I got a rescue dog and brought him to the Vet immediately. She wormed him and vaccinated him. He had diarrhea, over the next several weeks. I brought a stool sample and asked it to be tested. It is not the normal protocol – and my vet is very good and thorough. The stool sample was positive for coccydia. This is an organism – not a worm. It needs a specific drug to kill it. We gave him the med, and then re-tested his stool – and he is clear of it. Many rescue dogs, especially from rural areas and farm areas get this organism – it caused diarrhea and can be deadly in some cases. I hope you get this test done ASAP.

[Regina D]

Thank you. This is most helpful information. Alf came vaccinated and “wormed”. In fact, we administered the 2nd & 3rd doses. I will collect a stool sample as soon as possible and have it tested for coccydia. Right now Alf has been fine for almost a week. I took him off all dog food and am adding back 1 at a time, a week at a time, to determine which one is the culprit. I am still on the first food. Regardless, I will definitely get the test done. Again, thank you so much for the information.

[crazy4cats]

Yes, a very good idea. My pups have had both coccidia and giardia. I changed food several times thinking that was the issue and it wasn’t. These parasites aren’t killed with the regular dewormers. They need special meds. Definitely bring in a stool sample to rule these out. Giardia sometimes has intermittent symptoms. Good luck!

[Regina D]

Thanks. I took a stool sample to vet this AM. Alf was treated about 10 days ago with Metronizadole for giardia. Today I asked them to check for worms & parasites, including coccydia.
I had just finished another 2 days with chicken & rice and started adding dry food back (Dr. Tim’s) yesterday. This morning Alf had the rumbling stomach again and won’t eat. We gave him a Pepto Bismal (per vet advice) and took the sample to the vet. The saga continues…
Everyone has been so helpful.

[crazy4cats]

Regina-
So did your pups have Giardia? Or was the Metronidazole just to treat the diarrhea? If they did have it, did you get another test to make sure that it was gone. My dogs took several treatments to get rid of it. Metronidazole is not very effective. I’ve read in several articles where it is only about 60 percent effective. Did you also give panacur or Drontal Plus at all? If you find out they still have it,please write back because I had to use a lot of holistic type remedies to rid them of it. I’d be glad to help you out. It can be very frustrating. Coccidia is much easier to clear. Good luck!

[Regina D]

No Guardia diagnosed, just treating the symptoms in case that was what it was. No panacur or Drontal plus yet. Will see what stool shows today. Vet is leaning towards Irritable Bowel. I feel that might be just a catch all when they don’t know what it is. (Sorry vets out there-I was a nurse practitioner and know how frustrating diagnosis can be). I will appreciate your input on holistic. Waiting on results for now. Alf still won’t take anything by mouth, not even a small piece of boiled chicken from my hand. No diarrhea today – just rumbling, anorexia, lethargy.

[crazy4cats]

Oh, poor baby! How frustrating. There is a ton of great info on irritable bowel and inflammatory bowel on dogaware.com. Check out thei digestive disorders thread. My dogs never lost appetite when battling Giardia or Coccidia. Also never noticed any rumbling. So maybe something different is going on. But, I believe all the antibiotics and dewormers I used gave them a leaky and/or irritable gut. I used several of the supplements suggested on the above mentioned site to repair it and they are doing much better. Check out the website and I hope your get can come up with an answer from the test. Best wishes.

[Regina D]

Crazy4cats: Thanks for recommending the dogaware.com website. I have been there reading all evening. Very informative. I am leaning towards food “intolerance” (as opposed to “allergy”). However, I never received a call from my vet regarding the stool sample I left there today. I am going to call first thing in the morning. I sure hope she checked the sample while it was fresh. It upsets me that she didn’t call me.

[Regina D]

Crazy4cats: So, if Alf is intolerant, I am considering switching to a limited ingredient canned food, perhaps with lamb and brown rice. Not sure which brand. Natural Balance and Nature’s Choice both have possibilities, but NC is rated quite low on this site. At least NB is 3 1/2*. I know in my mind that stars aren’t that important when looking for a treatment, but in my heart they make me feel like I am feeding my dog an inferior food if it is not 4* or above! lol.

[DogFoodie]

Hey Regina,

Just a thought, how does the fiber content of the foods you’ve feed look? Do you see any patterns there?

Have you thought about adding some ACV to his food in the event that it’s an avid related problem? That might help.

[Regina D]

Betsy: What is “ACV” and What is “avid”?

Got results back on stool specimen – negative. I will check with my regular vet early next week (there is a sub vet on Th,Fr,Sat) to see what was tested & where to go from here.

I am currently treating it as food intolerance. (He has no skin problems, so I don’t think it is a food allergy). He has had 2 meals of Home-cooked chicken & rice with a chicken & rice only canned food (Canidae). So far, so good, He didn’t do well on Dr. Tim’s dry.
If that doesn’t work, I will try an “unusual” protein, like lamb & rice or duck & rice.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Regina-
Bummer! That doesn’t help any, does it? Yes, make sure you ask exactly what they tested for because they do have different tests for different issues. Did they send it out to a lab? ACV stands for apple cider vinegar. If you buy it, make sure to get the unfiltered kind. It contains the “mother” and is kind of cloudy. It is extremely strong, so make sure you dilute and start with a small amount. I don’t use it regularly, but I guess others do. I also see it listed in some ingredients. It is in the raw nuggets that I occasionally feed. As for avid, I don’t know what that is either. Good luck with your elimination diet.

[DogFoodie]

Avid means acid. That’s auto correct taking liberties. : )

Another thought might be to add probiotics and digestive enzymes. I have a dog with food intolerance issues and I’ve finally found a digestive enzyme that made an amazing difference for him. I’ve been using Swanson’s BioCore twice daily with each meal and Soil Based Organisms once daily in the morning. My pup’s stool quality improved, his ear cleared up and I suddenly have one food he can eat without any reaction. Coincidence, maybe. But after, a lot of foods (seriously, a lot) in his short two years of life, whatever caused the improvement is very welcome. He’s now eating Nature’s Variety Instinct LID Duck. I give the food two big thumbs up!!

Diluted ACV, when offered with a meal, stimulates production of hydrchloric acid, which aids digestion.

[Author]

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