[InkedMarie]

Back in February, I think, we decided to get Hare Today grinds instead of Darwin’s. Originally, I thought it was cheaper. It turns out that Gemma needs far more boneLESS than bony & boneless costs more. It’s making it much more expensive.

That brings me to Darwins. Is there less bone in Darwin’s than Hare? My husband sometimes has to feed the dogs and he finds Hare to be a pain in the butt. I think Darwin’s would be an easier product to use. Gemma did get stopped up once on Darwin’s but we really don’t know what caused it. Steve is fine with Darwin’s, I don’t know if I’d have to use boneless with it or not. As you guys said awhile back, she’s probably not getting complete balance. Darwin’s would be far easier than doing it myself. Will it cost more? Yep but that’s ok.

I’m open to other suggestions.

[theBCnut]

I would expect Darwin’s to be 10% bone of the animal portion, however they add other stuff so I would expect them to be slightly lower in bone.

[InkedMarie]

So, that may be a good thing if she doesn’t need much bone?

[theBCnut]

I don’t know that it would be enough of a difference to help her though.

[InkedMarie]

HDM: an opinion from you? Think Gemma would be better off on Darwin’s with boneless if she needs it?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marie –

If you aren’t balancing the Hare Today grinds out with the appropriate supplements and nutrient-dense whole foods, then I think Darwin’s would be the better option. If you’re adding the appropriate vegetables, whole food supplements, efas etc. to the Hare Today grinds, then I think the Hare Today grinds would be the better option. I think that both the Hare Today grinds and the Darwin’s formulas likely have similar bone content (probably ~10%). Darwin’s would definitely be more convenient if you didn’t want to put the work into balancing the Hare Today grinds.

[InkedMarie]

I really don’t want to be bothered balancing. I admit to being lazy. Steve prefers the Darwin’s and he pays for most of it. She still mostly poops every other day. Some weeks, she’ll go two days in a row. I’m ok with this, I just don’t want her stopped up. Do you think adding some boneLess to Darwin’s would be best, because of her non pooping issues?

I love this little gal, so glad she’s here but boy, some things aren’t easy! Off and on, we’ve had trouble with her crying at night,usually between 3-5 am. Moved her crate from our room to spare room; no change. She now sleeps loose in our room but the same thing. She has bad knees & her hips aren’t great either, been on the Swansons joint support and two Chinese herbs. We aren’t noticing any change so when she goes for her Re-check on Tuesday, I’m going to get a script for something. I don’t know if she’s crying due to pain, dementia or something else.

[Hound Dog Mom]

You could try adding up to 4 oz. boneless meat for every 16 oz. Darwin’s you feed. If this doesn’t change things, I would just accept that pooping every other day is normal for her. I really hope you figure out what’s going on and start seeing some improvement!

[mydogisme]

I love to read this sight! Where else could you learn so much about dog poop! We are for sure dog lovers to be concerned how often our pets poop! I just thought of something about Cyndi’s dog. She mentioned her dog stays out side some to play… you don’t think he could be ..ah.. eating some of (it) and that’s why he is getting sick? I caught Dixie in my sons cat litter box one time, not my sons litter box but his cats litter box, and she was crunching on something. I had to go brush her teeth! yuck

[InkedMarie]

HDM: Marie + math=stupidity LOL. Right now, she gets about 1.2oz boneIN; I then add her herring or tripe, depending what day it is, to the bowl then add the rest in boneLESS to equal 3.3oz total.
This is per meal, we feed twice daily. When we fed much more boneIN, thats when she was going three days, or more, without pooping so it appears she needs more boneless than bone in.

[InkedMarie]

MyDogIsMe: how true that is (about the poop)!!!

[theBCnut]

I think that means of your 3.3oz final weight, 0.66oz could be boneless meat. That is 20%.

[mydogisme]

Marie, Have you tried using a electric blanket and putting it on low and the ground and put a soft towel down over it so she could feel the warmth? I have one made just for dogs. It only stays on though for 30 minutes and is waterproof. Its really soft out side, it just wont hurt her if she should get it wet, maybe the heat would help her at night. just a thought

[InkedMarie]

My dog: no, I hadn’t thought about that. I Re-read an article about canine cognitive dysfunction; some of the symptoms fit Gemma to a “T”.

Thanks patty, it would take me forever to figure out.

[InkedMarie]

Wait, patty, right now she gets about 2.2 oz of boneless. If I gave her 0.66 oz of boneless, she’d be constipated! I assume she would because she’d be getting way more bony. Am I thinking of this wrong?

[theBCnut]

Your tripe has balanced calcium so while it is boneless it still has the calcium and your herring has bones too. Or am I confused, which we all know is a regular and constant state for me anyway.

[InkedMarie]

Now I’m joining you on the confused state. Tripe is one Tablespoon 3 times weekly, herring is same amount twice weekly

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marie –

Is the tripe and herring your “boneless”? Or is that in addition to the Darwin’s and “boneless”?

[InkedMarie]

No, HDM, the boneless is beef, chicken and turkey. The tipe and herring are the small amounts a few times a week. Bone IN is beef, chicken, duck and turkey

[theBCnut]

OHHHH. Your post where you list what you feed her didn’t have an amount on the tripe and herring. So once again my algebra teacher, Mr Davis, from back in highschool, is proven right. When you ASSUME, you make an ASS out of U and ME. Sorry. I’ll just be quiet now…

[Hound Dog Mom]

Okay so if you’re feeding 3.3 oz. total and 2.2 oz. of that is boneless and 1.1 oz. is Darwin’s that would mean 2/3 of her diet is unbalanced – factoring the tripe and herring (without doing the exact math) that means probably about 3/4 of her diet is unbalanced. If you wanted to keep the balance you would have to keep the un-balanced extras (the boneless meat, tripe, herring) to 20% or less of the meal which would be, as Patty calculated, 0.66 oz. of extras per day. If you find that the increased amount of boneless is the only thing that makes her pass stools, you could continue with what you’re doing however I’d recommend adding a multi (it would be the simplest thing to do to ensure balance). I’d give one at about 1/4 of the recommended human-dose of one that would provide about 100 mg. calcium for that dosage. It’s just with 75% of the diet being un-balanced foods I’d be concerned about her getting adequate levels of vitamins and minerals.

[InkedMarie]

“Tripe is one Tablespoon 3 times weekly, herring is same amount twice weekly”

sorry Patty, I posted the above after that. I should have said it all at the same time. So, this is what she gets:

1.2oz boneIN
If it’s a day where she gets tripe, it’s one Tablespoon 3x weekly
if it’s a day where she gets herring, it’s one Tablespoon 2x weekly
I then add boneLESS to equal about 3.2 or 3.3oz

her proteins are beef, chicken, turkey and duck. She ends up with ALOT of boneLESS beef because I’m a dumbbutt and ordered too much once.

[InkedMarie]

” If you find that the increased amount of boneless is the only thing that makes her pass stools, you could continue with what you’re doing however I’d recommend adding a multi (it would be the simplest thing to do to ensure balance). I’d give one at about 1/4 of the recommended human-dose of one that would provide about 100 mg. calcium for that dosage. It’s just with 75% of the diet being un-balanced foods I’d be concerned about her getting adequate levels of vitamins and minerals.” from HDM

I know it is here, somewhere, on some thread but can you or anyone else tell me what a recommended multi is? Not a chewable unless I can crush it up.

I believe we will be going back to Darwins when I’ve exhausted most of what I have for boneIN.
My head is spinning with information however and I am confused as to what I do for a mix (of Darwins and boneLESS). Are you saying that if I use Darwins as my boneIN, I can add the boneLESs as I have been and just add the multi?

What if I want to do a mix of foods, with raw, canned and dehydrated? Do I still need the multi? This won’t come for awhile, need to exhaust most of my Hare.

Sorry if I;m being dense.

[Hound Dog Mom]

If you go back to the Darwin’s you could continue to add boneless if it helps her stools and keep the multi. Mixing foods (canned, dehdyrated, raw, etc.) is fine but the same rule would apply – if more than 20% total is unbalanced I’d recommend a multi. I’m sure there are a lot of good multi options on Swanson’s. I would look for a multi that supplies 30% – 50% DV calcium (for people) and give her 1/4 the human dose (this would provide roughly enough calcium to balance out the phosphorus in the boneless and shouldn’t stop her up like bone would). If you go with a multi without calcium give her a calcium supplement that provides about 100 mg. per day (if you continue to add that amount of boneless). You’re not being dense, it just gets kind of confusing! It took me awhile to figure all this stuff out too.

[InkedMarie]

HDM: hope you read this today since Swansons is having a free shipping today….if I get Gemma a dog multi with calcium, is 200mg daily of calcium enough? looking at this:

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/pet-naturals-daily-best-dogs-45-chews

[theBCnut]

Marie,

That’s a good one for now. It looks like it has the right amount of calcium for her.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 10 months ago by theBCnut.

[InkedMarie]

Decided against that one Patty, simply because she’d need two and only 45 in the bag. I found another one that hopefully is good. Been a long day, I screwed up my neck, my head is spinning and I’m just going to order it and hope! thanks for the help, both of you!

[theBCnut]

I keep a heating pad by my bed…

[Hound Dog Mom]

Something like this would be fine – 1/2 tab. per day would have just about the perfect amount of calcium and they’re pretty cheap (a 200 ct. jar so it’d last the year for her):

swansonvitamins.com/twinlab-dualtabs-200-tabs

[InkedMarie]

thanks HDM, I saved that link, will order that next time.

Kind of pissed off. I ordered two things from Swanson last night, got free shipping. Got an email this morning and free shipping AND 10% off. I replied asking if I could cancel the order and re-do it to get free shipping. If they don’t respond, I’ll call them.

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