[spaniel39]

Hi, HDM et all!
So, Based upon the excellent reviews (DFA 5 stars)
for Canine Caviar’s Large Breed Lamb Puppy Dinner
and of course the lower calcium/phosphorous levels required 1.3/1.00 approximately,
I just ordered and received a few bags. HDM put together a great list on those levels
under https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFY183Q0NVRXlidWc/edit?pli=1
Imagine my suprise and shock after I fed her, casually looking at the nutritional label on the back
and OMG!!!!! &*&@^&@!!!
Calcium 2.3 and phosphorous 2.0
So I just called the company and (according to them), those bags are misprinted and new bags
are coming out. HUH??? Isn’t there some law regarding mislabeling or maye just for “human” food
The customer service agent was nice but not exactly apologetic. She assured me that the product
in the bag was correct/again, just the labeling was wrong and “they’re using up all the old misprinted
bags” Ummm, ok? HUH?
A holistic quality company not recalling the product.
I don’t think any of this is right. On my end, pending their replay, will send an email,
will write the Sun times and Tribune in Chicago
If anyone else is perplexed and/or upset as I am, feel free to contact/use your sources , as well
I’m NOT telling Sophie!

[pugmomsandy]

If they have recently reformulated the recipe, they have 6 months to use up the old bags and put new product in them. Did you ask if they’ve recently changed the formula?

[spaniel39]

No, formula is exactly the same
they just mislabled the bags

[BlackAndTan]

It is the very rare dog owner who reads ingredients, much less nutritional breakdown. It is the even more rare dog owner who knows what any of it means, or is concerned.

I’m not surprised they feel no rush to change their bags. If pugmomsandy is correct, they are also under no obligation to do so. If anything, their labelling error could lose them customers, so they are doing this at THEIR own risk.

Going to news outlet seems a highly overblown reaction, and will unlikely be taken seriously. I would support that course of action if the food was toxic or the misprint was WILDLY misleading, but that is not the case here.

[spaniel39]

Thanks Black and Tan and you are correct in that most dog owners are not very knowledgable
about dog food
But among the Holistic and “natural” brands (which are much more expensive),
most really are and have to be for large breed dogs (Komondor, Great Dane, etc)
Calcium levels and Phosphorous levels HAVE to be around 1.0-1.3
or crippling results due to excessive early skeletal growth occurs.
These levels of calcium and phosphorous are not even suitable for an average or small size breed.
This IS a serious matter; in fact the editor if Dog Food Advisor just wrote and advised going to the
FDA (which I’m not going to do. Let the chips fall where they may)

Hi Michael,

Thanks for your message and for posting your experience on our website. It’s frustrating how these companies get away with this. You may wish to also write to the FDA.

You can report complaints about FDA-regulated pet food products by calling the FDA Consumer Complaint Coordinator in your area:

http://www.fda.gov/Safety/ReportaProblem/ConsumerComplaintCoordinators/default.htm

Hope this helps.

Mike Sagman, Editor
The Dog Food Advisor

[BlackAndTan]

Interesting. Thanks for the info!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi spaniel39 –

Thanks for the heads up. I’m currently updating my list of recommended GF foods and compiling a list of recommended grain-inclusive foods. I will email CC and ask them to verify the calcium levels in their puppy food. If they don’t respond the food will be removed from the list. I’ve tried to email them in the past and found them to have horrible customer service so I’m not expecting much.

[spaniel39]

Thank you and not being paranoid but I’m assuming it’s a mistake on the outside and not the
inside <g>;
that suddenly they somehow made a huge batch of 2.3 calcium/2.0 phosphorus dog
food by mistake. That would be disastrous

ALSO, I found another food I might try for variation that wasn’t on your list
◾Now Fresh Large Breed Puppy (5 stars)

[spaniel39]

I’ve tried to email them in the past and found them to have horrible customer service so I’m not expecting much.

well, we will see
feel free to write me at
Spaniel39
aol

[Hound Dog Mom]

I attempted to forward my concerns to Canine Caviar this morning via the online contact form on their website but every time I hit submit it read “Internal Service Error” (surprise). I’ll try to call them later and see if that gets me anywhere.

[BlackAndTan]

Aww, I am really liking Canine Caviar for my dog so I hope they clear this up and don’t screw themselves over. Just playing devil’s advocate: my understanding is they are a quite new, and very recently expanded, company.

[spaniel39]

Morning
I got the same internal service error but yet got an email from them that it was received.
In any case, I heard from someone this morning via email-dawn
HDM, perhaps you can call her. Here’s the email (and my reply)
Good morning dawn,
I did not receive any email(s) from you and not available today as traveling but
could call tomorrow.
I am also going to relay your number to a member of dogfoodadvisor.com
whom you can speak to
But basically, just want to be sure that the canine caviar large breed lamb puppy dinner is 1.3 calcium/1.0 phosphorous instead of the higher and dangerous levels
of 2.3 and 2.0 written on the bag

Thank you
Michael S Bosse
Chicago

In a message dated 7/10/2013 8:33:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes:

Good day Sir,

I have not heard back from you so I wanted to write again in case the email did not go through.
Once again, I have spoke with our support group and read your email.

May we have a conversation as there are several clarifying questions that I have?
I am eager to address your concerns.
Feel free to contact me or provide a number where I can call you.

We do appreciate your suggestion and willingness to help.

Sincerely,

Dawn Barraco
714 223 1800 office
970 576 8775 cell
[email protected]

also, HDM
my email is spaniel39
and I’m on AOL

[spaniel39]

Acutally, HDM, Black and tan and everyone/anyone concerned for their pup’s health and
companies who “may” mislead/mislabel
I would call the company for clarification as well.
I mean most of us believe what we read on packaging.
I did feed canine formula to my super sonic growing 4 month old Komondor,
but still was uncomfortable doing so.
What if the bags are correct and they made some batches with double the calcium and phosphorous?

[labgirl]

try emailing:
[email protected]

ive emailed before some questions and have received a reply within a few days on a few occasions. hope that helps.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Thanks for posting that email – I’ll try that as my last resort. I finally got the form on their website to work and sent my questions and I never received a response. I called their customer service three times today (during business hours – I checked the timezone) and no one answered and their voice mailbox was full. I’m not overly impressed to say the least.

[BlackAndTan]

Hi everyone,

I sent a question through the website about a week ago and got the same error message.
Today I got a very involved reply. Quite appreciated.
Here it is if anyone’s interested (on the topic of protein cycling)

Cheers

——— message below —-
I am glad your boy is doing well on Canine Caviar!
Protein rotation is beneficial, there really is not a wrong way to do
it. It does not have to be done daily, it can be monthly or quarterly.
I personally feed a different kibble protein source each time a new bag
is needed and rotate thru the cans the same way.
When mixing cans with the kibble, keep in mind our cans are pure protein
and should be used as a supplement only. A dogs system can typically
utilize up to 35% of their intake as protein. Anymore than that can
lead to health issues like pancreatitis. If you are feeding more than a
few spoons of Canine Caviar canned food at a time, you will need to
reduce the amount of kibble you are feeding by the same amount, 1/2 cup
can would mean 1/2 cup less kibble. If you want him to reduce his
weight a bit, you can also supplement with our Synergy mix. It is a
dehydrated vegetable mix that will add more volume to his meal without
the added protein and calories.
Please feel free to contact me with any additional questions.
Thank you,
Julie

Julie Campbell
Canine Caviar Pet Foods, Inc
4131 Tigris Way
Riverside, Ca 92503
Phone 714-223-1800
Fax 714-223-1801
email [email protected]
http://www.caninecaviar.com

[pugmomsandy]

Not sure why she says more than 35% protein could possibly lead to pancreatitis?

[spaniel39]

Hi, AL
well, I received a reply from Canine caviar AND
(I had sent the info to Petflow/wag/Mr Chewey)
from Mr Chewey, who had contacted the company and received a reply that they forwarded to me.

Follow me?
I got a reply from Canine Caviar
I got a different reply from Canine Caviar that was sent to dog food distributor Mr Chewy
who forwarded it to me.
Sound good?
NOT!
Two different explanations and I truly believe some sort of cover-up
Not a very bright one as they have admitted putting the large breed food, into bags
that have different mineral (calcium/phosphorous) levels posted.
This is not minor.
A large breed pup fed a calcium level of 2.3 and phosphorous of 2 definitely
will adversely affect the pups health and growth and definitely cause skeletal
agonizing deformities (as any vet).
That is why the large breed brands have calcium no more than 1-1.3% and phosphorous
around .95-1%. There is a medical/scientific reason for this.
Anyway, both Mr Chewey and Canine caviar offered to replace my bags
(although it’s been 2 days and haven’t heard back from Canine, which is really irritating)
I mean, they know/knew about this and did not tell any of their distributors, no one!
What does that tell you?

[InkedMarie]

It tells me there is no way I will use or recommend their products.

[spaniel39]

It really does bother me that they don’t seem to care
Oh, we have this formula and we put it in bags that list a different formula but
oh well?
Not even apologizing.
should really contact the FDA or who else?
Is Dog Food Journal still around
Dog food analysis

[labgirl]

try to email [email protected] , hes the only one ill email, and i get the best responses and quick. . i hope you get the answer your looking for out of him.

the chicken and millet formula of Canine caviar is fine for large breeds/giant breeds i believe, just as an alternative for anyones whos on the large breed bags and needs something labelled properly.

[Gemma60537]

I saw this the other day and wanted to wait to chime in…I have fed Canine Caviar for about two and a half years. I learned about it through my friend/breeder who is an acquaintance of the founder, which is Jeff Baker who was mentioned as a good source of info. We had three senior dogs very close in age who passed away as each one hit 13, so now with my 2 year old Lab and my 10 week old Lab puppy I am NEUROTIC about anything that hits their bodies. I believe strongly in my Canine Caviar.

They are a pretty small company, so they probably do not have vast numbers of customer service people to answer questions, but my friend/breeder who made me aware of this brand swears by it with all of her dogs…and she’s one of those breeders who LOVES her dogs and carefully does a litter once or twice a year. I don’t think there’s some awful cover up over at CC. I know they are extremely cautious with their product, so it seems way more likely to me to be a printer error versus an error in the recipe of the food.

Personally I feed the Chicken & Pearl Millet formula to my 10 week old pup just like I fed it to my 2 year old since it’s so similar to the large breed puppy formula. My breeder says she’s been feeding it to her pups for 10 years, before their large breed pup formula was available.

[InkedMarie]

Gemma, I’m glad you like the food but being a small company is no excuse. Others have either gone days before getting an email response, one person said she called numerous times and their mailbox is full. That is not acceptable. I don’t care how good a food is, if you can’t get anyone to return an email or phone call, that’s very poor customer service. If your dogs all of a sudden got sick on the food, you want an answer now, not later

[spaniel39]

Hi, All
well, I finally heard back and I’m mostly convinced it was a labeling error
(but still perplexed when they caught it, why they would keep using up the older packaging with
the misinformation?)
They are sending me replacement bags (new with the correct information)
for the Large Breed Puppy Lamb Dinner.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Gemma –

I agree with Marie. I’m the one who has emailed them numerous times with no response and called them several times only to get a full voice mailbox. This is unacceptable. Being a small company this is all the more reason they should have superior customer service. In my experience most small companies have better customer service than large companies. After this experience I would never use or recommend their products. BTW – after nearly a week of trying to get a hold of them I never did.

[InkedMarie]

Wow, still no response? I know you had this issue with Darwin’s (I think it was you anyway) but you’re the only person I know who has!

[Gemma60537]

And obviously a choice entirely up to you. I guess I’m more of the camp that I’d much rather stay on their product because of what goes into it than dump them for non-food related issues. But I have the advantage that I already feed them Canine Caviar so I can see the benefits of their products first hand every time I look at my dogs, versus just hearing word of mouth.

[InkedMarie]

Well, if you ever have a problem with the food & you can’t get a hold of customer service, you may sing a different tune. There are too many other quality foods with customer service that actually serve customers to choose from. Your choice. To some of us, this is very important. To you, it’s not and that’s ok. Your dogs.

[james w]

It already made this issue, even it is the same components and formula, labeling still matters and this brings enough reasons to discredit the manufacturer. If they have the accurate labels before, why this time it happens wrongly, so I am kinda thinking this is not only labeling issue, for sure something is also hiding within the formula.. A massive recall should be done, this is not how we believe with the company or not,, it is how they do proper business ethics. If they really concern about labeling and branding issue, why not they have those stuff done with reliable provider. Businesses and other product brand names always prioritize the accuracy of the labels printed with the content and formula, if the labeling is the problem, they need to find quality provider instead.. try at Amazon or see this, it pertains to quality branding company of eatmywords.com, currently trying it for my business and I am seeing initial positive result.

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