[Becca]

What did the Pet Care industry do to make its money before these neurotoxins, topicals and orals stuff ever came out what did they make their money on their are making so much money right now and everyone extremely fearful you are afraid not to treat your pet.
All this oversantized, pumping toxins out is what’s causing all this. People were much better off before this crap was invented

[anonymous]

Excerpt from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease
Lyme disease is the most common disease spread by ticks in the Northern Hemisphere.
It is estimated to affect 300,000 people a year in the United States and 65,000 people a year in Europe.
Infections are most common in the spring and early summer.
Lyme disease was diagnosed as a separate condition for the first time in 1975 in Old Lyme, Connecticut. It was originally mistaken for juvenile rheumatoid arthritis. The bacterium involved was first described in 1981 by Willy Burgdorfer

[anonymous]

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2015/08/veterinary-medicine-is-a-business-and-that-includes-alternative-medicine/ Excerpt below, click on link for full article.
Veterinary Medicine is a Business, and that Includes Alternative Medicine
Posted on August 23, 2015 by skeptvet
Bottom Line
The bottom line is that financial bias is a real issue in veterinary medicine at all levels, and it has to be investigated and managed. However, this is not the same as saying there is widespread fraud or a sinister conspiracy involving vets and companies that do business with them. There is no reason to believe that the majority of vets are doing anything other than the best they can to help their patients and clients. And there is absolutely no reason to believe vets offering alternative therapies are any less subject to financial bias or any purer in their motivation or behavior than vets practices science-based medicine.

[Jane L]

Very true. One article I read recently said a few years ago cancer was not even in the top ten causes of death in dogs and now it’s the number 1 cause with up to 3 in 5 dogs getting cancer.

Some talk as if there are no other options. It’s only been on the market three years, amazing how we survived up until then isn’t it 😫

[Becca]

Oh yes and I don’t live too far from Lyme and yes Lyme it was. there was three town that it originated from one of them was Branford one lyme and one other town in Connecticut it’s named after wyne because that is the first case discovered. the disease came from Plum Island just like now there’s two other very serious tick borne diseases in a 500-mile radius of Kansas which is where they move their Plum Island facility

[Becca]

Yes the rate of cancer in dogs the days is ridiculous!

[anonymous]

No one tested for cancer years ago, a lot of people never even took their dogs to a vet, so the dogs were never diagnosed.

[Jane L]

You must be joking. 20 years ago was not the dark ages and we went to the vet in the 60’s to 90’s and would know if a dog had cancer. Dogs also did not all have allergies then as so many do now.

Cancer is caused by the carcinogens in kibble, imported Chinese treats, over vaccination and toxic flea and tick products.

[Becca]

Thank you again Jane. You took the words right out of my mouth

[anonymous]

No, I’m not joking. Many people did not take their pets to the vet even 20, 30, 40 years ago.
No shots, no neutering, they just disappeared one day at around 5 or 6 years of age.
Just the way it was. They weren’t tested for allergies either, poor dogs just scratched themselves to death, they called it “mange”.
Heck, many of us never saw a doctor unless it was an emergency! LOL
Things are different nowadays, diagnosis and treatment options are available, thank goodness.

[Becca]

And a lot of dogs lived past their expectancy. You family dog was almost 17. My sisters dog had a life expectancy 10 to 12 lived to over 14. My husband dog lived past expectancy. And I could go on

[anonymous]

Exactly, so like I said, why can’t we all agree to disagree! Best of luck.

[davis h]

7

[davis h]

7
?

[davis h]

Bravecto or a tick?
My Labrador Service dog travelled the WORLD with me. He came within 24 hours of death…from Rocky Mountain Spotted fever from fever. A TICK bite! No matter how bad Bravecto Bravecto may or may not be it pales in comparrison to the almighty tick.
Pick your poison!

[Jane L]

If it prevented tick disease but it doesn’t. Hundreds of cases of tick diseases as dogs must be bitten.

[Jane L]

Totally wrong. They lived longer. Yes less vaccines which is good as after puppy shots they don’t need them from core diseases.

All dogs I ever had from 1950’s on lived 12/15 years. I knew many people with up to 18 dogs each back in the 1980’s and not one ever had allergies. And there is a massive difference between allergies and Demodex.

Now every day on my group dogs have allergies usually triggered by vaccines especially L4 but that’s another issue!

[Becca]

Both dogs I have now, the rescue vaccinated them to the hilt and both of them have severe allergies

[anonymous]

There is a genetic link regarding allergies, of course vaccines should be avoided with these dogs, but did the vaccines cause the allergies? Not likely, according to science based veterinary medicine.
If you want to blame someone, how about the puppy mills, breeders and back yard breeders that continue to breed dogs regardless of genetic defects.

[Becca]

According to my vet’s expertise and my knowledge my dogs allergies are direct link to the vaccines. Look at the ingredients check the effects.

[anonymous]

Been there, done that. My dog’s board certified veterinary dermatologist has provided me with information that differs from your conclusions
BTW: My dog is doing very well under his care.

PS: You can have the last word. I don’ t think this back and forth stuff is helpful to anyone.
Peace out.

[Cameron M]

Judy – you ask for the article which stated 44k dogs died due to spot treatment for fleas and ticks. I haven’t had a chance to complete my search to find it again but what I did find was a 2009 Scientific American article which has the below quote:

Most of the problems were minor, such as skin rashes, but about 600 dogs and cats died in the incidents reported in 2008, EPA records show.

So 600 dog and cats in 1 year…ok…my statement of 44k may be a low number huh?

Never use a spot treatment. Use oral it is far better.

I agree that in parts of the nation pet owners can get by with no treatment. I grew up in South Eastern PA and in my little corner of PA I never once saw a flea on my dogs…in fact I really didn’t ever see a flea until I moved to FL ( and so you know…we never sprayed for pests nor treated our dogs for fleas…heartworm yes…fleas no) Likewise in VT there are very few flea BUT there are lots of disease carrying ticks.

Bravecto does kill ticks quickly enough to stop transmission of disease ( per the studies). My dog seems fine on her 1st dose of Bravecto…the earth didn’t open up and swallow her but the fleas did die:)

Again..I caution all..I do not plan to give this drug to my gal year round..instead it is my go to for the bad months here in FL and ticks at our 2nd home in VT…thereafter she goes back on Sentinal and I even give that a break if she is up north when snow is on the ground.
Use your heads people…I can dig up stories of people dropping dead from drinking too much water to quickly. Don’t let the sky is falling folks scare you from reading good science and I encourage everyone to do just that. Research, research and then some more…check out the EPA sites…check out the FDA sites but do not listen to the misquoted gloomand doom posted here.

[Becca]

The Doom and Gloom would be watching your pet as he suffers dying from using bravecto I’m sure I’m not alone in making sure I never use this .

[Cameron M]

Doom and gloom is watching my pet die of tick born illness, or suffering from fleas or being in agony from topical poisons applied to the skin then ingested while licking.

Becca…cite facts not conjecture or unfounded opinion

[Susan W]

OMG Cameron will you stop with your sales tactics? You state you are educated, yet you call people 300 pound teenagers. You don’t know what the EMA reports are since you call them EMA studies. You quote 44,000 with no proof. You are comparing apples and oranges. 600 in one year from ALL spot ons. But almost 1,000 reported deaths from BRAVECTO alone since it came out just a few years ago. Can you just stop? How long is this going to go on? But the great thing is the more you keep this conversation going, the more people will be driven to the search and will see the numbers and the truth. The EMA has required a targeted safety review due to concerns over the seriousness of adverse events reported for Bravecto – not the topical. Sadly there is no independence in the targeted safety review. It is done by Merck who did the study for approval and has a great history with the truth with some human drugs. Over 36,000 members on the Facebook group called Does Bravecto Kill Dogs. Close to 10,000 members in the Netherlands. Oh, and did you see the news report done by Jim Strickland n in Atlanta? Merck issued a letter to the vets stating that none of the dogs in the report had necropsies – they declined them! Then Jim did a follow up report showing that Merck said this was not correct. Oh, something not true by Merck? They certainly did not disclose to the vets all the necropsies that have been done and how there is no one test that can prove causation. They also did not disclose all the settlement payments that have made with letters requiring non disclosure by the dog owners or that they were not responsible even though they paid. So keep rambling Cameron, you just help bring attention to the issue.

[Susan W]

I am done? Are you Cameron? You said you were what 10 posts ago?

[Becca]

My opinions are not unfounded all the information is out there. And as many others have given you the information.

[Cameron M]

Hello Susan and Judy,

After I said stop my in box kept filling with the most inane and illogical statemnets from both of you ( and others of your ilk).

it is painfully obvious that you do not have even the most basic concept of science nor statistics and frankly your type is dangerous. Other variations of this type of twisted thinking lead to oh no…don’t vaccinate a baby (human)…oooh no..don’t allow my child to have antibiotics.

Some how our national education system crashed and now we have these well meaning but seriously lacking folks pressing their home spun opinions and using simplistic internet knowledge as proof to back up their uneducated claims.

I’m not selling anything…hence my statement use sparingly or not at all if you can help it. You though are definitely selling your brand of outlook based on anti everything science. If left up to you we would be spraying strong black tea …waving at a full moon on the 31st of the month:)

My dog deserves better…it deserves health through loving science and common sense.

Unlike Susan spraying her dog do down with what amounts to roach spray…good job Susan!

[Becca]

Wow now babies are being brought into it all this you want to go on vaccines Let’s see we used to get 9 to 11 vaccines when we were growing up now there is 72 and I’m sure that you believe that it has no correlation with autism either.
This is just crazy. I don’t know what science your on, but I don’t want any.

[Cameron M]

Thar she blows folks…see? I know the anti science under current here…anti medical society anti everything couched in what they like to call common sense.

Sorry Becca…what you espouse is fringe…not science..not facts…not medicine.

Thank you!

[Susan W]

Way to go Cameron! I don’t use what you call with roach spray! Wrong person dear Cameron. But you continue to ignore facts due to the science of the studies put out by the manufacturer. Again, I am done? Are you, or do you need to come back with another incorrect statement?

[Becca]

Cameron everything you’ve been saying is only opinion

[Cameron M]

Susan,

You are correct…my apology. The roach spray gal was Judy going back and looking at all the off science observations had my head spinning.

I’m sorry to confuse you…you plainly are the conspiracy woman not to be confused with the spray the dog down with the equivalent of roach spray gal Judy. ( or the anti science gal Becca).

Got it now…won’t happen again:)

[Susan W]

No conspiracy theory here. Just providing facts on side effects reported, safety reviews require by the EMA. Information on seizure warnings on the topical not oral, news reports, settlement offers. Etc. all facts. Bye. Are you done or do you need to make another statement?

[Cameron M]

My statement is I agree…yes…it is good to get facts out. The facts helped me decide..yes I am leery …yes I am keeping a watchful eye on my gal..she is great so far. No I am not sold on long term Bravecto…at the same time I am not running for the hills based on conjecture.

My parting shot is reports aren’t facts…the facts will be decided in due time if any agency follows up. For now the reports are just that…reports with I may add have unknown weight or accuracy UNTIL we get the facts.

Until then I suggest caution…use your head but don’t lose it. Weigh risks vs benefits and realize that all medications have draw backs…use any medication sparingly.

Can we agree on this?

[pitlove]

Did someone on this thread actually say they would rather their dog be infested with fleas than use an insecticide flea and tick preventative? I’m sorry, but that is sick…Have you ever seen a dog infested with fleas, how sick they are? How dehydrated? How miserable they are? How the life is being sucked out of them by these parasites? Go volunteer in a shelter for a couple days before you say something SO ridiculous. Disgusting…

[Cameron M]

Lets get a bit silly…you know I love the Sears optical commercial where the woman calls here kitty kitty and a raccoon walks in her house.

Now a report is the next morning this woman wakes up to a raccoon in bed with her and tells the FDA my heavens …I fed my cat Purina Salmon last night and by god by this morning the food turned my cat into a raccoon.

You don’t think this type of nonsense type reports literally flood the FDA or EPA daily?? Think again…there are many nuts out there.

My point being yes…look at good reports …listen…read…and also let the agencies do their jobs and issue facts when called for.

In this case I say there are many good reports and some bad ( considering doses administered). It appears to work…likewise it is new and we do not have long term cancer studies yet.

one dose …likely ok…two …same…10 years worth…dunno yet. Seems promising though

[Susan W]

You just don’t stop. No one ever said every report is a direct result of Bravecto. But you have not written to the ema and read the reports. Lots of details and many and reactions that appear possibly and probably biased by Bravecfo per the NCA. By the exerts that evaluate them. Who then required a targeted safety study be conducted on Bravecto. No other flea and tick medicine.

[Cameron M]

Likewise to you.

Again…please cite this safety study…i don’t see it. Include links to the study please ..

For now the EU allows and states Bravecto is safe. Are you saying the EU ( or any other country says otherwise??)

Question: Is the EPA…FDA…EU or Australia saying Bravecto is unsafe…if yes we better have the info asap. Please post!!!

If not…

[Cameron M]

Yes they did! And I agree with you! My rescue cocker was covered with fleas…actually had a deformed tail and injuries from the constant itch. Pure hellish torture to her but gee …don’t tell the organic ones here. To them fleas are a mere note.

Yes disgusting and ignorant to boot!

[Marcia]

I couldn’t even get to the end of this thread before I commdnted. I have 4 dogs, all born in 2011. For flea and tick control, I at first used Frontline, but one of my pups started having horrible reactions for up to 12 hours after – I think she was itching or burning, or both. I tried Advantix. Omg so much worse. My other 3 even reacted. My vet recommended Bravecto, so I put them all on it and have noticed no issues. My babies are my heart and I am very attentive to their moods, eating habits, etc. I do not give Bravecto all year round – 2 to 3 doses a year. I live in WI so even though the vet says I should give it year round, I won’t because I want them to have a break from it and the winter months are less risky for fleas/ticks. Same with heartworm meds, I stop in late fall. I have a woodsy backyard which they spend a lot of time in in good weather, and, I run them every other day for a mile and a half at nature reservoir with 3 large ponds – lots of grasses, weeds, reeds, waterfowl, and other wildlife, as well as scat from other dogs that run there. So I want them to be protected. I have never found a flea or a tick on any of them, nor has their groomer. My sister runs her dogs with me, and she has found dead ticks about 3x in 6 years. She uses topical flea and tick control, I believe.

As many of you have said, we all have to choose what we feel is right for our situation and our babies. Factors like geography, general health of our pups, their age, their breed, etc., our own financial and living situations that also factor into these decisions. No 2 people will have the same circumstances.

Being snarky and using thinly veiled insults only produces more of the same, and draws negative energy to yourself. Be kind to each other. We’re all here to help each other and learn from each other because we have infinite love for the creatures who depend upon us. Show some of that compassion and respect to each other.

[Susan]

Yes Marcia you’re right, there’s 3-4 pages of crap & arguing….
Where is “DOG FOOD ADVISOR” Please remove all the bitching comments & leave up the links “Jane” provided, so when people do come onto DFA to look up Bravecto they can read links & make their own minds up…
People PLEASE realise Bravecto does stay in the dogs system longer then the 3 month period, I posted a post just before all the arguing started & Jane backed it up with links…
In Australia vets are recommending to give Bravecto every 4 months instead of the 3 months & if you do not live in a tick infected area & are using Bravecto for fleas then stop giving Bravecto in the cooler months… They have tested dogs that take Bravecto & the dogs still had fluralaner in their system 143 days later…no further test have been released to the public to my knowledge but I bet the fluralaner stays in the dogs system heaps longer then the 143 days….how you’d know if you stop giving the Bravecto chews, see how long it takes for your dog to get fleas & see when there’s a tick on your dog are they dying or dead. One lady found dead tick 9 months later after she had stopped the Bravecto cause her 4yr old dog became ill….
If you have an elderly dog, dog with health problems or a dog that has seizures or Epilepsy please do your research first before giving any Bravecto chews to your dog, read Janes links..

If people still want to argue their point there are 2 live groups on Face Book one is for Bravecto- “Does Bravecto Kill Dogs?” the other group is for Nexgard- “Does Nexgard kill dogs?”

[Marcia]

Thanks for the FB info on Nexgard, Susan. I was aware of the Bravecto one, but not Nexgard. I’ve been wondering about that chew, so I’m going to check it out.

[Jane L]

Same class of new drugs in the class of Isoxylines as is the latest Simparica.

The reviews in Australia are awful. It does come with seizure warning as does Simparica. Merck have still not added one to the oral yet in spite of them saying that the ingredient Fluralaner can cause seizures on the new topical versions. On the two most recent FDA reports seizures were almost double with Nexgard than Bravecto.

http://www.productreview.com.au/p/nexgard-chewables.html

[Jane L]

http://yourpetsneedthis.com/zoetis-simparica-bravecto-nexgard/

This has interesting information. Including this.

FURTHER INVESTIGATION NEEDED!!

I am astounded to read the final paragraph under Animal Safety on the product insert. I’ve included it word-for-word below. For me, these are simply the most intriguing four sentences I have read ALL YEAR.

Why?

Because I believe whatever happened in this dog is the VERY process that is occurring in all of the dogs who’ve experienced side effects with Bravecto and Nexgard. Some of these dogs have died. We must determine what is happening here!

“In a separate exploratory pharmacokinetic study, one female dog dosed at 12 mg/kg (3X the maximum recommended dose) exhibited lethargy, anorexia, and multiple neurological signs including ataxia, tremors, disorientation, hypersalivation, diminished proprioception, and absent menace, approximately 2 days after a third monthly dose. The dog was not treated, and was ultimately euthanized. The first two doses resulted in plasma concentrations that were consistent with those of the other dogs in the treatment group. Starting at 7 hours after the third dose, there was a rapid 2.5 fold increase in plasma concentrations within 41 hours, resulting in a Cmax more than 7-fold higher than the mean Cmax at the maximum recommended use dose. No cause for the sudden increase in sarolaner plasma concentrations was identified.“

[Becca]

This info is so sad. But much needed to put out there. I haven’t had time to research the most recent info. So I thank you for putting it out there

[Cameron M]

And I see we are right back to the unfounded, illogical doom and gloom. Amazing…such nonsense by those who ignore science.

I agree that Bravecto does stay in the body longer than 90 days…111 days officially but the 90 mark is the effective treatment level. Personally I would administer a bit longer than every three months…say 3.5 months.

Readers …do you catch the illogic? Earlier on the anti bravecto group claims that it really isn’t all that effective killing ticks…then whamo…when the modd strikes them to try to scare people they pull the old switchroo…and now claim that Bravecto is so deadly it killed a tick 9 months…thats right 9 months after the last dose was given.

Amazing

[Jane L]

I thought you said you were shutting up at least ten comments ago?

I reply to other people that ask questions not trolls but one thing I will say to you is yet again you are talking total rubbish. The Bravecto group never ever said it does not kill ticks. It’s a very efficient killer. It’s the fact that a tick takes up to 12 hours to die that is the issue and that because of this many dogs still get tick diseases.

I wish if you bother to comment you would get your facts straight as Merck confirm this and it’s listed in data sheet under the cons.

PARASITIPEDIA

“Detailed information on the toxicity and the fate of fluralaner in the dog’s body (absorption, distribution, metabolism, excretion) and in the environment is scarce.

Due to their recent introduction there is very little knowledge on tolerance in different dog breeds or in young, old or otherwise weak animals.

There is so far little information available on this active ingredient. It is similar to Afoxolaner, another active ingredient introduced by MERIAL (NEXGARD) recently approved in the US and the EU.

“Fluralaner is available for oral administration to dogs, i.e. it has a systemic mode of action. Ingested fluralaner is rapidly absorbed into blood and distributed throughout the whole body of the treated dog. Blood-sucking parasites (mainly fleas and ticks) are killed during their blood meal.

But the systemic mode of action means also that for fleas and/or ticks to be killed, they have to bite the dog first and suck enough blood before the ingested active ingredient kills them. Whether killing is fast enough to prevent disease transmission is not yet known.”

• This reply was modified 7 years, 6 months ago by Jane L.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 6 months ago by Jane L.

[Cameron M]

No…I can’t allow you and your ilk to spread false rumors period. You have no clue as to science and spread fear without being helpful to those who seek effective flea control.

One of your vocal group actually dismissed any flea control…another suggested organic (fine if it works in some areas but it doesn’t work down South).

One misguided anti Bravecto woman actually suggested that she used spot treatments which as well all know contains the exact same poison as roach spray..( great…very safe and logical)

When the mood strikes and the conversation turns to killing ticks as a benefit the anti group then flip flops and claims Bravecto really isn’t all the effective in killing ticks or helping prevent Lyme disease…even going so far as to cite claims that LIVE ticks were found on dogs given Bravecto.

Now flipping again when fear suits your needs the anti group cites examples of Bravecto killing a tick 9 months after the last dose was given…alluding to how utterly harmful and scary the drug must be to still be working 9 months later ( which is utter nonsense by the way)

Whe you stop spreading fear and start talking science ( and as I pointed out reports are not to be confused with scientific fact) I will gladly stop posting.

For some reasonyou think you own the blog…sorry…you don’t

[Jane L]

Have you read an ADE reports on the huge number of dead and stillborn puppies?

Even in testing there was a high % of deformities especially cleft palet and limb deformities. Breeders from many Countries are reporting fertility issues as well as dead a deformed puppies. Litters of up to 10 are dying within days of suckling or stillborn.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 6 months ago by Jane L.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 6 months ago by Jane L.

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