[Alamo]

As the title suggests, I found an old carcass last night (a scattering of bones and sun tanned leather at this point) and I snagged a bleach white beef rib for my 7 month old Corso. After giving it to her this morning and listening to her thoroughly enjoy it for several minutes I heard a brittle snapping sound. After the “drop” command was given she spit out a quarter size shard of bone, it didn’t have jagged edges but I was still too worried to let her continue. She absolutely loves these bones and I’ve supervised her chewing them into dust before, but is this one too old?

Is exposure similar to cooking?
Are old carcass bones ok to give?

Thanks in advance, and please advise quickly….River is under my desk right now complaining because her antler is suddenly no good….

• This topic was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by Alamo.

[Coonhound Mama]

Oh no, I absolutely would not do that again. Aside from the fact that that bone has been sitting there long enough to harbor some very serious bacteria, a sun bleached bone is not edible. Sun has the same effect on bones that cooking them does- it breaks them down into dry and flaky shards that could potentially cause cuts in the GI tract. Stick to fresh, raw rib bones only.

[anonymous]

/forums/topic/bones-2/
All bones are bad,. I know that you don’t believe me and that you prefer to listen to the homeopathic crowd.
Fine, make sure you have the number for the 24/7 emergency veterinary clinic, directions and how long it will take you to get there. The odds are you will need this information readily available.

[haleycookie]

RAW bones such as the frozen primal bones sold at petvalus are safe but there are always risks with anything. Just always make sure with ANYTHING you give your dog you are watching them while they chew on it. I often get ppl that ask me “what is something I can leave with my dog to chew on?” The answer is nothing. Don’t leave your dog to chew on anything alone. Which you did not do and I’d imagine you’re smart enough to know that. Great that you taught your dog drop it too. I also wouldn’t recommend a rotted bleached bone off of a mystery carcass. Go to a petvalu if you have one near and pick up one of the raw primal bones or I believe they can be ordered online. I have used those with several different dog sitting dogs and they all love them. Don’t be scared of bones, I find they are a great way to clean the teeth of tartar. I also toss raw bones within 24 hrs of opening. And if I ever purchase those filled bones or meaty bones from petco I toss those once the dog has pulled out the center filling or pulled off all the meaty bits from the bone.

[anonymous]

Excerpt below from http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2010/04/give-a-dog-a-bone-not-fda-warns-of-dangers-of-feeding-bones-to-dogs/comment-page-1/
Click on link for full article and comments. I hope this helps someone.

Give a Dog a Bone (Not!)–FDA warns of dangers of feeding bones to dogs
Posted on April 25, 2010 by skeptvet
The Food and Drug Administration issue a warning about feeding bones to dogs recently. Just like feeding milk to cats (which also isn’t a very good idea), giving bones to dogs is a cultural cliché that we learn about as children. Bones are often the symbol for all things canine. Unfortunately, the idea that they are a fun and healthy part of the domestic dog’s diet is a myth. Eating bones can result in all sorts of medical problems, some minor and some serious. The FDA warning lists some of the more important:
Broken teeth. This may call for expensive veterinary dentistry.
Mouth or tongue injuries. These can be very bloody and messy and may require a trip to see your veterinarian.
Bone gets looped around your dog’s lower jaw. This can be frightening or painful for your dog and potentially costly to you, as it usually means a trip to see your veterinarian.
Bone gets stuck in esophagus, the tube that food travels through to reach the stomach. Your dog may gag, trying to bring the bone back up, and will need to see your veterinarian.
Bone gets stuck in windpipe. This may happen if your dog accidentally inhales a small enough piece of bone. This is an emergency because your dog will have trouble breathing. Get your pet to your veterinarian immediately!
Bone gets stuck in stomach. It went down just fine, but the bone may be too big to pass out of the stomach and into the intestines. Depending on the bone’s size, your dog may need surgery or upper gastrointestinal endoscopy, a procedure in which your veterinarian uses a long tube with a built-in camera and grabbing tools to try to remove the stuck bone from the stomach.
Bone gets stuck in intestines and causes a blockage. It may be time for surgery.
Constipation due to bone fragments. Your dog may have a hard time passing the bone fragments because they’re very sharp and they scrape the inside of the large intestine or rectum as they move along. This causes severe pain and may require a visit to your veterinarian.
Severe bleeding from the rectum. This is very messy and can be dangerous. It’s time for a trip to see your veterinarian.
Peritonitis. This nasty, difficult-to-treat bacterial infection of the abdomen is caused when bone fragments poke holes in your dog’s stomach or intestines. Your dog needs an emergency visit to your veterinarian because peritonitis can kill your dog.

[haleycookie]

All of those things are such extreme circumstances they make me laugh. Do you know all the things I’ve seen dogs chew on and eat that haven’t hurt them that are far less digestible than a bone? When a responsible dog owner watches their dog and only allows certain amounts of time with a raw bone theyre will rarely be any negative corcumstances. I know way to many dogs that eats raw bones of all kinds of animals on a daily basis that are included in raw diets. Bones are necessary in raw diets especially. Dogs digestive tract, teeth, stomach, and esophagus are still that of a wolf. Wolves eat small bones whole, break them with their teeth, and shatter them to pieces and eat them. I’m not concerned with leaving my dog or any dog UNDER SUPERVISION with a raw bone. And neither should anyone else.

[anonymous]

Like I said before, homeopathic views are different from traditional medicine (veterinary included).
There is nothing to debate.
However, I have been to the emergency vet, paid the bills and decided offering bones to any animals that are under my care is not worth it.
PS: They were all supervised when the emergency situations occurred, it only takes a second to crack a tooth. Gastrointestinal obstructions can take a week or two to develop. It’s not pretty to watch an animal suffer.
It’s not 1955, they have veterinary orthodontists that are just waiting for you folks that give bones to their dogs to come in for treatment for fractured teeth.
It can run anywhere from $1000-$3000 for an uncomplicated emergency surgery.

[Alamo]

River is a huge part of my world and as much as I remind myself that she’s descendant from life long bone eaters, just the thought of something happening to her is difficult to deal with.

Especially if its avoidable. We live in a remote area with plenty of built in danger, things that can’t be controlled….to let something this trivial become another possible risk seems unwise presently. I’ll have to get deeper into this before making a decision, thank you everyone for the information and the quick replies!

• This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by Alamo.

[anonymous]

You’re welcome.
If you are receptive to science based veterinary medicine, go here http://skeptvet.com/Blog/
(nothing is being sold at that site)
Best of luck.

[Susan]

Hi,
why not gve fresh raw meaty bones? they are fresh un cooked bone so no shattering or bone that has been cooked etc, In Australia we have raw or slow air dried Kangaroo tendons, they’re healthy & good to chew…. find a company that makes really good high quality slow air dried bones if you don’t want to feed fresh meaty bones & if there’s any 2 day old bones laying around the yard pick them up & throw them out, if you have local butcher they normally sell cheap off cut meaty bones & know the best part of the carcass to give dogs to chew & keep a pup busy that wont splinter etc, a butcher told me the best bone to give a dog is the elbow section of the Lamb, I don’t know if this is correct or he just likes that bit of bone for his dogs??, ask your local butcher or join a few Raw feeding F/B groups they normally know which meaty bone is best to give, just do not feed any of those rawhide chews made to look like bones…

[haleycookie]

It’s unfortunate anon that you don’t let your dogs be dogs. I’ve met other like yourself. That are so scared something will hurt their dogs they don’t let their dogs enjoy themselves or live their lives naturally. I have a co worker who’s little dog hurt his knee a few months ago. He’s only 6 not old at all. And my coworker has made the absurd decision to get rid of all his toys and not throw any of them or play with him anymore purely out of the fear his dog will hurt his knee again. He has to be supervised to prevent any running in the yard so that he doesn’t hurt his knee again. What a sad life I can’t imagine not being able to enjoy things that are natural and fun and heathy. He’s also already over weight and on a high carb prescription weight loss diet that is doing nothing and his owner is so blind to the fact. He also seems to believe that milk bones clean his dogs teeth. Letting a dog chew on a bone is not homeopathic science. It’s nature. And a much better teeth cleaner than a milk bone. That’s for sure.

[aimee]

Haleycookie.. count my dogs among the unfortunate. We are all shaped by experience. When I was a teen I saw a dog choke to death on a bone…. horrible imprinted memory. A friend used to feed raw, stopped after the dog had peritonitis from intestinal bone perforation. Events like these may be “extreme circumstances” to use your words but I have to say they did not, to use your words “make me laugh”. When you experience it first hand it becomes very personal.

People should be informed of the risks of bone chewing and then decide if they are at peace with those risks. I’m not comfortable with those risks and others are. We can each respect each others decisions.

[anonymous]

@ Aimee,
Thanks. I do my best to ignore comments like that, as per the “commenting policy” here recommends.
“The best way to defeat them is to treat them as invisible” (excerpt from link below)
/commenting-policy/

[pitlove]

I guess my dogs are unforunate as well. Being in the veterinary medicine field and hearing all the surgeons at an emergency clinic talk about the things (including bones) they have had to pull out of dogs stomachs, I would never in my right mind give my dog any type of bone. I brush my dogs teeth for oral health.

Comparing your dog to a wolf is old and tired rhetoric. Wolves have a short lifespan in the wild and do not eat an optimal diet. We do not know the mortality rate of wild wolves or other canid species that consume bone due to blockage or intestinal perforation.

[Alamo]

“Comparing your dog to a wolf is old and tired rhetoric. Wolves have a short lifespan in the wild and do not eat an optimal diet. We do not know the mortality rate of wild wolves or other canid species that consume bone due to blockage or intestinal perforation.”

I feel the same way, and my gut tells me it (mortality rate in the wild) is probably high. As much as I want her to be happy, life is short enough without taking on unnecessary risk.

[anonymous]

Try a fresh cold raw carrot to chew on. My dogs love them as a once a day snack. You could even freeze them first (good for teething puppies) but it’s not necessary.
A good source of fiber, low calorie. Don’t be alarmed if you see carrot chunks in their feces, this is normal and harmless.
Also keep an eye on your dogs to make sure they are not gulpers (choking hazard) and that they chew/gnaw/ break them down before eating.

[poodaddy]

Ahhh … what a juicy topic and it seems full of emotion – perhaps a story of multiple parts which will eventually be relevant to chewing bones will help others – gotta love real life stories. Context – Not a Vet or a Licensed Dog whatever but have been training dogs from basic obedience to field trials (for about 40+ years of studying mostly working with many breeds in dog training clubs – some of the best times in my life – some of the most diverse professionals who were in those clubs – try it if you don’t do it). Was finished with years of shelties and open jumping and wanted a gun dog and to be active in a gun club in upstate PA. So studied up on it, and got an awesome yellow lab, bred for hunting, waited a year for him from a professional duck hunter, and was soooo excited when the day came for me to drive 10 hours to pick him up at 7 weeks old (1995 in Pennsylvania). Carefully trained the puppy to six months in puppy obedience (of course) with the understanding this was going to be a gun dog and of course our favorite home companion too! This big strong consistent smart yeller was amazing in the field under the tutelage of a retiring yellow lab female for upland game and an unreal black for water dog training. Yes, …. for those who do not know, gun dogs in high end clubs mostly learn from retiring master gun dogs and the owners learn from the professional handlers. That dog grew up able to chew, crush, devour anything with jaws and teeth that were bred to handle it (and snapping the neck of a really big furious goose when needed). Teeth were shiny white, never came close to breaking a tooth that I could see, no periodontal disease, healthy male lab, as loving as could be around children/people, but was a focused working dog in the field with an unbelievable level of hearing, great sight and instincts that made me a better person, hunter and handler. Fast forward, many years later, we were suffering from the loss of this companion and we get two pups (14 lb at maturity) cockapoos because I am done with hair in the house and I want a canine companion in my office with me in my 12-15 hour days as a business owner. After the poo male’s first broken adult tooth from meaty bone chewing and the female’s bowel issues from eating “stuff” not even close to bone fragments, and a couple vet visits, gone was bone chewing other than VERY careful observed knawing on some softer meaty bones that are more trouble than they are worth due to the messiness – but the poos love them nonetheless. We were driven to address the anal gland secretion issues, the normal onset of periodontal disease at the 4 year mark and scale build up, bad breath, …

* We learned something REMARKABLE after our vet informed us we must make an appointment for two dogs to be anesthetized and get their teeth cleaned (expensive situation that carried some risk). Early in this year 2017, for different reasons, I embarked on a journey of raw food self-education primarily for anal gland issues and my growing nervousness of kibble, my reading about how commercial dog food is prepared, and my ignorance of what is in it (we were feeding them Blue Buffalo Company products) which may be high quality but I did not trust any kibble and the dogs were finicky with any kibble diet. Since March 2017, their diet (100% raw) has apparently changed their body chemistry so dramatically that the scale on their teeth started “slowly dissolving” after about 6 weeks. Their breath changed in about a week or two for the better. I could rake the scale off with the slightest pressure from a fingernail after a month. The follow on vet visit since then resulted in “anal gland secretion problem resolved” – saved $60/visit/60 days gone due to firm stools from ground bone in the raw diet, “periodontal disease problem – $1600/both dogs resolved” due to (1) the change in digestive chemistry according to our vet with my research concluding the same, (2) and combined with once a week brushing to keep removing the scale, “all digestive issues of periodic loose stools or strange eating habits – resolved as they love the raw food diet we manufacture. So, what is the relevance? The risks of raw meaty bones with a dog directly correlate to the breed, size, and situation. At least this is the conclusion from our real life experience, backed up by concurrence with our vet, and it is consistent with our friends’ experiences who have smaller poo-hybrids versus those with labs. Who is learning? The human for certain … and both the human and dog are benefiting. Booya for education, trial and error, doing things for the love of the dog, and persistence!

[Susan]

Hi Poodaddy,
Welcome to DFA, I really enjoyed your story, the same thing happened with my cat Jeremy he was 10yrs old & his breath was awful, his teeth were full of tarter from eating wet tin food & dry kibble & a cooked food (what I ate) Jeremy loved his food & made daily visits to a few neigbours places, same time everyday for 14 yrs, he was a Main Coon, a beautiful big cat, he was the same height as my English Staffy Patch, his vet said we can clean his teeth & it will cost $460 & if any teeth need removing it will be an extra $50 per tooth, plus he will need a blood test before we can give him any anaesthetic cause he’s 10yrs old or you can start giving him chicken necks, vet said I’ve seen really good results giving cats chicken necks, so naturally I pick the safe & natural way to clean his teeth & I started giving him meaty chicken necks & chciken wings he loved them & the tarter started to come off his teeth & no more smelly breath, I just wish I fed him a raw diet earlier, poor Jeremy passed away age 14, then Patch became real sick again with his IBD vet didn’t know what was wrong, his diet hadn’t changed but he was having a bad IBD flare, STRESS he was really depressed since Jeremy had been PTS, so the best thing to do was adopt a new cat so off we went to the RSPCA, they knew we were coming & had a few cats waiting to met Patch, Patch picked this scrawny, skinny 5 month old street kitten with a bent tail, a bent ear & had had bad ear mites & was still being treated for really bad ear infection caused by the ear mites infestation, I said to Patch look there’s a beautiful looking ginger boy he’s friendly he’s a kitten he’s NOT SICK, but Patch really liked this little scrawny kitten & she really took to Patch, they both really liked each other straight away… As the days passed Patch got better & was like a young pup playing, running, giving his balls to this kitten, the kitten “Indy” washes him at night before bed & now she thinks she is a dog not a cat cause she has been brought up by a dog, Indy is feed a raw diet she eats everything & loves her freeze Dried Green Lipped Mussels every day…..

….”Steve Brown” when asked if you had to pick just 1 food to add to your dog bowl of fresh food to make it better, what would it be, Steve said Mussels… they’re cheap, they have Iodine, Manganese, Omega 3, DHA, EPA, Vitamin-D, alot of raw foods are short of Iodine, fats & Vitamin-D so add 1-2 mussels a day, also add 1 tablespoon of Salmon & a pinch of Kelp…Follow “Rodney Habib” on facebook. https://www.facebook.com/rodneyhabib

Rodney & Ty Bollinger interview medical professionals & cancer scientists to find the truth about PET CANCER & their new documentry “The Truth About Pet Cancer” is finally being released 17th October 2017….. Best thing you’ve done is put your dogs on a raw diet.. when I move into my house 1-2 months I’m re trying Patch on a raw diet again this time no enzymes or probiotics & I’ll see if it works out this time, I hate feeding him dry processed kibble & he see’s Indy getting raw meal, it breaks my heart…

[Author]

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