[weezerweeks]

My yorkie seems to have this. He throws up about every 2 weeks. The cerenia or Pepcid clears it up but I don’t like giving drugs. He is on canned weruva and wellness stews at the moment. I give him Mercola’s probiotic and digestive enzyme. I have also been adding a teaspoon of pumpkin. I read he should be on low fat and low protein diet. I know his food is high in protein but low in fat. If I give low protein and low fat then that will mean high carbs and I don’t like carbs. Any suggestions on food and supplements that would help this. I don’t want his esophogus damaged. He does not have loose stools. He just throws his food up about an hour after he eats. He had blood panel and urinalisis in Jan. He is 7 now and I was going to wait until Jan. to have it again. I do it yearly but do u think I should have it done now? Thanks

[Anonymous]

I would stop all gobbledygook supplements and pumpkin stuff, maybe this is what is making him nauseous.
What does your vet who is prescribing the cerenia and okaying the prn pepcid recommend?
If the GI upset has been going on for a while, I would seek out a specialist to get an exact diagnosis and treatment options.
Less is better, keep the diet simple. A healthy dog can tolerate a variety of foods.
Just my opinion.

[weezerweeks]

My vet is not prescribing anything. I have cerenia tablets and Pepcid so I’ve been prescribing myself. Everything I read says probiotics and digestive enzymes are good to help a dog digest his food. Any other ideas anyone.

[Susan]

Hi my boy suffers from acid reflux, two years I’ve been battling with new diets, ant acid meds etc & this is what I have found..
You are better of leaving him on the Pepcid instead of stopping & re starting it again, the burning acid can burn their throat, esophagus & even cause ulcers if he hasn’t already got an ulcer..the Pepcid will relieve his discomfort…
Slipperly Elm Powder is suppose to be good google how to make a slurry paste..Slippery Elm coats the throat, stomach & stops nausea, you can add about 1/4 teaspoon slippery elm powder to their meals…I’ve never tried adding with meals, I was going to try if this new diet doesn’t work.. I’ve ordered the Royal Canine Intestinal low fat kibble as much as I hate vet diets, I’ve run out of kibbles & wet tin foods.. I live Australia & low fat diets are very hard to find the weight loss diets are low in fat & are higher in fiber & you need to avoid high fiber diets I’ve read..
I add about 1/2 teaspoon of the Slippery Elm Powder in a glass & add boiling water & stir till I have a thick paste but not too thick, I put about 3mls in a syringe when it cooled…this seem to help Patch but I hate giving him any meds, herbs, supplements..
I had him on Zantac as the Zantac doesn’t interfere with the bowel like other ant acids do.. now I give liquid Mylanta 3mls in a syringe, I make about 2 syringes up & leave in the fridge, the cool Mylanta soothes the throat & stomach…
I give 3mls Mylanta at 6am 1/2-1 hour before breakfast then if I see Patch unwell or feeling sick thru the day I give another 3ml Mylanta…it taste yuk but he lets me give it to him, so it must make him feel better normally he runs when he has to take tablets & see the syringe with water but with the Mylanta he doesn’t run away..I have found the Mylanta relieves Patches acid instantly..

You need to book your boy in for an Endoscope & Biopsies to see what is happening…blood test will not show if there’s anything wrong with his stomach only his pancreas, has he had the blood test for his Pancreas? All Patches blood test came back good & he had all the symptoms of Pancreatitis again..so Patch had Endoscope & Biopsies last December his stomach looked good the vet said, no ulcers or any scaring from old ulcers, lucky he had the biopsies as well, they found the Helicobacter-Pylori infection, he was given the triple therapy antibiotics & Zantac for 3 weeks but as soon as the course was finished he had his real bad acid reflux again, so vet said keep him on the Zantac twice a day every 12 hours which I did for about 1 month then I stopped his Zantac to see if his acid reflux came back, I changed his diet again to a lower protein.. & was just giving the 1/3 Zantac 150mg tablet every morning 6 am 30mins-1 hour before food & I stopped the night Zantac & he seemed OK & if he did wake thru the night licking lips, I give Mylanta..

I cant find a real low fat wet tin food only the Royal Canine Intestinal Low Fat or the Hills I/d Low Fat GI Restore they have boiled rice & Patch can’t eat boiled rice it gives him diarrhea, he can have grounded rice in kibbles, so I soak Patches kibble & drain all the water real well when the kibble is swollen then put thru a blender & its like wet tin food but has the low fat & low protein 8%-fat & 22%-protein.. I also cook Extra lean beef ground mince made into little rissoles balls, I also buy kangaroo mince for a change & blend a carrot broccoli & celery & add with the mince & bake in the oven & hardly any fat comes out of the extra lean beef or Kangaroo mince..

I would cook then freeze little meals, a low fat meat with blended green veggies, broccoli, celery, beans, kale etc or another wet tin food where the fat is 2% & under….The Wellness Stews are 4%-fat so when converted to dry matter (Kibble) its 16.2% fat, that’s pretty high in fat… & put him back on the Pepcid if it works for him, some of the Wellness Stews have potatoes or sweet potatoes, I was looking for another recipe last night for acid reflux & it said stay away from starchy veggies, Potatoes, Legumes & sweet Potatoes & give Pumkin, Squash, Rutabaga Turnip instead.. here’s the link… http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blogspot.com.au/2013/12/acid-reflex-gerd-in-dogs-cats-natural.html
I’ve read Kale is good, it has Chlorophyll what is found in grass, it settles their stomach & digestive upsets.. so I’m going to try adding some blended kale to his rissoles as well..

[weezerweeks]

Thanks SUsan for all the information. The vet (not my vet) put him on liquid Zantac syrup and it worked but It has sorbitol in it so I quit giving it. I use perfect form by THK which has slippery elm in it and it works great. We don’t have the glair ups too often. The weruva food is low in fats but high in protein which causes acid. He does well when I have him on boiled chicken and rice. I’m thinking of ordering one of the premises from THK and add my own cooked meat. He’s due for a check up in a few weeks so we’ll see. Thanks again, Deanna

[Susan]

Hi, a lot of dogs do real well on “The Honest Kitchen Zeal” its low fat, low carbs, I cant get it in Australia.. 🙁 oh I can get it thru Amazon but its sooo dear for the delivery, delivery is dearer then the food….

[weezerweeks]

Susan or anyone when I give my yorkie the Pepcid is it okay to give it with a little yogurt where I don’t have to put it down his throat? The vet that prescribed the Zantac syrup said not to give it with food but what does he know he prescribed something with sorbitol in it. When should I give it? He takes thyroid melds at 7a.m and 7p.m.

[Susan]

Hi Weezerweeks, Zantac has to be taken 40-60mins before food, like Carafate.. but with Pepcid I always read people give it with food… I found this link & it said to give Pepcid with or without food… http://gicare.com/medication/pepcid/

[Susan]

“Hydrochlorhydria” is when you do not make enough hydrochloric acid in the stomach you have the same symptoms acid reflux, burping, heartburn, gas, bloating etc doctors & vets hear the symptoms & just assume your making too much hydrochloric acid & prescribe an ant acid medication…what I’m finding with Patch, he feels sick or vomits after taking Zantac, he vomited after taking Pepcid, he had pain after eating when he took Losec & Somac, after taking Carafate he was whinging & crying, so I’m starting to think he’s not making enough stomach acid & when he takes an ant-acid medication, it makes everything worse apparently as we get older we don’t make as much hydrochloric acid…I don’t think there’s any tests for dog or cats to find out if they’re not making enough hydrochloric acid.

99% of the Time it is Low Stomach Acidity (Hypochlorhydria) Which Causes Heartburn, Acid Reflux and Hair Loss – Antacids Make The Problem Worse!

[losul]

Weezerweeks, please use much caution about giving a dog human antacids/PPI’s/ acid , especially for any prolonged length of time, beyond occasional usage, without carefully regulated dosage, without guidance from a good vet, and without knowing the actual cause of acid reflux symptoms, if that’s even what it is (acid reflux). As said above, hypochlorhydria can cause the exact same symptoms. I cringe every time I hear of someone self medicating., and it could be creating worse problems, especially in the longer term, if the cause is low stomach acid, or even if the problem does not originate from excessive acid production.. Even, if the underlying cause were to be excessive acid production, if you cut a pill that was designed for a 160lb human in quarters and give to a 10 lb dog, that dosage seems way too much anyway. It’s too easy to intuitively assume these sort of symptoms (reflux or indigestion) stems from excessive stomach acid. It could be excess stomach acid production or refluxing for numerous reasons, but I feel that way too often it may be caused by just the opposite, probably both in dogs as in humans. If antacids are given to a dog in wrong dosage or if the dog really suffers from low stomach acid and antacids are given, it could lead to achlorydria (no stomach acid)…

I spent a great deal of time studying on this over the last year and a half or so, the “acid” reflux, GERD, hypochlorydria, achloridia, hyperchlorydria, digestion problems, etc. and how it relates to overall health/disease. It’s a complicated issue, and I’m absolutely no medical pro at all, but I think I’ve learned some good info on the subject. Good health really begins in the first part of digestion, the stomach, IMO. Most of the info available pertains to humans, but should apply to dogs as well. I’ve been wanting to write about this again for awhile now….It’s been high on my to do list… I really sympathize and feel with the folks and their dogs, the helplessness feeling and distressed feelings such as on forum threads like “dog gulping and swallowing”, and of course with Sue and her dog Patch, and anyone else’s also.

Sue, I think you’re finally probably on the right track now with your thinking, and on the right path with consulting with the Naturopath vet, I hope you continue with that. I hope you are also up front with her/him about Patch’s extensive past antacid usage, also the extensive antibiotics usage. H. Pylori thrives in lower stomach acid and will in fact even help create a less acidic atmosphere for itself via it’s large production of urease, which metabolizes in the stomach to ammonia and neutralizes stomach acid. The H pylori can also damage the mucous and the parietal cells in the stomach, which produce the hydrochloric acid and pepsin in the stomach. It does become necessary to use the antacids along with the antibiotic therapy to eradicate the h pylori. I thought this odd at first, but it turns out, I found that H. Pylori does needs hydrochloric acid in it’s metabolism, so to limit stomach acid during eradication makes sense. And of course antacids become necessary to allow time for ulcers or damaged esophagus, etc. to heal. I think you already said that Patch didn’t have ulcers or damage to his esophagus? Actually H. Pylori is very rare in the stomachs of dogs as I understand it, but other helicobacter species are more common and may be a normal inhabitant of a canine stomach.

I don’t believe there are any good tests on a dog to find out about stomach acid production. There’s a good test for humans, the Heidelburg PH capsule test, minimally invasive, although it’s not a mainstream or well known diagnostic tool, (nope most doctors will just prescribe an antacid) and it can also even measure PH in the small and large intestine.. I called them sometime back and asked if there was any in use for dogs, which I already doubted, I was told no, but that she would bring it up at the next company meeting. Humans can do some limited self testing to a certain extent, which I won’t get into, but can’t really do that with dogs, as they can’t tell exactly what they are feeling at the moment.

I’ve got whole lots of links bookmarked on this subject, when I can get to them and when I get time. For now, there’s a pretty good summary of digestion/disease issues just from the Heidelberg Medical site. I would read ALL the “learn more” topics (on the right side), including hypochlorhydria, allergies, diabetes, gastritis, asthma, dumping syndrome, hyperchlorydria, achlorydria, the medications, PPI’s, H2’s GERD, antibiotics, pyloric insufficiency, etc. Please read them all.

http://phcapsule.com/digestion/gerd-reflux/

[Anonymous]

Thanks for speaking up. I was always under the impression that these meds were for short term, prn use, and given with the guidance of a veterinarian.
Also, a lot of these meds can have interactions with other meds/supplements.
In reference to losul’s comment (excerpt below)

“Weezerweeks, please use much caution about giving a dog human antacids/PPI’s/ acid , especially for any prolonged length of time, beyond occasional usage, without carefully regulated dosage, without guidance from a good vet, and without knowing the actual cause of acid reflux symptoms, if that’s even what it is (acid reflux). As said above, hypochlorhydria can cause the exact same symptoms. I cringe every time I hear of someone self medicating., and it could be creating worse problems, especially in the longer term, if the cause is low stomach acid, or even if the problem does not originate from excessive acid production.. Even, if the underlying cause were to be excessive acid production, if you cut a pill that was designed for a 160lb human in quarters and give to a 10 lb dog, that dosage seems way too much anyway. It’s too easy to intuitively assume these sort of symptoms (reflux or indigestion) stems from excessive stomach acid. It could be excess stomach acid production or refluxing for numerous reasons, but I feel that way too often it may be caused by just the opposite, probably both in dogs as in humans. If antacids are given to a dog in wrong dosage or if the dog really suffers from low stomach acid and antacids are given, it could lead to achlorydria (no stomach acid)”

[Susan]

Hi Iosul, if Patch was your dog what would you do? When Patch had Endoscope & biopsies done last December 2014 the Diagnosis said “Moderate to chronic Lymphocytic Gastritis with associated spiral bacteria infection”.. her comment was “Helicobacter are controversial pathogens in dogs & cats being present in asymptomatic animals. Where there is significant pathology in combination with characteristic clinical signs they may be significant. It is more common to see larger numbers of them in the fundic region of the stomach. This could also be a manifestation of MORE EXTENSIVE inflammatory bowel disease..

The live Probiotics the Naturopath wanted him to take make him feel sick they’re gluten &
dairy free & are kept in the fridge I read that some probiotics can make you feel sick, the Naturopath said we need to fix his gut to get his stomach pH back to 1 again but Patch
kept regurgitating the raw diet water would come back up into his mouth & he would swallow & swallow it.. how I know it was water that was coming up is he went to look in my shopping bag to see what a lady had given me & he did his regurgitating all down the side of my bag, it just happens & he hadn’t drank any water only ate his kangaroo & 2 spoons of blended veggies about 3 hours after eating the raw for breakfast, then I thought maybe the enzymes broke the raw down too quick so I tried without the enzymes & Patch felt sick & was eating grass, like the Naturopath said would happen, I asked her what will the enzymes do she said stop any nausea & help stop any bowel rumbling & diarrhea….so I stopped the raw diet enzymes & probiotic & put him back on his kibble & started to cook but he regurgitated the cooked food as well & I never gave enzymes or probiotic, the thing is he doesn’t regurgitate soaked kibble or wet tin foods, then I thought could there be too much protein in the raw & cooked diet & he cant handle all that meat Kangaroo or beef.. where the wet tin food only has 7% (30%) protein.. the kibble he’s eating has about 22% protein.. I don’t know I cant work out how to fix him…. I will photo copy the link you posted… I need to find out how to make his gut healthy again.. I’ve tried low fat greek yogurt he started his licking & licking his mouth & wanted grass..
Lew Olson said give him L-Glutamine & cabbage juice to help with the nausea..

My vet said we may never fix this problem, at least he’s not in the condition he was in when you rescued him, I said, I suppose but I want him healthy & pain free 🙁

[weezerweeks]

Red and Losul: Thanks for ur comments. I never give my dog otc human melds without checking with my vet. I have probably given Bailey Pepcid 3 times in his life.His condition is not bad I just don’t want it to get bad.Two years ago he was coughing and throwing up and we checked for mesoesopogus which he didn’t have. He had something in his throat(very small) my vet made him an appt. at UGA vet school for a scope test but when he xrayed it again it was gone so we cancelled. We think the test for mesoesopogus the food mixed with barium washed it off.I just had him groomed and I’m afraid she used the thing around his neck because I forgot to remind her. I am taking him to my vet tomorrow for a good check up. Thanks everyone.

[Anonymous]

http://www.aspca.org/about-us/faq/sorbitol

Sorbitol is a plant-based sugar alcohol that’s used as a sweetener in many products, including sugar-free foods, laxatives and other medications. Due to its laxative capabilities, loose stools or diarrhea can occur if consumed in large doses. However, the amount of sorbitol in pet toothpaste used for brushing your pooch’s teeth is not likely to be an issue.

[losul]

Hi Red. I do think it’s important to use caution with these things. Even if a vet were to give instructions to give antacids/inhibitors to my dog (or even a Doctor to me) on any kind of regular basis, I would be asking questions and investigating, is it acid reflux? what is causing it, how do I get to he root of the problem, and not just treat symptoms, what could/would be the consequences, could it actually be caused by low stomach acid, etc..
———–
Hi Sue, I’m sorry couldn’t respond sooner, my time is limited lately, and having internet troubles on top of that.. I don’t find much about lymphocytic gastritis in dogs, or at least searching those 2 particular words alone. In humans, “Lymphocytic gastritis is a rare gastritis primarily diagnosed by the surgical pathologist. There is a peculiar infiltration of benign lymphocytes into the glands and surface mucosa. It may be associated with celiac disease and Helicobacter infection of the stomach. There are case reports of clearing of the disease by treatment for Helicobacter infection in the stomach.”

http://www.thedoctorsdoctor.com/diseases/stomach_lymphocytic_gastritis.htm

In dogs, most of the hits I came up as canine lymphocytic-plasmacytic gastroenteritis and is still of unknown causes(idiopathic). “Canine lymphocytic-plasmacytic gastroenteritis(LP) is one disease in a group of idiopathic, chronic intestinal diseases collectively termed inflammatory bowel disease (IBD), and is considered to be the most common cause of chronic vomiting and diarrhea in dogs. LP gastroenteritis is characterized by a diffuse infiltration of lymnphocytes and plasma cells into the lamina propria of the stomach and/or the small intestine resulting in diffuse mucosal inflammation. Lymphocytic-plasmacytic is the most prevalent form of IBD.”

https://www.addl.purdue.edu/newsletters/2007/Fall/clpg.html

Kind of a side note, and really just a curiosity, I found this study to be of interest, specially the apparent surprising resolution of the disease state, after all the numerous testing and therapies failed, and when the client was finally discouraged by no improvements, stopped all of it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1082873/

The “fundic region” would be the upper main portion of the stomach and should generally be much less acidic, especially at the beginninh process of digestion than the the lower portions. I think that would likely be why Patch’s diagnosis comments read that Helicobacter was usually more prominent in the fundic (less acidic) region.

“•The fundus, which is the main upper portion of the stomach. Fundus means
“enlargement” and refers to the rounded enlarged area at the top of the stomach.
Food gets ground, mixed, and held in the fundus. It is in the fundus that enzymatic
digestion takes place, assuming there are live enzymes present with your meals (or
if you are using digestive enzyme supplements). Although stomach acid will be
released into the fundus, IT IS ONLY AT ABOUT 30% CONCENTRATION and will not affect
enzymatic digestion. After about 40-60 minutes in the fundus, the chyme will move
on into the body of the stomach.”

“•The body, which is the large middle section of the stomach. It is a primary area
of digestion, and it is here that hydrochloric acid and pepsin begin to work full
bore, and at levels sufficient to stop most enzymatic digestion.

•The antrum, which is the last part of the stomach before the pylorus, the gate
which prevents food from entering the intestine before its time. Actually, the
major portion of digestion takes place in the antrum as food is held a long time
and parceled out to the duodenum in a very slow, methodical manner. Incidentally,
antrum means cave and pylorus means gatekeeper.”

Your Stomach, Part 1

I think there’s some REALLY good articles/summaries on that site, especially
pertaining to human digestive/gastric systems, but most of it would be relevant to dogs
also. He does deal with alternatives/naturapathic/holistic, and does also sell
supplements, I don’t necessarily agree with all he says, but I think it’s one of
the most comprehensive, complete, and easiest to understand articles/primers on
digestion I’ve seen.here is the article “your stomach, part 3” , which may most
pertain, especially to the significant importance of acid in digestion/health, but
be sure to read all parts 1,2,3. and the overview on digestion also. In fact most of the whole digestion series is a good read.

Your Stomach, Part 3

http://jonbarron.org/article/overview-digestive-system#.Va1zwGd0w5s

Digestive System

I’m not sure where the “water” would be coming from after Patch ate his raw. Not
excessive saliva? Did you add water to the raw food? Adding water would dilute his
acid production. I’m not sure if you are saying that he threw up the raw or just
water? The enzymes i think should be even more important/purposeful on cooked
foods more so than raw. What kind of enzymes are they? Just go very slow on them at first. I would think Patch’s bio-fauna is much out of whack, and needs to be re-established with good bacteria. He may have mineral/vitamin deficiencies also. I was a little surprised that tha naturpath wanted to immediately switch Patch to raw. I would be a little hesitant to go full force raw right away, knowing Patch’s condition, which is why it’s important to be upfront with the
naturopath as much as possible. Has the naturpath seen Patch, or was it just a
consult? Is it Lew Olson?

If it were me, I would take just baby steps, but I’d give the Naturpath’s advice a
fair shot, and keep her/him informed. Not make too many changes all at once, or
expect too much all at once. Build up very slowly on everything, the probiotics,
the enzymes, the cooked or raw foods.Has Patch been weaned off antacids since the
Helicobacter treatment and fairly stable most of the time with what he’s eating
now? Can you try to introduce just a snack size meal of cooked along with
appropriate small portion enzymes or maybe later raw in between those regular
meals, and just very gradually increasing while decreasing the regular? I’m not
familiar with Roo meat, how easy to digest, how much fat, saurated fats, etc. I
think in the U.S. it’s thought that lean chicken is one of the easiest proteins to
digest, along with well cooked white rice. Vets often advise this temporarily for
gastric distress (provided they don’t have a sensitivity to chicken) and it works
for many dogs. I’ve heard you say that Patch and grounded rice don’t get along? I
don’t understand what you mmean by grounded. In the U.S. white rice is milled and
has the husk, bran and germ removed, leaving virtually only the starchy interior,
it’s usually then “enriched” with some vitamins/minerals. Should be fairly easy to
digest by most dogs. Eventually though I would want to get him off all that starch,
and get him on a more balanced diet. Are you giving him any vitamins/minerals at
all?

On another note, there are a couple of U.S. vets now using fecal matter transplants
for dogs, from only verified healthy donor dogs of course. For humans, it’s
catching on a bit more now, even in a few hospitals, with very promising results from persistent or recurrent IBD, SIBO, colitis, that is usually caused by
persistent, pathogenic, and resistant overgrowths/infections.

Sue, Maybe Patch can’t be completely cured, but I believe with the determination
you’ve shown and continue to show, he WILL get better. There’s alot of people
rooting for you and Patch, I know that I’m one of those!

P.S. I might not be able to write back for a while again.

———————
Hi weezerweeks, y/w.

I understand your concerns with Bailey. Best wishes for his best health!

Let us know how the vet visit goes.

[Author]

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