[Andrea B]

Can anyone confidently speak to a good probiotic &/or digestive enzyme for a dog with chronic acid reflux? My almost 10 year old Corgi has had issues with acid reflux for years. He has always been a heavy water drinker and constant licker – floors, pillows, couches, anything in front of him… which I’m now learning may be a symptom. About 3 years ago he started vomiting yellow foam/bile each morning. We went through several treatments with the vet until finally we started feeding him 4x a day and put him on 1 Prolisec every evening a few hours before his last meal. That stopped the vomiting, but he still constantly licks (not the worst thing, but concerned it’s a symptom). He is still on the feeding schedule (Kirklands signature mature – 4x a day) & Prilosec, and I’m not sure if the Prilosec is something that could harm him long-term. As recently as a few months ago we were giving all our dogs baby carrots for treats every few days and he would sometimes throw up whole baby carrots days after! We stopped giving him the carrots, but I’ve read that could be an indication of lacking digestive enzymes. I’ve read a lot about probiotics versus digestive enzymes and I’m confused. I want to help my boy feel better, but I just don’t know what to try and what products might work best. I don’t want to put him through anymore discomfort than I have to.
Does anyone have any information that could help?

• This topic was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by Andrea B.

[anonymously]

What are you feeding him? My dog that has a sensitive stomach does well on Nutrisca Salmon and Chickpea as a base, no supplements except a fish oil capsule every day.
You could try presoaking the food thereby making it easier to digest.

Has he had a senior workup recently (labs etc)? There could be something else going on…..
I lost a corgi at that age due to an aggressive form of cancer that showed up suddenly without warning.

Some Science-based Veterinary Medicine here: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=probiotics
If you are interested.

[Andrea B]

We were feeding him Science Diet ID for a few years and then switched to Kirkland’s Signature – Mature (looking for something with less grain & higher base quality).
I’ve read pre-soaking the food with apple cider vinegar could be beneficial, and also read you could pre-soak with water but some sources say soaking with water makes acid reflux worse. Have you had experience with either?
He is on a Banfield wellness plan and gets the 6 month check-up & standard labs there. ~3 years ago they tested him for a suite of things including diabetes due to the excessive water drinking. We did a full workup of labs, a water deprivation test and an ultrasound and found nothing… they ruled that he’s just an obsessive water drinker.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by Andrea B.

[anonymously]

I would never give a dog apple cider, it’s acid….It gives me heartburn, lol.
I presoak my senior’s kibble in tap water and this seems to work for him as he doesn’t have much left for teeth.

My dog with the sensitive stomach does well on the Nutrisca because it is a limited ingredient food and has small kibble.
I recently tried her on Orijen and she vomited a little up, I suspect because it is larger kibble, higher in calories and has more ingredients. So, back to the Nutrisca for her. My youngest dog likes the Orijen, I may keep him on it (as a base).
I add a splash of water to their meals and a topper.

PS: Ask your vet if Pepcid would be helpful 1/2 hour before a meal once a day.

[Andrea B]

Did any of your dogs suffer from acid reflux? When you say sensitive stomach – what do you mean?

We already do the Prilosec once a day a few hours before his last meal. Pepcid did nothing for him when we tried it a few years ago. I guess we just need to go back to the vet again and keep pushing for more answers.

[anonymously]

My little poodle mix regurgitates her kibble whenever I try a new kibble or feed her veggies or fruit, so I stopped doing that. She never got diagnosed with acid reflux but I would call it that or a sensitive stomach. She also has environmental allergies but has responded well to treatment by a specialist.

Carrots are hard to digest, they work as a low calorie snack for some dogs, but it is not unusual to see them in the dogs undigested. So, I’m not surprised at what you described. Actually dogs don’t digest raw carrots but if they agree with the dog otherwise, and in small amounts, it doesn’t harm them. Obviously they don’t agree with your dog.

[theBCnut]

This may be a symptom of a food intolerance and a food change may be in order. Yes, giving acid blockers long term is harmful. That’s why there has suddenly been a rash of shyster lawyers offering to sue if you have been using them long term. Try eliminating grains for a while and see if that helps, then try eliminating chicken. Good luck. There are about 20 ingredients my dog can’t have.

[anonymously]

I meant to say it is not unusual to see undigested carrots in the dogs feces.

My neighbor’s dog has been diagnosed with acid reflux (occasional) the vet thinks it may be related to seasonal allergies? She gets prn Pepcid from time to time and gentle baths.
The allergies are mild and have not required other treatment, so far.
I give my dog prn Pepcid once in a while if she regurgitates and I think it helps.
Anyway her dog does well on Fromm kibble

[aimee]

Hi Andrea,

Here is an article on persistent licking http://www.journalvetbehavior.com/article/S1558-7878(11)00122-5/fulltext?mobileUi=0

From that article it looks like the licking is a non specific GI sign. I’m pretty sure I read the full text of that article at one time and the treatment trialed was a veterinary prescription low fat limited ingredient diet along with an antacid.

Doing a well done food trial as one would do to rule out food “allergy” is something you might want to discuss with your vet.

[anonymously]

You mentioned you have a health care insurance plan for your dog. I would ask his veterinarian for a referral to a board-certified Veterinary Internal Medicine Specialist, as you have been going back and forth to the vet for years (as described in your previous post) and the dog has not responded to the treatment prescribed by them.

In fact, if it was my dog I would insist upon it, I would speak to someone in a higher position if I had to.
When you have a serious issue that has not been resolved or shown adequate improvement by the regular veterinarian in a reasonable amount of time, I recommend seeing a specialist.

PS: Your vet can fax his records to the specialist…or you could obtain copies, they might be available online, a lot of vets have portals now, like with our medical records.

[Joyce B]

I agree with BCnut – that it’s a food issue. My dog had the same thing, and when tests came up normal my vet said maybe it’s seasonal allergies. They recommended Pepcid and it helped a little but I stopped it because of the harm it can cause. They never once suggested a food intolerance. I investigated that myself thanks to reading the posts here. My personal theory is that a food that the dog is sensitive to causes inflammation in the digestive tract, causing the irritation from stomach acid, etc., particularly on an empty stomach. When you eliminate the foods causing the inflammation, which I was finally able to do, stomach acid doesn’t bother them (whatever the season).

[Andrea B]

Thank you all for your feedback. I reached out for a referral today. I will make a stink until I get him to a specialist. Hopefully that won’t require too much fighting but if it does, it does. I absolutely want to get him off the Prilosec as soon as we can, but want to do it safely with minimal discomfort.

If its a food issue at the root cause of everything, can an internal medicine specialist assist in that diagnosis/finding the right food or is that always more of an independent trial and error process for most?

[anonymously]

Of course they will make recommendations or they may refer you to a veterinary nutritionist, they may even work with one.

In the meantime, that Nutrisca Salmon and Chickpea I mentioned has no chicken, no grain and the specialist approved of it for my allergy dog, even though I never had her tested for food allergies, he said it wasn’t necessary as food allergies are rare and her allergies appeared to be environmental.

I get my dog food through chewy.com, check them out for prices and delivery, I like the auto ship.

PS: My vet said that the Nutrisca was similar to an elimination diet because of the limited ingredients.

[aimee]

Hi Andrea,

For my dog with GI issues it was a combination of evaluation by the internist and trial and error food trials.

Between the tests at the regular vet and the ultrasound by the internist many causes were ruled out. Intestinal disease was suspected as the root cause based on the ultrasound findings but there were some pancreas changes as well.

The internist at this point recommended food trials over biopsy, at first eliminating all treats and using limited ingredient OTC foods. I did a trial with California Naturals chicken and rice and later lamb and rice. I kept a journal of symptoms as GI symptoms can wax and wane and we wanted to track in a more objective manner. I don’t remember how long I had him on each diet before changing I think about 6 weeks. The first two changes, no difference was found. Next we went to a vet therapeutic limited ingredient food and signs then resolved.

If I were to do it again I probably would approach a trial like I would for food “allergy” meaning taking an inventory of everything he had been exposed to and then taking in consideration common cross reactions choose a veterinary therapeutic diet for the trial.

I’m not a fan of using a hydrolyzed version of an ingredient the dog has been exposed to but I know of several dogs now with G problems that have done very well on hydrolyzed diets of an ingredient novel to them.

[anonymously]

Just another thought, that licking odd things that you describe could be something that is not related to his GI issues or allergies, it might be neurological, who knows…
That is why a thorough evaluation is in order.
You have to get a correct diagnosis first, before you can evaluate your treatment options.

Of course there is concern about overdiagnosis and overtreatment, but your dog is uncomfortable, so, I would go to the best and hope for the best.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by anonymously.

[Susan]

Hi Andrea, I understand what you & your poor dog is going thru, my Patch has IBD (Stomach) + Helicobacter-Pylori, he gets BAD acid reflux to the point he was crying whinging wanting me to rub his stomach & pancreas area…Vet just says its his IBD his stomach there’s not much I can do except put him on Steroids (Prednisone) I finally gave in
to vet after 1 yr saying NO to steroids & tried 5mg Prednisone & it made poor Patch vomit feel sick & diarrhea so vet said cut in 1/2 gave 2.5mg, for 2 days then I would stop for 2 days it seem to stop his stomach pain but he still felt nauseous & kept licking & licking mouth & front paws…..

Have you ever had an Endoscope + Biopsies done?? to see if he has the Helicobacter infection?? ask vet PLEASE do biopsies for the Helicobacter as soon as they take the triple therapy meds it kills the Helicobacter that’s living in their stomach wall their acid reflux goes away…. Then the Helicobacter comes back aaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrhhhhHHHHH
I’m learning so much thru poor Patch & so are Patches vets, we are finding once we kill the Helicobacter then diet is the answer so it doesn’t come back again, a diet low in carbs, low fiber & Gluten free & no beet pulp in the kibble…
I tried a raw diet thru a Naturopath but Patch was regurgitating the raw, water kept coming back up into his mouth when he burped, then Patch would get his acid efflux, I think the digestive enzymes digested the raw meat to quick….

Stop feeding the Hills vet diet I/d, Patch was put on the I/d Low Fat Restore & it made his acid reflux worse…. all vet diets are high in carbs, grains, by product meats, beet pulp, fermentable carbs that feed the bacteria in the gut & are responsible for gut inflammation, gas, bloating etc.. certain foods are no good for Acid Reflux, Helicobacter, Gerds, IBD, Dysbiosis, SIBO & IBS….

As we get older we make less & less Hydrocloric Acid in the stomach, (google Hyprochlorhydria) chances are your dog has the Helicobacter..Patch is a grinder he starts grinding his teeth when he has his acid, He was taking Losec 10mg morning & 10mg at night 12 hours apart doesn’t really matter before food after food….
Zantac needs to be taken 40mins before food….there’s a stronger Pump Proton Inhibitor that works quicker called Lansprazole (Prevacid) but I don’t know if dogs can take it I’d say they can cause they can take Losec & Somac also maybe ask vet can you change to Somac(Pantoprazole) Somac is more for Oesophagus & Barrett’s Esophagus so maybe the Somac may work better I’ve tried both Losec & Somac with Patch & the Somac stopped his burping
& reflux more then the Losec..I was given 20mg Somac daily for 2 weeks..but he starts to get a fermenting smell coming from his mouth when Patch is on a PPI’s Somac& Losec for more the 1-2 weeks so I start reducing over 3 days then stop I’ve never had Patch on a PPI for more then 2 weeks..
DO NOT just STOP giving a PPI, once he’s been on a Pump Proton Inhibitor (PPI) for more then 21-28days, you need too slowly reduce the dose, that’s what I’m doing at the moment, I’ve been on Somac for 13yrs, 80mg a day, Patches stomach vet that did Patches
Endoscope & Biopsies told me PPI are no good & wouldn’t put Patch on any PPI, I was allowed to give Patch either the Somac or the Losec for just 4-5 days. when he has bad acid reflux or when he takes the Triple Therapy meds for helicobacter then he’s on a PPI for about 2 weeks…then I have to stop & only give Liquid Mylanta…The liquid Mylants seems to work the best instantly he has relief…You can give the Losec & the liquid Mylanta I was with Patch…Patches other vet wrote me out a script for Losec & said just give it to him, but I do what the Gastro vet wants never give him Losec or Somac for more then 2 weeks..

After a few diet changes Patch acid reflux went away I was in SHOCK 2 yrs of acid reflux
on & off…
I had just given Patch the Triple Therapy, Metronidazole, Amoxicillin, Losec then I started feeding Taste Of The Wild Pacific Stream & now I feed the TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb for breakfast & lunch & a cooked meal chicken breast & Sweet Potato for diner, I put the cooked Chicken breast pieces & sweet potatoes thru the blender I digest the food as much as I can.. Why the TOTW kibble worked & stopped his acid reflux was there are no NO GRAINS cause the fat is 15% I was told keep Patch on a low fat diet 8-10% fat but with any kibbles when the fat is real low the carbs are real high if you can start cooking lean white meats like Fish, turkey, Chicken etc the protein is lean & not to rich.. I bought Canidae Pure Land Bison about 1 month ago the fat % was the same as TOTW Roasted Lamb 15% but the protein & the Kcals Per cup were higher then the TOTW Roasted Lamb Patch got his real bad acid reflux back again so I’m learning kibbles Kcals per cup have to be lower the 360Kcal per cup & the protein has to be around 27%max protein..
I have found kibble is the worse to feed I’ll feed Patch his cooked meals all day then the next day I’ll feed the kibble & he will get acid reflux some of the days I feed his kibble also soaking kibble in water made Patch acid reflux worse vet told me to stop soaking his kibble in water & the acid reflux stopped..
I’ve tried Live Probiotics & Digestive Enzymes there’s 2 types of enzymes the probiotics made Patch feel sick & the Digestive Enzymes made him feel sick as well he was eating grass like a cow when I added the digestive enzyme capsule to his meal….
Dogs with EPI have their food soaked in different Enzymes so make sure you look into the difference in enzymes….

[anonymously]

In my experience, a veterinary specialist does not do any more testing than is necessary, due to their expertise they are able to zero in on the problem and be selective about what’s important to rule out first.
And, they will explain each test, reasons for it and go over the results with you.
Remember, only a veterinarian that has examined your dog can diagnose and prescribe treatment.
Be leery of homeopathic remedies, such as supplements and over the counter medications.
You could cause more harm.

PS: Mail-in saliva and hair tests tend to be inaccurate and food sensitivities can fluctuate (if you read the fine print they recommend repeating the test from time to time)

[Nancy C]

Hi Everyone,

I’m new to this forum and discovered it this morning in searching for an explanation for my dog’s early morning vomiting.

Daisy is a 65 pound, 2.5 year old Yellow Lab who has had quite a history of intestinal problems , especially during her first year. High fever, diarrhea, and vomiting, yet the vet could not find a cause. X-rays, lots of different meds, lab tests – no clear cause. She seemed to gradually grow out of it, except for episodes of many days of frequent early morning vomiting of a very thick, mucousy, bile. Like it was scheduled, between 3-5 AM, she’d be salivating, licking, swallowing, starting to retch, etc, and I’d LEAP out of bed and race her to the yard, where she’d just pee and not vomit! I started giving her a burger bun at 2AM when I’d make my own trip to the bathroom, and that seemed to help. She’d improve for a while, then relapse.

Daisy gets 3 cups of dry kibble, split into three meals (soaked in water), with the last cup given between 8-9PM, and we’re usually up by 5 AM on a working day, which is when she’d get her first meal of the day.

She’d been doing very well for a long time, until recently. I’d been giving her a daily canine probiotic for many months, but ran out about a week ago. For the past three mornings, she’s vomited right back on schedule! I’ll be starting her back on the probiotics today, as soon as I get them.

I don’t know if the probiotics will make the difference, but that’s the only change in the past week, so it makes sense. I buy them from Drs. Foster and Smith online, and have never had a problem with any of their products (today’s purchase will be from a local pet store), so will order more.

I feel like I’ve tried everything recommended by anyone, including all the vet prescriptions, sensitive stomach diets, meal scheduling, lab tetsts, etc., and the only thing that helped long term was the probiotics. Wish me luck!

[Susan]

Hi Nancy, you don’t mention what kibble Daisy is eating?? please change her kibble & stop soaking in water, I use too soak Patches kibble in water but I would drain all the water out as much as I could once the kibble was soft but Patches acid reflux seem to get worse with water & draining the water, then I read that kibble soaked in water can bring on acid reflux cause they are licking up the water & eating, I did so much research with my boy, he finally had an Endoscope done & 2 biopsies… Endoscope & biopsies is the best thing you can do to see what is happening in Daisy stomach, is it the Helicobacter Pylori? is it an ulcer? is it GERDS does she have IBD probably sounds like IBD…
I finally found a kibble that agrees with Patch it digest easy, “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain, Roasted Lamb, at first I started Patch on TOTW Pacific Stream, Smoked Salmon & Patch acid reflux all disappeared probably cause the fiber in The TOTW Pacific Stream is only 3%-fiber, they need a lower fiber % when they have acid reflux also lower fat diets & low carbs diets….I also do a kibble test, get a cup or glass & put very warm water in & add 2-3 of the small kibbles that she’s eating or your have just bought or a sample, a good kibble will float to top of water & it should soften within 40mins….just squeeze kibble with fingers at 20mins if kibble is not soft all the way thru, then with the 2nd kibble squeeze at 40mins & see is it soft yet….. You don’t need to soak kibble in water when it its easy to digest, as soon as she eats the kibble it will digest easily & pass out of the stomach & not sit in her stomach causing acid reflux…
If you haven’t tried TOTW Pacific Stream Smoked Salmon get a small 2kg bag & give it a go also Patch is doing the firmest poos he has ever done since eating TOTW kibbles…or try the TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb it has no Garbanzo beans if you live America the Pacific Stream Smoked Salmon has Garbanzo beans, it only took me 3 days to introduce the TOTW kibbles to Patch but take the usual & 7 days & introduce properly.. here’s their site to look at the ingredients. http://www.tasteofthewildpetfood.com/#home
I don’t know if its the Purified Water but something in the TOTW seems to work for Patches stomach, maybe cause it’s grain free (sweet Potatoes) & the added probiotics??…. Be careful with some grain free kibbles, do not get any kibbles with Chick peas, Garbanzo beans, Lentils, these all will cause acid reflux….
If Daisy doesn’t get better then give her an ant acid medication, I ended up putting Patch on Losec 10mg every morning now I give 10mg Losec morning & 10mg afternoon before dinner but I’m seeing my Gastro Dr in 1 month & I will ask him am I better off giving Patch 20mg Losec of a morning only 1 tablet a day instead of 1/2 the Losec, I take 1 morning & 1 before dinner a different brand, Patch has a good vet but I have found when it comes to drugs, human Drs seem to know more then vets do, probably cause we can tell the Drs what makes us feel better or worse… I suffer with Acid Reflux GERDS & its awful & its what you eat that can causes you to have a bad day….
Also walks, make sure she doesn’t get over weight & I walk Patch after he eats breakfast & dinner it moves things along & helps them digest their food & I hear him doing farts sometimes lol. Patch eats 4 small meals thru the day 7am a cooked meal, 12pm-Kibble-1/3 cup, 5pm-under 1 cup Kibble & 8pm-1/3 cup kibble-TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb..
I hope Daisy is feeling heaps better very soon…if the probiotic was controlling Daisy acid reflux & making her better then I’d say she has the Helicobacter-Pylori & cause you stopped the probiotic the Helicobacter has taken over it happens with me & I drink those Yakult probiotics for 1 week then I’m fine again, I also give Patch some of my Yakult as well, Daisy she needs to take the triple therapy antibiotics change her diet & then when triple therapy meds are finished they take 3 weeks put her back on the probiotic.. Metronidazole (Flagyl) kills the Helicobacter & feed a grain free low carb diet, not tooo high in protein around 25%..that’s why its best to have the Endoscope & Biopsies done & you’ll know what’s happen but if you do the Endoscope stop the Probiotics 3-4 days before Endoscope/Biopsies is taken, so they will see the Helicobacter starting up..

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