[Hound Dog Mom]

It’s really not that bad once you get used to it – it can be intimidating at first though. Sandy had a good suggestion with gradually incorporating a little raw until you get more comfortable. Also keep in mind my recipes are bit more complex because I choose to balance the nutrients without the addition of synthetic vitamins and minerals – you certainly could simplify a recipe with a multi-vitamin. i.e.) 1 lb. boneless meat + 1/4 lb. cooked veggies + 1 multi-vitamin + 800 mg. calcium + fish oil – using this general recipe you could provide variety by rotating between different protein sources (turkey, beef, chicken, etc.) and adding “extras” such as yogurt or eggs on occasion.

[carolsch]

Some products such as Darwin’s raw frozen food provide the guaranteed analysis of vitamins and minerals in grams per 1000 kcal ME. Since the amount of calcium and phosphorus is important for large breed puppies, I’m hoping someone knows an easy method to convert grams per 1000 kcal ME to dry matter.

[carolsch]

I have found a few products such as Darwin’s raw frozen food where the guaranteed analysis of vitamins and minerals is given in grams per 1000 kcal ME. The amount of calcium and phosphorus in dog foods are important to know for large breed puppies. I’m hoping that you can discuss how to compare products that provide nutrients in this way. Hopefully there is a easy calculation to convert grams per 1000 kcal ME to dry matter.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I’ve seen it it and checked out the website but I’ve never personally used it and don’t know anyone who has. Looking at the CJ formula it appears the ingredients beneficial for the joints are glucosamine, omega 3’s, cetyl myristoleate, MSM, boswellia and hyaluronic acid. These ingredients are all great for the joint support and inflammation however I personally wouldn’t use the product because it contains soy flour, molasses (sugar) and loads of synthetic vitamins and minerals. I’d rather purchase the ingredients individually through a human supplement provider and not have all the extra stuff.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi acs379 –

Nope, there’s nothing specific about excess fat that will cause developmental issues. Many veterinarians and breeders just tend to recommend lower fat foods because they generally have a lower calorie count per cup and they feel that it will be less likely that the dog will consume too many calories. However, as long as portion sizes are controlled it doesn’t pose an issue. My experience with my hounds has actually been that I have difficulty keeping weight on them – they tend to be on the thin side if anything, so for me it’s been really important to use more calorie-dense foods.

First off I would like to say that it is wonderful that your breeder is recommending the inclusion of fresh foods. Many breeders and veterinarians don’t recognize the importance of fresh foods. Fresh meat, plain yogurt and eggs are wonderful additions to dry kibble – they boost the protein levels and the species appropriateness. Adding eggs and boneless meat will also help to reduce the calcium to phosphorus ratio of the food as they’re high in phosphorus but low in calcium. Just be sure to keep the unbalanced extras to approximately 20% or less of the meal or you could skew the calcium to phosphorus ratio too much and potentially throw off the balance of the other nutrients in the food. Canned foods and dehydrated foods make great toppers too, if feeding a balanced canned or dehydrated food with appropriate calcium levels you can add as much as you want, if feeding a food with higher calcium levels or an unbalanced canned topper follow the 20% rule. Tripe makes an excellent topper – especially for large and giant breed puppies, the reason being that tripe has has a naturally balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio (1:1) but very low concentrations of both minerals (only about 0.3% if I recall correctly). So feeding tripe will dilute the overall calcium levels without the risk of throwing of the c:p ratio. When Gertie was a pup she ate THK and I generally fed her 4 C. THK + 1 can Tripett (canned green tripe) daily (and some fresh additions like eggs, plain yogurt and tinned sardines a few times a week). Mabel started right off on raw and ate raw green tripe as about 25% of her diet for the first 6 months to keep her calcium levels low. Another benefit to tripe (if you can get it raw) is that it’s loaded with probiotics and digestive enzymes.

I generally recommend not supplementing with vitamins (unless per veterinarian recommendation) for those feeding a balanced commercial food, however vitamin c and vitamin b are water soluble vitamins so they are not harmful in excess, if you wanted to add them it shouldn’t cause any problems. The problems arise with certain minerals and fat soluble vitamins as these can be harmful when consumed in excess. Because balanced commercial foods already contain vitamins and minerals adding additional vitamins (fat soluble) and certain minerals could potentially result in toxicity. I would definitely not supplement with vitamin d or calcium – vitamin d is a fat soluble vitamin and adding calcium would likely throw off the calcium to phosphorus ratio and high levels of calcium are what need to be avoided for large and giant breed puppies.

Now onto discussing the Science Diet Adult Maintenance recommendation. I see many breeders recommend putting large breed puppies directly onto an adult maintenance food and this is extremely poor advice (imo) and often based on faulty logic. The reason breeders typically recommend adult foods is because adult foods tend to be lower in fat and calories than puppy foods – from the previous discussion we know that this isn’t an issue as long as portions are controlled. Feeding a puppy a food designated for adult maintenance puts the puppy at risk of not getting enough fat, protein or certain vitamins and minerals. SD is extremely low in protein – to be honest I wouldn’t even feel comfortable feeding a food that low in protein to an adult dog, let alone a growing puppy. I don’t ever recommend feeding foods with less than 30% protein (for adults or puppies) and the SD only has 24.5% protein. Also, if you go to SD’s website and read the product description for the adult maintenance food you’ll notice they state “Not recommended for puppies, pregnant or lactating dogs” – this is because dogs in their growth phase or in the stressful phase of pregnancy or lactation need high levels of protein, higher levels of fat and higher levels of certain vitamins and minerals. I personally wouldn’t ever feed or recommend any Science Diet Products. I would recommend checking out some 4 or 5 star foods with appropriate calcium levels. It’s also better if you rotate foods, don’t stick with just one – dogs need variety. I’d say at a bare minimum have three go to brands (preferably made by different companies and with different protein sources) and rotate through them. Rotational feeding has benefits including fostering a diverse population of gut flora, mitigating the short comings of feeding any one single food (no food is perfect) and providing alternatives in the event of a recall or formula change.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[theBCnut]

This enzyme supplement would do nicely
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-premium-digestive-enzymes-180-tabs

[acs379]

Hound Dog Mom, thank you for being so thorough in your answer! It clears things up quite a bit; the article discussed briefly that the fat percentage should be at a lower level but did not go into specifics as for the health implications of excess fat. I just wanted to confirm that there was nothing about excess fat SPECIFICALLY that would cause health issues (i.e. like excess calcium). I’m thinking I can start with Nature’s Variety Instinct and Orijen, because they both have good nutritional stats, good ingredients from what I understand, and seem to be used with success by other owners who have posted. If you have any other suggestions for foods, please let me know! I was planning on supplementing with fresh food (i.e. hardboiled eggs, yogurt) and canned food (i.e. tripe) as well as digestive enzymes to help aid in the digestion of the dry food.

I do have a few follow-up questions. Here’s my situation: I’m getting a German Shepherd puppy in a few weeks (yay!). It’s coming from a well-known breeder, who made some nutritional suggestions based on years of experience with multiple vets. They suggest, “Puppies from 8 weeks to 1 year should be fed Science Diet Maintenance, fresh meat, yogurt, and boiled eggs.” However, Science Diet Maintenance has extremely LOW ratings on this site, as well as negative reviews from other posters on this site. This really concerns me, and I’m curious as to why they would make that particular suggestion.

In addition, they make suggestions for vitamins as well: 1,000 mg Vitamin C a day and a multi-vitamin and a B complex capsule once a day. In the research I did, the only supplements mentioned were calcium and Vitamin D. Do you see any issue with giving the suggested 3 vitamins?

Thanks so much for your help! You’ve provided so much valuable information and have also had to guide further research for me.

[InkedMarie]

You’re welcome! Also, HDM gave me a list of joint supplements with ingredients to help with inflammation; the one I chose was Joint Mobility plus from Swanson Vitamins.

[InkedMarie]

For dogs with arthritis, grain free is best. If he’s overweight at all, look t Wellness Core reduced fat.
For the sensitive tummy, have you tried probiotics & digestive enzymes? I use probiotics from Swanson Vitamins (for humans) called Dr Langers. I think they’re buy one, get one free. For digestive enzymes, I use Mercola brand.

[pugmomsandy]

Chicken feet is a staple at ethnic grocery stores. They usually have pig feet too. Getting a human supplement might be cheaper per dose for joint supplements. You can also buy bulk green lipped mussel. I get Jarrow True CMO from swansonvitamins(dot)com and also use Actiflex 4000. I get the horse version because I don’t like the beef flavor in the dog version and give a very small amount. This is from folks in my local raw feeding group:

Under 25 pounds:
½ tsp. daily loading dose for 5 days
¼ tsp. daily maintenance dose
>
25-50 pounds
1 tsp. daily loading dose for 5 days
½ tsp. daily maintenance dose
>
50-75 pounds:
1 ½ tsp. daily loading dose for 5 days
¾ tsp. daily maintenance dose
>
100 pounds
2 tsp. daily loading dose for 5 days
1 tsp. daily maintenance dose

[InkedMarie]

Starbright,
Thank you for adopting your girl. I hope she continues to blossom. My go-to food when a dog needs to lose weight is Wellness Core reduced fat, feeding her the amount of food for what she *should* weigh. A good joint supplement is needed; I use Joint Mobility plus from Swanson Vitamins. It’s human, fine for dogs. Also, salmon oil. I prefer just salmon oil, nothing else; I get mine from Vital Choice,

Good luck!

[InkedMarie]

I use Digestive enzymes by Mercola Healthy Pets and probiotics from Swanson Vitamins, human ones by Dr Langer

[yevincent]

Thanks, hound dog mom!!! you are a life safer!-dog saver?;)
I know tripe is good food, but here is what I concern: if I mix dry food and trpe in meals, like 50% and 50%, my dog can definetely have enough calorie, but he may need more Vitamins and Minerals?(the 50% from tripe has more protein, but less other content) Like you said, “Green tripe is high in protein and naturally has a balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio but contains very low levels of each (only about 0.3% calcium on a dry matter basis if I recall correctly). ” Will my dog get less calcium and develop some health issue?
thanks!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi lauriesten –

The himalayan salt is to add some sodium – I prefer using himalyan or sea salt over regular table sale as these salts also provide some trace nutrients. Sodium is actually an essential mineral, many people know that it’s harmful in excess but it’s also harmful to be deficient and most homemade diets are rather low in sodium. I order the fruit concentrate capsules from Swanson’s Vitamins sold under “Super Concentrated Multi Fruit Concentrate.” Fresh fruit could definitely be utilized and I occasionally do add fresh fruit, although I’ve found that this supplement provides my dogs with some of the antioxidant benefits of fresh fruit without as much of the carbohydrates and sugars.

[Anonymous]

Hello, Has anyone ever tried the Nature’s Farmacy diet? Where their food is prepared at home and then you add all the supplements & vitamins they need depending on their health needs. (Sold from Nature’s Farmacy.) I have heard good things from friends. My Vet has never heard of them though. I hope someone here has some honest news please? Thanks for any help you can offer in advance…

[NectarMom]

I have a few questions. I know my dogs cannot handle high fat in raw and I am going to keep them on Brothers Turkey and Egg as the main diet and they have been back on Brothers for 6 weeks but they just smell so yeasty even though they get their tea tree and aloe baths and they are itchy and chew the heck out of their feet. I know since our Pancreatitis episode we have to get past the Candida yeast again since antibiotics but I feel if I just start them off slowly on lean young beef with Steves topper for the added vitamins mixed with the lean young beef that they might benefit from that quicker than just being on kibble 100% of the time?? I would order it from My Pet Carnivore. They just smelled so different than when on kibble. Am I trying to fix this sooner or do you feel this would be ok to try in small amounts?? Please I seriously need some help here.

[bruno]

Hi Amy, you probably have dozens of foods to try, yet I would like you to check out another one: California Gold Small Dog Pet Food, from Pugzoo.com. You did not mention your breed. This was formulated for pugs by an extremely knowledgeable pug person, but it is good for all breeds, just a bit more expensive (quantity-wise) if you have a large breed. It is one of the few that is truly completely natural, no processing at all–just grains, vegetables, minerals and vitamins. There is an introductory offer for first-time customers and free shipping. They also have a digestive enzymes product and no recall. Thanks!

[pugmomsandy]

Yes probiotics (preferably a multi-strain probiotic) will help with gas. Also digestive enzymes. I give both to my kibble feeders couple times a week. I don’t believe Nutrisource has had recalls. You can find this in stores and online. It’s mid-priced. $50 for 30 lbs and is mid-protein range. I feed the grain free recipes to my foster dogs. They don’t have gas issues with this food even though some of them don’t get supplements. For probiotcs I have mercola brand and Dr Langers by Swansonvitamins. I also give kefir sometimes instead. It’s in the milk section at the grocery store. Some people make their own kefir too.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Something like this would be fine – 1/2 tab. per day would have just about the perfect amount of calcium and they’re pretty cheap (a 200 ct. jar so it’d last the year for her):

swansonvitamins.com/twinlab-dualtabs-200-tabs

[InkedMarie]

HDM: hope you read this today since Swansons is having a free shipping today….if I get Gemma a dog multi with calcium, is 200mg daily of calcium enough? looking at this:

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/pet-naturals-daily-best-dogs-45-chews

[InkedMarie]

” If you find that the increased amount of boneless is the only thing that makes her pass stools, you could continue with what you’re doing however I’d recommend adding a multi (it would be the simplest thing to do to ensure balance). I’d give one at about 1/4 of the recommended human-dose of one that would provide about 100 mg. calcium for that dosage. It’s just with 75% of the diet being un-balanced foods I’d be concerned about her getting adequate levels of vitamins and minerals.” from HDM

I know it is here, somewhere, on some thread but can you or anyone else tell me what a recommended multi is? Not a chewable unless I can crush it up.

I believe we will be going back to Darwins when I’ve exhausted most of what I have for boneIN.
My head is spinning with information however and I am confused as to what I do for a mix (of Darwins and boneLESS). Are you saying that if I use Darwins as my boneIN, I can add the boneLESs as I have been and just add the multi?

What if I want to do a mix of foods, with raw, canned and dehydrated? Do I still need the multi? This won’t come for awhile, need to exhaust most of my Hare.

Sorry if I;m being dense.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Okay so if you’re feeding 3.3 oz. total and 2.2 oz. of that is boneless and 1.1 oz. is Darwin’s that would mean 2/3 of her diet is unbalanced – factoring the tripe and herring (without doing the exact math) that means probably about 3/4 of her diet is unbalanced. If you wanted to keep the balance you would have to keep the un-balanced extras (the boneless meat, tripe, herring) to 20% or less of the meal which would be, as Patty calculated, 0.66 oz. of extras per day. If you find that the increased amount of boneless is the only thing that makes her pass stools, you could continue with what you’re doing however I’d recommend adding a multi (it would be the simplest thing to do to ensure balance). I’d give one at about 1/4 of the recommended human-dose of one that would provide about 100 mg. calcium for that dosage. It’s just with 75% of the diet being un-balanced foods I’d be concerned about her getting adequate levels of vitamins and minerals.

[pugmomsandy]

That’s quite a broad statement. Meat and eggs do not make a complete diet. Dogs also need bones and organs and even green tripe has some vegetation in it. Fish (of course there are certain ones to avoid) is also good to incorporate into their diet. Also these days, the meat from our feed animals and farmed fish are not very healthy so certain vitamins and essential fatty acid supplementation can be necessary.

[pugmomsandy]

Swansonvitamins(dot)com, as Patty mentioned above, also has Immunel Colostrum Fraction with Transfer Factor. I would avoid if possible applying topical meds like flea/tick products if you can too since they are pesticides and affect the immune system unless you have some that don’t contain pesticides (ones made with essential oils).

[LckyNmbr12]

Hello, I recently rescued an american bullador pup (american bulldog/lab mix) who has demodectic mange. He is currently taking ivermectin (I know this can be dangerous but he doesn’t appear to be having any issues or reactions from it), and because he is young, my vet doesn’t think he will have any issues overcoming it with the medication and itch-relief shampoo. However, I want to ensure he gets better as soon as possible, and I hope to prevent further immune system issues. Has anyone had experience with this? Can anyone recommend any supplements or home remedies that will help get him and keep him healthy? I’ve seen there are various multivitamins aimed at immune-boosting, as well as other supplements such as colostrum. I’ve also seen that fish oil, specifically salmon oil, can be extremely helpful in mending and maintaining his skin and coat. Any advice? Thanks!!

[Anonymous]

Always keep your dog healthy with dog vitamins & supplements products from BFFPuppy.com. We offers a huge varieties of dog vitamins and supplements.

[lassiebaby]

My Lassie cross breed of Jackrussel and Beagle is suffering from atopic dermatitis. We have tried steroids and other medicines which gives only temporary relief. We have approached a New Vet who recommended DERMOCOOL HC SPRAY and diet comprising of RABBIT MEAT, TAPIOCA with SAFFLOWER OIL. I wonder whether this diet will provide her all the vitamins necessary for her body. Until now, we used to give her lamp meat, rice and SCIENCE PLAN food.

[Hound Dog Mom]

My local pet food store recently started carrying this too – I didn’t look too much into it because for some reason I was think it was HPP…but I don’t see anything about this on their website. Judging by their website it appears that it’s made with very high quality ingredients and that the company has a great system of quality control protocols in place. The two things that would prevent me from feeding this brand exclusively is that every formula contains pork – I don’t like continuous exposure to the same protein source, I think it increases the odds that the dog will develop a sensitivity to that particular protein source. The other thing I don’t like is that it relies heavily on synthetic vitamins and minerals to supply necessary nutrients. All it contains is meat, bone and pumpkin so they have to add a vitamin/mineral pre-mix to balance it. If they were to include organ meat and other nutrient-dense whole foods (i.e. a great variety of fruits and vegetables, eggs, “superfoods” like kelp, alfalfa, etc.) they could rely less on synthetic supplements and, if they were really careful about their formulation, eliminate the need for synthetic supplements all together. Ultimately, it looks fine to use in a rotational feeding plan with other brands but I wouldn’t recommend feeding it exclusively.

[Hound Dog Mom]

As long as the homemade portion is 20% or less of the meal you don’t need to worry about balancing it. If you plan on feeding more than 20% of his diet as homemade food you’ll need to balance the recipe. Add a variety of fresh cooked and pureed vegetables , pureed fruit (don’t go overboard, fruit is high in carbohydrates) and fresh minced herbs (parsley, cilantro, etc.). To balance the fats in the turkey add 1 tsp. flax or chia oil or 1 tbs. ground flax or chia seeds (provides essential fatty acids without contributing to the level of linoleic acid which is already high in poultry) per pound of turkey. For dogs with cancer the recommended dosage of fish oil is the amount that provides 300 mg. combined EPA and DHA per 10 lbs. of body weight – so for your dog you’d be aiming for around 1,200 mg. combined EPA and DHA daily (most fish oil capsules have around 300 mg. combined EPA and DHA). If you’re feeding predominantly homemade, I would recommend making one of the capsules a vitamin a and d rich quality cod liver oil (I like Carlson’s brand). I would definitely feed eggs once or twice a week – cage free are best as they’re higher in omega 3’s and vitamins such as d and e. I would supplement with around 100 IU vitamin e daily (could give a higher dosage 2 – 3 times a week). You want to add 1 ground eggshell per pound of meat to balance the calcium to phosphorus ratio. I’d also add a whole food supplement comprised of nutrient rich “superfoods” – you can buy pre-made supplement’s (such as Nature’s Logic All-Food Fortifier, Dr. Harvey’s E-mune Boost, Wysong’s Wild Things, etc.) or make your own. I make my own, I buy bulk ingredients from human supplement stores – the current blend I’m feeding is 1 part kelp, 1 part spirulina, 1 part alfalfa, 1 part wheatgrass and 1 part bee pollen. Whole food supplements will help supply vital trace nutrients. Lastly, I would recommend switching up protein sources often. Is there a reason you’re looking at feeding only turkey? If your dog doesn’t have any sensitivities it’s best to feed a variety of poultry and red meats (if you’re feeding red meat use hemp seeds/oil instead of flax or chia).

[GSDsForever]

Here are the ingredients for the Timberwolf Ocean Blue Platinum I recommended:

1st 5 Ingredients: Herring, Salmon, Dried Salmon, Chickpeas, Ocean Fish

*Fish are wild caught Alaskan, no Ethoxyquin.
**Food is low temperature steam/pressure cooked at 200-225 Degrees, max 10-15 minutes.

Herring, Salmon, Spray Dried Salmon, Chick Peas, Ocean Fish, Spray Dried Whitefish, Sweet Potatoes, Olive Oil, Salmon Oil, Dried Organic Kelp, Dried Saccharomyces Cerevisiae, Herring Oil, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Thyme, Anise Seed, Fenugreek, Garlic, Ginger, Mango, Blueberries, Cranberries, Whole Carrots, Dried Celery, Dried Parsley, Dried Lettuce, Dried Watercress, Dried Spinach, Lecithin, Choline Chloride, Minerals: [Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Iron Amino Acid Complex, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Calcium Pantothenate, Potassium Iodide, Sodium Selenite], Vitamins: [Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Niacin (A Source Of Vitamin B3), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin (A Source Of Vitamin B2), Folic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (A Source Of Vitamin B6), Thiamine Hydrochloride (A Source Of Vitamin B1), Biotin (A Source Of Vitamin B7), Citric Acid (A Source Of Vitamin C), Mixed Tocopherols (A Source Of Vitamin E and A Natural Preservative)], Prebiotics: [Chicory Root (Inulin)], Probiotics: [Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Lactis Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Subtillus Fermentation Product], Papain, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Beta-Carotene, Fructooligosaccharides, Taurine, L-Carnitine, DL-Methionine, Lemon Juice, Rosemary Extract (A Natural Preservative).

[mah4angel]

Okay! I know that table scraps every now and then isn’t a bad thing, but I always thought it should be avoided on a regular basis so that their diets maintain balance.
I also know that fruit and vegetable seeds are not good for dogs because they contain cyanide.
I’m glad he likes bell peppers, then! It might be a great alternative to traditional treats and a great source of vitamins 😀

[Hound Dog Mom]

You could try adding a limited ingredient venison-based canned food, dehydrated food or raw food to make the dry more palatable.

Canned Options:
-EVO Grain-Free 95% Venison
-Canine Caviar Green Venison Tripe
-Natural Balance LID Venison & Sweet Potato
-Addiction Venison and Apple Entree
-Wysong Venison Au Jus

Dehydrated Options:
-Grandma Lucy’s Artisan Venison
-Addiction Fig’licious Venison Feast

Frozen Raw:
-Primal Canine Venison Formula

Also, another dry food that’s venison based and limited in ingredients to possible try would be Addiction’s Viva La Venison.

All of the formulas I mentioned contain venison as the only protein source and some of the canned formulas contain only venison and no other ingredients (aside from vitamins/minerals) so they shouldn’t trigger any sensitivities.

I would also recommend supplementing his diet with a high quality multi-strain probiotic supplement and digestive enzymes to help strengthen his digestive system. A spoonful of pumpkin with each meal during the transition may help as well.

[satobrinn]

While dogs with specific medical issues may be affected by too much protein, by and large recent research suggests that the notion of having too much protein is a myth both for senior dogs as well as for puppies. Dogs thrive on quality protein and it should makes up at least half of your dog’s diet, the remaining ingredients falling into place at various ratios. One of the most important aspects of a dog’s diet is variety. Healthy humans typically follow the same basic idea, and we benefit from rotating the sources of our nutrients by having different meals every day. By following general guidelines about fat intake and activity level we can stay lean and healthy while getting the nutrients we need. I think the biggest mistake we make when feeding our dogs is getting stuck in a pattern of feeding the same foods repeatedly. Vets don’t always have a great handle on nutrition, but speaking to your vet about your dog’s overall health and lifestyle is a good place to start if you’re really concerned about too much protein. Providing all the minerals and vitamins is more of a challenge in home cooking than determining the protein amount, and then you have to decide if you want to use synthetic sources or natural sources. Find a pyramid that makes sense for your dog and switch it up.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi NetG –

I would strongly advise against heating kibble. Many vitamins, minerals and amino acids are heat sensitive and you would be damaging the omega 3 fatty acids. If your dog is healthy, you shouldn’t be concerned about salmonella. I have fed my three dogs raw for nearly two years – during that time span I’m sure they’ve inevitably consumed contaminated meat, they’ve never gotten sick. Dogs, by nature, are scavengers and have the appropriate digestive system to accommodate the bacteria found in “ripe” food. I’m not suggesting anyone knowingly feed their dog contaminated food, but unless the dog is immune compromised it would be very unlikely for a dog to show clinical symptoms of salmonella. Rather than finding ways to eliminate salmonella in the dog’s food, you should be concerned with washing your hands after handling the food and washing all bowls the surfaces the food touches – because you and your family are susceptible. You may also want to look into purchasing food from a more trustworthy company than Diamond if salmonella is such a concern for you – there are many other budget-friendly dog food not made by Diamond.

[InkedMarie]

I have used products from Mercola and Swanson Vitamins. Both are very good but I will use the Swanson ones simply because of the cost.

[soho]

Hi ashylynn

Natures Variety Instinct line of foods is what I would recommend from Natures Variety.

If you are going to feed dry food I consider Orijen and Wysong Epigen 90 to be top of the line kibbles.

You could also supplement whatever dry food you feed with up to 20% fresh, lightly cooked meats. More than 20% would unbalance the vitamins and minerals in the kibble. For the fresh meat stay within the same meat groups as the kibble you are feeding, ie: add poultry to poultry based kibble, add red meat to red meat based kibble and so on. Eggs are a great protein and you can add a little to any kibble.

Whenever you change or add something new to your dog’s food remember to start slow. It is much better to be overly cautious when introducing new things than to try to undo a bad reaction to the new food or ingredient.

[Hound Dog Mom]

You’re not looking at the right thing. Swanson’s may sell gentle digest but Gental DIgest is not their brand of probiotic and can be purchased elsewhere. Go to SwansonVitamins.com – Swanson’s has two probiotic supplements that I’ve used:

Stephen Langer’s Ultimate 15 Strain Probiotic with FOS. It’s $14.99 for 60 capsules and in addition to 15 strains of probiotics has FOS (prebiotic) and trace minerals.

Swanson Ultra Soil Based Organisms. It’s $9.99 for 90 capsules, has 4 digestive enzymes, wheat grass, oat grass, barley juice, a vegetable concentrate blend, trace minerals and 15 strains of probiotics.

The more strains of probitoics the better. Different probiotics have different functions and you want a diverse population the gut.

[ellie06]

Whenever I cook for her, I use one pound of ground meat, usually turkey. I also add around 1/4 cup peas, carrots, and rice. I give her 21st Century brand multivitamins. I do not give her any extra sources of vit E or omega-3’s, though. She gets two meals per day; 1/2 cup in the morning, 1/2 cup in the evening.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I wouldn’t consider ubiquinol an essential supplement, but I also wouldn’t worry about oversupplementing by giving it. The concern with oversupplementaion is generally only a huge concern with synthetic vitamins and minerals. Ubiquinol definitely has a lot of benefits although I wouldn’t bank on it eliminating plaque build-up. I’ve heard it promotes dental health, but if brushing and RMBs aren’t doing it I doubt this will. Ubiquinol is the reduced and active form of CoQ10 – fresh meat (especially fish and organ meat) is naturally rich in CoQ10.

[pugmomsandy]

If you could feed her mostly canned food or canned/kibble combo at her age that would be great. They are less processed than extruded kibble and are high in moisture (of course) which is a good thing for all dogs any age. Be sure to get a product that is ‘complete and balanced’ versus ‘for intermittent or supplemental feeding only’ to be sure she is getting vitamins/minerals. A green/superfood supplement is beneficial as well. I’ve used Dr. Harvey’s supplements or similar. My 14 yr old is eating 1/2 cup of kibble with 1 cup of wet food/home made food with supplements (probiotics, green supplement, joint supp) or just wet food. Some sort of fiber of your choice (I use psyllium) will help bulk up her stools. She can have 1 teaspoon of psyllium. Or you can use canned pumpkin or even chia seed for fiber.

[Cyndi]

Thanks again, everyone, for all the info. I’m starting to get overwhelmed again though, lol! It doesn’t take much. I posted a question a few posts back and from what I’ve read, no one seemed to give me a definitive answer on that particular question. I’ll post that part again…. (only because I want to be absolutely sure on what I’m feeding and don’t want to start off wrong…

So, if I kept Bailey on the Deli Fresh, which I feed her in the evenings and she gets 1/2lb. of that, and I started her off with say a chicken back for the first week or so is that ok? I do prefer to feed twice a day and if she will only need like 1-1 1/2lbs of food per day do I need to add anything else? The Deli Fresh is the Chicken, vegetable & rice flavor and I know there is alot of other ingredients and vitamins and stuff in that. Maybe, I’ll switch to the Turkey flavor, if I’m starting her raw diet with chicken…

I’ll also post the ingredients of the Deli fresh/Freshpet that I plan on keeping her on, for a while anyways.

Ingredients:
Chicken, Eggs, Chicken Liver, Chicken Broth, Carrots, Brown Rice, Peas, Rice Bran, Dried Kelp, Carrageenan, Natural Flavors, Salt, Inulin, Flaxseed Oil, Green Tea Extract.

Vitamins:
Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Biotin, Riboflavin Supplement, Manganous Oxide, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid.

Minerals:
Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Niacin, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganous Oxide, Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite.

If I start her on chicken and use a chicken leg quarter or chicken back every day, is that too much bone? I think I may just be over thinking all this, and I apologize for all the questions, but I want to be sure, especially with keeping her on the Freshpet for one meal a day for a while…

Thanks again for all your help everyone! I sincerely do appreciate all your help. I’ve been printing out all your replies and referring back to it all.

[Cyndi]

You guys have been such a big help, thank you!

So, if I kept Bailey on the Deli Fresh, which I feed her in the evenings and she gets 1/2lb. of that, and I started her off with say a chicken back for the first week or so is that ok? I do prefer to feed twice a day and if she will only need like 1-1 1/2lbs of food per day do I need to add anything else? The Deli Fresh is the Chicken, vegetable & rice flavor and I know there is alot of other ingredients and vitamins and stuff in that. Maybe, I’ll switch to the Turkey flavor, if I’m starting her raw diet with chicken…

I AM going to do this! Next time I get paid, I am going to the butcher shop by me and buying the chicken backs and we’re gonna do this! I am determined! The only thing is I’ll probably be here asking another million and one questions…….so be prepared, lol! Thanks guys!!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Cyndi –

It’s wonderful that you’re considering a raw diet for your dog!

Owning three large and active dogs, I can sympathize with you on wanting to keep things cheap. My tips for keeping raw feeding budget friendly would be:

1. Rely on chicken, turkey, pork and beef as your primary protein sources – they’re the cheapest per pound.

2. Rather than feeding boneless meat and supplementing with calcium, incorporate raw meaty bones (chicken necks, turkey necks, etc.) as the calcium source. RMB’s are much cheaper per pound than boneless meat.

3. Rely on hearts and gizzards as your primary source of muscle meat in the diet. While boneless skinless chicken breast might be more appealing to a person, there’s no reason dogs need to eat these expensive cuts of meat.

4. Add things like eggs, cottage cheese, yogurt or kefir to stretch the meal a bit with some cheap but high quality animal-based protein.

5. Avoid pre-ground meats, they’re generally more expensive. Feed meat in chunks or dice it yourself.

6. Buy bulk – try to locate a wholesale supplier. Shop the manager’s specials at the grocery store.

7. Use supplements made for humans rather than for dogs, believe it or not they’re generally much cheaper. I order from Swanson Vitamins (cheap, high quality, big variety).

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi dogmom2 –

I agree with Patty – I think it’s important to feed a variety of “superfoods.” While I’ve never used the Animal Essentials Green Alternative, I have used some of their Animals Apawthecary tinctures and I like the company and feel they make high quality products. I have posted a basic recipe for a superfood blend supplement I use – 1 part spirulina, 1 part kelp, 1 part wheat grass, 1 part alfalfa, 1 part bee pollen – however I do occasionally rotate in new ingredients for variety (chlorella, dulse, barley grass, etc.). The only thing I’d like to point out is that by purchasing a pre-made supplement your are paying way more than you need to. I purchase all organic ingredients from Swanson Vitamins in 1 lb. packages, mix them myself and my supplement comes up to around $11/lb. The Animal Essentials product you linked to is over $46/lb. You could save a lot of money by buying ingredients from a human supplement store and mixing your own supplement.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Has anyone used “Healthy Pet Products” brand raw food? I got a 5 lb. roll of the beef I was going to try out. Dr. Mike hasn’t reviewed it but it doesn’t look too bad and the price was reasonable for a pre-made beef-based food ($3.39/lb.).

Ingredients:
Certified Organic, Range-Fed and USDA Beef, Beef Hearts, Beef Lung, Beef Liver, Beef Kidney, Beef Tripe, Ground Beef Bone, Fresh Whole Eggs, Carrots, Celery, Sweet Potatoes, Garlic, Apples, Cranberries, Vegetable Fiber, Calcium, Dicalcium Phosphate, Choline Chloride, Zinc Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Niacin, Iron Sulfate, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Copper Sulfate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Managanous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Biotin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Sodium Selenite.

General Analysis:
51% protein and 25% fat (dry matter)

Not a huge fan of the inclusion of synthetic vitamins and minerals and the fat content is a bit lower than what I’d typically feed my crew but I figured it’d be worth a try and it’d be something different for the dogs (they don’t get commercial raw too often).

[theBCnut]

What people don’t say is why it matters if ice crystals form. The only thing I have been able to find is that water soluble vitamins may be lost in the ice crystals. I feed the ice, melted ice, fluids, whatever. Also a deep freeze is supposed to keep food good longer, ice crystals form when something is cooled to just below freezing and opening and closing the freezer door warms it’s surface slightly.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Kevinh219 –

It sounds like you have a knowledgeable vet – it’s always nice to see a vet recommending a more species-appropriate diet rather than the big name veterinary brands like Science Diet and Purina. 🙂

Rather than looking for a food that has all of these items, I’d suggest just finding a few grain-free puppy foods with over 30% protein that you like and adding the glucosamine, chondroitin and L-carnitine separately. Most supplements present in commercial foods are just for marketing anyways, the food rarely contains high enough levels to have any therapeutic effect. Glucosamine, chondroitin and L-carnitine can all be purchased from human supplement stores/websites – Swanson Vitamins has great prices. Just check with your vet to get recommended dosages.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Cherrie,

In addition to those recommended by HDM, one I use in my rotation that I think is a fantastic value is Dr. Tim’s. I use the Grain Free Kinesis in my rotation and Petflow.com has a 30 pound bag for $56.99 or you can pick up a whopping 44 pound bag of the grain inclusive formula for $63.99. Both are five star foods on DFA.

Another of my favorites is Nature’s Logic. Petflow.com has a 26.4 pound bag of chicken or beef for $57.99. It’s made from whole food ingredients with no synthetic vitamins or minerals and no Chinese sourced ingredients; proteins are either grass finished or vegetarian fed and all are hormone and antibiotic free. Also a five star food on DFA.

Oh, and they both smell nice. : )

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Bigcoco –

1) 30% bone is way too much. As Patty said, bone should comprise 10% of the diet. The calcium to phosphorus ratio needs to be between 1:1 and 2:1 (ideally around 1.2 – 1.3:1). When the diet is 10% bone, 10% organ meat and 80% muscle meat the calcium to phosphorus ratio is right within that optimal range. A diet of 30% bone will be throwing that ratio of balance.

2) I checked out the product website and I can’t see where organs are included in the mixes? All I see is where they state 70% meat and 30% bone. If organ meat is not included in adequate quantities in the 70% “meat” you’ll need to feed organ meat. Organ meat should comprise 10% of the diet – 5% being liver and 5% being other organs (kidneys, lungs, spleen, pancreas, brain, etc.). Organ meat provides crucial vitamins and minerals that aren’t provided by muscle meat.

3) I can’t find where the level of vitamin e in the Bravo salmon oil is stated on their website and often the amounts added to fish oils are too low. I checked out the Pet Naturals of Vermont Daily Best supplement and there is little vitamin e in that either. Small dogs should get 50 – 100 IU per day, medium dogs 100 – 200 IU per day and large dogs 200 – 400 IU per day. Vitamin e requirements increase when fish oil (omega 3’s) is being supplemented, if adequate quantities are not received with omega 3 fatty acid supplementation the dog will eventually develop a vitamin e deficiency.

4) It’s also possible your dog could be deficient in certain trace nutrients – it’s hard telling without a nutrient analysis but because the Pet Naturals supplement is designed to be fed with a complete and balanced commercial food the amounts of vitamins and minerals are very low (as they are with most pet supplements). To ensure your dog is getting all the trace nutrients he needs I’d recommend either supplementing with a human multivitamin – base the dosage off a 100 lb. person (i.e. 25 lb. dog gets 1/4 human dosage, 50 lb. dog gets 1/2 human dosage, 75 lb. dog gets 3/4 human dosage, 100 lbs.+ gets human dosage) – or adding whole food supplements. I prefer to avoid synthetic supplements for my dogs so I feed a variety of nutrient-dense whole food supplements like kelp, alfalfa, bee pollen, spirulina, wheatgrass, glandulars, sprouted nuts & seeds, etc.

“Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown is a fantastic resource for raw feeding. It’s a really great book for beginners – short and easy to understand and includes AAFCO compliant recipes. You may want to checkout this book. It was a constant resource for me when I first started feeding homemade raw.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi cashmyhorse –

If home cooking for your dog is something you’re willing to do and can afford, I strongly feel that a balanced homemade diet utilizing fresh, low glycemic ingredients would be the best option for your dog.

Here is some information on diet and diabetes:

dogaware.com/articles/wdjdiabetesdiets.html

As far as balancing the diet, there is a company called “Balance IT” that has vitamin/mineral supplements designed to balance a homemade diet. There is a recipe generator on their website in which you can enter information about your dog, including any health issues such as diabetes, and a recipe will be created to suit your dog’s needs – check it out at balanceit.com. There are also some pre-mixes with low glycemic ingredients that would be suitable for a dog with diabetes – The Honest Kitchen’s Preference, Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance and Birkdale Petmix. With the “Balance IT” supplements and pre-mixes generally all you need to add is meat and water, all the vitamins the dog needs are in the mix. If you want to feed a completely made from scratch diet, invest in a good book with recipes that conform to AAFCO nutrient standards. My favorite book is “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown. Another great book is “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” by Dr. Becker. Dog Aware has some great tips on homemade diets as well.