[Molzy]

Hello,

First off, thanks for all the help with my previous questions.

I just found out that MPC is delivering near me this weekend, and I can still order by Thursday! But I’m very confused on what to order. At this point I want to stick with ground meat for my dogs digestive issues, so I was looking at their ground whole chicken or chicken super mix. What is the difference? How is the bone to muscle meat to organ ratios on these?

Right now my plan is to start with a pre made raw (bravo), and use MPC meat for part of each meal, so that I know he’s getting the vitamins and minerals he needs. Hopefully I’ll become comfortable to gradually switch. I have purchased and skimmed through dr. Becker’s book and the ancestral diet book recommended here, but both seem to have recipes geared towards chicken thighs or ground meat without bone, so I can’t figure out where the ground whole fits in.

If anyone can help with what a good first order would be, it would be much appreciated! I promise I plan on doing a lot more research, but I feel like I’m at a road block.

Thanks a ton!

[pacer1978]

Can a dog overdose on enzymes? I give my dogs enzymes with each meal since I feed them kibble. I didn’t realize that some dog food already have enzymes in the food such as Nature’s Variety and Nature’s Logic. So, should I still give them enzymes with their meals when I feed them that brand? I switch brands now every few bags as recommended with the understanding that each brand may use specific nutrients, minerals, and vitamins more so than others. So, by switching the brands it ensures my dogs are getting a variety of those things. If I switch between brands, but maintain the same supplements and dosages, could I potentially overdose them on anything?
This is what they get:
Daily: Nordic Naturals Fish Oil for dogs, Swanson’s joint supplement for their hips, coconut oil, enzyme with each meal, and 1 TBS supergreens
Every other Day: Probiotic and Tart Cherry (as part of their superfood). I sometimes will give Mattie a probiotic every day depending on how her ears are…she is kind of “yeasty”.

[rogerharris]

Hi, Sprout Ultra Dog Food is a low budget dog food, which contains 30% Protean, Vitamins & Minerals, It also contains Omega 3 & 6 fatty acids for improved skin & coat condition. But still it doesn’t perform well. I will rate it 1 and 1/2 out of 5.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 1 month ago by rogerharris.

[Melissaandcrew]

Well, I haven’t gotten my books yet, so not sure what is presented in the two books, but since they are supposed to be AAFCO compliant recipes, I am assuming that once I start those, I should be okay. ; ) I do plan on rotating proteins, and still feeding at least partial dry for now, etc etc, so I am just talking about the short term-btw, if I use your recipe that you posted for kelp alfalfa etc, would I also still need a vitamin? I am just looking to avoid buying vitamins etc in bulk until I am sure this is something that is working for the crew.

Love Patty’s coffee grinder idea. I just can’t see myself smashing up 15 doses of vitamins with a mortar/pestal, lol.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Wow Melissa, I’m so happy to hear you’re going the homemade raw route! I don’t think you’ll be disappointed in the results. 🙂

I would suggest getting as many different varieties of organ meat as possible (remember, hearts and gizzards are considered muscle meat not organ meat). Liver should only comprise 5% of the diet and 5% should be “other” organs – the more organs you can get to make up the “other” portion the better. Ask for items like kidneys, lungs, spleen, pancreas, brain, etc. If you can get gullet and trachea these are a great source of naturally occurring chondroitin (good for the seniors’ joints) – not organ meat though. Obviously if you can get green tripe go for it (muscle meat).

The Nupro would be okay to use for a trace nutrient supply but it wouldn’t completely balance the meals. You’re going to want to be sure to add a source of vitamin e and vitamin d (I use cod liver oil for vitamin d). You’re going to want to add some ground nuts/seeds for manganese (I use a combination of sprouted pumpkin seeds/sunflower seeds/flax/chia). I think it’s a good idea to feed tinned oysters once in awhile as they’re a great source of trace minerals like zinc, copper and selenium. I’m also an advocate of small amounts (10% – 20%) of fruits and veggies (I most often use organic greens, butternut squash, broccoli, cauliflower and berries – be sure to puree) for antioxidants and kefir or yogurt for probiotics. Cage-free eggs are a great source of omega 3’s, have a great amino acid profile and will contain some of the b vitamins, vitamin d and vitamin e – I recommend feeding eggs at least once a week. I mix in various fresh herbs like parsley, garlic and cilantro. I also add coconut oil and apple cider vinegar to every batch. The most important thing to keep in mind is that variety is key!

If you are looking for a supplement to “balance” the diets, I’d recommend Steve Brown’s See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix. It makes AAFCO compliant meals and it’s really cheap in comparison to other pre-mixes plus there’s a quantity discount when you order several bags at one. I don’t use pre-mixes too often but it’s my favorite to use when I do. He also advocates adding various fresh ingredients (up to 20%) so you have the freedom to customize a bit while being assured that the dogs are getting a balanced meal. If you want to make your own supplement – buying the ingredients separately definitely is the cheapest route. The pre-made supplements like Nupro are much more expensive. Check out Swanson’s, they sell all the ingredients you’d need and everything is super cheap and you can often get bulk packages (I use a lot of the Starwest Botanicals items in my whole food supplement).

• This reply was modified 11 years, 1 month ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[kimberley]

Mom2Cavs – I checked about a half a dozen of the ingredients…. if I don’t recognize them or can’t say them, I want to at least know what they are. However my list of them is at home, so I’ll get the 3 that were certainly questionable and post the names tomorrow. The one that is also used as a cat litter filler is a common binder, but the vitamins being a powder, why use a binder, and one commonly used for cat litter? No other options??? I only commented on this because the Dinovite site has no bad or even questioning reviews, only the good ones that they post, and sadly nothing out there is perfect. As you stated, this works for your pets, and that’s great for you and your pets, it just didn’t work as well for my dog.
Have a great day! 🙂

[bruno]

I think you may be interested in a formula that would be a compromise between the raw diet and commercial (kibble) pet food. I have one that is Brown rice, pearl barley, dehydrated raw carrots, red & green peppers, brocolli, garlic including a packet of high-end vitamins and minerals. This one takes the time to cook a pot of rice (20-30 min), you add your choice of fresh meat and it makes about 2 weeks worth of food. The other formula is Rolled Oats plus the veggies and so forth. This one takes one-minute to hydrate. Both would eliminate dealing with raw meat and eliminates all the cons of processed food–meat contamination, lack of nutrients from processing and questionable ingredients. If you or anyone is interested in seeing/reading about these formulas please visit California Gold
P.S. I disagree with the responder that stated that raw veggies are not good for dogs. I haven’t had any problems with any of my dog’s customers in over 13 years and raw is good!

[bruno]

Neither Barley or Brown Rice are a problem for dogs. I have a formula that contains just that,
Brown Rice, Barley (it is Pearl), dehydrated veggies, garlic and vitamins and minerals. In the formula I have used both diced and non-diced and none of my customer’s dog have had any problems with this in 14-15 yrs. If you or anyone wants to know more about this formula, or the others ones I have, please visit Pet Food Formulas

[GSDsForever]

In my early morning reading with coffee in hand . . .

From a Cat Lane article on The Possible Canine website:

“2006 NRC Guidelines state it clearly:

Minimal requirement = 2.62 grams per kilogram BW ( to the power 0.75)

Recommended Allowance = 3.28 grams per kilogram (to the power 0.75)

Safe Upper Limit = NONE

Protein requirements are also influenced by various factors such as the dog’s overall condition, the digestibility of the food source, activity level and others. In general, when I formulate a diet for a healthy dog, I use 2 – 3 times the recommended allowance. So let’s take a look at an example. My 75 lb dog. First, take the weight in kilograms – so 34.01 kgs. Next, we take this number to the power of 0.75 – easily done on one’s computer calculator: we get the number 14.08. This is the number that will represent my dog in all calculations from here on in, his metabolic weight. To now find his “requirement” – let’s say, his RA or recommended allowance, all we need to do is multiply his number – 14.08 – by the RA – 3.28.

Here’s what we get: 46.182. That’s the recommended gram weight of total protein for the day. If I were to put this strictly into practice, I would end up with a percentage of total protein probably around 15% I am guessing. So let’s have a peek and see. I’ve formulated a diet for Daniel that contains only 46 grams of protein per day. I will also use the RA for total fat, which in this case would be 27 grams. His caloric needs are 1840 per day, so if I devise a very simple diet of brown rice, coconut oil and turkey, and stick strictly to the RA for fat and protein,I would get percentages like this:

Distribution of calories:

Protein: 11.3 %

Fat: 15.6 %

Carbohydrate: 73 %

I would also be feeding this:

1. Turkey, Dark Meat w/skin, boneless, roasted, diced 0.33 of: 1 cup, diced (46.2g)

2. Grain, Rice, Brown, ckd 7 of: 1 cup, cooked, hot (1365.0g)

3. Oil, Coconut 1 of: 1 tbsp (13.5g)

[Dogs’ reaction to dinner]:

Click on: http://thepossiblecanine.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/hw_dogs_surprised.jpg?w=660”

LOL!!!

Though I kinda thought the picture says it all, she helpfully goes on to say (crusading for all doggies out there, lol):

“That’s right – SEVEN cups of brown rice, and a third of a cup of turkey. This diet technically meets the RA for protein and fat. Of course it doesn’t take into consideration fatty or amino acid levels or vitamins and minerals, this is an exercise to show how there is so much confusion between percentages and actual gram content. I often develop diets for dogs with liver issues where the protein percentage is in the midteens but the gram content is actually over the RA. Vets will want a higher level based on percentage but after we speak they understood that percentages are not the whole story. They tell us how much of a given nutrient the diet contains – RELATIVE to other energy nutrients. In actual practise, I use much – MUCH higher levels of protein and fat in my own dog’s diet as well as professional cases. It’s not in any way optimal to feed a 75 pound dog 1/3 of a cup of meat and 7 cups of rice per day. When we look at the recipe above we also will see that no less than 34 of the 46 grams of total protein come from the rice. So if we were to use more sweet potato than rice we could actually inch up the turkey a bit…. but the poor dog who has to eat so much carb and so little protein! Let’s not forget that from mouth to tail, dogs are carnivores, and derive most quality nutrients from animal sources. I have long defended the use of fiber in the canine diet, because I am not so much interested in what wolves do or don’t eat – on a practical level, at any rate – but in what type of diet is absolutely optimal for the individual dog I’m working with. This always means some fiber, although the type and amount will vary. But all that said, animal products – protein and fats – should form the mainstay of a healthy dog’s diet. This menu I used above as an example is lower than what I’d use for dogs with liver disease,by far – yet it meets the NRC Guidelines for requirements.

To start working out the amount of protein to use (we’ll get to sources later) find your dog’s protein RA first, then in a home made diet, go 2-3 times above that in grams.”

[MaggieM]

Hello,

I have a question about using vitamins and green super food supplements. I just started feeding raw and I think I have the meals balanced between the raw meaty bones and the other half muscle meat, organs and some vegetables, eggs and dairy. I am hoping that this puts the calcium/phosphorus ratio is in a balanced range. I have been adding fish oil for the omega 3s and now I am a bit confused as to what else I should be adding. I know E is needed with the fish oil but I have been debating between just adding the E or just adding a simple multi-vitamin or one of these vitamin/mixes.

Berte’s Daily Blend
EarthOrigins
Dr. Harvey’s Multi-Vitamin
SpiruGreen Superfood

The Berte’s and the EarthOrigins seem to be more of a cross between a vitamin and green blend compared to the others. I have heard so many different opinions I am no longer sure what is really needed. Does any one have any thoughts?

Please help.
Thanks,
M

[pugmomsandy]

1. Is it better to get a premade mix of raw food online or buy meats from the supermarket or meat market? Or is it better to have a mix?

As a newbie to raw, I think it would be better for you to feed a food that is complete and balanced whether that is commercial frozen raw like Nature’s Variety, Primal, Bravo, Stella & Chewy’s, Darwins, and others, or dehydrated/freeze dried raw (but more expensive) food like Orijen freeze dried, Primal, Stella & Chewy’s. Meat by itself is not a good diet. For beginners, I would buy a commercial raw or use a Premix such as Urban Wolf, See Spot Live Longer, Grandma Lucy’s, The Honest Kitchen. You add meat and some oil and that’s usually it. No additional vitamins needed. You can make these in advanced in big batches and freeze in serving sizes or a couple days worth in one bag/container. You can feed up to 20% of an unbalanced food without having to worry about additional vits/minerals. For example, topping kibble with some meat or scrambled egg (but not more than 20% of the meal). As you become more comfortable with raw you can give homemade a try but be sure to use a recipe book.

2. Is ground or whole better? Your dog might like the texture of some chunks, versus ground. But in any case, raw meat has enzymes that also helps keep teeth clean. The ripping of the flesh and tendons from the bone cleans the teeth too. I have small dogs so I use a coarse ground. My dogs don’t have a preference for meat sizes. They eat it all.

3. I keep seeing people talking about feeding bones, including chicken bones… I was always told that chicken bones are dangerous? This is going to be the one that the hardest to get my wife on board with.

Raw bones are edible. The cooked bones are dry and splinter. Also there are recreational bones versus consumable bones. Most small animals can be consumed whole (chicken, rabbit, quail, turkey). But dense, weight bearing bones from larger animals are for gnawing only (marrow bones/leg bones). For heavy chewers, they can break teeth. For instance, my small dogs eat chicken legs, turkey and duck necks and feet and pork baby back ribs. They gnaw on beef/bison rib bones and marrow bones/femur for the enjoyment and it keeps their teeth clean. I feed these outside and don’t worry about cleanup when the weather is nice. You can train your dog to eat bones in the house on a towel, blanket or tarp. This winter, I’ll be feeding my small dogs in a crate or I could feed them on the bathroom tile and mop.

4. Do you need to add supplements to these meals? If so are they included in the premade mixes or am I adding them?

If you use a complete and balanced commercial premix, no additional supplements are necessary. Although there are a lot of people who give whole food supplements like supergreen foods (chlorella, kelp, barley grass, etc), bee pollen, and herbs, a complete vitamin E.

5. What is the best site for ordering?
I’ve heard Chewy.com is good. I’ve always used Petflow and amazon.

6. Does someone have a schedule or process I can literally follow to the letter?
Sorry, I am sure this has been answered over and over again but I would really appreciate the help. I am not too concerned about the cost as Wellness and Core are not cheap, however if I can pre-make these and feed her in the morning because we are often in a rush and it’s so hard to get her to eat kibble before we leave.

At my house, they eat raw if I have it thawed out. If not, they get other foods (kibble, canned, freeze dried). Darwins comes in convenient packaging and serving sizes and most commercial products come in patties or small bite sizes or chubs (which are the least convenient for me). You just have to remember to thaw! You can put 3 days worth out to thaw in the frig. I also use dehydrated foods (The Honest Kitchen, Addiction) where I just add water and let sit. I make some ahead of time and put it in the frig. But these are not raw.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 1 month ago by pugmomsandy.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 1 month ago by pugmomsandy.

[pugmomsandy]

Tripe has a high fat content. I would feed with caution if your dog has had a problem with high fat before. For an easy homemade raw (while your taking the time for alot of research) there are some premixed you could use like Urban Wolf, The Honest Kitchen, Grandma Lucy’s. You generally just add meat and oil. I just used CarnivoreRaw (from Young Again Pet Food) on my last batch of raw. It has vitamins, minerals, etc.

[JLezinsky]

Hi Everyone,

I gave up on trying to find a pre-made raw after the Sirius food had all sorts of negative issues. Since then I have been trying to figure out the best way to make my own. Here is what I am planning on doing to start with. I would love to get any feedback because I really respect the knowledge of everyone here.

a.m.
Ground Beef/Tripe/Organs and Bone
(alternating between the Tripe Super Mix from MPC and Ground Beef/Organs/Tripe/Bone mix Hare Today)
Eggs (every other day)
Sardines (opposite the eggs)
Krill Oil (Mercola Liquid Pump) (every other day)
Dr. Harvey’s Multi-Vitamin/Herbal Supplement and SpiruGreen Superfood (rotating between the two)
Multi Vitamin (½ tablet daily)
Coconut Oil
Turmeric

Veggie/Fruit Mix a few times a week

p.m.
RMB’s
Rotating between chicken necks, back, feet and turkey necks and backs.
Also occasionally adding some chicken gizzards, hearts and livers.

I am still nervous about calcium/phosphorus ratios and vitamins. Is a multi-vitamin ok with this? If so what multi-vitamin tablet (so I can split it) would you recommend? Please let me know if this looks balanced or if I should add or adjust things.
Thanks everyone, I appreciate any help.

[gsdmommy89]

Hi there everyone. I know this is a puppy thread, and I do have a GSD puppy ( with monstrous paws so I knew he’ll be large!), but I do have a question that maybe someone here could answer. Aside from my puppy, I also have his mom, a 3 yr old GSD. She’s been eating the Earthborn Coastal Catch, but I can’t seem to get her to put weight on. During gestation and nursing, I fed her Earthborn Puppy Vantage. She used to be around 68 lbs. I weighed her yesterday she’s down to 59 lbs. I spoke to my vet, which also monitored her during pregnancy, and she told me that maybe I need to try something with grains in it. She’s been fed a grain free diet pretty much all her life, except when I fed her the Puppy Vantage. The vet told me she’s probably just taking longer to recover from nursing, as she didn’t find anything abnormal. She also told me to try adding Missing Link, to add vitamins or something like that. My dog isn’t bony, but you can tell she is underweight. I was thinking of switching both my GSD’s to Fromm Large Breed puppy. Maybe the puppy formula has more calories and fat so she can gain her weight back? I don’t know. If anyone can give me some advice, I’d really appreciate it. Food? Supplements? Thanks a million!

[theBCnut]

If you are adding 20% or less you don’t need to worry about balancing the vitamins and minerals, but if you are adding more than 20% you do need to make sure it is balanced. A leg quarter would definitely be more than 20% of 2 cups + 1/2 can. You do have a little leeway with that as long as your calcium/phosphorus ratio is OK. I’m not sure if a leg quarter would need a little extra meat added or not, it would be pretty close. I would still add a half dose of some kind of animal derived omega 3, maybe a half dose of vit D and E, and some kind of superfood at the very least.

Hound Dog Mom would be a good one to get her opinion on this.

[Shawna]

Hi bullterriermom,

The link Hound Dog Mom provided is a REALLY REALLY good article on glandulars. I use Dr. Lee’s protomorphogen / glandulars on my dog that has had kidney disease since birth. She is seven years old, unmedicated besides glandulars and whole food vitamins etc. Dr. Lee’s company is called Standard Process. Excellent products.

However, some refer to anything outside of allopathic or western medicine as quackery etc. So I wanted to provide you with data supported by allopathic medicine. It is referred to as “oral tolerization”. They have studied it as a treatment for rheumatoid arthritis http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0889857X05700247

As well as in helping the body not reject transplanted organs – specifically the liver http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10706554 Autoimmune heart disease (unfortunately the paper isn’t pulling up for me today but the link is here and may work for you or tomorrow?) http://lib.bioinfo.pl/paper:19353248  A round about way to see the data is here http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Dlj-FH1tQ8YJ:lib.bioinfo.pl/paper:19353248+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

And, the New York Times has a nice article on oral tolerization called “Hair of the Dog” http://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/18/science/hair-of-dog-tried-as-cure-for-autoimmune-disease.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

[theBCnut]

They don’t have to add supplemental vitamins if they are putting in whole foods that contain those vitamins, so I would still be wondering what you need to add. If you are still feeding half kibble or another raw that is complete and balanced, then I wouldn’t worry. But as a stand alone, I want to know that everything is in there. I would use it, but I am still feeding half kibble.

[emchide]

Hello again everyone,

I’m not sure this will be of more than speculative interest to most of you, unless you also live in the the greater Baltimore metropolitan area, but I think I’ve found a very appealing raw food source at a great price point. Any insights or thoughts will be appreciated, but it seems this company at the moment isn’t shipping product at all and is only available locally. Nonetheless, I am excited by the affordability/quality intersection as I see it.

Dogs Gone Wild

Currently offering one pound chubs, beef marrow bones, turkey necks, and chicken necks at one of the smaller, locally-owned pet stores (Howl, Dogma, and Bark!)- I have two others to explore and see if more variations are available. The PetCo and PetSmart stores nearby don’t carry DGW.

Chicken: 70% chicken / chicken bone
20% vegetables – broccoli, kale, carrots
10% organ meats
$2.50/lb

Turkey: 70% turkey / turkey bone
20% vegetables – green beans, carrots, yellow squash
10% organ meats
$2.65/lb

Beef: 70% beef / beef bone
20% vegetables – butternut squash, green beans, kale
10% organ meats
$3.05/lb

Duck: 70% duck / duck bone
20% vegetables-butternut squash, carrots, zucchini
10% organ meats.
$4.00/lb

Lamb: 80% lamb / lamb bone
20% vegetables – zucchini, carrots, parsley
**was out of stock**

Chicken & Veggie Mix Crude Protein (min) 12% Crude Fat (min) 10% Crude Fiber (max) 2% Moisture (max) 72%
Turkey & Veggie Mix Crude Protein (min) 12% Crude Fat (min) 5% Crude Fiber (max) 2% Moisture (max) 76%
Beef & Veggie Mix Crude Protein (min) 14% Crude Fat (min) 10% Crude Fiber (max) 2% Moisture (max) 70%
Duck and Veggie Mix. Crude Protein (min) 14% Crude Fat (min) 5% Crude Fiber (max) 2% Moisture (max) 75%
Lamb & Veggie Mix Crude Protein (min) 11% Crude Fat (min) 25% Crude Fiber (max) 2% Moisture (max) 61%

When thawed, the grinds look very appealing and fresh – softer and looser than my only comparisons, the FreshPet Vital refrigerated chubs which are firmer in texture and ~$6.00/lb.

I expect a significant contributor to their pricing involves not having supplemental vitamins included and thus not being certified as a complete food or whatnot. I’m curious about the perspectives of the knowledgeable members here.

• This topic was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by emchide.
• This topic was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by emchide.

[terriers4life]

OK. I’ve lurked on this forum for quite a while. I now feel the need to speak up. Dinovite for dogs, which is a product I have used for many, many years for many, many dogs is a high quality whole food supplement. Read the ingredients folks. Good source of vitamins, omega fatty acids, probiotics, enzymes. There’s nothing in it that will cause a dog to have blood in their urine or to get sick, unless there’s something the dog is allergic to. And how the heck would you (or they-Dinovite) know this? It’s sort of like saying “Don’t feed organic, natural peanut butter to your kid, because mine had an allergic reaction to it.”

Seriously, “check with your vet”? Yeah, the one who advises you to buy his dog food (which is garbage, even according to this website) and who would rather you give your dog steroids for life? Give me a break. When was the last time your vet gave you advice about feeding your dog…that was good for him? Vets are not trained in nutrition…well, barely. How long does your dog have to be on steroids for you to realize they are destroying his internal organs? And if steroids or allergy shots were the answer, then WHY DOES THE DOG STILL ITCH or HAVE BALD PATCHES???

Find a 5 star rated food (a Dinovite rep actually pointed me to this site to help me choose a better dog food) and add Dinovite. Get your dog off the darn steroids.

Even the absolute best commercial dog food is heat processed. So enzymes, probiotics and so many vitamins are destroyed. So your dog is walking around with these deficiencies. And you can’t fix that with steroids, creams, sprays, ear cleaners, antibiotics. Use common sense people.

I was a huge skeptic. But in 2009, I had 4 dogs who had some pretty messed up skin and ears. I was feeding a good food (rated 5 stars here) and still so much $$$$ at the vet (and listen folks, not once did a vet offer any money back for crap that didn’t work. In fact, I just kept coming back and spending more. Try this…no, try this…maybe try this…and spending so much money.) So I got enough Dinovite for my worst case. And I used it for a few months. It took about 3 or 4 months but slowly, I began to see a difference. It was really apparent as my other dogs were still just awful.

After a few months, I took my dog in the car, and no stinky smell…no shedding. No bald patches. No butt scooting.

The rest of my dogs have been on this now since then too. I left the country for 4 weeks and had a friend stay at my house. She never added it to my dog’s food. I came home to one of my dogs kinda stinky and the shedding was back. Never again. My dogs won’t go without. Ever. Period.

I have even used this on every foster dog I have had come through my house. And they have all benefitted from it. I send some with each dog when they leave here. I’ve seen some pretty bad skin problems and yeast problems get under control using Dinovite (and I use the fish oil or the other omega supplement too).

And, I actually tried one of their newer products (a different vitamin in a tube). It was supposed to be the same as the one in the box but in a thick like paste. My dogs didn’t really like it much so I went back to the powder. And I sent back a bunch of the tubes. Two were actually empty and 4 were unopened. I got my money back no problem. With a smile.

[somebodysme]

I would absolutely just feed one thing until you are sure that’s OK and then just add one new thing at a time. That’s what you should do for an allergic dog, it’s called an Elimination Diet. It’s the only way to be sure what he’s allergic to. Do NOT discount the idea that the vegetables can be the issue. I just discovered that my dog is HIGHLY allergic to peas and I’m pretty sure green beans too! I had tried to give her some garden fresh green beans and she had a reaction the next day. They are both Legumes.

I would not give any vitamins or supplements etc during your Elimination Diet either because they can also be allergic to those!

[InkedMarie]

Why won’t you use the human form? Alot of us use Dr Stephen Langers from Swanson Vitamins. Human ones are more closely regulated and dog ones aren’t.

[Hound Dog Mom]

If you read the ingredient list you’ll see that Greenie’s are a highly processed and unhealthy product. MOst people recognize the importance of avoiding processed foods for themselves and their children, the same is true for dogs.

The ingredients are:

Wheat flour, glycerin, wheat protein isolate, gelatin, water, rice flour, oat fiber, pea protein, potato protein, lecithin, natural poultry flavor, apple pomace, tomato pomace, minerals (dicalcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, magnesium amino acid chelate, zinc amino acid complex, iron amino acid complex, copper amino acid complex, manganese amino acid complex, potassium iodide), ground flaxseed, choline chloride, decaffeinated green tea extract, sodium copper chlorophyllin, vitamins (dl-alpha tocopherol acetate [source of vitamin E], vitamin B12 supplement, d-calcium pantothenate [vitamin B5], niacin supplement, vitamin A supplement, riboflavin supplement [vitamin B2], vitamin D3 supplement, biotin, pyridoxine hydrochloride [vitamin B6], thiamine mononitrate [vitamin B1], folic acid)

These are basically grains (gluten containing grains nonetheless), vegetable proteins and synthetic vitamins/minerals/amino acids. Why not feed your dog some real food with dental benefits? Raw meaty bones or natural chews like pig ears, bully sticks or dried tracheas. If you insist on feeding a processed dental product I’d at least recommend checking out Zuke’s Z-Bones – while they’re by no means a health food, they’re much better (ingredient-wise) than Greenies.

[Larissamichelle513]

I also feed my dog (60lb black lab/hound mix) Earth’s Pride Pet dry dog food and she is doing GREAT on it! I do also add a nupro supplement to insure she gets all her vitamins but from the research I put into finding her a quality, not to highly priced adult food it looks like the canned equivalent is a good choice. What you want to see in a dog food is meats listed first, thus the chicken, chicken broth and chicken liver would make up the highest percentage of ingredients in that canned food. You dont want to see anything like corn or corn syrup listed in the first few ingredients. This canned food also seems to have a lot of fruits and vegetables which is a good sign, and brown rice is an easily digestible carb for most dogs (again much better to see than corn). In my opinion I would say this is an above average quality canned food for your dog. I think it’s on par with a lot of the higher priced wet foods you find at pet stores. Dog Food Advisor does have a review for the Bj’s dry dog food if you wanted to take a look… /dog-food-reviews/berkley-jensen/

[VictorR]

I have been using their Miracle Pack probiotics/enzymes and Spectrin For Dogs liquid vitamins on both my dogs for over a year now with terrific results.

I initially got the probiotics/enzymes for my 12 year old Pit Bull who had 9 months of recurring diarrhea from having been on antibiotics for 2 months as the result of an infection. It seemed like she couldn’t digest any kibble, no matter how expensive. I then moved her to steamed rice/sweet potato and grilled chicken or canned tuna. Even that eventually stopped working. Eating just white rice and chicken, he stool was runny and orange.

Within 2 weeks of adding Nusenta’s products to her food, she was back to normal. I now feed her Sojos grain-free dog food mix with cooked ground hamburger or turkey for a more complete source of nutrients. Sojos is a fantastic product, nothing but freeze dried vegetables and fruit and a few other natural ingredients to aid health:
Ingredients:
sweet potato, carrots, broccoli, celery, apples, whole egg, cranberries, tricalcium phosphate, flax meal, parsley leaf, carob powder, dried kelp, dried alfalfa, ginger root, garlic, sunflower oil, vitamin D3

[theBCnut]

It has 24% protein, which is pretty low. It has brown rice, oatmeal, pearled barley, and rice hulls, too many grains, too much starch. And a long list of added vitamins that I would rather see from the inclusion of real foods since they are better utilized that way.

[somebodysme]

OH yes, sounds just exactly like my dog with allergies too. She’s a “lab mix”…AKA no one knows!

The vet did the same thing. What I did was go with a limited ingredient diet. I have her on Nature’s Variety LID Turkey which is doing an adequate job of keeping it under control. Remember that everything he consumes can contribute, not just their dog food. Treats and rawhide etc. even vitamins and supplements. People food…it can all cause problems.

Really the antiboitics help heal it up but then it just will come right back because they are killing the dog’s immune system.

I chose the NV food because it had the least amount of ingredients and not potatoes of any kind. I don’t even want her on sweet potatoes either.

Does he stink like strong cheese? If so that is yeast too so you don’t want a food with too many carbs or it will get worse. You’d also want to give a probiotic.

Just out of curiosity, what are you feeding him now?

[Bill Rogan]

Hello!!! Beagleowner? Hope you feel better than before because your dog is gradually progressed.

You should bring diversification in you dog food menu. You should ensure that the diet you feed meets your dog’s requirements. It’s important that the diet you feed your dog is “complete and balanced,” meaning it meets all of your dog’s nutritional needs. It is not important, however, that every meal would be completed and balanced, unless you feed the same meal every day with little or no variation.

Following are the guidelines for feeding a raw or cooked homemade diet to get a healthy dog. No single type of food, such as chicken, should ever make up more than half the diet.

You should keep the followings in your consideration while cooking your dog food. Proper balanced dog food includes:

Meat and other Animal Products:

Raw meaty bones (optional)
Boneless meat
Fish
Organs
Eggs
Dairy

Fruits and Vegetables:

Starchy vegetables
Leafy green and other non-starchy vegetables
Fruits
Grains

Supplements:

Calcium
Oils
Fish oil
Cod liver oil
Plant Oils

Other Vitamins and Minerals:

Vitamin E
Iodine
Green blends

Hopefully you be benefited. Best of luck of you with your beloved dog.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Here are the best I know of:

https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-probiotics-dr-stephen-langers-ultimate-15-strain-probiotic-fos-60-veg-caps

https://www.swansonvitamins.com/lee-swanson-signature-line-ultimate-probiotic-formula-3-pack-3-30-ct-bottles-veg-caps?otherSize=SWL008

https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-soil-based-organisms-90-caps

https://www.swansonvitamins.com/garden-of-life-primal-defense-180-cplts

http://shop.mercola.com/product/complete-probiotics-powder-for-pets-90g-per-bottle,266,91.htm

[theBCnut]

These were the ones that HDM thought would be good.

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/new-chapter-tiny-tabs-whole-food-multivitamin-192-tabs

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/twinlab-daily-one-180-caps

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/country-life-daily-total-one-maxi-sorb-60-veg-caps

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/carlson-super-2-daily-180-sgels

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/solgar-formula-vm-75-180-tabs

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Shihtzumom –

The pouched baby foods are fine. I actually use them when I’m short on time. I like Plum Organics, Peter Rabbit Organics, Earth’s Best and Happy Baby. 1 tbs. should be plenty for a small dog – when I give it to my girls I split the pouch between the two of them (they’re 68 – 75 lbs.). Only give the calcium when you’re feeding boneless meat – at the rate of 800 – 1,000 mg. per pound of boneless muscle meat or 1,400 – 1,600 mg. per pound of organ meat. Swanson’s has several wheat grass products available – this is what I use in my green blend: https://www.swansonvitamins.com/starwest-botanicals-wheat-grass-powder-organic-1-lb-pkg . For flax I would suggest adding 1 tbs. per pound of meat, if you can get sprouted that’s better. I order this from Swanson’s: https://www.swansonvitamins.com/navitas-naturals-sprouted-flax-powder-8-oz-pkg . For the Tripett I would suggest mixing in 1 – 2 tbs. with his meal. I’m glad you like Swanson’s – I’m obsessed. I go nuts every time I order from them – I just got a huge box of supplements in for myself! 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

Nupro isn’t a bad supplement however I wouldn’t discontinue the fish oil. The omega 3’s in Nupro come from flaxseed. Plant-based omega 3’s (with the exception of algae and yeast derived omega 3’s) are in the form of alpha linolenic acid (ALA) which is a short-chain omega 3. In order to be utilized by the body the short-chain omega 3’s need to be converted into long chain omega 3’s – docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) and eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA). The conversion process from short-chain to long-chain is very inefficient – I’ve read some sources that state the conversion rate is less then 5%. Animal sources of omega 3’s (cage free eggs and fatty fish or fish oil) and omega 3’s derived from algae or yeast are already in the form of DHA and EPA and don’t need to be converted. Nupro also, unfortunately, only contains 1 strain of probiotic – lactobacillus acidophilus. I do the like inclusion of whole foods in Nupro though. Personally, I think you could do better and likely for cheaper. I would suggest picking either a high quality fish oil or feeding tinned sardines, a multi-strain probiotic (Swanson’s sells some very high quality, reasonably priced probiotic supplements check out https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-probiotics-dr-stephen-langers-ultimate-15-strain-probiotic-fos-60-veg-caps or https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-soil-based-organisms-90-caps) and mixing up a “super food” supplement. I purchase ingredients in 1 lb. bags from Swanson’s and mix them myself, I store them in giant jars in the fridge. Doing it this way is so much cheaper per pound than pre-blended supplements and it allows you to customize the ingredients. The current blend I’m using is 1 part spirulina, 1 part kelp, 1 part alfalfa, 1 part wheatgrass and 1 part bee pollen. I do switch up ingredients occasionally for variety.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Vegetables are a very important part of the dog’s diet and should be included in small quantities. Vegetables supply important trace nutrients are are chock full of antioxidants that are crucial in today’s polluted world and given the toxins that domestic dogs are exposed to on a daily basis (everything from cleaning supplies and exhaust fumes to vaccines and chemical preventatives). Having formulated my own menus from scratch I can say that it would be extremely difficult (actually, probably impossible) to supply a dog with all the vitamins and minerals needed without the inclusion of some non-meat ingredients. As long as vegetables are properly prepared (cooked/pureed) they are highly digestible. I would much rather supply my dog’s with their nutrients through a variety of whole foods than either a) compensate for deficiencies by supplementing with synthetic vitamins or minerals or b) risk sub-clinical deficiencies. About 10% of my dogs’ diet is vegetables, fruits, sprouted nuts/seeds, “superfoods” (wheat grass, spirulina, kelp, etc.).

• This reply was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[pacer1978]

Hello,

I’ve been trying to find a good “Green Food” to incorporate in my dog’s food since they sometimes want to eat grass as well. I was thinking Spirulina or do you recommend more of a green food power? I had purchased Swansons Green Max, but realized it had caffeine in it, which I was told is harmful so that will be returned. Luckily, I haven’t received it yet to start giving it to them. I then found another option, below. If this is recommended over Spirulina, are the ingredients all OK for dogs? I don’t want to end up giving them something harmful that I’m unaware of. Thanks!

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-greenfoods-formulas-super-green-max-plus-9-oz-255-grams-pwdr-SWR067

[somebodysme]

bullterriermom, I haven’t had allergy testing done yet, we are just trying elimination and I’m hoping to find a good food. I put her back on NV LID the Turkey one and she is actually doing good on it and the feet are slowly but surely healing all up. Her rash on her back has magically healed up out of the blue. I really can’t help but think it was demodex and just getting healthy and taking supplements and vitamins have healed up up. I really do not know what caused her feet to flare up.

As far as diagnosis, it was just the vet that told me all her rashes and hair loss and scratching was most likely food allergies and he made some suggestions. It was just up to me to research a good food to start with. He wanted to put her on Iams.

I understand is quite pricey to have accurate allergy testing done though.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Betsy –

Any human multivitamin would be fine, just look for one with very little or no calcium.

I’ve taken this one myself, it’s a bit pricier but the human serving size is 6 capsules so it would be easy to portion out – probably one or two for Bella and 4 or 5 for Sam.

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/new-chapter-tiny-tabs-whole-food-multivitamin-192-tabs

Something basic such as these would work as well.

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/twinlab-daily-one-180-caps

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/country-life-daily-total-one-maxi-sorb-60-veg-caps

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/carlson-super-2-daily-180-sgels

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/solgar-formula-vm-75-180-tabs

• This reply was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[somebodysme]

No not probiotics, she gets the PB8 pill for that and she’s been on those for some time now. The DE I purchased is this one:
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-premium-digestive-enzymes-180-tabs

I had asked in a different thread which DE you all liked and it was suggested to me. I was looking at the Mercola one and the ingredients are very similar to it. She is eating grass like crazy.

I also purchased some Spirulina. Do y’all give this? I was looking for something “green” instead of her eating grass. I’ve tried to give her cooked greens but it just doesn’t seem to agree with her, she threw up when I gave her some cooked kale. She eats the grass like crazy and she never throws up when she eats grass. I wish I knew what the grass was so I could plant some seeds…HAHA! It’s only this one type of grass and she can hunt it out apart from all over grass.

[InkedMarie]

If you mean dr Stephen langers probiotic, I get it from Swanson Vitamins

[InkedMarie]

Regarding probiotics, alot of us use Dr Stephen Langers that we order online from Swanson vitamins. Not sure about a search, if we have one, I don’t know about it!

[pacer1978]

Would this have been a better choice in regards to the ingredients?
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-greenfoods-formulas-super-green-max-plus-9-oz-255-grams-pwdr-SWR067

[Hound Dog Mom]

Synthetic supplements (vitamins/minerals) aren’t necessary when feeding a balanced commercial food however things like probiotics, enzymes, essential fatty acids and super foods are always beneficial. I would give coconut oil at the rate of up to 1/2 tsp. per 10 lbs. (you can give less as well). Nature’s Logic makes one of my favorite pre-made whole food supplements, it contains several supper foods (such as kelp and alfalfa) in addition to nutrient-dense fruits and vegetables and probiotics and enzymes. I actually make my own super food supplements, I find it’s cheaper this way. I buy the ingredients I want in large packages from Swanson Vitamins or Starwest Botanicals and combine them. I generally do something like equal parts kelp, spirulina, wheatgrass, alfalfa and bee pollen but I’ll sometimes substitute other ingredients for variety such as chlorella, barley grass, tart cherry, etc. If you use a pre-mixed whole food supplement designed for dogs there will be dosing instructions on the package. For my homemade supplement I usually do around 2 tsp. per dog (my dogs are 68 – 75 lbs.). There’s generally little concern with “overdosing” when feeding whole food supplements – especially if using a variety of ingredients in small doses.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[pacer1978]

It seems that both of you recommended Swanson’s brand for Probiotic and Enzymes. I’m also thinking of trying a green food of some sort. I guess I’m still a little concerned with going to human supplements since I know there are some ingredients out there that are toxic to pets and I don’t know all of them. If I add the three below supplements, these should be helpful, correct? I can finish up the Dasuquin and Nordic Naturals supplements (designed for pets) before trying the below options. What are your thoughts? Also, if they have been on Dasuquin and it seems to agree with them (no joint issues), should I just keep them on that? The only issue is cost…they are fairly expensive to give to my three dogs. Thanks again!!

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-spirulina-il-4-natural-blue-green-algae-6-phycocyanin-500-mg-180-caps

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-premium-digestive-enzymes-180-tabs

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-premium-glucosamine-chondroitin-msm-500-400-200-mg-240-tabs

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi KatB –

I wouldn’t say Natural Balance ever had a “good” reputation – it was a poor food prior to being sold to Del Monte and I’m sure it will remain a poor food. The formulas are low protein and loaded with peas, potatoes, etc. and the majority of their foods are manufactured by Diamond – an untrustworthy manufacturer with many recalls. I believe NB’s Limited Ingredient Diets were also found to contain traces of protein sources not listed on the ingredient list.

I would recommend adding digestive enzymes in addition to the probiotics. For a cost effective probiotic choice I’d recommend checking out these:

https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-soil-based-organisms-90-caps

https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-probiotics-dr-stephen-langers-ultimate-15-strain-probiotic-fos-60-veg-caps

https://www.swansonvitamins.com/lee-swanson-signature-line-ultimate-probiotic-formula-3-pack-3-30-ct-bottles-veg-caps

How long have the bogs been on Blue Wilderness? Sometimes it can take a week or two for the dog to adjust especially if the dog isn’t used to food changes and is being switched from a lower protein food to a higher protein food (or vice versa).

[pacer1978]

Also, just out of curiosity..I hear that some vitamins/supplements don’t absorb as they should and aren’t high quality. I purchased the 15 strain brand that was recommended from Swanson’s and then read afterward in a review somewhere that it only had 3 billion of the bacteria versus some other high number that it should be. How can you tell a quality brand from another? What makes Swanson’s recommendable?

[somebodysme]

I keep hearing good things about Annamaet Aqualuk or the brand in general. Would this work for a yeasty dog? At this point I really don’t know what she’s allergic to. She had been on the Zign. for two weeks with absolutely no signs of allergies as far as scratching goes and it’s a lamb based food but it contains fruits and vegetables. On the NV LID Turkey she still scratches a little bit but her paws were fine on that and it has pretty much nothing but turkey, peas and tapioca and vitamins. Usually I can tell immediately if something is bothering her because she will begin to claw at her sides like when I gave her a rawhide to test, that happened in two days so I knew.

Another weird thing is she seems to do good until I buy a large bag of food but is fine on the tiny bags. Could there be some difference in the kibble used in large bags? I was thinking that maybe they package them somewhere different OR they may use more preservatives for the food that goes into a large bag? When I bought a large bag of NV, there was a definite difference in the appearance of the kibble..I will attest to that much! It also had a lot of “dust” (ground up bottom of the barrel kibble) in with the food which I was kind of miffed over.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 3 months ago by somebodysme.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Aussie Mom –

I would recommend “See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix” – it’s a combination of whole foods and vitamins and minerals designed to balance a boneless raw meat diet. You add 2 – 4 tbs. per pound of meat and it supplies everything you need (in terms of vitamins, minerals, fiber and balancing the calcium to phosphorus ratio). I’m actually planning on utilizing this mix part time this fall when I go back to school to save me some time – as much as I love doing everything completely from scratch it can really take up a lot of time. You could use this while you’re researching how to do things completely from scratch. There are some other “pre-mixes” out there as well (Urban Wolf, Prefereance, Birkdale, Grandma Lucy’s, Sojo’s, Dr. Harvey’s, etc.). You will still need to add omega 3’s – either in the form of a quality fish oil, fatty fish, cage-free eggs or some combination of these.

If you’re concerned about a correlation between fish oil and prostate cancer I’d suggest reading this article by Dr. Mercola:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/07/31/omega-3-fats.aspx#!

• This reply was modified 11 years, 3 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[SummerRainAussies]

I was looking at the Carlson brand. I read an article that new studies are saying that fish oil can cause prostate cancer in men.. Do you think their would be any of the same risk in a in-tact male dog?

Also I was wondering if it was there is a pill/powder for all the needed vitamins and minerals that i could give that makes the calcium and phosphate levels correct and whatnot. At least until I have the portions of the meat down.
It feels less overwhelming if I could learn in it two phases. LOL

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi ebk –

None of Wellness’ products are manufactured by Diamond. Some of Wellness’ 95% meat and Complete Health canned foods are manufactured by American Nutrition in Ogden, UT. The Simple Stews and the other 95% meat varieties are manufactured by Simmons in their Toronto, ON and Pannsauken, NJ facilities. The majority of their ingredients are sourced from the US however they do source things like lamb/venison etc. from New Zealand and some of their vitamins/amino acids are sourced from China (this is pretty common).

• This reply was modified 11 years, 3 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[SummerRainAussies]

HDM

There are so many reviews to read here! WOW!
I have been reading a lot of your reviews the last few weeks and you are so educational for raw feeding I thought i would join and try and chat with you.
I have been feeding my Aussies pre-made raw such as darwins, and vital essentials. I have always wanted to make my own raw but was afraid of not making it balanced and That and it seems so expensive for my 22 year old self. But am totally willing to spend more on my dogs than myself. I was reading and discovered Hare-today from a earlier post and that seems like a good place. Human grade?
I was trying to maybe find a good book.
I want to maybe start with half homemade than when i get better at it switch to full homemade.

I dont know what vitamins to give and how much.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Yeah I’d go with a heart glandular if the fresh heart grosses you out. Glandulars are just freeze-dried raw organ or gland tissue – based on the idea that like supports like. So a dog with heart issues should eat a heart glandular. Swanson’s has a reasonably priced heart glandular:

https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-premium-raw-heart-glandular-250-mg-60-caps

• This reply was modified 11 years, 3 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 3 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I would give L-carnitine, a glandular and a whole food supplement. Another ingredient very beneficial for cardiac support which is not in the SP supplement which I’d recommend adding is CoQ10. I’d check out Swanson Vitamins for these things – I’m sure it would be a lot cheaper to do it this way than using SP anyways. Another option, Wysong has a supplement called “Carvasol” (which contains CoQ10, L-carnitine and some other amino acids and herbs) sold for humans to support cardiac health, it’s safe for dogs and they have dosing instructions for animals as well – to this you could add a glandular.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 3 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.