[pugmomsandy]

I don’t mind the pseudo grains or some grain as long as they’re gluten free like quinoa and brown rice and millet. And now I’ve started to “sprout” mine before cooking. If you don’t know about sprouting, it breaks up some of the anti-nutrients and activates more healthy enzymes, amino acids, vitamins, etc. I even ordered the 4 Legs of Love sprout blend from here: http://sproutpeople.org/ to add to my dogs’ food. I’ve even got kidney beans sprouting right now for tonights soup. Google “benefits of sprouting” for lots of info. But for kibbles, if it’s gluten free, I’m generally ok with it. There’s only 1 kibble that uses sprouted items and that’s Carna4.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[Jeff33]

I just wanted to say how much I appreciated all the valuable information that everyone has posted on this site. I am a new dog owner..my baby Tioga (English springer spaniel) turns one in a week. I found this site by researching the best type of dog foods available for him. I recently purchased some Orijen red because I thought that was the best food. I’ve since realized that I was wrong and I would like to feed him a raw diet because it’s the healthiest option. I don’t want to make my own raw meals. I’m going with Darwin’s. Here are my questions:

1. Can I feed him Darwin’s (chicken) everyday, without rotating? I thought rotating was only for canned and kibble due to the toxins.

2. Do I need to add anything else to his diet? I know I need to add some bones for his teeth and there are already enzymes in the meat so I don’t need to add that. What about probiotics?

I guess what I’m asking is what is the most basic diet, I was worried that just feeding him Darwin’s isn’t enough, I don’t want him to miss out on any necessary vitamins, minerals etc. due to my lack of knowledge.

Thanks for your help,
Jeff

[mountainhound]

I’ve been feeding raw for about 5 years (mostly pmr and some premade). I’m always rotating protein sources since my dog doesn’t have any digestive issues and tolerates it well. I also like to add fresh whole foods for variety which depends what I have on hand. I tend to stick with certain staples though that I add daily which includes salmon oil for omega 3’s and seameal blend for trace minerals. I also recently started using olewo carrots and beets which have been a huge hit and seem to benefit his skin/coat and prevent counter surfing. He also gets fresh egg couple times a week for additional vitamins or as a treat.

Curious to see what other raw feeders supplement with. Any product you absolutely swear by and why do you use it?

[theBCnut]

Here’s the thing with giving it with food. There are several different things that affect how the body takes up the thyroid replacement, calcium, amount and strength of acid in the stomach, amount of food taken with it, certain vitamins and minerals. You can give it with food, but it needs to be the same food in the same amount, every single time. And thyroid levels need to be tested under those circumstances. Any changes affect the amount of thyroid hormone that makes it into the system. My mom has to take her thyroid replacement with food, because she has other health issue that mean she can’t wait an hour to eat. I take mine, then go do chores on the farm, and an hour later I’m ready for breakfast. Either way is ok as long as you always do it the same way, and the blood tests reflect the way you take it. That’s the only way to know that you’re giving the right dose.

[RescueDaneMom]

Jazz lover,

The general concensus is that it is safe to switch over to a food with higher calcium level at 10 months old. Orijen is a really good food. You could try the Orijen Adult when your pup is 10 months old. I also like Acana Regionals (Grain-free), Annamaet Grain-free, and Petcurean Go! Fit & Free Adult.

I give tumeric and omega 3s (fish or krill oil) daily. I buy my tumeric from Swanson’s Vitamins. You can get organic bulk tumeric by Starwest Naturals on their website. See my previous post to Lablubber for the article on Tumeric and dosage. You can give toppers with every meal. I would limit the fish to twice a week. You can also give eggs (cooked or raw) as a topper. You want to exchange the toppers with his food based on calories. Figure out how many calories the topper has and give him that much less food. Say the topper is 100 cal. Figure out how much food you need to remove based on the kcal/cup provided on the bag or website for your kibble. Ex- you would give 1/4 cup less food if your kibble is 400 kcal/cup. I hope I explained that well enough.

As far as what to look for in a food for your dog at 10 months and after is really up to you. I prefer to feed a high protein (30% or higher), grain-free (though not opposed to grain-inclusive if not fed all the time and high quality grains or pseudo-grains like oats, quinoa, or millet), and china-free ingredients (need to contact the manufacturer). I have fed my Great Dane Orijen, Acana, Annamaet, Earthborn Holistic, and Go! Fit & Free with no problems. Others that I would try if I still fed kibble (I feed raw and dehydrated now) are: Dr. Tim’s Kinesis grain-free, Victor GF Ultra Pro, and Timberwolf.

I hope that helps. 🙂

[Shasta220]

What you’re doing sounds pretty good. The others have definitely given helpful advice – adding various veggies might help give her a boost of nutrients. I give my dogs raw eggs – straight from our hens, coconut oil, ground flax in their treats, fish oil, and multi-vitamins.

[Akari_32]

I have some good coupons for a few brand of human vitamins, and decided while I was on lunch today, I’d head over to the vitamin section and take a look. I was in the market for fish oil, but came across Nature’s Bounty brand acidophilus and was wondering if you guys had ever used it for your dogs. A google search brings up pretty mixed results– yes it’s good, no it’s not enough– so I was hoping to hear what you guys thought, as well as some good priced alternatives.

[beagleowner]

Thank you to all of you who gave advice and remarks about homemade dog food for Henry Beagle. We did, in fact, go through our Vet who approved our dog food recipe plus added vitamins. Henry tore his ACL and was recuperating well. However on Jan. 12 the something happened around 7pm. He was restless, panting and did not eat his evening meal. I stayed with him all nite and he slept a little and we rushed him to the Vet first thing in the morning. Unfortunately both sides of his heart had failed and he was dying. We lost Henry that day. Our vet said there was nothing we did or could have done to prevent this from happening. I am mourning this loss and it is so difficult but wanted to thank all of you who were so interested and helpful in your suggestions and advice.

[pugmomsandy]

I haven’t looked at the recipes you mentioned above, but there are premixes that contain vits/minerals that you can add your own meat/organs and oil to, and they make a complete/balanced meal. Some of these are Grandma Lucy’s, The Honest Kitchen, Urban Wolf, See Spot Live Longer. One site’s recipes (homemadedogfood.com) uses DinoVite and a fish oil to make a meal complete. Dr Karen Becker’s recipe book contains a recipe for a vitamin mix. You’d have to buy some vitamins and grind them up and this can be done in bulk every couple months depending on how much food you make.

[RescueDaneMom]

My rottie just passed last month from lymphoma. When he was eating kibble he did really well on Acana Regionals. There are 4 grain-free varieties. Orijen is another great food made by the same company that makes Acana. Other grain-free foods we tried and liked were: Annamaet grain-free, Horizon Legacy, Go! Fit & Free Adult, and Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural. Others I like but haven’t tried personally are Dr. Tim’s Kinesis grain-free and Victor grain-free.

Sometimes dogs eating kibble (and especially older dogs) can benefit from probiotics and digestive enzymes. I buy mine from swansonvitamins.com. They’re made for humans and pretty cheap. I get the regular Swanson brand digestive enzymes and Dr. Langer’s 15 strain probiotic (they’re buy 1 get 1 free right now). I crush the enzyme tablet and open the probioic capsule and mix it up in the food. You can add a little canned food, yogurt, canned pumpkin or something else so it is not just powder mixed with dry food. My almost 8 year old Great Dane is super regular and not very gassy at all. He doesn’t eat kibble but he gets probiotics and enzymes. A lot of people also like the Mercola pet enzymes and probiotics. They are more expensive but they are already in a convenient powder form.

Hope this is helpful to you.

[Akari_32]

Another update 🙂

I’ve introduced the Purina One Beyond to Haley’s diet, one of the small bags to the rest of her food. Totals about 15 pounds of food– it did, anyways. Its been a few days, and I *think* Dweezle got into it, because I don’t think I’ve used half of all that food since I added it! He’s not been wanting to sleep in the bed room, and I heard him snooping around in the kitchen the other night… Plus he’s looking a bit pudgy lol

I also added the last bag of the Wellness CORE Ocean Fish to the mix. Anyways, she’s doing good on the One Beyond, so I’ll add the other small bag soon, and when thats done, she’ll be on half Wellness CORE Original, and half One Beyond. I may actually do more like 60/40, CORE and One Beyond. I’m still weary about out last experience with One Beyond… I dunno yet.

I’m also back to walking her several times a week, with no extra feeding, and no problems at all. Yay! As for as weight goes, she’s keeping steady at just under (visually– I haven’t actually weighed her) an “ideal” weight. Honestly, I think I’m going to keep her there. Her hips have been giving her some troubles with this colder weather, and I don’t want to bother them more by putting more weight on them (she’s tripped a few times on uneven ground on walks, and gone down butt-first, otherwise its usually just a little stiffness after laying down for long periods). She’s a little lean, but she certainly doesn’t look or act starved, and has been super perky. She’s eating about 2.5 cups of dry food, right now, plus half a can of Pro Plan, an egg (sometimes whole, sometimes just the insides), and a hot dog almost every night. Plus her vitamins, glucosamine, and fish oil, which I’ve dropped to one every night or so, since she’s on fish-based food. She’s do for shots soon, so I’ll see what the vet says about her weight.

[staxgrl]

Hey gang! I’ve been a reader for several months, but I’m just now ready to start making up my boys’ diets from scratch. I have 2 st. bernard/pyrenees mixes who are about 95 lbs each and a mutt who is about 45lbs. Big boys are 16 months-ish, little guy is around 9 months. Right now the big ones eat about 1600 calories a day and the little one eats around 750. I am happy with everyone’s weight, everybody has a nice tummy tuck and I can feel ribs under my fingers 🙂
Here are my planned menus, I am going to try and rotate in pork hearts and pork necks as well since those are readily available in bulk from my butcher. For now, I am out of room in my garage freezer 🙂 That said, I so appreciate/value your feedback on this. I know how much time and energy it takes to read through all the opinions/information on homemade raw diets, and your expertise is honestly priceless. I am so grateful for this forum. Here goes:

Hagrid/Ludo (95lb dogs)
1 large chicken quarter, bone-in (~1lb)
½ lb (8oz) gizzards
½ lb (8oz) heart
1oz liver
1oz kidney
2 eggs
¼ cup greek yogurt
2 cubes veggie blend
2 crushed multivitamins (one a day)
2 fish oil capsules (1200mg each)
200IU vitamin E (or 400IU every other day)

Debian (45lb dog)
1 small chicken quarter/drumstick (~1/2 lb)
¼ lb gizzards (4oz)
¼ lb heart (4oz)
½ oz liver
½ oz kidney
1 egg
1/8 cup greek yogurt
1 cube veggie blend
1 crushed multivitamin (one a day)
1 fish oil capsule (1200mg)
100IU vitamin E (or 200IU every other day)

veggie blend (steamed/blended and divided into ice cube trays):
2 bunches kale
1/2 lb carrots
1 apple
1 banana
1 sweet potato
4oz alfalfa sprouts

The menu is for a total day, it would be split up into 2 meals. I know that’s a kind of high percentage of heart, so I wanted to know if there were any opinions on that? And what about the veggie blend? This is a really simple recipe so I’m adding multivitamins to hopefully take care of any deficiencies. Thanks!

[theBCnut]

You have to be careful with cod liver oil. It can cause excesses of fat soluable vitamins like A and D.

[theBCnut]

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-premium-milk-thistle-liquid-extract-alcohol-sugar-free-1-fl-oz-29-6-ml-liquid?csi=NAT060&csp=SW1171
For your little one I would use about 5 drops once or twice a day.

[Harpers Mom]

Just an update and some advise, We found a food Harper is doing excellent on, Merrick grain free- beef and sweet potato. I still want to have a rotational diet for her so does anyone know of a kibble with similar ingredients to the Merrick? She also does well on the duck formula. The ingredients of each are posted below.

Merrick Grain free- Real Duck and Sweet Potato
Deboned Duck, Turkey Meal, Salmon Meal (source of Omega 3 fatty acids), Sweet Potato, Peas, Lamb Meal, Potato, Duck Fat (preserved with natural mixed tocopherols), Pea Protein, Natural Flavor, Apples, Blueberries, Organic Alfalfa, Salmon Oil, Minerals (Salt, Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Amino Acid Complex, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Copper Amino Acid Complex, Potassium Iodide, Cobalt Amino Acid Complex, Sodium Selenite), Vitamins (Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin D3, Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement, Biotin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate), Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, Dried Lactobacillus casei fermentation product, Dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, Rosemary Extract.

Merrick Grain Free- real Texas beef and sweet potato
Deboned Beef, Beef Liver, Lamb Meal, Sweet Potato, Peas, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract), Natural Flavors, Potato Protein, Potato, Deboned Buffalo, Deboned Lamb, Flaxseed, Whey Protein Concentrate, Apples, Salmon Oil, Blueberries, Organic Alfalfa, Minerals (Salt, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Amino Acid Complex, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Copper Amino Acid Complex, Potassium Iodide, Cobalt Amino Acid Complex, Sodium Selenite), Vitamins (Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement, Biotin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate), Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, Dried Lactobacillus casei fermentation product, Dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product.

[JASTECH]

Shepard mom, I would not look at them grains. Never seen a healthy k9 chowing down in the middle of a farmers field, ignoring the rabbits and other 4 leg’ed meat running about. Choose assorted meats to vary the dogs proteins, vitamins and such as they would naturally do in the wild.

[beagleowner]

Thank you for your support. I am having a difficult time with Henry’s death. Thinking it was flu or cold and finding out that it was his heart was so devastating. I know the Vet told me there was nothing I did or could have done to prevent this, but my grieving goes to all kinds of questions. Did I feed him right. We made his food and gave him vitamins. I never gave him anything that I did not clear through my vet. When he had his annual visit in early Dec. she noticed a slight heart murmur but nothing to be concerned about. He had blood tests and his liver enzymes were elevated. We took him for a fasting blood test and rather than a sonogram we decided to do a blood test every two months to keep checking. The night before he died, it never entered my mind that he was in a dangerous state. He was restless and since he was deaf and loved treats so he barked a lot. Sometimes it annoyed me. Did he know I loved him? Could I have done more. I was not present when he was euthanized. Should I had been beside him. I miss him greatly and am so distressed. I know my husband is grieving as well. He is trying to console me.

[LindaW]

If you are going to feed kibble, IMO, Nature’s Logic is the best one because it is the only one without synthetic vitamins/minerals. There’s one other out there, but it has RICE–also referred to as “arsenic”. I feed raw–when my pup will it eat. I’d like to feed Brothers Complete because she actually ate it, but am concerned about the synthetic vitamins and minerals which can cause long term problems, etc.

[RescueDaneMom]

crazy mom-

The general consensus is that puppies can start regulating calcium uptake at 10 months. Your Danes are both over 10 months so you don’t have to feed one of the foods on HDM’s list. The most important thing is that it is “All Life Stages”. Most of the “large breed,” “giant breed,” “senior” labels are just marketing and there is no real benefit to feeding those foods over a regular ALS food.

Victor is a good food. Most of their varieties are 4 and 5 stars. /dog-food-reviews/victor-dog-food/
The Victor Select Professional formula looks good, it’s rated 4 stars. The Hi Pro Plus is 5 stars. You would be ok feeding any of their varieties but I’d stay away from the Multi-Pro Maintenance and the Beef Meal and Brown Rice, both are 3.5 stars.

If you can, it is better to rotate different brands of foods rather than different formulas within the same brand. Any deficiencies or abundances in certain vitamins or minerals will likely be present in all formulas within a brand. If you can rotate different brands, you are more likely to cover all your bases because different brands have different vitamin/mineral profiles. Do you know what other brands your feed store carries? I could help you sort out some of the better ones to choose from if you like.

Edit- regarding transitioning, you may have to do it slowly at first. The more you change the food the easier transition will become. I changed foods after every bag and my Dane could switch cold turkey from bag to bag after awhile. That’s something you’ll need to watch your dogs for. If their stools start becoming loose then you might be transitioning too fast and need to slow it back down.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 10 months ago by RescueDaneMom.

[theBCnut]

1/2 teaspoon per cup of food for the ACV. And 2 cloves of garlic 3 days in a row then 4 days off. The garlic needs to be chopped up right before feeding. I’ve heard B vitamins make you taste bad to biting bugs…

[nata78sha]

Hello. I am new here. I have a St Bernard mix (98 pounds) that will be 9 years old in the fall. I also have a 5 year old miniature schnauzer. Our dogs have been on the grain free natures domain from Costco for years (at the advice of our old vet). The vet here wants my Saint on senior food. He suggested canned food, cooked human food (and buy vitamins if I cook his food) and then dry food or mixing canned with dry food . But he suggested Science diet and said he did not like Blue Buffalo … so that has me questioning him. I know BB had a recall but I had always seen high rating for it. I could have also sworn that he said a low protein diet.. I would think it would be the opposite- less carbs.. but I am not a vet. Does the Saint need to be on a senior food , is there an all stages food that both dogs can be on? Also the schnauzer is very active, the Saint..not so much. Price does matter.. I can not afford to pay $50+ for 30 pounds of dog food when I go through 6 cups a day (current food).

[Mom2Cavs]

Betsy, I think Mulligan Stew’s canned food has no added vits/mins but their kibble does add some in, like vit. e, zinc and vit. d3. I’m actually feeding the Mulligan Stew canned food to my dogs as a topper and it’s my cat’s current wet food of choice. I just got a 5 lb. bag of the salmon kibble to try with the dogs. Stella couldn’t chew the bigger pieces back when I first tried it. Laverne doesn’t like Wellness because of its shape but seems to love the M.S. kibble. It’s a little softer due it being a baked kibble, I guess. I am using Fromm Salmon a la Veg as their base kibble right now, but would like another to use.

[DogFoodie]

Both Nature’s Logic and Mulligan Stew are regulars in my rotation and I use them with great results.

I’ve also recently done some research on supplements in search of one that has added Taurine for my Cavalier and found that Nature’s Logic has a great whole food vitamin / mineral supplement called All Food Fortifier, which has no synthetic ingredients.

[Mom2Cavs]

Fwiw, Mulligan Stew is another brand that does not use synthetic vitamins/minerals.

[theBCnut]

No, they should have been very early on your list. The expensive foods are grain free and soy free and almost all of the limited ingredient foods shouldn’t have had those either, since they should have one meat protein and one starch and only the vitamins and minerals needed to balance that. Allergy tests are still known to give false positives as well as false negatives. A proper elimination diet would have served you better.

[LindaW]

Hi, all. I’ve just recently learned through initially “Dogs Naturally” magazine and then numerous other sources about the dangers and shortcomings of synthetic vitamins and minerals in almost all commercially prepared dog food whether dry or canned. The stuff is derived from toxic materials and since it is so much less expensive than whole food sources, they use them.
There is only one commercial food, Nature’s Logic, that I know of. I had wanted to try Brothers Complete, but they have synthetic also (sodium selenite, etc.). Sometimes my very discerning golden ret. pup doesn’t want her raw or home cooked fare and she will eat a little kibble or canned. Very difficult puppy to feed. So, let’s help spread the word about the synthetics. It is just as important as not feeding Beneful or Ol Roy. Even human vitamins has it unless it is “whole food” supplements. The articles state that quite a few problems that dogs have can be linked back to these artifical supps.

[InkedMarie]

I used K9 Liquid Gold with very good results. My holistic vet says straight glucosamine. You can get pills, powder and liquid. I currently use Swanson vitamins Joint Mobility plus; she also gets green lipped mussel and benefits hips & knees (it’s a Chinese herb).

[theBCnut]

She has enough different issues that I don’t know if anyone here can help you. The diabetes needs a low starch diet. The panceatitis needs a low fat diet. IBD often needs a low fiber, no grains diet. I would recommend consulting with a veterinary nutritionist for a homemade, possibly homemade raw, diet, because it sound to me like she needs a diet based on low fat meat and the necessary vitamins/mineral and not much else.

[theBCnut]

Your best bet is to reply to Hound Dog Mom over on the review side in “Off Topic” and ask her to look at this. She’s the best at looking at things like thios and figuring out what you ought to add, or whatever. Off the top of my head, I wonder what is wrong with it that it is AAFCO for maintenance and reproduction but not growth. And I wonder why they would put minera oil in it. Mineral oil binds with fat soluable vitamins and pulls them out of the food so they can’t be used. Then there’s the menadione, that shouldn’t be in there at all. I don’t even know what ethylenediamine dihydriodide is, but I’ve seen it listed before.

[Akari_32]

Just curious, since I have Haley on a fish based food right now, should I maybe cut back on giving her fish oil? The mix is maybe 1/3 CORE Ocean Fish. I usually give her 2 fish oil pills a day (can’t find the dose on the bottle for the life of me! The directions say, for an adult human, three daily, one with each meal). Some times I don’t ive her any vitamins because I don’t want to deal with it, but she gets all her vitamins at least 3 times a week. She doing really good with her weight, so I don’t worry too much with the vitamins any more.

But I did walk her the other day since she’s been doing so well, the first time in a month or so. It wasn’t a fast walk or anything (not fast for me, anyways, but the dogs had a good trot going most of the time), but it was pretty long, 20-30 minutes, which is our usual length. I fed her how much food she’s been getting, which has been keeping her weight steady, just to what would happen, and she did loose some weight after that. In fact, I noticed a difference before and after our walk. I’ll try about like 1/2 cup more next time and see what happens. But any thoughts on that?

[theBCnut]

No, puppy food is great for adult dogs. They are more careful with the levels of vitamins and minerals that puppies need, because it is easier for them to have issues than adult dogs with getting too much. The adult dog food profile usually has minimums established, but may not have maximums on some things.

[Sydney]

We still moisten the kibble for our 8-month old puppy, so we decided to try Greenies to keep her teeth clean. Never again. After first turning her nose up at it, she finally managed to slowly polish off one stick. She eats virtually everything, so we thought it was odd that she didn’t show her usual avid interest. Later that day, she became rather lethargic and laid down rather than eat dinner. That’s when we knew something was wrong. Normally, she plays and plays during the day, and when dinner time arrives, she dives in head first. We noticed that her heart rate was much higher than normal, and she was panting… not because of excess play or hot weather. It was winter with snow on the ground. Her body temperature also seemed elevated, although we didn’t have a rectal thermometer to take her temperature. She refused to eat yogurt or her favorite carrots, and we thought about taking her to the vet, but decided to let her rest until morning. The next day, she was her usual self: hyperactive, hungry, and happy. She had 3 large bowel movements before noon, and after that was even happier! Current information on Greenies suggests that they are hard to chew into small pieces and often break off in large clumps, which may cause pancreatitis and esophageal or intestinal obstruction. They are only about 85% digestible if chewed completely, even after a reformulation of this product by the manufacturer. Chewing them completely can result in stringy diarrhea and/or vomiting for many dogs and cats. Although there is a negligible amount of vitamins and minerals, Greenies consist of mostly pork gelatin, wheat, and glycerin–not exactly what makes for a healthy pet. We are thankful that our puppy didn’t suffer more serious consequences from her first (and last) experience with Greenies. Rather than donate the unused portion of the bag we purchased to our local animal shelter, it has instead been donated to the local landfill.

[theBCnut]

Liver should be no more than 5% of the meat in their diet. It is high in fat soluable vitamins and can be overdone. And you can definitely get signs of intestinal distress in the stool if the diet is too far off.

[Akari_32]

Tonight she got half wellness and half etc dog food (totaling about 4-4.5 cups), some canned pro plan, her vitamins, and a hot dog. The hot dog only adds 140 calories, but it’s something, and it’s easier for her to eat than more dry food is. She pretty much inhaled it! Lol I’ve got some canned pumpkin I might aught to add tomorrow or she’ll belly-aching and grumbling at me.

I spent about 20 minutes pulling that rotisserie chicken off the bone the other night. It’s not a fun job at all!

She loves turkey backs, but I haven’t seen any lately. Any raw treats they’ve gotten in the last two months has been liver or gizzards because there are no necks and backs floating around! What are some other cheap cuts of meat I give them?

[Akari_32]

I’m having trouble keeping weight on Haley, my 11 year old lab/retriever mix. Ever since I switched from Wellness Core to RR (Zero Grain and Just 6 mix), she’s been droppig weight like crazy. She’s currently on about 1/4 RR and 3/4 Purina One, and that’s helping tons now. I had the dogs on all RR, then got a really awesome deal on the Purina One, and I’m just about out of the RR now, I have maybe 15 pounds left.

Unfortunately, we’re at a financial point were if we buy it, we use it. Throwing out or giving it away won’t do us any good. Since I’ve got lots of the Purina and few other random small bags of food, I’ve just been giving a small amount of the RR. I always mix in canned food (Haley can’t do straight dry food in meal size quantities, as her stomach can’t handle it and it makes her miserable), and usually a raw egg. I’ve stopped walking her almost completely, and upped her food to 6-9 cups a day, depending on if we walk or not. This has helped a lot, but she’s not a big eater to begin with.

My plan is to get at least her back on Wellness ASAP (I have about 15 pounds of that that I bought recently with coupons, and will get more as soon as I have the funds and time), as well as buy some good, all beef hot dogs to add some extra calories and protein to her diet (I have 10 free packs lined up as soon as they get in stock). She’s currently on vitamins, glucosamine, and fish oil as well. The fish oil has helped her put some weight on, too.

I’m positive the switch from the Wellness Core foods to the lesser RR, and then even lesser Purina One has got her system all in a fit, but it’s been months since she’s been off Wellness. RR is only 313 calories per cup, which I only found out recently, and that’s when I started feeding more, realizing it was partly not enough calories. Other than that, I don’t think she digests food very well, which is why I always wet her food– makes it easier on her tummy. She did great on Wellness and I only fed her 2.5-3 cups. My Rott mix has not needed an increase in food since the switch, and neither really has moms terrier (only on days he’s particularly hyper).

I also plan to buy some Nutri Source Super Preformance off PetFlow, but I’d like to get her back on Wellness and get weight back up first, and see if any certain ingredients have anything to do her weight loss, and see how she does grain free vs grain inclusive. The dogs were all on corn based foods until I took over the dog food buying a few years ago, and I’ve more or less kept them on grain free, and anything that wasn’t, they weren’t on for any length of time. Then when I started with the RR Zero Grain as the bulk of their diet a few months ago, it’s been an uphill battle >.<

Any changes to my plan, at all? Anything to add, or take away? Any other ideas, period? Budget is extremely tight, so don’t get too crazy on my, but I need to get some weight on my girl that doesn’t involve shoving food down her throat.

[A.Sandy]

Ms. patty,
Of course hamburger meat has protein fat, omegas sodium etc but what I was trying to imply is that I have met a lot of customers that feed this kind of meat and ASSUME it’s enough to support a dog’s caloric and nutrient needs. And also, carbs are not a necessity in a dog’s food but it has a lot of benefits(energy, skin and coat, vitamins, omegas etc.) But quality of ingredients are key. This is my field of study and have worked with Reps of some of the highest quality pet foods, and everybody is free to give their opinion of things to learn from each other, so stop bashing me like that because I have no quarrel with you or anybody on this site, so please.

Thanks
Ana

[theBCnut]

It’s also c**p. Not that anyone here would feed just hamburger, or let anyone who posted here think that just feeding hamburger was OK. But there are 3 macronutrients, protein, fat, and carbohydrates. Dogs don’t need carbohydrates, so pointing out that hamburger doesn’t have them is not helpful. There are many micronutients)protein and fat are not counted among them) and hamburger has micronutrients in it(just not all the ones that are necessary) like fat soluable vitamins, sodium, minerals, omega 6s, etc. And they don’t add steroids and antibiotics to the hamburger, they feed it to the cows, so every bit of meat and bone that comes off of those cows has it, not just the hamburger. And no they don’t add fillers and GMOs to hamburger, but they do use pink slime, which is technically still hamburger.

[FreeholdHound]

This was posted a a Greyhound forum in regards to BDN (not my post)

My inquiry:
“Thank you. I found the product analysis, but need the nutrient profile, ie how much protein, calcium, phosphorous, magnesium, sodium, potassium, zinc, niacin, folic acid, iodine, pantothenic acid, iodine, riboflavin, thiamine, vitamin A, D & E, etc, etc, etc………………..you get the idea. It’s usually broken down into three different groups: “As Received”, “Dry Matter Basis” “As Served (Hydrated)”.
This analysis is crucial for dogs with kidney or liver disease as an example. I have a dog with kidney disease and it is vital to know the calcium/phosphorous ratio.”

Their reply:
“According to our latest analysis, the ca/ph ratio of the beef is 1.1:1. The Tripe Supreme has a ca/ph ratio of 1.78:1.
The ratio of the chicken is 1.56:1. All the calcium in our products is from natural origin. You can’t compare this with the studies out there based on products where calcium is added as a supplement.
We have our analysis split up in “As received” and “Dry matter”. I really don’t understand the “As Served” part. This all depends how much water is added by the customer. Some dogs like it a bit dryer, some a bit more moist.

We are looking for the highest bio-availability possible. Most artificial supplements that you see used in all kind of different dog foods simply don’t do the job. They are not readily available. This is also the reason we ferment the vegetables. The fermented vegetables make the calcium, vitamins, and the ingredients in general, highly bio-available.
We hear excellent testimonials from our customers on a daily basis. Older dogs that start playing again, dogs that get better muscle tone, long time ear infections that disappear, etc… the list is endless. Dogs that went from one vet to another for years, and get better after being on Big Dog Natural. This keeps us going and tells us that we’re doing the correct thing.

I know what your saying but I raised and owned Mastiffs for over 30 years. We have an old school approach of dog food. Use high quality ingredients and you’re good. I never raised my kids by over analyzing their foods but they were fed well and healthy. I really don’t believe there is a need for deep analysis when the ingredients are top quality. You only need supplements and additives when crap is used. We use the analysis as a guideline to formulate the product, not as a marketing tool. We just want a healthy dog food for healthier dogs.

Hope this help

Carl Van Bael
The Big Dog Natural Team”

[suztzu]

Hello, everyone I am in need of advice and since everyone has helped me in the past, I would love to hear from you all again. Heres the story I have a 10yr old shih Tzu named Leo and I brought him in for routine blood work for a dental, and his blood work came back with elevated ELT levels at 900 (supposed to be around 30) and elevated ELP levels. So my vet suspected Cushing’s disease even though he was not yet exhibiting symptoms like increased thirst and food drive. He is actually a little increased but barely. We did a bile acid test which was high at 30 (should be around 12) also the urine test commonly done to determine if he is secreting cortisol in his urine it came back positive but not too off the charts. Well next step is abdominal ultrasound which I got the results back today are pretty bad he has degenerative kidney disease ( not showing up in blood work yet) nodules on both adrenal glands and a small liver not cirrhotic yet. So she wants him on a diet change immediately and since he is not showing too many symptoms of Cushing’s disease we are not going to do anymore testing for that and cannot treat him for that without possibly creating a renal failure since Cushing’s medications can cause kidney dysfunction. So I guess my question is of course my vet gave me some Science Diet KD to start with but I am not a big fan of it can anyone recommend any other foods for kidney disease and also has anyone else had any experience with these diseases ? I thought he was doing so well for his age in great health at a good weight he’s has been active and happy, I am besides myself. He is getting a liver support antioxidants and vitamins with milk thistle from my vet as well. But I am at a loss at how to proceed, any help would be welcome Thanks for listening.

[pugmomsandy]

If I remember, I’m going to get some liver and gizzard for the batch. But that’s what I like about the CarnivoreRaw. It has vitamins, etc for when I might not have a certain ingredient.

[A.Sandy]

Are you feeding raw? Did you know that there is also a wrong way to feed raw? I’ve met people that feed raw hamburger meat and assume that it is a full balanced meal the answer is… wrong! The only 2 nutrients they are getting from raw hamburger are protein and fat. Your pets may seem well fed but dogs and cats require so much more than that. It may be cheap to feed that kind of meat but it will have it’s consequences such as essential nutrient deficiencies such as a zinc deficiency for example that causes retarded growth, coat discolorations and harshness or other things such as food intolerances or even hair loss. Our pets require a complete balanced meal that includes bones or bone meal, fruits and veggies, vitamins and minerals and of course protein and fat all in balanced proportion( this is where the science of nutrition comes into play) Another concern is hamburger meat is mostly meant to be cooked not fed raw because now a days they add hormones, steroids, and fillers, gmos, etc. so there are pet food companies that sell well balanced raw foods that are safe and ready to feed so you don’t have to worry that they are missing out on anything.

-Ana
Pet nutrition expert/advisor
pupcatnutrition.com
@pupcatfacts

[sbickford30]

I have 4 dogs weighting from 7 lbs to 15 lbs I wanna fed them all human grade food not raw I don’t care what people say I don’t wanna fed them raw meat so I cook it how ever I don’t know how much meat they should eat as far as percentage verse vegetables and I fed them no grain what so ever .I give them chicken and I buy heart and gizzards and chicken livers and grind it all up together but I give more of the gizzards and liver then chicken cuz of the price .I give them a mix of veggies cooked as well. My problem my dogs r older I don’t wanna not give them what they need as far as vitamin I give them nu vet and I’m not sure if I should be giving them more vitamins .we have pellet stove and wood stove so there fur a little drier I need help please someone tell me how to fed them lol also I’m unsure of how much food to give them right now I’m giving them a 1/2 cup 2 times a day ty everyone

[losul]

Kms.
I’m really sorry I can’t answer many of your questions and I’m not qualified to give medical advice. I don’t know specifically what your vet prescribed the SMZ TMP for, if it was even for anything specific. It may not be effective against clostridium? I would ask questions of your vet, before carrying on.

c. difficile and c. perfingens are often culprits in humans. I think c. perfingens more often in dogs.

SMZ TMP (usage in humans) http://www.webmd.com/drugs/drug-64007-SMZ-TMP+DS+Oral.aspx?drugid=64007&drugname=SMZ-TMP+DS+Oral

“This medication may rarely cause a severe intestinal condition (Clostridium difficile-associated diarrhea) due to a resistant bacteria. This condition may occur while receiving treatment or even weeks to months after treatment has stopped. Do not use anti-diarrhea products or narcotic pain medications if you have the following symptoms because these products may make them worse. Tell your doctor immediately if you develop: persistent diarrhea, abdominal or stomach pain/cramping, or blood/mucus in your stool.”

“Use of this medication for prolonged or repeated periods may result in oral thrush or a new yeast infection (oral or vaginal fungal infection). Contact your doctor if you notice white patches in your mouth, a change in vaginal discharge or other new symptoms.”

About the kaolin (pro-pectin)

Kaolin Interactions

Kaolin pectin may decrease the absorption of drugs that chelate with aluminum salts (eg, digoxin, clindamycin, lincomycin). Until more information is available, avoid taking kaolin with drugs that chelate with aluminum. It may also decrease the absorption of trimethoprim and quinidine.

http://www.drugs.com/npp/kaolin.html

It looks like as long as you separate the doses enough, it may be O.K.

Trimethoprim (Proloprim) interacts with KAOLIN
Kaolin might decrease the absorption and decrease the effectiveness of trimethoprim (Proloprim), an antibiotic. To avoid a potential interaction, separate trimethoprim (Proloprim) and kaolin doses by at least two hours.

http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-44-KAOLIN.aspx?activeIngredientId=44&activeIngredientName=KAOLIN

The questions about the probiotics and enzymes- I don’t know, but me, I would be leery of using the enzymes at least for the time being.

By lightly cooked meat, I meant cooked only enough to kill pathogens that may be present. The rice cooked per package directions should be fine.

[losul]

Actually, the diarrhea can be a defense mechanism to attempt to flush out the toxins. If it were me, for now, I would remove all extra forms of fiber, including pumpkin, and anything else that could slow the transit time through the digestive tract, so the toxins aren’t retained any longer than necessary.

Probably, amongst other things, the outside lab is testing for the various toxins that some clostridium species create under certain conditions.

For now, and temporarily, I would just go with lightly cooked beef, chicken, and plain white rice (most white rice sold in the U.S. is enriched with vitamins). I wouldn’t use any whole grains or anything else hard to digest.

[enny]

I subscribe to an independent supplement testing service called ConsumerLab.com. They mostly test supplements for human consumption but they sometimes test pet vitamins. Recently they tested a dog multivitamin called PetNaturals Daily Best for Dogs. This vitamin failed their test because of too much lead in a daily dose, less vitamin C than claimed and and a smaller than claimed weight per vitamin. I use a different named vitamin called Canine Plus Senior for Dogs but it’s manufactured by the same company. They manufacture under various names. The company is called Vetri Science Laboratories a division of Food Science Corp. I noticed recently that the pill I give my dog has shrunk in size too even though it’s supposed to be the same. When talking to the company rep I’ve always felt they were being evasive to my questions. I’m going to try to get a refund on my vitamins because of the poor test results. Thought you should be aware of the lead problem.

[theBCnut]

Maybe not!

[Akari_32]

Oh cool, I’ll have to see how much it is here. Still haven’t gotten it yet, as she seems to be doin good on vitamins, fish oil and probiotics. Don’t want to do too much to her at once as she tends to have tummy troubles. And I just remembered, she sometimes has problems with dairy… Maybe kefir isn’t the best idea for her?

[theBCnut]

My local Walmart has recently gotten more flavors of kefir and the price has gone down to $2.95 for a quart. Woo Hoo!! I guess my talking it up to everyong I meet has had an impact on sales.

[RescueDaneMom]

A lot of glucosamine is sourced from shellfish. Do you think she could have a shellfish allergy? They make vegetarian glucosamine and joint supplements. http://www.swansonvitamins.com/q?kw=vegetarian+glucosamine+-+shellfish+free

I don’t think any supplements will conflict with kibble. You should be fine adding whatever supplement you decide to try right into her kibble. Sometimes herbs can have a strong smell (and taste I’m guessing) so you may have to add a little canned food or something else yummy to mask the smell/flavor.

[theBCnut]

Dogs stomachs are naturally more acidic than ours and they have problems when their stomach is not acidid enough. Citrus isn’t nearly acidic enough, but it does have a particular set of antioxidants as well as vitamins. But depending on how the citrus is listed on the label, it may actually be waste from the juice industry and be nothing more than a source of fiber. BTW, mangoes and apples are not citrus, but are good in small amounts for the same reasons.