[Akari_32]

That’s right! I totally knew that lol Silly tripe and it’s grossness :p

I’ll go out maybe today (or after work tomorrow) and talk to the meat department guys and get a list of exactly what they can order, but I’m pretty sure they’ll all come from mostly beef and chicken, and only at the extent of what I’ve listed off. I wish I could get rabbit for something different every now and then, but they’re like $20 for a small, couple pound animal! Plus the shop they come from is far away lol I think I’ll be able to shop sales on lamb, at least. Variety sucks here lol

Ok, so he weighs 7.8lbs, or 124.8oz. He’s a very active dog (being a terrier) so I wonder if I should keep him at the 5oz he’s eating on SSLL, rather than doing the 2-3% body weight thing you’re supposed to start at (3% for him would be 3.74oz)? At 5oz right now, even on 30% fat pork, he keeps a good, lean, muscley weight.

I think, just to be sure I cover all my bases, I’ll rotate between all raw and the SSLL mix. A just in case sort of deal, you know? I’m still a bit unsure about this whole do-it-yourself business when it comes to balanced raw because if you screw it up, it can be very detrimental. That said, I may go for the multi vitamin deal for some extra insurance. I actually have some kids chewable multi vitamins. Could that be something that would work (They’re all natural and organic, made of fruits and veggies)? If not, what’s cheap that you would recommend?

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

BC
thanks so so much.
I guess the breeders must get some kind of kick-back (i don’t mean that in a bad sounding way) but this was a mini schnauzer breeder and yes her guarantee was also contingent on giving the Nuvet vitamins, she even gave a special code to get a 45% discount.
Thanks again.
Do you think a puppy that is fed commercial raw, orijen & legacy kibble, cooked meats, poultry & veggies and eventually THK should be on supplements ?
My older gal is on some ,but with this gal at 6 1/2 months should I be giving them so soon?
She grew in the 3 1/2 months that’s she’s been with me and weighs almost 15 lbs-all she wants to do is eat, I hesitate to take the 3rd meal away, but I don’t want her to gain too much weight too quickly.
Thank you always for your input and knowledge

[Dog_Obsessed]

Thanks for the clarification! I know that Nature’s Logic food does not contain any synthetic vitamins, I just checked and there food does not appear to contain any form of copper. Is this why it is questionable whether or not it actually meets nutritional standard?

[l h]

Interesting, quick update, received an e-mail after all. Stating they use the whole carcass, which I have always thought was good… one liver, two kidneys per bird etc. Etc. blood for the chicken formula for iron, tripe for the calcium and no bone in their beef. Mentioned nutrient panels being made in and for AAFCO, and that they are as someone mentioned above expensive. Found the feedback positive, as I do know that dog food is not a”science” as the AAFCO and the food industry would like you to believe. This brings me back to my friend who started feeding her seizure husky raw food and lives in CANADA. This has helped her dog tremendously no more bowel issues, no more itching, and seizures much further apart. Most of the reputable well loved brands she gets their have NO synthesized vitamins, no AAFCO breathing down their back, and a couple of the companies again, say they use whole carcass, but do not have the bone, muscle, organ ratios…. But, the most positive is that they are test batching their food with NONE of the potato to see how consistency is with removal as it is a binder. If they do this, I may just give it a go….

[l h]

What an excellent read on this! I too am leery of this food had e-mailed back and forth and kept getting scripted vague answers, such as bone content is not important we use the whole carcass, fermented veggies and fruits are more digestible. Anyway, finally got no response when I said I found it very odd that there was no nutrient panel, and no bone, muscle, organ ratio something disclosed by most every raw company I have dealt with.

As for the fish formula and peoples dogs getting ill, I for one would not feed raw fish, and there are varying opinion, but many who say fish, and pork are two meats to stay away from in raw, dehydrated or frozen for various reasons, bacterial level and other.

Yes their food calculator is way off, but then I have found the same thing with a number of brands… including darwins and vital essential freeze dried. A food with high protein and fat GA … yet food like Stella and Chewys, Primal with added veggies etc and lower fat I need LESS of, but with VE, a richer food, which you would assume you need less of, in fact you need MORE calorically.

Hard to trust so many foods, one of my dogs has major allergies, and GI sensitivities. I had hoped to add BDN into the mix, but am leery as to their lack of forthcoming info that is easily disclosed by other companies.

On their positive side, the whole bacteria and air drying process.. that is a catch 22… any food that is air dried( think people that used to make jerky long ago not in an oven) will risk that. Even frozen raw has bacteria once thawed… you cook the meat over a certain temperature, and BDN having supposedly bone in content, then you risk cooking the bone, and making your pup very ill. Plus a healthy dog, should be able to eat all these forms of raw… no issue and digest.

If BGN ever decides to disclose more info I may try, but I find their responses and secrecy very strange… sad as it does look like a good option, with the fermented veggies and all as a better way for the dog to process and digest, rather than pooping them out the other end. That being said, not fond of the potato in it although they insist only 3% as everyone knows starch and raw meat and bone digest at different rates.

Oh, and lastly for those that feed pre made raw, MOST companies Darwins, S&C, Primal with their added vitamins the vitamin E/tocopherol mix, and any Lecithin of course are most always soy based. So if you have a dog with soy among their allergies like mine, many of these foods are a no go, one of the reasons I had hoped to try BDN no synthesized vitamins, which again, unless a company claims are usa sourced are usually from China.

Yes I have researched and contacted many companies… sigh…

[l h]

Better take a look at the vitamins, most are china sourced. Unless a company says they use USA based vitamin mix, most are.. Honest Kitchen one of the very few that does.

[Akari_32]

Been getting some kitty snuggles tonight :3

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/Akari53/F6C7C8E4-2487-4A0F-9625-0448A6FD73C6_zps9uudgnra.jpg

I’m gunna try that gauze thing with him. His teeth are gross. He loves to chew things, so I wonder if those hard blocks of catnip are maybe worth a try? Something to chew on… PetSmart and Publix sell them for a couple dollars a piece.

Oh! And Publix has all their Sundown Naturals vitamins 50% off so I grabbed two of these for just $10!

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/Akari53/61FD3B77-5359-491B-8993-89FB4BCC04B8_zpss7ha4hwo.jpg

I’m considering buying more lol I also bought three jars of fish oil pills for Haley and Dweezle for a couple dollars each :3

[Cait Y]

Ok so I have lurked here for a little over a year, and recently started making my own raw cat food via Lisa A. Pierson, DVM because one of my boys almost died after getting into the Dry food AGAIN and his whole GI system blocked up because he cannot handle the lack of fluids in dry food. He is such a picky eater that I had put off the raw diet dreading that he would turn his nose up at it like he did the other high quality raw/semi cooked food I tried buying him. He LOVED the home made food, he even batted off his BFF to eat his food too!
HoundDogMom, other raw feeders please bear with me I know that the whole shebang I know as of now it is 6 pages long. I am trying to paint the whole picture with the dogs, their special needs and what is causing me confusion with the Raw feeding books I have read. There is so much going on right now in my personal life that I am having a very hard time understanding this and if anyone could help point me in the right direction or even a book or website or from experience I would be so very very grateful.
The biggest reservation I have about feeding Raw to the dogs (who LOVED the scoop of homemade cat food I gave them as a test) are the bones and sadly the limited ingredients I can use for my Special Needs Hound.
I have a 14 yr old Walker hound (Forest) who has like no teeth left and was just diagnosed with cushing’s disease but has some pretty abnormal liver tests because of the damage that was done while he went undiagnosed. His liver is so enlarged it displaces his stomach sideways and upwards which makes EASILY digestible food a must. He cannot have food high in phosphorus, copper or ammonia which means little to no red meat and lots of poultry, eggs and pork. He also has problems with chronic Constipation so I would have to be VERY careful about the amount of bone I add to his diet but I also want enough in there to give him the nutrients he needs. Since he is older he also burns a LOT of calories, He is on Vital Fresh pet Turkey or Chicken and gets 1.5 lbs a day. I don’t know what is causing him to burn so many calories except for old age or maybe his body is trying to repair itself – all he does is lounge in the lawn and do his hound dance for food – people or animal whichever he can mac on at the moment lol
My 3 yr old yellow lab (Nova) is also a high calorie burner but she is super active, we do scent tracking, retrieving, and lots of walking/running on the grass. She will go until she drops which I have never seen before, so now I watch her very closely for signs she is over heated. She eats up to 2 lbs of the above dog food a day but is still losing weight on occasion when her activity jumps up again. She has always had double the amount of Eosinophils in her blood that she should at a “normal” rate. She has been checked for parasites so the best I can come up with is that she might have GI issues going on intermittently – she doesn’t transition food gracefully and really doesn’t tolerate even high quality kibble (after research it’s not such a mystery anymore) which is in part what turned me onto Freshpets Vital.
To top it all off I have a Four month old female lab puppy (Ellie) that is still growing. I have her on 2 lbs of Freshpets vital but I am worried that she is not getting something in her diet as well. She has three white lines running across her nails – each nail on every paw. In my experience when the horses have white lines or even indents it means either they were very very sick or have a mineral/vitamin deficiency of some sort. I know when Ellie came to us she had a severe infection of hook and round worms. Her infection was so severe at 8 weeks old that the vet said she would have died untreated – thank you OCD and taking her to the Vet the same day she was brought home lol. They were resistant to the normal worming meds and for 2 months we battled with getting them under control and gone. If Dogs are like horses that would cause the lines because of how sick she was during this (Great going Lemon law Florida) yet I also worry because I know parasites in small animals or even large can cause a huge system imbalance with nutrients which hinders growth.
OK Limited ingredients – because of Forest I have to stick to Chicken, Turkey, and Eggs as a main protein source due to his liver problems and because Rabbit in completely unviable to me unless I want to raise them myself. I have no local butcher – the closest one is three hours away so Chicken and Turkey liver will have to do for organ meat – sometimes I can get chicken hearts once in a blue moon. For Fats I have to choose VERY easily digestible fats from an animal protein because with Forests Liver problems his biliary system can be overloaded very easily and that would be disastrous. Maybe I can add some duck occasionally to his diet?

Copper Issues:
If ammonia restriction is required, feed less red meats and organs since they produce the most ammonia. You may not want to eliminate them entirely though, as they have important nutrients that help with liver function.
Instead, cut back. Feed more poultry, fish, eggs, and pork. If feeding red meat, even in small quantities, buy the absolute best quality you can afford. Preferably grass fed, antibiotic, and hormone free.

Meats generally low in copper are:
• Beef (muscle meat, not organs)
• Eggs
• Turkey (white meat)
• Chicken (white meat)
• Rabbit
• Fish
Meats generally high in copper are:
• Lamb
• Pork
• Pheasant or Quail
• Duck
• Goose
• Salmon
• Organ Meats
When feeding organs for copper issues, some animal livers contain more copper than others. Beef liver is higher in copper than chicken or pork livers. Regardless, the zinc and b vitamins in liver help to reduce the risk of copper toxicity. Though if your dog has an issue with copper, opt for chicken or pork liver. (http://primalpooch.com/raw-feeding-guidelines-dogs-liver-disease/)

I have read Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet and Dr. Pitcairn’s New Complete Guide to Health of Dogs and Cats. I have some major issues with either of the books, UtCaD is so absolute – if you feed this protein then you need this oil. First of all Canola Oil? Corn Oil? Soybean Oil? Walnut oil? Flax and hemp seed oil? I own horses and I would NEVER give them Corn oil with the GMO crap going around I don’t trust Corn or Canola at all. If I am not comfortable feeding to my strict Herbivores I am definitely not OK feeding it to the other animals. By the way the 2,000 lbs animals have had major GI upset from Canola, Corn, Soybean and Flax seed oil. I’ve given it to them in small amounts – 3 tablespoons a day and I have seen a massive systemic effect that made me take them off of it immediately. It was supposed to give them the right ratio of Omega’s 3 and 6 plus help my older guys move and keep weight on since it was winter. The recommended Ratio of 6 to 3 fats are 10:1 to 5:1 for dogs – I have read that small fish or Krill are the best to supplement dogs with because of the low contamination rate and it should not carry Salmon Sickness. Soybean oil is also something I would never give my dogs or humans or anything because of the way it can mimic hormones and interrupt the function of the Thyroid. Also Kelp is recommended a lot, but there are so many negatives that came out during the feeding kelp to horse’s fad that I will not touch the stuff. If it can affect the horses with the amount of iodine to the point horses became toxic I don’t trust the manufactures. It was not that kelp was being fed in large amounts there was absolutely no regulation on what type they harvested or what it contained. Missing link for dogs is a product I am familiar with and they do make it for dogs with trace minerals but it is flax based. Won’t this completely mess up the balancing? Does anyone here feed this instead of kelp?
The Missing Link Ultimate Skin & Coat:
Active Ingredients (per tbsp)
Flaxseed Dried Kelp
Glucosamine Hydrochloride (Vegetarian) Zinc Monomethionine
Freeze Dried Beef Liver Lecithin
Blackstrap Molasses Chromium Yeast
Rice Bran Selenium Yeast
Primary Dried Yeast Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6)
Sunflower Seed Niacin (Vitamin B3)
Dehydrated Alfalfa Garlic Powder
Dried Carrot Yucca Schidigera Extract
Shark Cartilage Powder* Riboflavin (Vitamin B2)
Freeze Dried Fish Protein Powder Thiamine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B1)
Freeze Dried Oyster Powder Folic Acid
Barley Grass Leaves Powder Cobalamin (Vitamin B12)
Guaranteed Analysis Amount
Crude Protein (not less than) 18%
Crude Fat (not less than) 28%
Crude Fiber (not more than) 15%
Moisture (not more than) 10%
Linoleic Acid (Omega 6) 450 mg
**Linolenic Acid (Omega 3) 1000 mg
**Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Cat/Dog food nutrient profiles.

Also if everything is so precise that does not leave room for error such as what if the chickens were raised on Florida soil which is heavy in limestone and deficient in other areas – rather than let’s say somewhere in the bread bowl what about if they were fed a corn based feed and another batch was fed free range? If the meat analysis is different it throws everything off and we all know that meat from south Fl is very different than meat from MI or IN – same principle goes with growing vegetables even organic. How much of a God Factor is there for the abundance of some micronutrients and lack of others? UTCAD also has an abundance of some nutrients way over the NRC guidelines – are dogs different in the fact that they can rid themselves of excess things very easily? I know in humans and horses Vit E and Selenium can be deadly because it builds up in fat and the body doesn’t flush it out like the water-soluble vitamins?
Dr. Pitcairn’s New Complete Guide to Health has a lot of oat meal, rice, beans?! Half and Half milk, whole milk, whole wheat bread corn? That sounds not so great for dogs and especially not for cats like it says it can be. What about kidney beans? With feeding my dogs I have learned they do OK on rice occasionally when they have an upset GI but if they are on a diet with rice too long they get backed up. Also the beans – the dogs seem to have issues with digesting them like people sometimes do – why are there so many carbohydrates? Why cannot I do sprouted microgreens or carrots or even baked potatoes because I know the dogs tolerate those vegetables very well. Also Brewer’s Yeast? Isn’t yeast as a whole bad? It’s in everything and I know Nova already is prone to yeast infections in her ears and when she gets a UTI – Also can Brewer’s yeast cause or attribute to bloat? Milk – isn’t milk products bad if they are in large amounts such as 2 cups milk plus 2 cups rolled oats and 2 eggs and calcium powder? Everything to me seems so skewed.
Also RMB are out of the question – Forest cannot eat them and Nova and Ellie are gulpers – they came from a large litter and it would be just my luck to end up in emergency surgery with one of them. I have a grinder to which I can grind the bone up with the meat and I know the purpose of the bone was for dental health but if I make Meat Jerky and other goodies can I replicate that without worrying about emergency surgery or broken teeth?
Since I own a grinder already for cat food why cannot I grind bones to supplement their food with? So far in my research the basic recipe and consensus I have come across is as follows:
16% Organ meat
10% – 25% Bone
The rest of the food would be muscle meat and muscle meat
Meat is very high in phos and the bone is high in Cal which means the Cal to Phos ratio should be 1.2 to 1.5:1 although 1:1 to 2.5:1 is ok as well. I just need to make sure the dogs consume more Cal than Phos but the question is do I need to add bone meal or can I grind my own bones to supplement?
Here is what the Article analysis the bone content to be in prey animals:
Bone Content In Raw Foods
When sourcing bones for your dog’s diet, it’s a good idea to know the approximate amount of bone in commonly sourced foods. Here is a quick guide to help you keep your dog’s bone content in the right range; between 10% and 25%.
Chicken Whole chicken (not including the head and feet): 25% bone/Leg quarter: 30%/Split breast: 20%/Thigh: 15%/Drumstick: 30%/Wing: 45%/Neck: 36%/Back: 45%/Turkey/Whole turkey: 21%/Thigh: 21%/Drumstick: 20%/Wing: 37%/Neck: 42%/Back: 41%
Pork Feet: 30%/Tails: 30%/Ribs: 30%
Beef Ribs: 52%
Rabbit Whole rabbit (fur and all): 10% Whole (dressed): 25-30%

From this can I remove the proper amount of bones or add more bones in to balance or would you suggest a bone meal powder? Also I have yet to factor in the percentage of vegetable/fruit/microgreens in the recipe – I am just so lost so if HoundDogMom could help or someone else could chime in I would be so grateful. I am trying very hard to learn as much as I can but between the animals and two sick family members and special needs animals by the time I have a moment to sit down I am out like a light for the night or my brain is so frazzled everything looks like it was written in French. Am I over thinking this? I just don’t want to screw Ellie up – she has already had such a bad start with the worm infection – and Forest needs nutrients to rebuild his liver correctly and I wanted to see if this change in diet would help Nova’s Eosinophils come to a normal level. Also has anyone ever seen white lines on every toenail that grows parallel with the skin? Any help would be so appreciated there is just not a lot of room for error with Forest right now with his liver Alt levels 4 times what they are supposed to be. They cannot stay on the Freshpet much longer because to feed the dogs its 19 dollars a day and that’s not a very good long term solution.
Thanks so much everyone~!~ I Hope everyone had a great New Year and wonderful Holiday
`RedMare

[Pam P]

I’m just wondering why TruDog food isn’t one of the Editor’s Choices. It has no synthetic vitamins or minerals and is nutritionally balanced, according to the website. It seems like an excellent dog food.

[Richard W]

Everything JamieK typed is accurate. Being around dogs all day, working in a pet store, etc. doesn’t make one an expert on nutrition. No offense intended at all. Dogs evolved to be scavengers, getting nutrition from plant and animal sources. That makes them omnivorous.

Since plant-based foods contain more vitamins and minerals per calorie compared to animal-based foods, there are legitimate reasons to consider vegan or mostly-vegan diets superior.

The question of digestive enzymes or gut flora could tip the balance back toward meat, but that is largely unexplored territory. Humans have comparatively large digestive systems, but that is more because our ancestral diets contained large amounts of raw plant matter (more energy required to digest). Assuming that vegan dog food isn’t raw, and is prepared to optimize digestion and nutrient uptake, it could certainly work.

Again these are just the facts. If you disagree then your notion of common sense is flawed.

[Nancy M]

Checker

Thanks for your input. Well, I think I’m in line with all you’ve pointed out…….feeding at certain times of the day, feeding within the guidelines of the food, and vitamin supplementation (I give both my dogs the proper amount of Nu-Vet Plus vitamins, daily). Like I mentioned, this little guy might do better with self-feeding, as he use to be able to do, but it’s not really possible with another dog around here.

I’ll give it another day and see how it goes……things could always be worse. Last puppy I had, 4 years ago, was very sick and suffering with almost constant diarrhea for about 3 months. Thought I was going to lose him from dehydration. FINALLY…..by the time the vets (3) decided what it was, the breeder had already sent me the meds to clear it up. Started out with Coccidia and then came the Giardia. The vets were all too afraid to give the meds he needed (Albon and Metronitizole) because of his size, but the breeder knew what was needed and so within 2 – 3 days of following her instructions, he was almost normal again! So what I have going on right now, is nothing in comparison.

I truly believe there’s nothing “wrong” with him, except the “wrong” food. We’ll see though! I hope its that simple!

Thanks again!
Nancy

[LindaW]

Would love to see info published/discussed about the above topic title. I’ve been informed about how most dog food companies use synthetics that are *usually* from China or India. There are only a handful that have whole food vitamins. For instance, sodium selenite used for selenium, is derived from drain cleaner and lye. There was a great article in Dogs Naturally magazine that blew my mind. Never knew about the premixes before. Quite a lot of food allergies, the article stated, are actually not from any one food but from the chemicals used in the vitamin/mineral premixes. Good to know.

[Akari_32]

True enough.

I just realized the glucosamine values never made it up here. I’ll fix that… According to the site, it’s 119 mg of glucosamine per cup of food. Plus all that other stuff (vitamins E and C, and Omegas 3 and 6).

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/Akari53/089CB3EA-9F7C-4013-949B-6657588BA4CE_zpsvhsotvu5.png

I’m also looking at Health Extensions Lite and Health Extensions Little Bites. Both list glucosamine and chondroiton in their ingredient lists. I emailed the company and asked for the mg per cup so I could compare it with the JM. The biggest difference I can see just between the two Health Extensions foods is the Lite only has 9% fat (and 380-something kcal/cup) and the other one has 12% fat (and 400-something kcal/cup). Makes me thing the glucosamine and chondroiton will probably be close, if not the same.

[zhiba]

@theBCnut, I know this thread is a bit old, but your comment about histamine intolerance was interesting. I looked it up, and in some cases supplementation can help. I was curious if you can tried something like this –

“Diamine oxidase (DAO) is an essential enzyme in the body that breaks down histamine.”

From Swanson’s
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/health-library/products/daosin-histamine-intolerance-supplement.html

[Nelson P]

Hi everyone,
It’s the first time I post on this thread but have been learning a lot from reading it (specially from HDM). So, first of all thanks! Now, hopefully you guys don’t mind if I ask for a little more help. I have a 3 months old Golden Retriever. I have been feeding him Royal Canin Golden Retriever Junior (recommended by the vet.) but as you all know, it’s not the best choice. I want to do better. Unfortunately I don’t have the time or money to feed him a proper raw meal. Not now, maybe in the future (who knows). Good Canned is also very expensive (maybe I can add it as a topper sometimes). So I have to stick with kibble. Would like to choose from HDM list but I live in Europe (Portugal) and we don’t have those brands here (stores or online) and buy it from a international online store would also be too expensive for the shipping. I had to look for other brands and try to stick with the guidelines I learn here. As sad as it may look I couldn’t find too many brands to choose from (there are plenty but not that good). Basically I found 2 options: Orijen/Acana large breed puppy (I know it’s borderline with the calcium levels) or Naturea. Naturea is a portuguese brand but they produce there food in a UK factory tucked into a rural area (as they stated in their website). They have the same Biologically Appropriate concept that Champions have. It’s possible none of you ever heard about this brand (I too didn’t know them until yesterday). I don’t know if I can post the website here for you guys to help me analyse their food so I’ll copy/past their Technical Information:

Composition:
Chicken (includes Fresh Deboned Chicken and Chicken Meal), Sweet Potato, Egg Powder,
Chicken Fat, Potato Protein, Lucerne, Linseed, Chicken Gravy, Salmon Oil, Minerals,
Vitamins, Glucosamine, Methylsulfonylmethane, Chondroitin Sulphate, Apple, Carrot,
Tomato, Spinach, Psyllium, Rosehips, Camomile, Burdock Root, Peppermint, Marigold,
Seaweed, Cranberry, Dandelion, Fructooligosaccharides, Aniseed, Fenugreek, Yucca
Schidigera Extract, Thyme, Marjoram, Oregano, Parsley, Sage.

Animal Ingredients (63%):
Chicken Meal (low ash) 31.17%
Fresh Deboned Chicken 13.85%
Egg Powder 8.22%
Chicken Fat 7.36%
Chicken Gravy 1.73%
Salmon Oil 0.86%

Typical Analysis:
Crude Protein 32%
Crude Fat 21%
Crude Fibre 3%
Moisture 8.5%
Carbohydrates 27.5%
Crude Ash 8%
Metabolisable Energy 387 kCal/100g
Calcium 1.21%
Phosphorus 1.04%

Coat, cardio & Joints:
Linoleic Acid (Omega 6) 3.09%
Linolenic Acid (Omega 3) 1.07%
Glucosamine 889 mg/kg
Chondroitin 625 mg/kg
Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) 889 mg/kg

Other Vitamins, Amnio Acids & Minerals:
Vitamin A 25730 IU/kg
Vitamin D3 1730 IU/kg
Vitamin E (as alpha-tocopherol acetate) 231 IU/kg
Vitamin B1 10 mg/kg
Vitamin B2 23 mg/kg
Vitamin B6 10 mg/kg
Vitamin B12 127 mcg/kg
Biotin 323 mcg/kg
Folic acid 1.73 mg/kg
Niacin 35 mg/kg
Choline Chloride 240 mg/kg
Pantothenate 20 mg/kg
Potassium 1.04%
Sodium 0.36%
Chloride 0.63%
Magnesium 0.1%
Zinc (as zinc sulphate monohydrate) 285 mg/kg
Zinc (as chelate of amino acids hydrate) 342 mg/kg
Copper (as cupric sulphate monohydrate) 41 mg/kg
Copper (as cupric chelate of amino acids hydrate) 51 mg/kg
Manganese (as manganous sulphate monohydrate) 112 mg/kg
Iron (as ferrous sulphate monohydrate) 309 mg/kg
Iron (as ferrous chelate of amino acids hydrate) 21 mg/kg
Iodine (as calcium iodate anhydrous) 1.58 mg/kg
Selenium (as sodium selenite) 0.51 mg/kg

Sorry for the long text. I need to decide on a food sooner than later to start the transition. In the future I would like to rotate different brands (If I can find good ones), and add toppers as suggested here. But for now I really have to decide. Origin, Naturea or other world available brand? Can you help me? So afraid to make the wrong choice. Any other advice on dog/puppy health would be great 🙂

P.S. As for the toppers, besides eggs, tinned sardines, plain yogurt, kefir, cottage cheese, and veggies what can I add without throwing off the balance?

[InkedMarie]

some to look at: K9 Liquid health, Kan Essentials Benefits Hips & Knees, DGP (DogGonePain), Swanson vitamins Joint Mobility plus, Green Lipped mussel

[Akari_32]

Heart isn’t an organ, it’s a muscle, so there’s really no issue with that. The only problem I see with offering the large amount of organs you have to such small dogs is hat raw organs are high in various vitamins and minerals that can cause toxicitiy when fed too much of. However, you can freeze them into serving size portions and offer once a week or so as a special meal, or dry them and offer a couple bites a day as a treat. The dried organs would still need to be frozen (or shared with friends) as that amount of meat would go bad before it would be used.

What kind of hunting dogs do you have? I would love to see some pictures! And where do you live that you hunt deer? My family’s got a hunting camp up in Michigan that a few of the guys stay at for several weeks each year. It’s amazing up there! And love me a good Bambi :p

[DogFoodie]

Hi Vicki,

The probiotics that I had great luck with were Swanson Ultra Soil Based Organisms: http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-soil-based-organisms-90-caps

And, I also used a Swanson digestive enzyme called BioCore that worked amazingly well for my dog who would develop flatulence from certain plant matter:
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-biocore-optimum-complete-ultimate-full-spectrum-enzymes-90-veg-caps

[Daniel P]

Would rather provide more vitamins and other nutrients to him, Such as D-Biotin.

[Akari_32]

I really likes By Nature 95% when I was using for one of my dogs. The food is 95% of the protein/s listed on the front of the label, and 5% binders, vitamins, and minerals. Seems like a food that’s easy on the tummy, as well, given is short ingredient list.

[Michael H]

Hi everyone!

We have 2 dogs:

Bernie, 9y M allergic-to-life Basset Hound
Zuli, 3y F Lab Mix

and our cat:
Sophie, 8y F Mackeral Tabby, borderline diabetic

Due to both Bernie and Sophie’s above issues, it seems like my best option at this point would be to try raw feeding. The dogs both enjoy the occasional chicken wing or turkey neck, but I have not yet tried feeding it as a whole diet. The cat, who was originally an outdoor stray who did hunt for her sustenance, does accept things like turkey and pepperoni, but for most of her life has been on dry food…which is probably why she had the October diagnosis for diabetes. She is near impossible to catch (the yearly vet visit can take us anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour to capture her-we’ve blocked off hiding spaces as we find them over the years, though once she actually broke INTO the wall to hide) and has a lack of scruff, and at this point I’m really fearing the ability to be able to administer insulin consistently. So, it seems that a diet change may be my only help with this. For Bernie, I can control what goes into the food, and avoid his allergens altogether.

I work from home, so cooking and preparing isn’t a big deal. I handle raw meat for my own consumption so that doesn’t bother me, and I’m very versed in the realm of preventing cross contamination.

My access to pastured/organic items is limited to either very far drives or possible home delivery (have to order a LOT at a time to make the shipping be affordable). For the delivery [ReelRaw] they do have a lot of variety, which is nice, but seems the most expensive option that I’ve come across ($300/mo for all pets, around 50lb of items, still cheaper than whole foods). I do have a butcher shop somewhat nearby, but the only organs they carry or process is beef heart, and the variety of RMB’s I can get aren’t much, as well as they do not carry any pastured/organic meats.

Upon my research, I’m finding a lot of conflicting information. It seems that on one side everyone is pro supplements to add to the meals, which I’m hesitant to do so, as I’m of the perspective to not take any synthetic or multivitamins myself since I feel I’m literally peeing the money away, and rather get what I need from whole foods. I know dogs cant digest fruit/veg well, as anytime I’ve given a piece I find it the next day pretty much intact in their waste. We do own a masticating juicer, so that is an option. I’ve come across some freeze dried foods (Big Dog Natural) that say they ferment the veg to make them bioavailable, which is interesting, though I’m unsure if it’s still too high-carb for Bernie. It could all be a bunch of hogwash as well. I do agree with adding omega 3/sardines at meal time, as I feel that the fats are too delicate for any processing procedure.

Then there’s all the premixes available with vitamins, minerals, kale, sweet potatoes, etc. (Urban Wolf, THK, SSLL Dinner Mix). It’s hard to find a premix without one of Bernie’s proposed allergens in it, and to be honest I’d rather keep the carb count for him down as much as possible, as Bassets are already yeast factories, and Sophie needs as little carb as possible-I don’t think I’ve come across mixes for cats anyways. What dog eats kale in the wild anyways? I have a hard time getting it down myself…lol.

On the other side, I’ve come across a few companies that don’t use added vitamins/minerals (Answers, ReelRaw), stating it’s complete/balanced as is, or with Answers, their own products they (conveniently) suggest to add, which is goat’s milk yogurt, or buy their combination product with veg, clay, cultured things, etc. Bernie is borderline allergic to cow dairy, so I’m unsure if he can even have that anyways. I’ve tried kefir with him before, but the yeast didn’t get any better, and would occasionally have putrid gas as well.

Bernie is currently on Orijen, which he does seem more energetic and less itchy, however the gas has been atrocious, and even though he’s not been really red and itchy on it, still is having a yeast issue (underarms, ears, back of legs). This is a dog that sleeps 14 hours a day on those areas, so not much air is circulating. The gas has gotten better by feeding him less of it, but it can still clear a room. I think it’s due to the lentils/chickpeas-while he’s not allergic to them, doesn’t mean he can digest them well.

So to end my novella for how, I’ll boil it down to some questions:

-Do you feel that the supplements are needed if I use the cheaper conventional meat from the butcher? Or would possibly they be getting enough if I splurge for the pastured meats/organs/rmb? It’s doubtful I can afford both the pastured and supplements.

-Do you feel premixes are worth it, and would make the conventional meat balanced? (again, may not be able to do both pastured + mixes)

-How important do you feel variety in meats is? If I shop locally, I only really have access to beef, chicken, and pork, which I myself am even tired of, haha. Most any recreational or RMB’s I can find in the area are meant for soups and have very little meat left on them. With delivery I can get many more options, but I pay out the wazoo for it.

-Would maybe just doing the freeze dried route be the best idea? Between the issues above and our cat, I’m also leaning towards this route. I’ve also heard that cats don’t dig cool meat very much, and as its the winter now I don’t want Sophie to lose any weight form refusing food. The 2 dogs will eat anything so I’m not worried there. I know I have to avoid giving Sophie all ground meat due to taurine loss. My wife also would rather rip off her eyebrows than touch raw meat, so if it comes a time when I cannot feed them, I’d have to have an alternative on hand anyways.

Thanks for any input!

[theBCnut]

I read lots of super green supplement labels and ordered my own ingredients from swansonvitamins.com. There are a couple commercial ones I’ve used in the past, but they all have things Micah can’t have, so now I just make my own. Right now he is getting alfalfa, kelp, and spirulina, plus blueberries. When looking for a commercial one, I look for one that doesn’t have green tea and is organic.

[theBCnut]

Hi Kayla

Find what? Kefir? Yes, they have it at Walmart. It’s a drink. Swanson’s? It’s an internet supplement business, so you google it. I think it’s swansonvitamins dot com.

• This reply was modified 10 years ago by theBCnut.

[pugmomsandy]

Dogaware.com has a homemade food section and some sample diets. There are also premixes where all you do is add meat and sometimes some oil to. The premix has some veg/fruit and some vitamins.

[Sheena G]

I’ve been really happy with Dogswell Happy Hips Jerky Strips dog treats. I have a golden retriever who’s a big time foodie (I think all goldies are!), so I was happy to find a grain-free treat with vitamins added for joint health. I tried the chicken one first, but then found out my cat (who is allergic to poultry) loves these treats too, so I started getting the lamb option… made in the US, human-grade ingredients, not too pricey at Ralph’s, & they keep my kiddos happy! 🙂

[theBCnut]

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/natures-answer-greens-today-original-formula-18-oz-pwdr
This is one super food supplement that I liked, but there are many good ones. Just look for one that doesn’t have green tea in it. Any of the brightly colored berries are superfood. Bee pollen is great.

[Peter S]

Hi, so I’ve narrowed it down to either Nature’s Logic Rabbit/Tky Meal , or Farmina N&D Cod/Ancestral Grain. Will be for my 2 adult labs (one is 3, the other almost 11). Neither has ever been on a kibble that includes any grain…they’ve both always had exclusively grain-free. Currently I’m feeding one of Canidae’s GF kibbles (lamb meal based). I’m looking for something without legumes (peas,lentils), canola oil, and potato (the Canidae has all of these). And yes of course I do know that the two kibbles I mentioned above as “final candidates” (NL , Farmina) DO include some grains, but from what I gather from some basic online research, their grains are considered some of the highest-quality grains available for canine consumption…I’m referring to millett in the NL , and organic spelt/org oats in the Farmina. One other consideration I forgot to mention is that I”m looking for more of a “cool” protein source (outside of chicken) so I’ve not been considering lamb, venison, etc . The rabbit (NL) and cod (Farmina) are both considered “cool” proteins (though turkey meal, which is the 2nd top ingredient in NL behind rabbit meal, is considered more of a “warm” protein). I forgot to mention that my younger lab has had off-n-on fungal ear infections over the last 2 years(even though his ears stay mostly dry since he unfortunately hasn’t been swimming in a long time) … and my older guy seems to be getting a bit arthritic over the last couple years and has mild seasonal allergies). I’m obviously hoping that a new different high-quality kibble will help improve these health issues in my dogs.
Regarding the Farmina, what appeals to me the most is the single-source protein (cod) and the fact that about 92% of the formula’s protein comes from the cod. Also the ash % seems low(7%), and price (about $2/lb versus $2.5/lb for NL). However Farmina does not add any enzymes or probiotics like NL does.
Regarding the NL Rabbit, I like the fact that NL does not use any synthetic vitamins like Farmina (and most other manufacturers) but they do include enzymes/probiotics unlike Farmina. NL has a little higher protein (36% vs 30 for Farmina).

They both of course seem to me to be overall very good choices…I think the main “unknown” for me would be the grain choice : Millett (NL) or organic spelt/org oats (Farmina) .
Thanks in advance for your advice and recommendations !

[Susan]

Hi Richard, Ive been going thru this with diarrhea & skin problems since I rescued my boy on the 20th November 2012…..are you starting with home cooked food trial or a vet prescription diet?

I started with a vet prescription diet first, I found it easier & ur dog gets all his vitamins etc…Your dog doesn’t have to stay on the vet prescription diet forever but its a starting point & probably will help with his diarrhea if put on the right vet prescription diet…

At first I didn’t want to believe my vet when he told me my boy had IBD caused by certain foods & enviornment.. Patches first vet put him on Royal Canin Hypoallergenic (HP) the fat was tooo high, then poor Patch got Pancreatitis, his first poo of a morning on the R/C HP was good but his afternoon poo was always very sloppy & yellow & he still had his hive like lumps over his body & red itchy paws after being on the R/C HP vet diet for 2 months , then I rung Royal Canin & I spoke with one of their nuturalist vet & she said try the Royal Canin ‘Sensitivity Control’ which was just Tapioca & Duck this worked, it cleared his red itchy paws but I cant remember why he was then put on another vet prescription diet Eukanuba Intestinal low residue kibble, I did change vets at the same clinic as Patches first vet was very very busy with surgery & was hard to get appointments with, but the Eukanuba worked the BEST, his poos stayed firm, skin cleared up, he still gets his red paws now & then but it worked with his diarrhea the best, then after being on the Eukanuba Intestinal for around 6 months & he was doing really well, I started to try commercial premium kibbles they just didnt work, too many ingredients, fats too high, fiber too high, the last kibble I tried was the Wellness Simple Lamb & Oatmeal last month he went real good for the first 2 months, then he started having bad gas of a night & the afternoon poo was sloppy & yellow again…
What I’ve found with the normal kibbles there will be either 1 ingredient that my dog cant eat or there’s too many carbs causing skin problems or sloppy poos, bad wind, so it was back to the vet diet Eukanuba Intestinal within 2 days poos all good again…

At the begining of this year when Patch was doing real well just eating his Eukanuba again & after trying 5 different kibbles that didnt work for him..I started trying new foods just at breakfast time, I kept feeding his Eukanuba Intestinal for lunch & dinner & I started a food elimination diet for breakfast & cause the Eukanuba Intestinal has chicken & turkey, I started with boiled chicken breast as I knew he can tolarate chicken.. I added just rice, Patch had real sloppy yellow poos again, so I stopped the rice & tried boiled egg he did real well on chicken & egg then I added sweet pototo after 2 days, his ears started to itch, I stopped the sweet potato, waited till his itchy ears went away which was 2 days, then I tried a little bit of boiled pumkin, the pumkin worked, he had no reactions, only if I gave to much pumkin mixed with the chicken his poos were softer & more orange, then next morning I added some boiled potato, my god within 20 mins of eating the potato he had a rash all over his chest at first I thought its from our morning walk, he always walks thru shrubs, bushy plants to have his poo, so the next morning I added the potato again & again he was scratching his chest, I looked & the rash was back & that afternoon he had diarrhea like he had gotten back in December when I tried a Fish & Potato kibble, so now I know Potatos are a no no, then I stopped the chicken & I feed tin tuna in spring water, I drain the water & add a bit of pumkin, Patch did real well on tuna & little bit of pumkin, I added the boiled egg, he had no skin reactions or sloppy poos, then I added rice again just to be sure this week & again very very sloppy poos, so I definently know do not feed boiled rice, potatos & sweet potatoes…

I’d try a vet prescription diet first, they are made especially for dogs with diarrhea problems & skin problems from foods, its a starting point…..

Hills Z/d uses hydrolyzed chicken liver & hydrolyzed chicken.. Royal Canin Hypoallergenic uses hydrolyzed soya protein isolate & hydrolysed poultry liver, but the Royal Canin HP uses more oils then the Hills Z/d, there’s soya oil, fish oil, barage oil, marigold extract in the R/C HP, too many oils for my dog thats probably why his poos weren’t firming up.
Royal Canin Sensitivity Control has dehydrated duck & hydrolyzed poultry proteins.
there’s also Raynes K9 Sensitive Gi a few ladies use the Raynes when the Hills & Royal Canin didnt work for their dogs but I dont think Raynes uses hydrolyzed proteins..

I joined groups, either facebook groups or a yahoo groups, the yahoo groups are the best, you get alot of help from people that are going thru the same thing, what foods have worked & what didn’t work for their dogs with diarrhea…there’s a good group on yahoo called “IBDogs” & “K9Kitchen” run by Monica Segal she can help with ur dogs diet if needed & answer questions….
Good-Luck

[Bobby dog]

Akari:
I am not sure about your theory on feeding high fat food since cats do well on moderate fat; especially with his current digestive issue. I would also research the kind of oil you are going to give Alec. There are certain oils that are high in fat soluble vitamins that can harm cats. Your plan may be fine, I would just make sure these changes would benefit rather than harm him since cats have very, very sensitive systems.

And there is nothing like having a good chair thief in the house! 😉

[Lillian N]

the honest kitchen keen is not a premix, I apologize. It is a dog food. I got it mixed up with preference. I thought the different names (kindly, keen, preference, force etc) were just different flavors lol. The Sojos I was talking about said ‘original premix’ on it. The Grandma Lucy’s and sojo are using about 5 spoonfuls of the premix and you mix with about 5 oz of meat. That does seem like an awful lot but then again both lucy’s and sojo look like they are bulked up with oatmeal and stuff. I don’t really know how my dogs do on oatmeal. I saw I and Love and You premix at Sprouts today and it had oatmeal in it as well. Is Dr.Harvey’s just bulked up with dried fruits and veg? My dogs are pretty good about fruit/veg eating so I would just rather give it to them fresh. SSLL looks like it has just the minerals and vitamins, spinach and eggs. However, since I am not really able to buy SSLL at the moment and it’s not available anywhere but that site, I guess I will have to go back to my kibble for now. It’s too bad they don’t sell it on amazon.

[theBCnut]

SoJo and Keen are not premixes, they are complete foods. The premixes do not meet AAFCO because they are not the whole meal, they are the vitamins, minerals, and other things that have to be added to raw meat.

You can certainly balance homemade raw. Find a recipe you like and make sure you use ingredients that are cut to the size that you can portion them out into the amounts your dogs need. Freeze what you won’t use within a couple days. Then find another recipe, so you feed a variety and cover all your nutritional bases.

Most people find it a bit overwhelming at first, so that’s why I recommended some premixes. Sorry it wasn’t the advice you wanted, but it did boost your post up where other will see it.

[theBCnut]

No, feeding sardines a couple times a week would not be adequate calcium except for those sardines. Each meal needs to have the amount of calcium that it needs and the calcium in sardines is only enough for sardines. Look into See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix or Dr Harvey’s Veg to Bowl Fine Ground. They are premixes with all the vitamins and minerals in them for boneless meat. Depending on what else you feed, you may have to add oil too, but other than that they are easy and complete.

[Lillian N]

I’ve been really trying to do a lot of research on this raw feeding thing but as much information as I’ve been stockpiling the more uneasy I become when it comes to the supplements part of it. Most sample diets I’ve seen are for much larger dogs (40 lbs and up) and my chihuahuas are really small (5 and 7 lb respectively) I think I got most of the other parts down and I’m pretty comfortable feeding them on the raw meats/organs part (no bone, they are gulpers and don’t like to chew thoroughly) so I am feeding them a whole sardine once or twice a wk to help with calcium thought I am not sure if this is sufficient. If anyone else has a small breed can you please provide me with a sample diet of what you are feeding your dogs? I want to make a full switch to raw since they do so well on it and I would prefer not to use mixes or pre-made ones(too expensive..) I was going to simply add a multivitamin and calcium supplement as well as vitamin e to the 1 lb of ground meat and organs +veggie mix I was going to make and feed them for the whole month but I read on dogaware.com that human multivitamins aren’t suitable for small breeds. any help would be much appreciated!

[Edwina M]

My neighbor found a starved 6mth old Great Dane Puppy last Friday on the side of the road where there are many deep woods. He and I both RN’s but he is working and I am not so we are caring for him.

His coat is good, no fleas, no mange, his eyes bright and his ears clean but of course truly a skeleton looks like my mom said she did after 3.5 years in POW camps. It has only been a week and the space between his hindquarters is filling in not touching anymore. He is eating well and all functions are normal regarding to toileting. He is exceptionally smart and he is clean with his toileting.

The problem is his balance is kapoot. He is now hopping off on his hind quarters, his front quarters still have muscle from pulling himself along I suppose. We are wondering if he will ever walk again and when he is stronger we have a Vet to take him to. She said at this point he needs rest and the food, vitamins etc we are giving him is substantial. We are concerned that he won’t ever walk normally and it hurts us deeply. Since it has only been a week we will most certainly give it time and then see what the Vet says.

He is a wonderful dog and he would make a wonderful companion for someone. We can not possibly keep him, we have a small home and a small backyard and we already have two little dogs and several inside cats and several outside cats. We took all cats to Vets and fixed them when we first moved here. No more stray kittens around this area. We are willing to spend the money and time on this beautiful animal but hope to find a loving home eventually.

Please tell me about serious neurological damage that can come from starvation. He was on the brink of death never saw an animal in this shape. He is strong in the AM but by nightfall when we bring him in from his huge run cage he is falling over and not able to control his hind quarters.

Thank you.

[Kathy H]

I am not much for the store bought vitamins after what I read today as to where 90% of them are coming from now (China). That just worries me so much. I don’t even add them to my diet. I try to get all of them that I can through my diet. Like the organic kale I buy locally, I wash and spin dry the leaves and then dehydrate them in my Excalibur. Then I crush them and store them in a vacuum sealed mason jar.
Guess you can tell I have gotten sort of picky in my old age, LOL! 🙂

[Kathy H]

I am starting my dog on a homemade cooked diet. I prepared for her the other day a cooked chicken/turkey with quinoa, baby green peas and a cooked carrot. This is why:
She had bouts of diarrhea and started to vomit after three days. Vet said the dog food is becoming an issue these days. It was a new bag, same dog food I have feed her for years but I have noticed her having this issue (without the vomiting) all this past Summer with every new bag. After a day or two, she would settle out back to normal. This time she did not. I had wondered about it being the dog food but after a week ago my vet confirmed my suspicion. Her bowels checked after the very first meal. 🙂

Tonight I cooked the following for her, what I am needing to know is what I put together tonight, is it a good complete nutrition? She is 16 and in good health. I plan on doing three or four different meal batches (freeze the bulk) each week to feed her a change up in her weekly of meals. I plan on making her a batch of fish (baked flounder) with good calcium source, omegas and fiber in the batch.

Is this a good mix of nutrition for her?

Proteins:
1 lb Laura’s beef 96% fat free
2 scrambled eggs, cooked without oil-along with the shells ground into a powder-(calcium)
1/2 cup Greek yogurt for the calcium and the probiotics
Fiber:
1 cup baby peas
1/2 large sweet potato
1 cup cooked white rice (all I have in pantry right now)
1 TBLSP Dried homemade mix of rainbow chard/kale, organic–high in vitamins A, K, and C, as well as fibre and protein
1 TBSP Ground flax seed–high in good omega’s

I feed her a meal of this tonight and she licked her bowl all over the kitchen floor, trying her best to make sure she didn’t miss a drip in her bowl, LOL!

Just want to know if this will be a good recipe to make for her. I am also going to give her some liver for treats during the week, not a lot, and some other things to keep her calcium and lot of vitamins up, not to miss anything.

Sorry for the book! 🙂

[Angie]

Thank you the BCnut,

I will look into another or two raw food suppliers or get a premade and mix in my own.

Should I get some liver and kidney to add to the mixture of Big Country Raw? Also is there any vitamins I need to give?

I do give a tripe blend they have sometimes.

Thank you so much,
Angie

[pugmomsandy]

If he’s having solid stool and no gas than continue on with what you’re feeding. But for a healthier gut and immune system, it could be beneficial to add some additional probiotics once a day or just a couple times a week, and also doing a rotation diet. I buy the Swanson Vitamins Dr Langer’s Ultimate Probioitcs. They’re often buy 1 get 1 free! I also buy Garden of Life Raw probiotics from the health food store. I buy the human products and just share with the dogs.

http://urbanpawsmagazine.com/archives/59

http://probiotics.mercola.com/probiotics-for-pets.html

[JAN E]

Hi, Kristen, have not explored yeast overgrowth, but would like more info on that. Looking at See Spot Live Longer dinner mixes, which seem to be fairly easy, along with following an ancestral guide to percentages of meat, veggies, etc. I’m concerned about achieving a balanced diet, and did find several brands of canned food that do not need the pea, potatoe and rice binding ingredients and provide vitamins and minerals. What do you think about adding cooked meats and veggies to a good canned base food?

[Dog_Obsessed]

Here are the ingredients to Hills z/d:

Starch, Hydrolyzed Chicken Liver, Soybean Oil, Hydrolyzed Chicken, Powdered Cellulose, Lactic Acid, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Glyceryl Monostearate, Potassium Chloride, Iodized Salt, Choline Chloride, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Niacin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement , Folic Acid), DL-Methionine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Taurine, Mixed Tocopherols for freshness, Natural Flavors , Beta-Carotene.

It doesn’t look overly horrible, but it doesn’t look great. I am surprised that it contains chicken and soy, both common food allergens. I might recommend trying your own elimination by buying high-quality dog foods free of certain common allergens and seeing which ones help. I have heard that feeding raw can help with allergies, but I can’t say from experience on that. Hope this is helpful!

[Kari L]

Hi, I am considering doing a raw food diet with my two dogs. They are old and have no real health problems but do have big lumps forming on their skin for the past 1-2 years. Fatty tumors I am guessing. I haven’t taken them to a vet in a very long time.
My daughter has autism and is obviously my priority. We eat 90% organic diet as a family and spend most of our money doing so among many of her supplements.
I am kind of sick of buying crappy dog food for them. I buy them a grain free dry dog food now which is mostly meat then followed by sweet potato which I know they don’t need.
I am not so worried about these two ( I love them but realize they are on there way out of this world and the damage of their teeth wont be repaired) but when they go would like to ditch the crappy dog food for sure.
So sorry for the long introduction but my question is how much does this all cost and how much preparation is involved? I have been buying what I thought was raw dog food at Whole Foods lately but realized it was lightly pasteurized. It was lamb and many lamb organs with many synthetic vitamins/minerals.
Do most people use synthetic vitamins/minerals on this diet? Again total newbie but do love nutrition.
BTW my dogs now are 11 and are 10 and 15 pounds. My next dog I plan will be bigger like a golden retriever.
Thank you much!

[HEATHER M]

I’m thinking of switching from Wellness Core Reduced Fat to Kahoots Grain-Free Beef and Boar. My dogs have been doing well on the Wellness for a while, but I think it’s a good idea to switch foods every so often to make sure their is nothing they are lacking. Wellness is rated 5 star on this website. Would Kahoots also be 5 star? Here is the ingredient list:

Ingredients:
Beef Meal, Sweet Potato, Peas, Beef Fat (Preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Pork Meal, Alfalfa Meal, Flax Seed (Source of Omega 3 Fatty Acids), Yeast Culture, Dried Kelp, Potassium Chloride, Natural Beef Flavor, Vegetable Pomace (Carrot, Peas, Tomato, Celery, Beet, Parsley, Lettuce, Watercress, Spinach), Dried Egg Product, Montmorillonite, Salt, Cranberries, Blueberries, Pumpkin Seed, Monosodium Phosphate, Yeast Extract, Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin Supplement (Source of Vitamin B3), Vitamin A Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate (Source of Vitamin B5), Thiamine Mononitrate (Source of Vitamin B1), Biotin ( Source of Vitamin B7), Riboflavin Supplement (Source of Vitamin B2), Vitamin D3 Supplment, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Source of Vitamin B6), Ascorbic Acid, Folic Acid (Source of Vitamin B9), Minerals (Zinc Sulfate, Calcium Carbonate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Carbonate), Dried Chicory Root, L-Lysine, Selenium Yeast, Lecithin, Choline Chloride, Hydrolyzed Yeast, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Product, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Taurine, Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid (Preservatives), Rosemary Extract.

[TheNaturalDog]

Or, Zignature Triut & Salmon Meal Formula

Ingredients
Trout, Salmon Meal, Peas, Pea Flour, Pea Protein, Flaxseed, Chickpeas, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Natural Flavors, Salmon Oil, Sunflower Oil (preserved with Citric Acid), Dried Beet Pulp, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Chloride, Salt, Chorine Chloride, Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Poteinate, Cobalt Proteinate), Vitamins (Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement), Blueberries, Carrots, Cranberries, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols.

[TheNaturalDog]

Holistic Select Grain Free Adult & Puppy Health Salmon and Anchovy & Sardine Meal

Ingredients:
Salmon, Anchovy & Sardine Meal, Potatoes, Peas, Dried Ground Potatoes, Canola Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Menhaden Fish Meal, Tomato Pomace, Flaxseed, Pea Fiber, Pumpkin, Natural Fish Flavor, Cranberries, Apples, Brewers Dried Yeast, Papaya, Salt, Vitamins [Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Vitamin A Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Thiamine Mononitrate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid], Minerals [Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate], Choline Chloride, Blueberries, Pomegranate, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Inulin, Mixed Tocopherols added to preserve freshness, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Ground Cinnamon, Ground Fennel, Ground Peppermint, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus licheniformis Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Product, Dried Trichoderma reesei Fermentation Product, Dried Rhizopus oryzae Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, Rosemary Extract, Green Tea Extract.
This is a naturally preserved product.

[Hanna J]

Have you tried ZiwiPeak? It’s very expensive, but they ONLY use meat sources in their food, and one of their foods is Venison flavor.

Here are the ingredients:

Venison Meat, Liver, Tripe, Heart and Kidney, Chicory Inulin, Green-lipped Mussel, Fish Oil, Lecithin, Kelp, Vitamins and Minerals, Parsley, Naturally preserved with mixed tocopherols, Vitamin D3, Vitamin E, Copper proteinate

ZiwiPeak Daily-Dog Cuisine Venison Real Meat Dry Dog Food

[cindy q]

Someone on here suggested Big Dog Natural freeze dried food and I am so glad they did, my dogs love it! They are normally picky eaters who don’t finish their food or take their time finishing it they are now eating right away and licking their bowls clean. Does anyone else on here feed it? If you do are you adding anything to the food (vitamins)? Thanks!

[Sallynova]

Hello Ivan, consider nutrition and ingredients. You need to make sure you give your dogs proper nutrition to keep them strong and healthy. The best nutrition comes from the finest ingredients. In our family, we think fresh or dehydrated ingredients are the best because they are not processed. Any processed food will contain ingredients not good for your dog and repeated use over time will effect your dogs health and immune system. Although, processed kibble is so easy to use – it’s not a very good choice for your dogs. Also, any added preservatives or chemicals will have the same effect. I started learning a lot about dog food from this page http://www.dogsfortheearth.com/EarthDog_NEWS.html – if you read their whole website you will begin to think about feeding your dog logically. You’ll realize a lot of food out there was made for convenience (such as canned or kibble). You’ll also learn that our little friends have sensitive internal organs and skin and bodily functions that demand certain amino acids and vitamins and nutrients – just like us. So look for organic food that is dehydrated or frozen. Try to get dog food made from the best ingredients you can afford and not turned into kibble. This way you will be giving you dogs the best chance for long, healthy active lives. We use Dogs For The Earth organic dehydrated dog food and think it’s the best dog food out there.

[InkedMarie]

Hi Tom,
First, thanks for adopting this senior gal! I would not feed that food. No offense to your vet but they get very little nutrition education.
Years back, we adopted a senior dog who was obese. She should have weighed about 25lbs but was 43.7. We used Wellness Core reduced fat & she lost the weight. For snacks, you can use some of her kibble from her daily ration, fresh green beans, we use The Honest kitchen quickies but they’re costly.ni think Buddy biscuit itty Bitties and Charlee Bear treats are low calorie.
What supplements are you using? I’ve used Joint Mobility Plus (from SwansonVitamins.com), green lipped mussel, salmon oil, Liquid Gold K9 and salmon oil for ours with bad joints.

[Naturella]

Kim, I’m glad I could help! 🙂 Many many many good people on this site have helped me enhance my knowledge of most things dog (and even cat, although I don’t have one), and I know you will learn a lot here too.

As far as travel – kibble is very convenient, so if you get them used to something, that will be easy when you travel with your “pack”. Also, dehydrated raw/freeze-dried raw are fairly convenient options too, plus, I hear boarding places will still feed dehydrated, but not actual frozen raw. Some brands are The Honest Kitchen, Sojos, Grandma Lucy’s, Nature’s Variety (I think they have freeze-dried).

One interesting brand I wanted to invite you to try is Wysong. Their Epigen line has zero starches as binders, which makes it pretty unique, plus it is very nutritious and protein-rich, and the kibble is tiny. They also offer some dehydrated/freeze-dried options. Epigen is on the pricier side of dog foods, but I think it is quite worth it. Aside from Epigen, they have other great kibbles that are also small and have no corn, you just have to look through the ingredients. I have a bag of the Nurture with Quail (has some brown rice) by Wysong that I will try in my rotation soon, and it was pretty affordable ($5 for 5 lbs on Petflow.com), plus, you can find even better deals on them on some of the online shopping websites (Petflow.com ; Chewy.com ; Wag.com). I just love their philosophy as a company, so check them out. But all other suggested brands are completely viable options, and GREAT choices as well. Don’t forget that rotation of food brands is also essential for the dog’s well-being as this way they get not only varied proteins, but varied combinations of vitamins and minerals, which helps make their overall diet more “complete” and “balanced”.

Let us know if you have any more questions! 🙂

[Susan]

Hi Kathy, I forget itchy skin, yes Potatos are a high carb & can cause itch, see how she goes with the potato, as alot of the kibbles have potato now & the Wellness Simple has their Potato & Salmon, Turkey & Potato & they’re suppost to be for skin/stomach problems, but Potato makes my boy itch with his skin allergies, thats why I got the Duck & Oatmeal, & Lamb & Oatmeal kibble as it has no Pototes but all dogs are different… maybe try sweet potato first…you’ll see, as soon as Patch eats something that doesn’t agree with him he starts his scratching & gets his hive lumps all over his head & body…
like 4FootedFoodie said there’s alot of good dog diet books, also Lew Olson has a book called “Raw & Natural Nutrition for dogs” it has cooked meals for certain illnesses, its an excellent book & easy recipes & what vitamins to add, like grounded up egg shell for their calcuim…its only $12.80 on Amazon…in the end home cooked ends up being cheaper & healthier & ur dog will be happier…