[Pitlove]

chris- most of the risk of salmonella is to the human not the dog, from what i’ve read. thats why when preparing any raw food you need to make sure you follow very strick cleanliness routines. raw food is what a dogs body was biologically designed to eat. many people who have switched to raw find that their dogs are far healthier and only need to go to the vet for annual checkups. this is however on an all raw diet, but adding the fresh raw helps add live, unprocessed, uncooked food back into their diet to balance out the kibble and the kibble intern provides the vitamins, minerals and antioxidants that the piece of beef doesnt have. it is far from dangerous for the dog though. its great for cats too! hell, even better for cats

[pugmomsandy]

The pomace is the by-product from using the fruit/veg for other products like ketchup, juice, etc. It’s in the dog food for fiber. The whole fruits and vegetables might still contain some vitamins and antioxidants (and also fiber) but are not a by-product but the amount of actual fruits and vegetables may be quite low. Check out this article from Dogs Naturally Magazine:

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/the-salt-divider/

For me, I would take pomace over paying a whole lot of money for a seemingly insignificant amount of whole fruits and veg but then you would also have to evaluate each dog food recipe individually.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[Pitlove]

Your dog certainly could be different, however a normal healthy dog can efficently process a species appropriate protein, meaning animal meat and not corn. There are different sources of proteins that are used in commercial dog foods that while they are a source of protein they do not digest as well because they are not species appropriate. The rX food your dog is on contains protein, however the sources are corn and by-products which are not sufficent sources of protein. The by-products are the least of the problem because if paired with whole meat wouldnt be terrible, its the abudance of corn and rices that are difficult to digest.

I would highly consider a commercial raw diet. A little different than what L M suggested, however the maker of the commercial raw food usually works with a holistic vet ( i know Darwins does) to make sure all the vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, etc are in the food at the proper levels, where as when you make the food yourself you need to be able to formulate those levels on your own which if you are new to it can be much more scary.

Despite recipes and all that, you still need to be careful when preparing your own homemade raw diet.

[zcRiley]

Time to subtract poultry, potato, egg & weird fillers that pups get allergic to. Itching and yeast is no fun. After my pups’ blood analysis came back clean, I made an overnight switch to raw dehydrated with vitamins, no thawing or mixing. By week’s end, all symptoms disappeared. ZiwiPeak lamb formula was a life saver for them, I’ve never looked back. I rotate with their beef and venison as well.

[Anonymous]

Nutrisca salmon and chickpea is grain free, no potato, no tapioca

http://www.chewy.com/dog/dogswell-nutrisca-grain-free-salmon/dp/35031
“Nutrisca is a high protein, natural dog food with added vitamins and minerals. It’s formulated without grains, potatoes or tapioca starch to align with a dog’s natural diet. Made with antioxidant-rich ingredients such as blueberries, carrots, cranberries and apricots, this recipe has all of the good stuff and none of the bad stuff. Give your dog something to look forward to at meal time”!

[Rose F]

I don’t measure them, just give as much as my doggy needs.
I try to give homemade organic dog food full of nutrition and vitamins. However, it’s important to research what you can feed your dog before you do it

[maxcori2002]

My goal is to keep the weight off, keep her satisfied and make sure I’m meeting her needs as a senior girl. My other lab passed away last year. She lived to be 16. I know that is a long time, but I would really like to improve some of the last years. She had some neurological damage from arthritis. So, I thought making sure I switch to a senior food earlier would help. I have already started Salmon oil. We take Nuvet Plus vitamins and I’m looking for another source for Glucosamine.

[Lazaro B]

Do you feel it’s necessary to give a dog a multivitamin daily even though they get there vitamins from there food? What Brands do you recommend?

[zcRiley]

You said no “pork, milk, cheese, corn, rice, flax seed, barley, white potatoes…”

TRY ZiwiPeak Daily-Dog Lamb Cuisine Air-Dried Dog Food

Ingredients: Lamb – Meat (includes up to 3% finely ground bone), Lamb – Liver, Lung, Tripe, Heart and Kidney, New Zealand Green-Lipped Mussel, Lecithin, Chicory Inulin, Dried Kelp, Parsley, Naturally preserved with mixed tocopherols (Vitamin E),

Vitamins: Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Folic Acid, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine Hydrochloride, Chelated Minerals: Iron amino acid complex, Copper amino acid complex, Manganese amino acid complex, Zinc amino acid complex, Selenium Yeast, Potassium Bicarbonate, Calcium Carbonate

[jella]

Finally had my 4 1/2 year old chocolate lab blood allergy tested. He just started having allergies the last two years of his life. I have been frying him hamburger until I can find a dry and canned dog food that doesn’t contain any of his food items. Food items are: Pork, milk, cheese, corn, rice, flax seed, barley, white potatoes. I just had purchased Annamaet Salmon but read it has white potatoes on the bag also. So now I have to give it to another dogs. I would like to have him eat gluten free so no wheat also because he is a larger lab. 105 pounds. I also am gluten intolerant so we try not to eat anything with gluten either. I prefer dry for each day but will add a can every now and then. I am new to this site and love it but so far cannot find anything that doesn’t contain either a white potato or rice. Maybe this is used to get it harder texture either rice or white potatoes. Sweet potatoes are fine. Everyone’s help will really be appreciated!!! Thanks from Sheryl and Big Hoss. I think he is tired of 3 eggs a day, hamburger and sweet potatoes. I know he is missing out on other vitamins. P.S. I can’t get him to eat fresh blueberries. I crush them put them in with his food or try to hand feed him. He just spits them out or gets them and spits them out with his food also. I will also take the names of the dog foods even if they have wheat, but can you let me know if they have wheat. But would like wheat barley rye free because of gluten. ###big Hoss wants some new foods to eat!

[crazy4cats]

Hi Ryan K-

Here is another option for you unless no potatoes means no sweet potatoes as well as white. My dogs do very well on this food. I copied and pasted the following information from the California Natural Website. Good luck!

California Natural Grain Free Pork Meal & Sweet Potatoes Formula Adult Dog Food is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles for all life stages.

California Natural Grain Free Pork Meal & Sweet Potatoes Formula Adult Dog Food is available in 5-lb., 15-lb. or 30-lb. packages.

Guaranteed Analysis:
Name Value (units)
Crude Protein (Min) 30.0 %
Crude Fat (Min) 11.0 %
Crude Fiber (Max) 5.0 %
Moisture (Max) 10.0 %
Linoleic Acid (an Omega-6 Fatty Acid) (Min) 1.1 %
Vitamin E (Min) 300.0 IU/kg
Omega-3 Fatty Acids* (Min) 0.5 %

Calorie Content:
3601.0 kcal/kg
431.0 kcal/cup

Ingredients:
Pork Meal
Peas
Green Lentils
Flaxseed
Sunflower Oil (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, a Source of Vitamin E)
Pea Fiber
Sweet Potatoes
Natural Flavors
Salt
Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Iodate)
Vitamins (Betaine Hydrochloride, Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Beta Carotene, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Biotin, Folic Acid)
Vitamin E Supplement
Rosemary Extract

[Anonymous]

Nutrisca salmon and chickpea
“Nutrisca is a high protein, natural dog food with added vitamins and minerals. It’s formulated without grains, potatoes or tapioca starch to align with a dog’s natural diet. Made with antioxidant-rich ingredients such as blueberries, carrots, cranberries and apricots, this recipe has all of the good stuff and none of the bad stuff. Give your dog something to look forward to at meal time”!

http://www.chewy.com/dog/dogswell-nutrisca-grain-free-salmon/dp/35031

I soak it in water in the fridg overnight prior to serving, also check out what Wysong has to offer.

[InkedMarie]

Boone is 9 with a knee problem (minor) so he gets a few joint supplement that I rotate: Liquid Gold K9 glucosamine, Swanson Vitamins joint mobility plus & green lipped mussel.

Ginger gets nothing specific.

Both get salmon oil 3x a week, eggs 2-3 times a week and Bug off Garlic daily.

[zcRiley]

I can’t find the ingredients list either. It a very general description like “We start with gently cooked beef, chicken, lamb, salmon or turkey. To that, we add jicama, yams, fresh green peas, fresh carrots, blueberries, flaxseed, ocean kelp, olive oil, wild salmon oil, and vitamins and minerals to make a complete meal for your dog.” Maybe it’s on the bag itself.

[Kandi S]

I did a search about prenatal vitamins and if men can take one as a daily multivitamin or not. I was surprised to read what types of vitamins a male vs a female human should and shouldn’t take, the differences in their amounts as well as their bad side affects according to gender and the importance of where our vitamins, minerals, etc… are derived from according to our gender. Then it struck me what about a male dog vs a female dog or any pet and should they be given a different intake of vitamins according to their gender? In male humans for example; some levels of vitamins and minerals as well as where they are derived from can cause everything from a higher risk of getting prostrate cancer to heart disease. The same for females that can suffer from weak bones to fetal birth defects if they don’t get enough Calcium or Foliate Acid. I was just wondering if anyone has considered this when reading their pet food labels and if they purchase different foods according to the sexes of their dog’s and other pets? Below is just an example of one of the articles I read about that states when choosing Omega 3’s in a human male diet to make sure it’s derived from fish oil and not flax seed oil because it has been shown to increase the risk of prostate cancer in men. So, if you own a male dog vs a female dog you might want to consider these facts even though this articles facts are according to human diets. Thanks!

Increased Risk of Prostate Cancer:
While most prenatal vitamins include only vitamins and essential minerals, some include omega supplements as well. Omega 3 is derived from flax oil and has been shown to increase the risk of prostate cancer in men. Omega 3 derived from fish oil, on the other hand, has been shown to inhibit prostate cancer, so it is important to determine what type of Omega 3 (if any) is in prenatal vitamins before taking them.
Read more : http://www.ehow.com/about_5042316_prenatal-vitamins-effects-men.html

[weezerweeks]

Hi crazy4cats you will get this. My 8 rescue cats at our Subway had 2 visitors today. I found 2 kittens under the building. I’d say their 4 weeks old but they came out trying to eat the others food. My 8 soon to be a year old cats ran they were scared of the kittens. The fresh pet food is fresh pet select fresh from the kitchen. It is like homemade. It has shredded chicken,cranberries,carrots and spinach plus vitamins and minerals. It shows the girl on their website making it. It looks real good. I only feed canned and freezedried so I thought I might try this.I assume you have to refrigerate it but it didn’t mention how long it last or anything.

[Tal R]

Seems you are correct Michael.

No potatoes, website outdated.

The full response:
——————–

Hello T.R.,

Thank you for taking the time to write to us.

We made some changes to our Regional’s diets in winter of last year. We’re always searching for ways to advance our BAFRINO mandate, improving our foods for pet lovers world-wide. Biologically Appropriate ACANA features high meat content in fresh WholePrey ratios which provide micro-nutrients naturally. This has enabled us to reduce the added vitamins and mineral supplements in the ACANA Regionals.

ACANA contains far fewer carbohydrates than conventional food, delivering a low-glycemic response to promote stable blood sugar, healthy body weight and peak conditioning. Now even lower in glycemic load, ACANA Regionals is potato-free.

We are in the process of updating our website, you should see changes shortly. If you have any other questions please let me know.

All the best,
Angela
Customer Care
Champion Petfoods LP

[losul]

Hello Aimee
I’m glad my pup raising days (and child raising days) are long past 🙂 or I’d have to study all over again to get enough confidence to homemake even then half of a pup’s food properly. I think it’s very important to start off a pup on good foundation to health early for the proper build of health throughout life. And then to think that someone could be using an exclusive food (most of us regulars here on DFA never would ) through gestation, nursing, puppiehood, and adult hood, one should be even more careful. if I did ever aquire another puppy, not at all likely, but I’d definitely want to see that at least some wholesome rawness was a part of the diet, but I’d also want to make certain it was properly formulated, and well rounded with wholesome ingredients, whether formulated by myself or someone else. Getting the macronutrients right at the VERY least, and not dependent to any large degree on any one formulation.

But I also think many raw maunufacturers face a dilemma, do they add a bunch of vitamins/minerals, many of them perhaps needlessly, and some perhaps harmfully,
in order to be able to put that AAFCO label on them? I think AAFCO guidelines were
designed for and are a must for heavily processed foods, the most so being kibble,
and even much more so when low grade, questionable, and inadequate ingredients are
used. I can’t imagine how nutritionally devoid most kibbles would be without rather
heavily added vitamins/minerals.

But, if you take vitamin E for example. It gets used up with time, processing, and
natural peroxidation/oxidation of fats, especially the sensitive, unstable fats.
What vitamin E added when a kibble is made, needs to be sufficient throughout the
manufacturing process, the time that the kibble is stored, and then throughout the
time someone is feeding the bag. Probably if measured at the time a kibble is fed,
it would be a very small fraction left of the original vitamin E included
originally, but hopefully it would still retain at least some smaller amount. I
think the AAFCO guidelines likely allow for these losses.
Whereas a raw, minimally, but properly processed diet, fed immediately, or that is
frozen in well sealed packages is going to retain most of the original vitamin E.
The food/fats is still going to undergo some peroxidation, albeit at a much, much
slower rate. I believe to much vitamin E can be very harmful, just like to much
much of many other added nutrients. Even AAFCO is concerned with overnutrition.
“Maximum levels of intake of some nutrients have been established for the first
time because of concern that overnutrition, rather than undernutrition, is a bigger
problem with many pet foods today.” I’m satisfied that Allprovide has more than
sufficient of vitamin E in that food for MY dog, with the added wheat germ oil.

Another example, I think you know of the importance of vitamin D in regulating
uptake of calcium and some other minerals. Probably you also know the detrimental
effects of to much vitamin D in supplemetation, including possible hypercalcemia.
And we have both seen how many raw foods, both homemade recipes and some
commercially prepared, appear to be “deficient” in vitamin D when going by AAFCO
guidelines.
I found this study interesting, “Some Observations on the Dietary Vitamin D
Requirement of Weanling Pups” and the conclusion; “Dogs fed diets with and without
supplemental cholecalciferol did not differ in growth rate, food consumption or
selected serum or urine values. Likewise,there were no differences between the two
of response to added cholecalcifrol was probably due to adequate levels of calcium
and phosphorus in the base diet and possible synthesis of vitamin D. However, it is
possible that some vitamin D could have been present in one or more of the
ingredients of the basal diet. It has been suggested that dogs may only require
additional vitamin D when there is a mineral deficiency or imbalance in the diet
(11). However, one study reported canine rickets in diets containing 1.2% calcium
and 1% phosphorus (6).It has been reported that carnivores may not possess the
mechanism of vitamin D synthesis in the skin (7). Another study demonstrated that
dogs fed a nonpurified diet without added vitamin D under conditions of total
darkness did not exhibit bone defects (Kealy,unpublished data). Previous reports
did not record the ultraviolet light status of the environment. It is not
understood at this time how the dog acquires sufficient vitamin D for metabolism.
Part of the explanation appears to be related to a very low vitamin D requirement
in the presence of adequate dietary mineral balance.The observation that large
breed dogs raised in indoor-outdoor kennel runs do not require added vitamin D is
important <b>because supplemental vitamin D, calcium and phosphorus are frequently
recommended and used at levels in excess of the nutritional require
ments of the dog, presumably to enhance bone growth and development. The data
reported here suggest that supplementation of nonpurified, commercially available
dog foods with vitamin D may not be necessary.</b>

http://www.2ndchance.info/homemadediet-Kealy1991.pdf

Aimee, I know you’ve expounded about the blatant abuse of some other raw manufacturers in applying the AAFCO label of completeness on their foods, and I largely agree with many of your points, especially when it comes to all life stages/puppy, and especially the macronutrients Ca,P. etc.

I never expected you to approve of this one either. But for us, the puppy blend, good quality balanced proteins and well balanced fats, The meat, bone and beef organs in the proper proportions, and it’s other rounded whole food additions, and it’s 95% of the way there for us. I have a few more questions to ask, but as it stands for now, when my food supply runs down some, I intend to buy some Allprovide puppy blend and use at least as a sometimes meal/topper for my adult. It can replace some of the to expensive canned foods we’ve been using for the second meal of the day. I see it as a step up and less money too. The first meal will still always be raw homemade, or another solid commercial brand raw. If I did see a long list of added synthetic vitamins/minerals, for me, I’d likely just pass on this food. I’d still really appreciate someone (Dori?) to take a visit to them and report back.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by losul.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Erin G-
I was checking out balance it’s website today. You can build homemade recipes on the site by choosing the ingredients and protein levels. Of course, you have to buy a supplement from them to add the required vitamins to the meal, but the recipes are free. Maybe this would be of interest to you.

[E L]

Bravo sells different combinations. As C4D said above, the Bravo “Balance” on the label is a “complete and balanced” variety as recommended by the AAFCO. The blends are combination of ingredients for those who prefer to mix their own particulars. That is why that version says “supplemental.” They also have a veggie mix in the chub that some will mix with the meat blend. All their packaging looks similar so be sure to look for the AAFCO on the label if you’re looking for a complete diet.
As for your other question, No, we raw feeders do not always go only raw meat. Think of it this way, if you ate only hamburger everyday and nothing else, you would eventually have a deficiency in something. It is on those products that Bravo has the disclaimer “supplemental.” As with other species, human included, dogs do need vitamins and minerals. This is usually drawn from the fruits and vegetables you will see on the label. Or we add them as C4D had mentioned above. What we usually avoid are “grains.” In the very least, minimize them. I myself rotate the top raw (frozen) brands, supplement with a digestive enzyme, pro-biotic, and fish oils. Sometimes I make my own “stews” and throw them into the food processor (although I do not recommend that to the novice, my ingredients are carefully selected). If I have to supplement with a kibble, it would be Orijen. It all depends on how in depth you want to go.
I realize how nuts this may come off. A few years ago I would have thought the same. Then I read some horrific things about the pet food industry and went on a quest.
Good Luck.

[Aj K]

I make a home made stew of ground turkey, 85% lean, chopped frozen spinach, frozen or fresh green beans, frozen carrots & peas, Sw potato(occasionally)cook I low sodium broth until all is soft ( I cook turkey first & mash it up) . Then add 1 tsp of cinnamon & turmeric, those are both good spices that are anti-inflammatory. Then I add 1/2 c oatmeal for fiber. I have a part breed Rotty, 13 yrs old with bad teeth ( soft food needed) missing a back let and hip dysplasia in the other back leg. She doesn’t get much exercise, therefore, the oatmeal, for fiber. I also have grain-free kibble in the 4-5 star cat short from dog advisor.com,for the additionals vitamins and pro biotics. I mix it half & half. She also get Rimadyl & an maintainer joint supplement for her dysplasia. We freeze 3 containers and work out of one. I just have to make it once a week. Then get another container out and warm the portion (1/2 c) in microwave ( mixed with the 1/2 c of kibble) We feed her twice a day.
I also give her Adequan shots once a month.
I am a medical doctor, not a vet, but after much research, I believe the cheaper brand dog foods some are giving their pets are causing Cancer….. Just like the foods, you hear about that can cause cancer in humans.
My dog still gets around even though she has bone grinding on bone. We do all this to keep her lean, so she can ambulated better. She’s right at 47/50 lbs.
I wanted to get a cart for her, but she keeps living longer than we’ve expected. She was a rescue & had to have her back leg amputated. Hope this helps!

[losul]

Basically I think if they are putting an AAFCO label of nutritional completeness on their foods, i doubt they should be doing so. On the other hand, for me, AAFCO guidelines hold much less relevance for well rounded quality whole, foods, and really become much more relevant the more heavily processed foods. kibbles, etc. I don’t like to many excessive and uneccessary added vitamins/minerals to raw diet.

I’ve not seen guaranteed analysis of their products. The analysis they show is a bit confusing, especially the way they have broken certain items down.

I think I can assume that fat means total fat, carbs mean total carbs, it wasn’t at first plain to me from their analysis. But the total calories still don’t quite reconcile?

Going by what i can here’s the best I come up with on the puppy blend. I hope this comes out looking like a spreadsheet, never has for me before on the review side anyway 🙁

Analysis % %Dry Matter Approximate % calories from?:
——————————————————————————————————-protein 14.02 46.6
fat 7.58 25.2 about 51% ?
carbs 6.57 21.8
water 69.92
ash/other 1.91 6.3
——————————————————————————————————-
100 99.9

Going by those figures, the fat doesn’t look out of line, particularly since the product has added coconut oil and salmon oil, already. I might give consideration feeding the puppy blend (to my adult) on a supplemental basis. I’d be interested in how the veggies, particulary the kale, are processed to make more digestible., and if the mung and adzuki beans are cooked in addition to, or simply just sprouted.

Edit: yeah it didn’t come out looking like a spreadsheet, at all. I’ll have to try doing something about that later.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by losul.

[DeAnah G]

Thank you for your response CockalierMom, I was hoping someone on here could relate. I was thinking of doing the same, cooking her own chicken and rice but didn’t know how she would get all her nutrients. The senior multi vit added is a great idea. I will call the vet tomor in regards to the changes I would like to make. Besides, if she is already taking a diuretic why be on such a low sodium diet? I don’t want her to get dehydrated..? I would much rather her last years be happy ones rather than miserable. He also said her heart won’t get any better anyway unless she gets a heart transplant, so what’s the point right? I will check into the correct natural foods and vitamins that will be best for her, thanks again!! 🙂

[Dori]

Marie, it’s a NZ company.

Eve D. The food contains sucrose. There is no reason whatsoever to feed your dog sugar. Sugar is not a healthy additive. Preservatives? What kind of preservatives? Added vitamins? Are them GMO free or are they synthetic?

I don’t feed any processed kibble types food but from what I have read on DFA Orijen seems to be considered one of the higher quality foods so why would you add an inferior product to your dogs diet? I wouldn’t.

I wouldn’t feed this to any of my dogs even if it were available in the USA.

[Eve D]

This possum meat dog roll was enthusiastically recommended to me by several dog owners and pet store staff. I was hesitant to give it to my dog as I am trying to avoid feeding him junk food. But the ingredients list looked ok and I couldn’t ignore all the recommendations. I mix it with Orijen kibble or use it as treats. There’s no denying my dog LOVES this stuff. But is it healthy for him?
Ingredients listed are:
Contains possum meat, lamb and/or beef, semolina, sucrose, garlic, preservatives, added vitamins & minerals | Pack Size 2kg

[crazy4cats]

Hi Oceans11-

Have you looked into any premixes? I have been using the See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix once a week for my dogs. You just mix a meat of your choice with it and it adds the needed vitamins and minerals my dogs need. Unfortunately, it is out of production until the end of the summer. But, there are other types of premixes available that you could try. I’m also familiar with the Honest Kitchen base mixes. Other than that check out this site for some more ideas on base/pre mixes and home made diets. http://www.dogaware.com/diet/dogfoodmixes.html

Good luck, because you are right, just rotisserie chicken does not have all the nutrients your dog needs. But it is super yummy!

In the mean time, it would be beneficial to give him a multi vitamin with his chicken.

[Candace S]

What is the best food vitamins…

[Gloria M]

When I inquired to Blue Buffalo when they get their ingredients from they told me their vitamins come from China. That was very scarey to me. I was grateful that they were honest but stopped buying it. My dogs had terrible gas with it and I’m sure their stomachs were upset too! I feed Taste of the Wild salmon now and my dogs are so happy!

[Lori]

You could try Fromm Gold Weight Management. $48.76 for a 33-pound bag from Chewy’s.
http://www.chewy.com/dog/fromm-gold-weight-management-dry-dog/dp/41590

Guaranteed Analysis

Crude Protein 25% MIN
Crude Fat 10% MIN
Crude Fiber 7% MAX
Moisture 10% MAX
Omega 3 Fatty Acids 0.4% MIN
Omega 6 Fatty Acids 2.4% MIN

Caloric Content

3,484kcal/kg
1,584 kcal/lb
341 kcal/cup

Ingredients:
Turkey Liver, Chicken Meal, Pearled Barley, Oatmeal, Dried Tomato Pomace, Duck, Menhaden Fish Meal, Brown Rice, White Rice, Millet, Chicken, Flaxseed, Pea Fiber, Potatoes, Dried Whole Egg, Salmon Oil, Chicken Fat, Lamb, Cheese, Brewers Dried Yeast, Alfalfa Meal, Carrots, Lettuce, Celery, Chicken Cartilage, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Taurine, Chicory Root Extract, Calcium Sulfate, Yucca Schidigera Extract, L-Carnitine, DL-Methionine, L-Tryptophan, Sodium Selenite, Sorbic Acid (Preservative), Vitamins, Minerals, Probiotics.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by Lori.

[Marie R]

That why I switched to Fromm without grain.
Some of the vitamins in Earthborn are from overseas.

[Akari_32]

It’s very easy to ensure your dog gets a proper diet on a raw diet. You just have to do the calculations right. Better yet, each and every meal does not have to completely balanced. The concept is to balance over time. I makes life much simpler. For example, if I were to balance each and every meal for my 7.8 pound dog, he would get less than one half of an ounce of bone at every meal. He’d totally choke on that (not the brightest of creatures)! Instead, he gets a decent sized chicken bone a few days a week.

Also, I feel it’s hard to ensure they are getting everything by using veggies rather than organs. Dogs to not fully digest plant matter, even when it’s cooked and puréed, but they do digest the organs, which is where they get all of their neccessary vitamins and minerals.

(Most) Dogs are perfectly capable of handling “questionable” meat. Their stomach acid has such a low ph that not much can survive in there. I know many raw feeders up north bring carcasses into their yards and let their dogs eat off of it until all eatable parts are gone. There is where knowing your dog comes in, and knowing what they can handle and what they like.

The only down side I find to making up raw meals for my dog and cat is the freezer space. We do not have the room available for even a small freezer, so the humans and animals share a freezer. This isn’t a problem with most people, though.

The problem with what you are suggesting is that your idea is really not that much better than kibble. Dogs to not need rice, or pumpkin, or any veggies. Sure many dogs like these things, but they are of little value as far as nutrition goes. If you were to just dehydrate meat and organs, that would be different. So long as bones were also offered, that is. Bones are neccessary because they provide glucosamine and calcium, among other things. They can be replaced with bone meal, egg shell, or a calcium suppliment, but then you loose the added “work out” and teeth cleaning benefit when the dog chews them. Also, unpreserved dehydrated meat does go bad, and would need to frozen and used from the fridge. So there’s still that.

It is an interesting idea, you just aren’t quite looking at the whole picture. 🙂

[Anonymous]

I have been using GNC dog multivitamins and a glucosamine supplement for my pets, so far so good.
I use some of their supplements (human) for myself.
Sometimes I buy drugstore stuff because it is cheaper, such as fish oil….but who knows? They are all considered food supplements and don’t have to be checked by the FDA.
I like Endurance products too and they have a dog multivitamin I have used and may go back to.

[Chris S]

I have been using GNC vitamins & supplements for my 7 yr. old Cavalier. I wanted to find out if anyone knew if this was a reliable & consistent brand, or if there were any other brands that would be better, especially as far as vitamins are concerned.

I have, in the past, used 21st Century & something called VitaPet (I think that’s correct).

Thanks!

[Naturella]

Zach, yes, just 3 foods really was hard! But fun too, like C4C said!

And C4C, I’m not Zach, but I can remember reading somewhere that an experiment was conducted with people and multivitamin pills vs balanced whole foods and the experiment determined that people get more benefit from the whole foods (vitamin and mineral-wise) than from the pill version. I can try to find the article for reference if someone is interested, but I don’t remember where I read that off the top of my head.

Now, multivitamins are not probiotics and I’m not sure how that will go, and I know Kefir only has like 12-ish strands of probiotic cultures while pills have billions of active dried cultures and what not, but maybe Kefir is more enjoyable to the dog, and it is a natural, real food. But I am curious to see Zach’s response though. This is just my best guess, and I would more often than not try a whole food approach before I resort to pill versions. But I am really interested in the Swanson Soil-Based Organisms though! 😀

[John P]

Dori:
I think rotational food might be my best bet at this stage in the game, but I have a few questions/comments for you:
1) How would you recommend introducing the new foods I’m researching to make sure Iggy (and Bella, my other Wheatable) can tolerate them before I rotate in a second, third, and fourth food (and so on)? It usually takes a little while for the itching to show up in either Iggy or Bella. On the other hand, I learned very quickly that bison was too closely related to beef for Bella (she has violent reactions to beef). Within hours, she was incredibly sick. So, I guess my question is how long would you wait before introducing each food and how many foods would you feed at a time when you’re trying out a new one? Would you switch to it exclusively for a short period?
2) I have always made my own treats. This started when I rescued Iggy as a puppy. He was extremely malnourished but wouldn’t eat much of his puppy food at a time. Bella, who is two years older, has never had any problems eating (especially if it’s bad for her — haha), so I had to find ways to get get nutrition into him throughout the day when he felt like eating without necessarily leaving food out all day long. I worked with my super awesome vet to come up with some “recipes”, I played with them to Iggy’s liking, and Iggy and Bella have been enjoying them to some extent ever since. They have always been anti-inflammatory, grain-free, and high-protein, with a good fat-to-protein ratio. I don’t use treats very often, but when I do, they’re always from my own kitchen.

crazy4cats:
Pardon my ignorance, but what is a “topper”?

Pam P:
This is great information! Like I said, I’m new to this site and new to the dog food world beyond what I have found in the aisles of my local pet supply warehouses. Please bear with me as I bombard you with questions/comments as I did with Dori. Here goes:
1) What is kefir? I’m afraid to leave this page in my tablet to go Googling for fear of losing everything I have typed so far, plus I’m betting your summation will be far more knowledgeable than anything I can find on Wikipedia.
2) How exactly do you find out if a company uses synthetic vitamins and minerals? Does a limited-ingredient brand such as Acana use them? I’m guessing something like that would be on the ingredients list, but is there a separate list as one might find on a cereal box? I tried to play around with Editor’s Choice the day I joined, but I couldn’t find the purported ingredient benefits of membership. That could be both a limitation of my browsing device and a limitation of the short amount of time I had available for browsing.
3) Do you mix the oils directly onto the foods before feeding? How do you know how much to give per kg/lb — does someone have a guide somewhere online? Again, this might be something I could search online. My Wheatables both have the soft blonde hair of the Wheaten breed, but it doesn’t have the luster it had when eating the Organix. I realize that could be due to many things besides just what I fed them at the time. I know when I first rescued Bella and before I got Iggy, my old vet introduced me to Dr. Udo’s pet line of holistic products. Do you have any experience with those? I believe he has a vegan oil blend (with several of the oils you mentioned) designed to do just what you said. The only reason I bring it up is it would have dosing guidelines. My worry comes from the fact that Iggy is at risk of being underweight (always has been), and Bella is at risk of being overweight (always has been), so I want to be sure and dose exactly according to what they should be getting.

InkedMarie:
Thanks for the hints! You saved me a lot of headache and searches by pointing me in the right directions. If I can use Dori’s rotational recommendations, I’ll need some novel proteins because so many have already been eliminated due to established allergies and intolerances (mainly poultry). I really appreciate the help!

Melissaandcrew:
Okay, I own several books on Wheatens. They are adorable, but that very adorableness is their downfall, which is why I have rescued two. However, I haven’t ever encountered specific literature on (nor have any of my vets told me about) skin conditions due to intestinal problems. I know about the inheritable digestive enzyme-related diseases. Do those also cause skin problems? If so, what kind? I will Google this further as soon as I can. However, your first-hand perspective would probably help me more than anything else.
Also, thanks for telling me you are also a proponent of rotational feeding, although to a more relaxed extent than Dori. This helps me decide that some form of rotational feeding is the next move for our pet family. I wish I had thought to do this sooner.

Pam P:
Nice to see you again! Thanks for the advice on the vaccines. Iggy and Bella missed their last routine vaccinations because they were extremely inflamed at the time, and the vet didn’t want to risk it. I will mention everything you said to my vet, and we will go from there. She has been extremely good to work with me so far. She got out of vet school right about the time Iggy joined our family, so she knows our history well, and she seems to be more flexible than some older vets.

Thanks again to everyone! I’m sorry I wasn’t more concise. I just have so many questions. If you don’t feel like answering but just want to send me to a website, a link is fine too. I’m off to do all of that Googling I promised to undertake. This community is amazing!

[Pam P]

I feed my dog Answers fermented raw food and kefir. My son’s Mastiff mix had such itchy skin she had to go on antibiotics for a wound she scratched raw that wouldn’t heal. I started her for one month on Nature’s Logic Sardine. Nature’s Logic is one of a very few that doesn’t use synthetic vitamins and minerals. The synthetic vitamins and minerals come mostly from industrial waste such as coal tar for one. They aren’t good for humans and they aren’t good for pets. She started detoxifying on Nature’s Logic. Then I put her on Answers Fermented Raw food for a month. The itching became less. Now she is on only Kefir for a month and her itching has just about stopped. The kefir is a detox diet. She hasn’t lost weight. Her energy is 300% higher. I’ll see how she does after another 2 weeks to see if we gradually get her back on food or keep her on kefir for another 2 weeks. The key is to clean and detoxify the system and then to make sure the immune system is strengthened. Allergies are an immune system issue. I also give my dogs organic extra virgin coconut oil, sardine oil, pumpkin seed oil, and royal jelly. Royal jelly is excellent for the skin and coat. Its what the queen bee is fed. I learned that from an owner of champion show dogs. I have also given them canned sardines. Frozen sardines can be purchased in bulk online. They have small bones which are loaded with calcium. If I was going to feed kibble, I would lean towards Nature’s Logic or one that doesn’t use synthetic vitamins and minerals. They are a little lower on the meat, so I would add gizzards and some raw meat to it, preferably a balanced frozen meat. There are several to chose from….Nature’s Logic, Primal, Instinct, and others. I hope this gives you some ideas.

[james y]

Hello newb here looking for a little info.

First a little background
My 9 month old pitbull, maple has recently been having problems. She undoubtedly had worms and was scratching alot and losing hair. At first i was feeding her purina dog chow and she was doing fine. Then the wife brought home pedigree and thats when the hair loss started. So i instantly thought the dog had mange and began treating her for it. I also read that a raw diet would boost the immune system so i did that too. I fed her venison mostly, with raw eggs and gave her vitamins everyday. She cleared up and we started back with the unused portion of pedigree. Well she broke out in hives!

Ok so the dog is allergic to dog food…just my luck. A vet friend told me to try bil-jac frozen food so i did for a couple weeks. She was doing great on it! we got rid of the worms and shes putting on wieght and her coat is awesome! Although the frozen food isnt very convenient so i just googled best grain free dog food and found this site. I came across a name i recognized “blue buffalo” and this very site said it wss a five star food. So i purchased 20 pounds of the grain free wilderness red meat puppy food. It was pretty pricey, as a matter of fact i figure i could buy hamburger for $3 a pound but its so much easier than having to refrigerate or prepare raw food.

2 days into feeding and she seems to be doing just fine. I dont monitor poo, so i cant say anything about it.

Anyhow now im seeing all this bad stuff on the web about blue dog food….and something about a lawsuit with purina?? Is there any truth to these claims about the food hurting dogs or is it maybe a bunch of hired posters or something? If the stuff wasnt $60 a bag i would just throw it out and go back to the biljac.

[Pam P]

These are excellent websites that provides nutrition information.
http://www.natureslogic.com/information/did-u-know/
http://www.petsafe.net/blog/2013/02/27/pet-food-the-good-the-bad-and-the-healthy/
http://dogaware.com/diet/dryfood.html
http://www.myperfectpetfood.com/nutrition.html
http://truthaboutpetfood.com/petsumer-report-review-of-the-month-45/

Most dry dog foods contain synthetic vitamins and minerals which are sourced almost entirely from industrial waste such as coal tar for one. Synthetics and chemicals are not easily absorbed or not absorbed at all, so the kidneys and the liver can become overtaxed trying to eliminate the toxic waste.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by Pam P.

[Becky]

Has anyone used any pet supplements or vitamins from Puritan’s Pride? Are they reputable?

[Kate F]

Hi everyone! Kate from The Honest Kitchen here. I just wanted to help try and clear up any confusion. All of our diets (excluding base mixes) are complete meals that are balanced to AAFCO standards. This means you can feed them as stand alone diets and know that they have the appropriate amounts of nutrients – including protein – that dogs need. If you want to look at the specific nutrient breakdown, you can find the nutrient profiles here: http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/help-center/nutrient-profiles/

The reason that you can’t actually see pieces of meat or fish is because we ground our protein down to almost a powder so that it is evenly distributed throughout the recipe. This ensures that every scoop of food will have protein in – whereas if it was chunks, they could all settle at the bottom of the box and you wouldn’t always have the right amt of protein in every meal.

Our base mixes are different in that those DO require a protein to be added. The base mixes have a balanced amount of nutrients and vitamins except protein – so that all you need to add is meat or fish (cooked or raw) and know that you are feeding your dog a complete diet. This takes the guess work out of trying to feed a raw diet and wondering if your dog is getting all the nutrients it needs. These recipes are great for raw feeders, people who like to make homemade diets or dogs that have severe allergies & can only eat specific proteins like rabbit.

Please feel free to give us a call at any time and we can discuss this in more detail with you. Our customer service team is amazing and happy to answer any questions. 866-437-9729

Hope this helps!

[Naturella]

Welcome to DFA! It can be overwhelming, yes, but sometimes the best way to learn is just by trying some of the different ideas people post that appeal to you, see how it works with your dogs, and tweak the thing or choose something else.

I just posted the below info for someone else, lol, but it is altered to fit your questions. I am not a professional or anything, I can just tell you what I think and do:

I think that no single dog food is perfect, and different foods have varying amounts of protein, carbs, and fat, but Victor is a high-quality food and all the flavors within it seem pretty good to me. If you want, you can also rotate both within a brand (basically switch up the Victor flavors), or rotate the Victor brand with other good foods, like Dr. Tim’s, Earthborn Holistic, and Annamaet, among others – this will offer your dogs a variety in the formulas, tastes, vitamins, etc. The kibble sizes in most of these foods are pretty viable for a Chihuahua to handle, but I am not sure about Dr. Tim’s – the kibbles may be a bit big for a 4-lb dog.

If you choose to rotate brands, give it at least 10-14 days, adding a little bit of new food to the old at a time, and watching the stool – if stool is good for 2 days or so, add more new food, take more old food out, and so on. If stool is not good, back down the amount of new food, up the old food. When they get used to rotating, you can switch brands with every big bag (what I do, but with small bags, lol). For now, you can switch to a brand, then exhaust most of the flavors within the brand just so they don’t have too many changes at once, then go to another brand. Also, you can add canned plain pumpkin to aid their digestion in the process, or a supplement called Perfect Form by The Honest Kitchen (THK). I swear up and down by it – anytime my Bruno has an upset tummy, it tightens him back up in a snap! But don’t overuse the Perfect Form – use it only as needed, and the amounts to feed are on the package, as well as on THK’s website. Which leads me to…

… if feeding Perfect Form with kibble, you will need to add some water to it. It will look like a greenish soup of kibble, lol. But, with that said, extra moisture added to dry kibble is always good for the dog. You can add plain lukewarm water, yoghurt/kefir, coconut oil and water, or canned food (and water). Any mix of kibble and canned is fine as long as the dog’s tummy is ok with it and as long as you adjust the amount you add and remove the appropriate amount of kibble so that the caloric intake stays about the same. So introduce the canned slowly, and not while transitioning between brands. You can also add dehydrated/freeze-dried/air-dried foods and water to kibble as toppers too, canned sardines (no salt added, in water only), fresh vegetables and meats, some fruits, and the above suggestions. Make sure you add NO onions or any grape products (grapes, raisins), some mushrooms.

For my 15-lb terrier mix I feed 1/4 cup of dry kibble twice/day, each time with some different topper from the ones mentioned above. I use coconut oil (twice/week), raw egg (once/week), The Honest Kitchen dehydrated foods (4 recipes, each one once/week), Big Dog Natural air-dried food (once/week), yoghurt/kefir (twice/week), 1/2 of a 3.5-oz can of sardines (once/week), 1/2 of a small can of dog food (right now either Weruva or Wellness, twice/week, no kibble at said meal), and a raw meaty bone once/week. All toppers minus the egg, sardines, can of dog food and the RMB I give a teaspoon of. And I add warm water to the mix in all meals. The dehydrated/air-dried foods kind of require it, lol. Bruno loves his “soups” (that’s what kibble and water and toppers look like) and he is slim, but muscular – his body condition is great, his coat is great, and he loves meal time.

So you can implement some, all, or none of the suggestions, or tweak them to fit your dogs’ needs. Good luck, keep us posted, and let us know if you have any more questions. 🙂

[Naturella]

Oleanderz, thank you for the kind words! You are such an eager-to-learn doggie mommy, it is awesome! 🙂

Ok, let me first say that I completely second Dori’s suggestion to NOT start rotating foods before she is well recovered from the surgery and back to normal, stool included. Sometimes stress, or the pain meds, can affect the stool, so if you had just started introducing a new brand of food, you wouldn’t know what’s causing the stool change.

But, after she has fully recovered from her surgery, you can start introducing and transitioning her to a new food of your choice. I think that no single dog food is perfect, and they do have varying amounts of protein, carbs, and fat, but all 4 brands are high-quality foods and will offer her a variety in the formulas, tastes, vitamins, etc. Like Dori said, if she’s gaining weight, feed her less, exercise her more; if she’s losing weight, feed her more, and still exercise her – she will be gaining muscle mass, which is healthy.

Now, for the rotation – it really depends on how her tummy’s taking it. Give it at least 10-14 days, adding a little bit of new food to the old at a time, and watching the stool – if stool is good for 2 days or so, add more new food, take more old food out, and so on. If stool is not good, back down the amount of new food, up the old food. When she gets used to rotating, you can switch brands with every big bag (what I do, but with small bags, lol). For now, you can switch to a brand, then exhaust most of the flavors within the brand just so she doesn’t have too many changes at once, then go to another brand. Also, you can add canned plain pumpkin to aid her digestion in the process, or a supplement called Perfect Form from The Honest Kitchen (THK). I swear up and down by it – anytime my Bruno has an upset tummy, it tightens him back up in a snap! But don’t overuse the Perfect Form – use it only as needed, and the amounts to feed are on the package, as well as on THK’s website. Which leads me to…

… if feeding Perfect Form with kibble, you will need to add some water to it. It will look like a greenish soup of kibble, lol. But, with that said, extra moisture added to dry kibble is always good for the dog. You can add plain lukewarm water, yoghurt/kefir, coconut oil and water, or canned food (and water). Any mix of kibble and canned is fine as long as the dog’s tummy is ok with it. So introduce the canned slowly, and not while transitioning between brands. You can also add dehydrated/freeze-dried/air-dried foods and water to kibble as toppers too, canned sardines (no salt added, in water only), fresh vegetables and meats, some fruits, and the above suggestions. Make sure you add NO onions or any grape products (grapes, raisins), some mushrooms.

Finally, where to find Victor dog food: sportdogfood.com Victor GF and Farmina N&D GF are the best options, but Farmina is on the pricy side. Victor is pretty affordable.

Oh, and for the boxes – hope she gets some flying discs in her BarkBox or whatever other boxes she gets! 🙂

Ok, sorry for the novel… Good luck, keep us posted, and let us know if you have any more questions! 🙂

[Kelley P]

It’s called Butchers Selects. These are the ingredients:
Ground yellow corn, meat and bone meal, soybean meal, animal fat (preserved with BHA and citric acid), corn gluten meal, dehydrated gravy, natural flavor, salt, natural beef flavor, potassium chloride, chlorine chloride, dried peas, dried carrots, color added (red #40, yellow #5, blue #2, yellow #6), minerals (zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, mangfnous oxide, sodium selenite, calcium iodate, cobalt carbonate), vitamins (Vitamin E supplement, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, biotin, D-calcium pantothenate, Vitamin B12 supplement, thiamine, pyridoxine hydrochloride, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), riboflavin supplement, folic acid (Vitamin D3 supplement)

The brand website is http://www.butchersselects.com

[pugmomsandy]

I buy Jarrow Tru CMO and Actiflex 4000 horse (there is a dog formula). You can also buy plain eggshell membrane. It’s available at swansonvitamins dot com.

[CFJFNF]

I am currently switching to homemade dog food. Where can I find a list or info on what to add? I have three dogs, their weights are 15lbs, 18lbs and 100lbs. Their health is great, but the little ones are developing skin issues. Any leads or advice would be greatly appreciated!

[crazy4cats]

I just took a look at Nature’s Variety frozen raw foods. They say they are complete and balanced, but they don’t have any vitamins or minerals added either. Isn’t that the purpose of feeding raw? To get the vitamins and minerals from the actual food due to the fact that the good stuff isn’t cooked and processed out? I’ve read Hound Dog Mom say more than once that if you are concerned, you can always give a multi vitamin.

[Dori]

Aimee, if you’re around would you please check this forum out. Tracy has a question on Big Raw Country dog food. Specifically their dinners. I’ve gone to their site to try and help her but the foods contain no vitamins or minerals whatsoever that I could tell. I don’t believe they are complete and balanced. At least they don’t appear to be unless Canada has different thoughts on what’s complete and balanced. Thanks.

[Dori]

Tracy I just went on their web site to check their food and company out and my suggestion would be for you to call and speak to a customer representative and tell them your situation and ask what supplement would they suggest you add to their “dinners”. I don’t see that they include any vitamins or minerals at all. If that’s so, then you need to consult them on this issue. Their dinners do not appear to be complete and balanced.

I’ll see if I can get Aimee to see your question and respond. She’s pretty much the resident “complete and balanced” guru on this site.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by Dori.

[Kristin S]

What type of dog is it? I know it depends on the breed. I am currently using Salmon Oil for our 4 month old Bullmastiff and I also give it to our adult dog. I just figured since fish oil is good for humans, probably good for dogs too. The claims on the product seem great also and include helping keep their coat nice, heart health, etc. But, I would be curious to know if it has an actual benefit or is just wasteful.
Also, I was going to put my puppy on a puppy vitamin but since she is large breed, I read a lot of articles against it. For the simple reason that if a puppy gets too many vitamins and supplements, could be bad for them long term. I don’t want to risk that.
I would say the most important thing to consider is that if your puppy is on a high quality food, they shouldn’t need additional supplements.

[losul]

“http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19366336 Diffuse osteopenia and myelopathy in a puppy fed a diet composed of an organic premix and raw ground beef”

“Aimee, is there a way of knowing what pre-mix it was that the dog was fed?”
——————–

Akari, I recognized the name D Geiger as one of the authors of the paper.

It was Sojo’s pre-mix. According to Geiger, the malnourished pup was a patient back in 2006, and Sojo’s refused to reformulate or even acknowledge a problem, when it was clearly deficient when used as directed, UNTIL Geiger and colleagues finally published the paper in 2009.

IMO, Sojo’s current formula is STILL questionable whether the pre-mix makes a complete and balanced meal when used as directed, for some vitamins/minerals.