[crazy4cats]

Hi Matthew C-
I believe the vet is telling you not to use Vit c or cranberry supplements with the prescription food because it will over acidify the pH of your dog’s urine. That situation could cause the other type of stones. Struvite stones are formed in alkaline urine. The prescription foods help acidify the urine and increase thirst in your pup. More water and moisture as Anon mentioned will help dilute the urine.

Struvite stones in dogs are often associated with infections as you mentioned. One of my cats had a blockage and ended up in the emergency clinic for three days due to Struvite crystals. I now feed him mostly canned food, keep his litterbox clean, and have a water fountain available. I hope you can find something that works also. Good luck!

[anonymous]

Did you check the search engine here? /forums/search/bladder+stones/
Excerpts from previous posts:
As your vet will confirm, dogs that have a tendency to make bladder stones have to be on a special diet the rest of their lives, this is a serious condition and it just doesn’t go away.
I would comply with the prescription food for now.
And don’t forget, water, water, and more water added to the diet. Ask the vet ….but I believe this helps big time. And frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate.
“My dog had both (struvite and calcium oxalate), no symptoms till the age of 11, started with UTIs. He has had no recurrences in 4 years since his emergency surgery.
“There is a genetic component and some breeds are more prone to bladder stones”.
“Anyway, if you do nothing else, add water and take her out to urinate frequently”.
PS: Soak the kibble, even the prescription food in water overnight in the fridg, add more water prior to serving. Keep the bladder flushed. Maybe add a little canned prescription food as a topper.
Don’t add supplements unless recommended by a veterinarian that has examined the dog.
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=cranberry

[brit]

my 11yo dog is on a home made diet and tested high Ph and struvite crystals last fall but no infection. Never had him tested before so who knows how long he has had this, my holistic vet put him on a cranberry/herb supplement and told me to make sure he drinks plenty of fluids. I give him distilled water altho he doesn’t really drink much so I make him a bone broth and give him a cup 2xday and home made food with plenty of liquid. I use fewer veggies in his food than I was using as they are alkaline. I bought some Ph test strips and so far his morning urine is perfectly normal. I read somewhere just to go by the morning urine. I also give approx 250mgs ester C daily and a couple of tsps Cranimals (he weighs 50lbs).

[Matthew C]

The vet office returned my call, and they told me that the struvite stones were due to the food, and the only option they are giving me is the Royal Canine food…I don’t understand why is this the only option, they also told me not to use Vitamin C or cranberries pills. I’m very confuse.

[Matthew C]

My dog had a surgery last week to remove 4 struvite bladder stones. This is the first time she has had struvite stones or any other kind, but she did have a bladder infection about a year ago so we are not sure if that may have started the formation of the stones. She also had a urinary infection while she had the struvite stones. After the surgery the vet recommended to put her on Royal canine to moderate calorie intake, but honestly, I don’t want to put her on that food, so I would like to ask in this forum if you can please give me some advice. I plan on calling the vet again to ask for more advise, but in the mean time I would like see what other peoples opinions are. Thanks in advance.
(P.S- Would anyone recommend a homemade diet for this situation?)

[crazy4cats]

Actually, oxalate crystals cannot be dissolved and require a less acidic diet, not higher. The above diet is likely for Struvite crystals. As much water added to the diet for either type is really helpful to dilute the urine.

[Pam C]

My 12 pound miniature dachshund had surgery yesterday to remove 3 large bladders stones. Vet says they were struvite. Put her on the Hill’s Prescription k/d – which I do not care to continue. Vet says to leave her on it for life. Is there any alternative? I would love a homemade recipe to cook for her and to add supplements instead. Help!!

[Cheryl P]

My cavalier King Charles spaniel has a struvite crystal/stone and a ph of 9. She is on antibiotics and has the Royal canine SO food. She has only been on a raw food diet of Stella and Chewy’s frozen raw. We’ve added only 1/6 of a cup of the Royall Canine to her raw for 3 meals to transition her and she already has diarrhea from it. She’s never had the byproduct crappy ingredients in big brand kibble before. Any advice? The runs are not from the antibiotic. She’s been on them before for previous UTIs with no problem.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by Cheryl P.

[Shawna]

The urinary tract infection is likely the cause of the alkaline urine and crystals (if they are struvite crystals).

“Urine pH
Urine pH is typically acidic in dogs and cats and alkaline in horses and ruminants, but varies depending on diet, medications, or presence of disease….. A bacterial urinary tract infection with a urease-producing microbe will result in alkaluria. Urine pH will affect crystalluria because some crystals, such as struvite, form in alkaline urine….. http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/clinical_pathology_and_procedures/diagnostic_procedures_for_the_private_practice_laboratory/urinalysis.html

[Corey K]

I think where I’m confused is that having a high PH and having a UTI are different, and what is important is whether there is bacteria in the urine, not just that the PH is high. Have his habits gone back to normal and did your vet tell you if his urinalysis showed bacteria? A high PH means the urine is alkaline and struvite crystals are more likely with alkaline urine but you said that he showed no crystals, and in addition, struvite stones formation is rare unless bacteria is present. (the absence of crystals can be a deceiving comfort as there could be stones instead) I’ve never heard of using a food to reduce the urine PH or to deal with struvite crystals for that matter. Water helps a lot. PH alone also isnt as important than knowing the PH and the specific urine gravity. (should be less than 1.020)

[Kim H]

My 4 year old female lab has crystals in her urine and her PH was up. An xray also showed a stone. She had struvite stones removed in July 2015 and now one is back. Back then the vet put her on Royal Canin to try to dissolve them and every night at 3AM she would throw up bile. Now he just recently put her on Hills Prescription CD. She’s been on it for two weeks and the last two nights she has thrown up the bile again at 6AM. The vet said its because theres nothing in her stomach and to give her a little more food before she goes to bed. I have had her on a holistic grain free, a raw diet and Fromm over the years and she has never once thrown up but then her PH goes up and she gets the crystals back. Why now on these prescription diets does she throw up bile? I wonder if its the corn or some funky ingredient in it thats she’s allergic or sensitive to? I even took her to a holistic vet and he is the one that put her on the raw diet which she loved but was constantly hungry even though she put on weight. She does seem to have more energy on the Hills but I even told my vet that I didnt think the ingredients in the Hills was great….corn, wheat gluten, by-products. Has anyone else experienced this with the prescription foods? Why wouldnt she throw up no matter what she’s on?

[Lori J M]

My dog had a few UTIs, then had surgery for bladder stones. Even though he had no struvite crystals in his urine, the labs done on the stones came back as struvite.

So, after a struggle getting him to eat that nasty Royal Canin – he looked at me as if I were punishing him for no reason 🙁 and I refuse to feed him Science Diet, I went to another vet.

This one prescribed the new Blue Natural Veterinary Diet WU (a Blue Buffalo prescription) and both my dog LOVE it! It is protein based but low in the minerals that can cause stones. My little guy does get bored with one flavor, so when he begins to balk at his food again (he’s not very food motivated), with my vet’s blessing, I’ll give him some of my other dog’s Merrick which he goes bonkers for. He is also taking cranberry supplements and I have increased his water consumption dramatically. I also fill his bowl only with distilled water. He has had NO problem in almost 2 years now! With so many variables changing, it’s hard to know what is helping. Is it the food or the supplements or the water? Is it a combination of some or all?

So, my problem? We moved to another state and I’m trying to find a good vet who carries this product or one who will give me a prescription if I can find it sold somewhere. Blue Buffalo has no answered my email about how to find a distributor. I did find it on Amazon but the price is just STUPID. Almost $50 for a 6 lb. bag with Prime and over $50 for a case of canned (I feed both). While I was searching for this food, I came across some articles about the deceptive advertising in the past that Blue Buffalo was accused of. If it’s true that they use animal by-products but lie about it, I don’t want to use their food. However, if my dog is doing well on it now… maybe I should. I’m confused.

Since I’m not having luck finding a local vet who carries this, I’m considering keeping him on all Merrick again. Do I keep looking? Switch foods and keep him on supplements and maybe add vitamin C to be sure? Suck it up and pay the premium price on Amazon? Find a different food?

All opinions welcome.

[anonymous]

I hope you will listen to the vet that examined and diagnosed your dog. Bladder stones are a potentially life threatening condition. A blocked urethra can result in emergency surgery.
Calcium oxalate stones don’t just go away. They won’t know for sure what type of stones he has till they get them out of there and analyze them.
In my opinion the vet is focused on trying to help the dog and prevent more pain and infection.
PS: They can have more than one type of stone, my dog had struvite and calcium oxalate, struvite cleared up with antibiotics but the calcium oxalates required surgery.

[Barbara M]

If you don’t want to start with prescription until you know at least add water to his food. To the point that he has to slurp it up to get to the food. Increase water helps if it’s struvite crystals

[anonymous]

How long have you had him? He may be grieving his former owner and home, maybe there were other dogs there that he bonded with. It is very hard for some dogs, especially a senior.
The first month will be the worst. Just be extra nice to him but give him his space, hopefully he’ll come around.

You can presoak the kibble in water overnight in the fridg and then add a little plain homemade chicken broth (no onions) or mix with a soft topper. If you don’t see him drinking water, add a little to his food, senior small breeds are vulnerable to get bladder stones, struvite and urinary tract infections if they don’t drink enough water. Take him out frequently to urinate.

Keep his diet simple, maybe a limited ingredient food, I like Nutrisca. I wouldn’t add vegetables for now, they can cause loose stools in some dogs. I wouldn’t add any supplements unless advised to do so by a veterinarian that has examined him.

[anonymous]

I suspect that urinating in the house has nothing to do with the dog’s diet. As a senior he is vulnerable to all sorts of things, such as UTIs, struvite (urinalysis will rule out), bladder stones (ultrasound will rule out).
So, I think a call/visit to the vet is in order. I wouldn’t change his food from what a veterinarian that has examined him has recommended. Pancreatitis is a serious condition.

PS: I would see if you can collect a urine sample to take to the vet. A empty prescription pill bottle (clean) will do. You only need a small amount.

[anonymous]

My dog had struvite and calcium oxalate stones. It started when he was 11, he had surgery 1 time. He passed away recently at age 16 (due to an unrelated condition)

I would go by what the veterinarian that is treating your dog advises. Prescription food and all.

[anonymous]

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/

/forums/search/struvite/ (per the search engine here)

Come back if you have more questions.
PS: There are prescription medications that may help (as your vet has prescribed). The medications though necessary could be causing a slight increase in liver enzymes, ask your vet to clarify.

[Jennifer C]

I dont know what to do.. I am new here and hoping to find some help. I have a 10 year old pug that underwent stone removal surgery some months ago. Well it wasnt a solid stone exactly but more like a huge pile of sand type of crystals. (Sorry if i dont remember the terms) the vet had never seen anything like it. Anyhow it tested to be 45% struvite and 55% urate crystals. The vet recommended either pedigree pro plan hydrolized or royal canine UC. I am not a fan of the brands and have always fed high quality foods before this but i do trust my vet and dont want to risk my baby’s health. So i switched him from the fromm grain free that he was eating to the royal canine UC. I had him in for dental work a couple months later and his liver level is high. Dr gave him a liver cleanse to take and the level went up slightly after 3 weeks. Not sure if the cleanse did nothing or if it would have been much higher had he not been on it. Xrays and ultrasound were done along with an acid bile test which came back high. Dr has him on ursodiol and metronidazole right now. Only thing that has changed since his first surgery is the food so i am nervous somehow the royal canine is causing the liver problems? I am just starting a switch to the peigree he had recommended to see if there is any change also. Sorry to write a whole essay here… My question.. is there a higher value food aside from this 2 options that i could maybe try? I keep reading that canned food is a help but what canned food can he have? The pedigree and royal canine foods dont come in canned. I had always given warm water in his kibble but i have upped that as much as he will tolerate. I also add a splash of chicken broth to it so he wants to drink it all. Any thoughts on any of is? I have never had serious health issues like this with any of my pups so am really at a loss.

[anonymously]

Did you check the search engine here? /forums/search/bladder+stones/

Excerpts from previous posts:

As your vet will confirm, dogs that have a tendency to make bladder stones have to be on a special diet the rest of their lives, this is a serious condition and it just doesn’t go away.

I would comply with the prescription food for now.
And don’t forget, water, water, and more water added to the diet. Ask the vet ….but I believe this helps big time. And frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate.

“My dog had both (struvite and calcium oxalate), no symptoms till the age of 11, started with UTIs. He has had no recurrences in 4 years since his emergency surgery.

“There is a genetic component and some breeds are more prone to bladder stones”.

“Anyway, if you do nothing else, add water and take her out to urinate frequently”.

PS: Soak the kibble, even the prescription food in water overnight in the fridg, add more water prior to serving. Keep the bladder flushed. Maybe add a little canned prescription food as a topper.

Don’t add supplements unless recommended by a veterinarian that has examined the dog.
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=cranberry

PS: Start brushing the teeth once a day, see YouTube for how to videos, small breeds tend to have lousy teeth.

[anonymously]

“but their dog has oxalate crystals, not struvite”
Where did you see that?
Anyway, only a veterinarian that has examined the dog and reviewed it’s history can make a diagnosis and prescribe treatment.
PS: Dogs can have more than one type of stone at the same time, and don’t underestimate the genetic factor.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 7 months ago by anonymously.

[J S]

That’s an educational article, but their dog has oxalate crystals, not struvite and the diet needed would be different due to needing a different pH urine.

PH strips can be found either on-line or at the health food store. Our Saluki/Husky struvite crystal maker is holding steady with occasional signs of what we call “pee-crawling” which means there might be some crystals starting up again (no blood is observed). The keys to her improvement are using mostly canned wet food, a bit of kibble and extra water (float the kibble) at both meals, and one of the meals we still use the Royal Canin for struvite crystals. The other meal is Canidae grain-free, which is what we feed our other dog. We also use cranberry relief powder in one meal, and a pH lowering powder in the other other (the non-Rx meal). With increased water consumption the best thing is to get her on a schedule of peeing outside every four hours or less, and so far, no more crystals or infections that have been requiring a vet. Her noon and bedtime snacks are also broken up and floated in some water to increase her liquids. We try to keep her pH lower with grain-free and more meat in her diet. One snack is Texax hold-ems dehydrated sheep lung. Hope this helps.

[anonymously]

Did you check the search engine here /forums/search/struvite/
Water, water, and more water.
Frequent bathroom breaks. Otherwise, consult a Veterinary Internal Medicine Specialist.
The food can only do so much, most supplements are crap.
The PH strips are a joke, go to your vet every 3 months to check (urine sample).
Even with dietary changes, a change in the PH won’t show up for a month or two (this is what my vet told me).
Also, walk the dog more, get the extra weight off. Two meals a day, measured amounts, no snacks. No free feeding. If need be, 3 small meals per day.

PS: Nothing wrong with prescription dog food. http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2016/07/more-nonsense-from-holistic-vets-about-commercial-therapeutic-diets/

[anonymously]

If you reread my post you will see that is not what I said at all. No biggie, we all misinterpret things from time to time. Hope this helps.

From the link to my post that you referenced: /forums/topic/food-for-dog-with-silica-stones/#post-83704
“Check out Nutrisca Salmon and Chickpea at Chewy.com”
“My dog has a history of struvite and calcium oxalate stones and does well on it, no reoccurrence in bladder stones in almost 5 years now. I add water and offer frequent bathroom breaks/opportunities to urinate. Keep the bladder flushed”

“I have also used prescription food recommended by the vet with good results”.

PS: I think we are all offering opinions, no one is here in a professional capacity. I see a lot of opinions I don’t agree with, but, I don’t say a word. Unless I think the advice may cause harm…but even then, I try not to respond, as I assume the pet owner will consult a professional for any serious issues.

[anonymously]

I wouldn’t bother with those additives that are supposed to help, I have heard that not only are they ineffective but a poster on another forum reported that her dog developed struvite crystals/urinary tract infections after using one of these products.

[anonymously]

Your dog has a serious enough condition that requires prescription medication. Whatever you decide to feed her, add water and more water, offer frequent bathroom breaks. Keep the bladder flushed.

I would not only listen to your veterinarian, but where he has not managed to stabilize your dog as you inferred “recurring urinary tract infections”. I would ask him for a referral to a Veterinary Internal Medicine specialist and may an appointment as soon as possible.

Has your dog had x-rays? Lab work? Often dogs have bladder stones, they go hand in hand with urinary tract infections. There may be a genetic factor. I imagine your vet has recommended a prescription diet, which I would comply with.

I find this site helpful: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/

I would be leery of homeopathic remedies and supplements, they can cause harm.

Have you tried the search engine here? From one of my previous posts:

Dogs that have experienced struvite bladder stones will often be fed a therapeutic diet for life. Diets lower in protein, phosphorus and magnesium and promote acidic urine are recommended. The preventative diet is NOT the same as the diet that promotes dissolution of the stones. In certain cases, medications to acidify the urine may be required. In addition, careful routine monitoring of the urine to detect any signs of bacterial infection is also recommended. Bladder x-rays and urinalysis will be performed one month after successful treatment, dietary or surgical, and then every three to six months for life. Dogs displaying any clinical signs of urinary tract infections such as frequent urination, urinating in unusual places, painful urination or the presence of blood in the urine should be evaluated immediately. Keep in mind that the greatest risk factor for developing struvite bladder stones in the dog is a urinary tract infection.

Above link is an excerpt from: http://www.michigananimalhospital.com/page/452425598

[Michelle M]

Just curious what type of food your dog was eating prior to the diagnosis of struvite stones. My standard poodle was diagnosed with same last week and had to have $2500.00 emergency surgery to remove 12 of them. One of my papillons may have them as well….waiting for urinalysis results. After 5 years on Taste of the Wild with no problems, we switched to Costco Grain Free a year ago because ingredients were similar. My vet suspects the Costco Food caused the problems. Has anybody else had this diagnosis and what were you feeding your pet?

[Linda H]

In my opinion if you have found that your dog doesn’t do well with chicken–then don’t feed it chicken. Do your homework and feed him what you think he should have. Susan is right about the vets and nutrition. At least some vets. Royal Canin s/o was sent home with us for our dogs urinary problem and after my husband researched it and said as many dogs died on it as those that were helped—he took it back. He paid the $200 and we weren’t told what kind of crystals were found in the urine, but since it is mostly rottweiler I expect it was struvite. Simplicef tablets 200 mg was dispensed. Seems like she is on antibiotics all the time. My husband goes with Rx and I prefer remedies.

[anonymously]

Who told you he was allergic to chicken? He probably has a food sensitivity, food allergies are rare. Did you discuss this with the veterinarian that is treating him? If the vet advises you to use the food I would do so.

Also, there is a lot of information at this site regarding bladder stones. Per the search engine here: /forums/search/struvite/
/forums/search/bladder+stones/
and allergies: /forums/search/allergies/

See my posts, come back if you have more questions…..

[Coops]

Hello, my 9 yr. old shih tzu was diagnosed with struvite stones when I took him to the vet for a check-up when he peed with blood. He was prescribed the Hills Prescription Diet s/d. My dog is allergic to chicken and the s/d dog food contains chicken. Would this be an issue? Thanks everyone.

[anonymously]

Also: http://www.2ndchance.info/struvitestones.htm

http://www.2ndchance.info/oxalatedog.htm

Ask the vet to clarify exactly what type of stones she has, they can have more than one type. The above two seem to be the most common.

Consider making an appointment with a Board-certified Veterinary Internal Medicine Specialist for management.
With my dog with allergies I found it very helpful to see a specialist, we now only go once a year, she responded to treatment and has been stable x 4 years.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 10 months ago by anonymously.

[anonymously]

Please check the search engine here for “struvite” “bladder stones” or click on my avatar and read my posts on this subject , this topic comes up about once a week.
However, I am not a veterinarian, so please check with your vet before making any changes to your dog’s treatment.
I wouldn’t mess with supplements, keep the diet simple.
There are prescription meds that your vet could subscribe after surgery if her condition is stubborn. I would ask about that.

Example: /forums/search/struvite/

There is NO magic supplement. The trick is to add water to each meal 3-4 small meals per day soaked in water, don’t measure, just fill the small bowl, the dog will lap it up to get to the food.
The dog must be taken out to void (pee) ideally every 2 hours during the day. At bedtime and first thing in the morning. Stagnant conditions in the bladder are conducive to stone formation.
There is nothing wrong with Royal Canin Urinary SO. If you get the dry, soak it in water overnight then add water too. Once the dog is stable, few months to a year, you can talk to your vet about adding something tasty to the prescription food, like cooked chopped up chicken breast or some other lean meat.

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=cranberry

Excerpts from previous posts:

As your vet will confirm, dogs that have a tendency to make bladder stones have to be on a special diet the rest of their lives, this is a serious condition and it just doesn’t go away.

I would comply with the prescription food for now.
And don’t forget, water, water, and more water added to the diet. Ask the vet ….but I believe this helps big time. And frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate.

“My dog had both (struvite and calcium oxalate), no symptoms till the age of 11, started with UTIs. He has had no recurrences in 4 years since his emergency surgery.
In fact, I just took him in for a geriatric workup and his lab work was good”.

“I was afraid the vet would want to do x-rays and test his urine…..but he said as long as he is not having symptoms we are not going there (he’s too old to tolerate another surgery)”
“I do monitor his urination habits and check for normal flow, stream, amount. If I note any discomfort I will take him to the vet”.

“There is a genetic component and some breeds are more prone to bladder stones.

“Anyway, if you do nothing else, add water and take her out to urinate frequently.
I went along with the prescription diet for almost a year, since then he has been on Nutrisca salmon and chickpea kibble soaked with water +, I use the wet food too”
PS: Soak the kibble, even the prescription food in water overnight in the fridg, add more water prior to serving. Keep the bladder flushed. Maybe add a little canned prescription food as a topper.

PS: If he is overweight or inactive, start taking her for daily walks, that helps too.

[adam]

Just got back from the vet with surgery scheduled to remove what appears to be 20+ decent sized Struvite Stones from my Great Pyrenees/Anatolian Sheapard mix coming up in about a week. She had been blocked up, peeing blood, with recurring UTIs off and on since being spayed at age 7months (may or may not be a connection, I switched vets just in case).

I am dumbfounded as she has had nothing but 5 star foods since I got her as a 10 week old puppy who is now nearly 3 years old. She has mainly been on Earthborn Holistic Costal Catch and Primitive, with some rotation through Pure Balance Wild and Free Bison, and Native Performance Level IV. I also add a lot of meats, several times a week- mainly fish, sometimes beef or chicken, also whole eggs. She also gets Missing Link or some other skin/coat/probiotic supplement everyday.

Any suggestions specifically on what food or what tips generally speaking to keep Great Pyrenees urinary tract healthy is appreciated. When all of these problems started I went through cranberry pills, vitamin C, apple cider vinegar, probiotics with prebiotics, and many rounds of antibiotics, so none of those could keep her free and clear for more than a couple of weeks.

Or if there is anything I should specifically ask the vet to check for or investigate further before surgery, anything would be helpful. The vet did have me (at least temporarily) switch to “Royal Canin Veterinary Diet Canine Urinary SO” which isn’t directly rated on this site, but at best looks like a 2, maybe 2.5 star food, pretty terrible.

It is frustrating to spend so much time and money on quality foods and then have the vet say the food caused, at least in part, her stones.

Could 5 star food cause her crystals/stones? Should I use the Vets suggestion of this sub-par Royal Canin food? Is there any alternative to surgery that has worked for others that have this many stones with some blockage (the vet was willing to hold off on surgery, it is up to me)? Or, how does someone find a vet that won’t immediately blame the food? I don’t need vet bashing, they are not all out to get more money at the expense of animals, I just need real science/wisdom guided solutions.

[InkedMarie]

I had a dog with struvite crystals, The course of treatment was a round of antibiotics. Vitamin C and to water his food. He did not eat prescription food and never had a recurrence of the crystals.

[Laura C]

Scary what I’m reading here. I’ve worked in a veterinary clinic/hospital going on 10 years. Struvites do not necessarily have a correlation with infection, but rather can cause infections via irritation.

We’ve removed stones the size of the entire bladder, and gravel that looked like pie weights, and in vast quantities.

We’ve kept track of various foods and found and strong food-crystal corollary. We used to see these conditions only in older cats (and dogs). We took out a 9cm stone out of a 24m dog with no prior history of infections.

All our struvite dogs go on prescription diets for life. Client that were non-compliant found that their animals developed crystals again. To infer that this course of treatment is wrong and to “find another vet” is ill-advised.

[Shawna]

Zoe C,

Thought you might find this interesting.
PetMD website, article written by Dr. Ken Tudor
““The solution to pollution is dilution” is the phrase we veterinarians now use to explain how to prevent urinary crystal and stone formation. Time, observation, and studies have shown us that there are no magical diets for solving this problem and that water consumption is key.

The more dilute urine is the less likely minerals can clump together to form crystals and stones, no matter what the urine pH.

Without any recipe manipulations, we have been successful in dissolving kidney and bladder struvite stones and preventing the recurrence of both struvite and oxalate crystals. I attribute the success primarily to the water content of the homemade diets for struvites and the combination of water and ingredient selection for oxalates.

The take home for those of you with cats and dogs that are urine crystal formers is to increase the amount of water in the diet.

That can be achieved easily by adding water to their dry and wet foods.” http://www.petmd.com/blogs/thedailyvet/ken-tudor/2015/november/water-solution-urinary-crystals-pets-33270

[donald f]

I can tell you from years of personal experience with a mini schnauzer who had calcium/oxalate (CaOx) stones, that if your dog has CaOx stones, you can completely eliminate them and prevent them by searching on the internet for the FuzzerFood diet created by Leslie Bean, and feeding it to your dog. It is a combination of home cooked, low oxalate food (typically chicken, broccoli and rice, and certain inexpensive supplements), easy to prepare in advance and even freeze individual meals. My holistic vet gave me an article out of the Whole Dog Journal that explained all. This protocol gave my Max many years of fun life after already having stones removed surgically by another vet. Going further, join the K9KidneyDiet yahoo group. Leslie posts on that frequently. It is a huge source of support and knowledge by people who live and breath canine chemistry. Its topic are limited to kidney/renal issues and bladder stone issues- both CaOx and struvite stones. I am happy to pdf a copy of the WDJ article to anyone whose dog has an issue with stones. [email protected]
Oh and BTW, the K9Kidney group is ultra critical about commercial “vet” sold foods purporting to be for dogs with stones, and recommends none for stone issues due to other chemicals in the food. Home cooking your dog’s food does take a little more work, but it is SOOO worth it for a dog with recurring stones.

[anonymously]

It still would be a good idea to get a urinalysis done at least once a year, maybe as part of his annual checkup. It sounds like he had struvite crystals that may have caused the UTI and it cleared up with antibiotic treatment.
Sometimes the crystals pass on their own (if they are small enough) with a special diet and increased water intake, frequent opportunities to urinate. However, dogs that are vulnerable to this condition have to be monitored.
When dogs lick they are trying to fix something, it’s instinctive, their saliva contains antibiotic properties.
If he has crystals, even if they don’t cause a blockage or UTI, they are abrasive and can cause irritation, especially when they pass through the urethra. That might explain the licking.

[anonymously]

This must be what you are talking about:
“Supports Struvite Dissolution
Supports urinary health
Increases urine volume to help decrease struvite and calcium oxalate levels
Royal Canin Urinary SO Index® promotes a urinary environment unfavorable to the development of both struvite and calcium oxalate crystals
100% Complete and Balanced Nutrition
100% Satisfaction Guaranteed
Canine Urinary SO Small Dog is a complete and balanced diet specifically designed for small breed adult dogs. It is formulated to aid in the nutritional management of calcium oxalate and struvite urolithiasis.”
– See more at: https://www.royalcanin.com/products/royal-canin-veterinary-diet-canine-urinary-so-small-dog-dry-dog-food-8.8-lb-bag/488488#sthash.XwQ2ioGa.dpuf

[theBCnut]

If they were struvite crystals, then it’s likely that the infection caused them and clearing up the infection is the most important thing. Adding D-mannose to the diet causes e. coli to let go of the bladder walls, so if it’s an e. coli infection that would help. In the short term, I would stick with the prescription diet, but if it doesn’t help, be ready to try something else. As everyone has said, do everything you can to make sure your dog is getting plenty of water.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Georgia-
One of the most important things you can do for your dog is to add as much moisture to her diet as possible. Are you feeding the Hill’s canned or dry Urinary food? If dry, see if your vet oks adding some of the Rx wet food to the dry. Also add water to her meals and make sure she gets plenty of bathroom breaks. Water will keep her urine diluted and flush the crystals away. Often there is an infection involved when a dog is producing urinary crystals. Did you get an antibiotic for the infection?

Also, please be careful feeding supplements to a pet who is on prescription food. They can over acidify your pup’s pH and cause a different type of crystal in the urinary tract that cannot be dissolved like the struvites can. Check with your vet first.

[katyandjewel]

I have not experienced kidney disease with my sibi, but she was concently getting struvite stones and we switched her to bottle water because our tap water is so hard, and that took care of her stones. Has your holistic vet suggestions on this to you. So sorry to hear about your baby.

[anonymously]

Check out Nutrisca Salmon and Chickpea at Chewy.com
My dog has a history of struvite and calcium oxalate stones and does well on it, no reoccurrence in bladder stones in almost 5 years now. I add water and offer frequent bathroom breaks/opportunities to urinate. Keep the bladder flushed.
I have also used prescription food recommended by the vet with good results.

Ingredients
Salmon, Menhaden Fish Meal, Peas, Chickpeas, Salmon Meal, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Pea Fiber, Flaxseed, Calcium Carbonate, Salmon Oil (a source of DHA), Dicalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Dried Eggs, Natural Flavor, Tomato Pomace, Carrots, Cranberries, Apricots, Choline Chloride, Zinc Proteinate, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Iron Proteinate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Folic Acid, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Proteinate, Biotin, Selenium Yeast, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Rosemary Extract

[EC P]

Hi I have an Aussie/Border mix. He is 16 and just had 2nd surgery for struvite bladder stones. The surgery is costly, but he comes through it quite easily (except for the cone) and has no surgery-related issues after a couple weeks. I fed Science Diet at $80 – 90 per 25 lb bag, which lasted as well as a lower cost food. He learned to eat it & admittedly I added stuff a couple times a week. Post 2nd surgery we are going with the Royal Canin, since the SD didn’t prevent reoccurance. I have not found a “cure” for stones . . . like in people they can & often will reoccur. My boy is happy and until he starts to strain, I notice no difference in his behavior – seemingly, no pain or discomfort, though thinking about it, he begins to lick his belly around the bladder area. . . hmm will watch for that now. Its the protein, magnesium and potassium that you’ve got to watch, so if you want to try it natural let me know how that works. I didn’t opt for the ph strips, but did insure that he got quite a bit more water. I’m a full-time graduate student, so I know what this food cost does to the budget. Good Luck!

[Debbie J]

My baby Penny recently had bladder stone surgery. The made me change her diet to Cd and then Royal Canian SO. Penny hatted it. Started researching. First mistake, increase water
Second mistake dry food

Now I make Penny a very healthy non grain food with fresh veggies. I grind my own hormone and antibiotic free chicken thighs and get her nice beef. Going and cook. Add wild rice, which is a grass seed. Zucchini, sweet potato, green beans, squash, pumpkin are all great to add. I keep the bulk in the freezer to keep fresh. Penny gets a cup of meat and veggies with a cup of water added. If she wants the yummy meat, she must drink water.

I will find a more holestic vet in my area.

No grains, extra water and check ph of urine.

[Jaclyn C]

Hello,

This is my first time posting so I apologize if I should have started a new thread. I have read many of these forums, but haven’t found anyone with a similiar case.

My Lhasa Apso is 13 years old. She has had 3 surgeries for bladder stones and despite following all instructions/diet from different vets her entire life, she has them for a 4th time.

The first surgery-stones were struvite and she was already on Urinary SO which wasn’t working. Six months later she had stones again even after continuing the Urinary SO and had to have another surgery. This time they were Calcium Oxalate. Vet said they never seen that happen before. The 3rd time it was Oxalate again and now I have no idea what type they will be, but I am concerned because the last surgery was really hard on her. Her liver level has always been elevated so the last time they couldn’t give her good pain meds so she was in so much pain after the surgery. I can’t stand to see her go through that again. She doesn’t have a UTI and has had the current stones for over a year. The vet said that they are extremely small, so just to keep an eye on them since my dog is acting normal with no crystals in her urine or UTI.

The Urinary SO seems to give my dog bad food allergies, but she has been on it all her life. It obviously hasn’t done anything to help her, but only make her overweight and itchy with dry skin. I have tried multiple vets, all telling me different things more like they are experimenting with her. At this point I am beyond fustrated and don’t know what to do. My dog has other health problems such as a bad cough which won’t go away as well as shaky legs with athritis. She seems happy and tries to play, but I feel like switching her food will help her lose weight which might help with the cough and strain on her legs. I have no clue what food to feed her because all the vets say the reduced calorie Urinary SO or another Urinary prescription diet to treat another type of stone. None of the vets seem to know what to do and and sometimes diagree with each other. Does anyone have any recommendations? At this point I feel like changing foods will help her more than hurt her. Thoughts?

Thank you in advance.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Deborah-
Sorry to hear about your dog’s condition. Is she currently eating the Rx food? If yes, I would caution you on feeding any supplements without clearing them with your vet. They could actually over acidify her pH causing calcium oxalate stones instead, which are even worse because they cannot be dissolved like the Struvite type.

Like you mentioned, water is of the utmost importance along with plenty of bathroom breaks to keep the urine diluted and the bladder clear. Also, after my ordeal with my cat, I started feeding three smaller meals per day to keep the pH level more even.

The Rx food not only helps lower the pH, it also has the proper amount of the magnesium. phosphate and calcium minerals to keep the crystals at bay. I’m assuming you are talking about feeding the kibble, not canned. If yes, have you asked the vet if you could at least supplement with a little canned or fresh foods safely to make the food more appetizing and healthy?

Does your pup have recurrent infections? I was led to believe most of the time crystals and/or stones are associated with uti’s in dogs. And once those are gone, the stones are gone.

There are some really good links on this site on this condition. I’m on my iPad now and don’t know how to post them. If you use the search bar and type Minnesota, you can find a great one from their university on bladder stones. Best wishes!

[zcRiley]

KEY NOTES: Not enough liquids consumed during the day is “probably” the most common cause for those benign struvite crystals being observed in your dog’s urine. A basic pH urine encourages struvite crystal formation, urine with a pH greater than 7. It might also be possible for pets forced to eat a bizarre vegan-type diet that supplied only plant proteins to produce basic urine that was more likely to precipitate struvite crystals. Example: diets that rely primarily on soy protein and beans rather than MEAT to meet the pet’s protein requirements – never a good idea.

ZiwiPeak is better than puppy food; I’m sure Cookie loves that you keep it around as treats or sprinkled on top of her meals! Buy it in small bags so it doesn’t dry out or go stale/mold on you. The word “puppy” in front of the word “food” is a whole marketing issue I won’t go into.

Royal Canin, Iams and Hills all have by-products and/or bad grains. If this was all that was left on Earth as dog food, I’d switch to human food. Of course, my opinion only. Chewy’s will refund your money on everything, just press the “Chat Live” button.

I forgot if I suggested ZIGNATURE ZSSENTIALS to you, also for your perusal on Chewy.com. It’s affordable ($9.99/4 lb bag) and:
-Grain-free and multi-protein formula
-Gluten-free diet
-No potato, chicken or eggs
-No guar gum or carrageenan
-Complete and balanced diet for all life stages.
My pups have been on it for over a year after becoming diarrhetic to Orijens Adult. They are now 75 lbs of lean, mean, loving machines LOL. And yes, they get urine tests done twice a year.

Also to add more moisture to Cookie’s diet (put on top or to the side of dry, the case of 12 will last a looong time, refrigerate an opened can):
Canine Caviar 95% Venison Grain-Free Canned Dog Food OR
ZiwiPeak Daily-Dog Cuisine Lamb Or Beef Canned Dog Food

Affordability, long term health issues, ingredients plus either “striving on” or merely “surviving on” certain foods are all controversial topics that these forums help further our insight.

[anonymously]

“We assumed the grain allergy. However with Cystine stones, he has a genetic defect and cannot process animal protein”.

Don’t assume anything regarding allergies. Unless the dog has been examined and tested by a board certified dermatologist. http://www.acvd.org/

The diets recommended for struvite or calcium oxalate bladder stones may not apply to your dog, the type of stones he has require a specific diet and treatment (like the one your vet recommended).

I would work closely with your veterinarian or find a veterinarian that specializes in Internal Medicine, do you have a veterinary hospital in your area? Your dog has a serious condition, this is not a DIY (imo)
http://www.caninecystinuria.com/Treatment.html http://www.dogaware.com/articles/wdjotherstones.html#cystine

PS: Have you tried the search engine at this site? Lots of information on “allergies” and “bladder stones”

[Donna B]

I’m so confused. The only problem my puppy has is that he urinates all the time…even in his sleep. I was told he has struvite stones with bacteria. Told he need to be on the Hills c/d dog food. My vet said he would need to be on it for the rest of his life. Ummm…29.99 for 8 pounds!! Reading a lot on here about name brand foods and lots of water. Might try this first. Did anybody else have problems with their dog leaking all the time?