[Patricia A]

I also have the same question with the fat in raw primal vs. the freeze dried of the same protein. I love the freeze dried but have a chubby Chi that needs less fat. Although I keep reading that it’s not the fat but the carbs which cause weight gain. Pancreatitis is a problem though for some dogs with high fat.
Written on Primal’s website it states that once rehydrated Nutritionally, a raw nugget is the same as a freeze-dried nugget when rehydrated or consumed with water! Does that mean the fat is the same as the raw?
Hope someone can explain about raw vs freeze dried with the same recipe.
I was under the impression that once hydrated the fat in the freeze dried would be the SAME as the raw?

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Patricia A.

[Reese B]

Hi,
I was looking for a lower fat raw food for my dog and noticed the primal raw rabbit recipe had 17% protein and only 5% fat. This looked like a good option. Since I don’t feed raw regularly, I thought I’d start with the freeze dried version but noticed that the protein listed was 53% and the fat was 28%. The ingredients were the same, the only difference is supposed to be that one is freeze dried.
I know that because the freeze dried product has no moisture that the values would be higher, but his seemed too high.
I calculated the raw version to a dry matter content as shown in this article: /choosing-dog-food/dry-matter-basis/

and I got that the freeze dried version should have 58% protein and 17% fat. Big difference from what’s listed on the freeze dried rabbit.

I email primal in a very detailed email explaining my question and asking how they determined the dry value as it didn’t match up to what I calculated. I got a very disappointing response back saying that “because the moister is removed, the value is higher in the freeze dried but both product were exactly the same.” It was very condescending and it seemed like they didn’t even read my e-mail as I had explained that I was aware of that.

Anyway, my question is, does the values that primal lists on their raw and freeze dried product make sense? Did I do the math wrong? Links for both products below.

Canine Raw Frozen Nuggets <br> Rabbit

Canine Freeze-Dried Nuggets <br> Rabbit

[Eve M]

After consideration, I’m going back to Orijen although the contaminant numbers are high. I will supplement it with Primal frozen raw and hope the mixture isn’t too much of either. There are no lentils or peas in Orijen.

I agree with you Carol. It seems like someone could tweak the recipe and leave out tapioca, peas, lentils and potatoes.

Quinoa? Brown rice? Are these grains on par with lentils?

Eve

[Patricia A]

Thank you Lee. Also from NY here. I have the opposite problem with my picky one who ONLY wants to eat kibble topped with home made food such as boiled chicken, salmon, steak etc which I don’t always have available. On days when she only gets the kibble topped with freeze dried she holds out eating so I feed her later. She realizes she better start eating because kitchen is closing for the day.lol And it’s NOT the taste of the food because I’ve been through so many different canned foods and all the different proteins of the stellas and Primal that I could open up my own Pet Supply store. Even tried human grade Stella chewys new stews which again she turned her nose up too.
I actually bought Rawabble Beef thinking it might be better for my eight year old Chihuahua who loves all food but is a little chubby. It was right next to the Primal and Stellas.But then took it back same day because didn’t read enough people on this board feeding it and thought I better stick to a the Primal and Stella’s until I get more feedback that it’s a good quality freeze dried.
Running out of the Primal turkey/Sardine so will pick up a bag of the Rawablle beef which shows AVERAGE fat. I could never feed the beef with either Primal or Stella’s because of the high fat with that recipe. Maybe my picky one will even love the beef .Thank’s again for your feedback on this food.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Patricia A.

[Patricia A]

Pitlove my picky one won’t touch actual raw. I’m shopping and cooking for my elderly parents and I need the convenience of the bags of freeze dried . My 16 year old is hungry earlier. My eight year old will eat all day if I let her and my three year old will only pick if she’s not fed early evening. The younger two are the only ones that gets the freeze dried so it’s affordable for me. These are the ingredients in the Turkey/Primal :Turkey, Turkey Necks, Whole Sardines, Turkey Hearts, Turkey Livers, Organic Collard Greens, Organic Squash, Cranberries, Blueberries, Organic Pumpkin Seeds, Organic Celery, Organic Sunflower Seeds, Montmorillonite Clay, Organic Apple Cider Vinegar, Organic Cilantro, Organic Ginger, Organic Coconut Oil, Organic Quinoa Sprout Powder, Alfalfa,Dried Organic Kelp, Vitamin E Supplement, Mixed Tocopherols (natural preservative).
Is Stella’s better with the salmon/Cod recipe? Ground salmon with bones, ground cod with bones, cod liver oil, pumpkin seed, organic cranberries, organic spinach, organic broccoli, organic beets, organic carrots, organic squash, organic blueberries, fenugreek seed, potassium chloride, tocopherols (preservative), sodium phosphate, choline chloride, dried Pediococcus acidilactici fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Bifidobacterium longum fermentation product, dried Bacillus coagulans fermentation product, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, taurine, calcium carbonate, vitamin E supplement, thiamine mononitrate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, sodium selenite, niacin supplement, d-calcium pantothenate, riboflavin supplement, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid.
Appreciate any feedback in a better raw.

[pitlove]

Patricia-

Will they eat actual raw instead of freeze dried raw? You could probably save some money buying cuts of meat at the grocery store. Primal is so expensive and full of random veggies that don’t really make much of a difference for the dog.

[Patricia A]

Thank you Bill for the info and reassurance to stick with the raw. I have a base of Stella Chewy’s Kibble but it a VERY small portion of their diet. I rotate with Primal duck, rabbit, turkey Sardine and venison. They only like rehydrated freeze dried. Stella’s I only give the chicken and salmon cod. They also get a little egg in morning. When we have steak or salmon they get lucky and have that as a topper. I have three chihuahuas’. One being 16 who is still very spunky. She took a liking to the Stella’s kibble small breed. I switched from Fromm because I thought it was a better kibble. So it’s great to have all three on the same one.As said it’s only used as less then 1/8 cup . The 16 year old will not eat any of the raw. She lovers a topper of wellness core chicken/broccoli only. I just hate the carrageenan in it but at 16 I’m glad she eats enthusiastically. Trying hard to get my slightly chubby eight year old to lose some weight. She gets a lot of exercise and eliminated the origen treat for her. Cut down on everything but still not losing. Primal shows lower then average carbs as well as Stella’s.. I have yet to find a freeze dried that has NO carbs. Suggestions appreciated.
Crazy4cats I think your’e right. I’m thinking of all the crappy dog foods sold at supermarkets that have very little meat and this taurine deficiency was not a problem. Hope we find out the link soon. Until then legumes, potatoes, pea protein etc. should be far down the list of ingredients just in case.

[Debbie D]

Raw is critical for allergies/fungus. I used to be vegetarian so i understand (10 yrs but had health problems.) Primal Raw is freeze dried so there is no smell or mess. Just add it to the vegetables you are already feeding. I use the freeze dried cubes.
My dogs won’t eat Primal cubes by itself, they are too spoiled, so I add it to what ever else I am feeding.
Since I switched to raw 10 years ago, our dogs have had no deficiencies or medical issues. Absolutely ZERO! We don’t get fancy, just raw meat and veggies.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by Debbie D.

[Debbie D]

To solve this problem and gain enough knowledge (and spend enough $$$$ at vet clinics) it took me 10 years. I am glad to say we have kicked this problem 100%. I am very sad though that my pets had to suffer for 10 years before we found the solution. Several of the answers here are on the mark, however, there are some missing pieces of information. Here are the components of the solution that results in the ear problems clearing up in addition to every other allergy issue a dog may have. You can’t do just one thing, you have to address all aspects of care:
1. Diet
2. Flea control poisons
3. Heartworm and Parasite poisons
4. Vaccinosis
5. Chiropractic
6. Vet type
We solved this problem when we started going to alternative vets and Chiropractic vets. I spent thousands at the veterinary clinic, hundreds at the alternative clinics and next to nothing at the Chiropractic vets. The alternative vets (3 of them) were all indispensable. One used Chinese herbs, another acupuncture and another (the best) used a combination of modalities including cold laser, acupuncture, Chiropractic, nutrition, and herbs. The Chiropractic vets gave the most bang for the buck but it took to a visit to five different ones to settle on our favorites. Yes, hard to believe, but a spinal adjustment can be miraculous in calming down allergies. The older the dog the more likely they need this treatment. Some Chiropractors also have cold laser treatments. Go to AVCA.org to find a pet Chiropractor. Some states require Chiros to be vets (like Texas) and others (Oklahoma) allow human Chiros to treat pets. There are advantages both ways.

So bottom line, we now feed NO commercial food but instead feed raw chicken plus a home cooked chicken and vegetable stew. We freeze it in daily portion size containers. This raw food supplemented diet eliminated all parasites (fleas, ticks, heart worms, intestinal worms, etc.) thereby eliminating our need for poisons. Raw diet also eliminated our need for vaccines (titer testing proved this.) Eliminating vaccines eliminated the need for steroid therapy that the vets kept pushing on our dogs. Eliminating flea control like Nextgard, Trifexis, Comfortis, Frontline, and Advantage was a major step forward. These chemicals/drugs were a major cause of itching in our Pugs and we tried them all. These chemicals also caused sores and weeping irritated skin.
Once our dogs were already having out of control skin issues we had to use shampoos and aloe vera in addition to dietary changes. We switched to duck and fed only (USA) Merrick commercial dog food and this was a major improvement. However, the real change came with the raw. We eventually eliminated the Merrick except for traveling/hiking and emergencies. It took about 3 months to a year of proper feeding to stop the fleas dead in their tracks. We used flea combs and Ark Naturals Neem Shampoo to check for fleas.
In one dog, we had to get a prescription of Apoquel (new drug only at select vets) to stop the itching (instead of dangerous steroids.) This was an emergency measure because itching causes scratching which leads to staph infections in ears and on the skin/belly.
The ear itching and yeast infection eventually led to staph infection also from the dogs scratching their ears. To clear this up we used a combination of products over several months. I will list the products and their purpose.
1. Zymox enzymatic ear solution (green bottle) for yeast/bacteria
2. Olive Oil drops – extra virgin for yeast/bacteria
3. Colloidal Silver (10ppm) dropped in ears for yeast/infection
4. 7-Day feminine antifungal cream (yeast only, outside of ears and bumpy noses/folds)
Zymox was best for yeast. Olive oil was the best for everything including swelling of the ear canal. Colloidal Silver kicked the secondary infections almost overnight.
Moist ears is a side effect of yeast infection, not a cause. Swimmers ear is a result not of the water but of having a dietary systemic yeast infection before your dog ever goes swimming.
Taking our dogs swimming in a creek or lake had no effect on the ears, however, swimming in a chlorinated pool did aggravate the ears and skin.
The feminine yeast cream has been a real life saver. We use the weakest version and only apply it to ear flaps. If you want Miconazole ear drops, you’ll have to go to the vet for that. But honestly, the olive oil is just as good. The problem with prescription drugs is that they usually only treat one bug, unlike the first three items on my list.
I hope someone finds this useful.
Since this is a dog food website, i will give my two cents on dog food brands (never feed dry): Highest quality, readily available brands are Merrick, Nature’s Variety, Primal Freeze Dried Raw, and Orijen. No, I would never feed Blue. I’ve been in the pet business for most of my life and I know secrets about many brands that will make your skin crawl. I will not lookup or recommend any brands other than the ones I listed.
I am chronicling my personal experiences on a blog so feel free to visit as you like. Snortlepuss.com
DogFoodAdvisor.com is one of the best resources a person can have for learning about brands. Please take the ratings seriously and only feed to top rated foods.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by Debbie D. Reason: missing info

[Patricia A]

Deborah it’s gets tricky feeding small dogs like ours. They’re diet is so limited in the amount they eat that I can afford to feed them what I hope to be the best nutritionally. I’m relieved you said that he’s tolerating the S&C. Started with the S&C rabbit and venison a few weeks ago after using primal .So far so good with stools and no vomiting. I know they are intolerant of too much fat. I found this out when years back I would give them some hamburger over they’re kibble and the next day they had diarrhea. Even with lean steak meat. If I gave them little of broiled steak two days in a row over they’re kibble same thing with diarrhea. With canned beef same problem. I’m now hoping that the Rabbit has less calories and fat and my chubby one will lose. But I’m waiting for this raw feeding to all go south if I keep on feeding because of the fat. Stella also came out with a stew so I will look into that.Maybe less fat and I can alternate. Thank you for posting . I thought I was the only one who was concerned about the fat in these raws.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by Patricia A.

[Patricia A]

Thank you Spy for replying. Originally they were all eating Fromm grain free with a topper of health extension Vets Choice Chicken. Also toppers when I cooked of boiled chicken, salmon and steak if they were lucky that day. Its was a long winter and walks were very limited. Also when my three year old Chi put her nose up at the Fromm and topper Tia would steal before I had a chance to grab it from her. Hence the weight gain. My 16 year old is still her old food which at her age she’s been doing VERY well with. Of course she gets EXTRA chicken etc when others not looking at this point in her life. I finally gradually switched to the Stella’s kibble but really it’s a VERY small amount of her diet. Also cut down to tiny bit of the steak, salmon etc when we ate that because I think I was over doing the amount. So between the walks, treats cut out and her food being cut down I thought by now she would show a trimmer body type. So now you said Stella kibble is high in carbs. Even though it says low. I think her other food was average carbs so I thought I was doing better with that. Below is the list of foods I’ve been giving so far with the freeze dried. It’s ahttps://primalpetfoods.com/products/raw-freeze-dried-canine-duck-formula#variant=35868839058lways dehydrated with warm water. Thank you for your help. https://www.stellaandchewys.com/dog-food/freeze-dried-raw-dinners/patties/venison-blend https://primalpetfoods.com/products/raw-freeze-dried-canine-turkey-sardine-formula#variant=36371519122https://primalpetfoods.com/products/raw-freeze-dried-canine-duck-formula#variant=35868839058
Is this kibble recipe lower in carbs? https://www.stellaandchewys.com/dog-food/raw-coated-kibble/beef-recipe

• This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by Patricia A.

[Patricia A]

I have been feeding my Chihuahuas Primal and Stella Chewy’s as a topper. The advisor listed both of these as his choices for his 2018 top choice food list and as being 5*. I was also looking into Vital Essentials and Wysong . Vital essentials has high protein low carbs but AVERAGE fat. Wysong freeze dried has actually BELOW average fat with the high protein and low carbs. Is there a strong benefit to having the above average fat in raw such as in the Primal and Stella’s.Why wouldn’t the raw commercial company strive for their product to be high protein average fat and low carbs. Wouldn’t MOST dogs do better being that some dogs are prone to pancreatitis . Also a good many dogs are overweight or are more sedentary during the winter months. So again..what IS the benefit of the higher fat since these foods have such a high ratings. Is it possible that the company is stating low fat when it’s not? Thank you . Hope I’m making sense with my questions.

• This topic was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by Patricia A.
• This topic was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by Patricia A.

[Patricia A]

Well one thing i’ve learned is that what’s best for one dog does not always work for yours. But I recently switched from Fromm with canned topper for my two Chihuahuas. I’m having success with Stella cheesy raw coated kibble but it’s expensive However they get VERY little of that with a topper now of Primal freeze dried. Very east since you just add the little bit of kibble and break up the freeze dried and add a little warm water to rehydrate. Bothe foods got high reviews. Many different protein types being Venison, Rabbit, Chicken, duck and their favorite Turkey and Sardine. Just have to make the change VERY slowly. Also of course whenever I have chicken I boiled some breasts for them with some carrots, string beans, tiny pieces of steak if they get lucky that day and also sometimes we have boiled salmon so get they a topper of that occasionally. We had a mini dachshund years ago and I know they tend to get back problems . So tried to always keep him trim.Hope this helps.

[kkwins]

Hi Jessica-
The website you linked certainly does not make it clear but the Signature recipe is the recipe you are accustomed to. It is the 95%/5% recipe and has not had any changes made to its formulation. They simply re-branded it when they released their lower protein line which is in the packaging of the previously 95%/5% formulas. Its confusing but the quality of the food has not changed. The 85%/15% was introduced for people “new” to raw because it is more affordable. Many other brands have similar protein/produce compositions (e.g. Primal, Northwest Naturals, Darwins, and more).
I second everything Pitlove said, the important thing is having the single protein composition. Which looking at the ingredient panel of the Natures Variety non-signature chicken and beef formulas they have maintained.

[pitlove]

You would have to give me more detail on your meal prep for me to really be able to see what you were doing. From your statement above your dogs were getting organ meat and RMBs but fish only once a week. Muscle meat should be the 80%. Also certain organs are fed as muscle meat in the Prey Model diet. So you have to take that into consideration too.

I don’t really like premade raw like Primal, Stella and Chewy’s etc but there is a service called https://www.wefeedraw.com/ that has prepared Prey Model Raw. It is not going to be as cheap as most dry food though. You have larger dogs too which always makes everything more expensive.

[Patricia A]

I’m still hanging in there trying to find a freeze dried topper my picky eater likes and my 8 year old Chihuahua that tends towards easy weight gain. Anyone have good things to say about Bixbi Freeze dried? It rates as average Fat low carbs vs Stella’s and Primal with above average fat as a whole for all recipes. I just recently saw this in the Pet Supply store I go to.

[Patricia A]

I need my 6 year old chihuahua to lose a little weight. I always gave Fromm kibble mixed with health extensions canned as a topper. I wanted something better for topper so went with Stella Chewy’s freeze dried. Within the last year she has gained weight. I’ve cut down the kibble and give her less then is advised on the freeze dried. I REALLY would like to not go back to canned. I only gave the chicken, Venison and Primal Turkey Sardines. But I can’t figure out now how some of these freeze dried are rated so high but be SO high in fat at the same time. Would it help if I slowly switched from Fromm which has above average fat to Stella Chewy’s raw coated kibble which is 5 star and lower end of fat? I would then cut down the patties to just one. Or is it impossible for small dogs to maintain a healthy weight on raw. I just would like to give myself a break and stop all my research and feel good about my girls diet.

[zcRiley]

/dog-food-reviews/smallbatch-raw-frozen-dog-food/

I personally recommend Primal.

[Patricia A]

When I gave my Chis’ the Primal from my mom’s I never thought to look at the recalls batch numbers from their recall a few months back.. I saw the list and it included Primal Turkey Freeze Dried but NOT Turkey and Sardine. Being new to Primal and Raw I didn’t realize it was one and the same until I looked at the Batch # on my bag.Only noticed this AFTER I called to complain. Guess the rep didn’t pick it up that I was giving him a batch # that WAS recalled. However, like I wrote the pieces were SO sharp an jagged that even the bones were 1/16″ I wouldn’t feel safe giving it to my little Chihuahuas’.
So now Claire you’re saying it’s back to the big bone shards. I really don’t feel like digging through the dog food every time I feed them. Why aren’t these bones in all these foods just be grinder down to powder?? I’m sure it doesn’t change the nutritional value. I really hope more people call in for this new batch for a recall so they change grinder machines and get it right with ALL of these raw brands.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 8 months ago by Patricia A.

[Patricia A]

I need my 6 year old chihuahua has gained weight since I switched to freeze dried toppers. I always gave Fromm kibble mixed with health extensions canned as a topper. I wanted something better for topper so went with Stella Chewy’s freeze dried and Primal turkey and sardine. . Within the last year she has gained weight. I’ve cut down the kibble and give her less then is advised on the freeze dried. Been looking at recently the Stella Chewy’s fat is 53% according to advisor. protein is 35 and carbs 11. I know lower carbs are a good thing and fat should be higher but it seems like 53% is very high. Please any advice would be much appreciated. Going nuts with research. I read on the advisor reviews under Primal and Stella’s that given the fat content food is not suitable for all dogs. So only VERY active dogs would do well and maintain ideal weight on even toppers of these brands? I researched that a 5lb dog needs approx 200 calories. So Stella’s Freeze Dried patties are approx. 60 calories per patty . A quarter cup of fromm is 102 calories. They get 1 1/2 patty of Stella’s and 1/4 cup fromm a day. This adds up to 192 calories a day.Also give in-between a little boiled chicken/sweet potato/ string beans/raw carrots/bannana etc as treats. Any advice please. I really love the idea of a five star topping but maybe it’s not for them.

[Nancy P]

Hi. Thank you for your response. The high fat content is a concern that I have but then, I’ve been told that if the fat content is from Omega 3, that is the healthy fat. My first Schnauzer had Pancreatitis and I hope to never have that happen again. I’m going to check with my vets tomorrow and see what they say. The skin issues that one has been having, I thought were Schnauzer bumps, but it ended up being more like an allergy. Anyway, that has greatly improved and she has more hair now.

I looked earlier today at Stella and Chewy’s raw diet as well as Primal freeze and both are higher in fat than some of the other raw diets. Dr. Marty’s Natural Blend has 39% protein 23% fat, 2.5% fiber, 4% moisture. So, that adds up to 68.5%. No idea why it doesn’t add up to 100%. I don’t really understand how that is all figured out.

This whole thing does make me nervous. I’ve had them on Natural Balance kibble forever and I was ok with it but I got to thinking that maybe the food was causing some of the skin issues.

I know that Schnauzers have their digestive health issues so I will do some more follow up on this. I’ll let you know what I find out.

[a c]

Hi Nancy,

I have two 11 years old miniature schnauzers. I tried Stella and Chewy’s raw patties and Primal freeze and dries raw last year. One of my schnauzers end up having pancreatitis. As you probably already know that Schnauzers are prone for pancreatitis. I then realized raw diet usually have high fat content. Do Dr Marty’s have lower fat content?

One of them also have a few “schnauzer bumps”. I switched them to low fat kibbles as base and add fresh vegetables, cooked or wet food, and salmon oil. I noticed her hair is becoming more silky like. Her hair used to be thicker and wiry.

[Cathy B]

Hi Patricia,
I’ve never fed Primal, but I did place a few orders for Allprovide’s frozen raw food.
I fed the chicken, turkey & beef but I can’t remember which one had big chunks of
very sharp jagger bones that I had to pick out in order for my 5lb Chi to eat it.

I took pics and texted them to Allprovide. They were the correct size bones for that food!
I felt they were too big for my Chi to eat.
So always having to poke my fingers around his bowl to pull out all bones..I stopped buying their food.

I believe they are now under new MNGT..so things may be different now.

[Mike Sagman]

The beef, chicken and lamb formulas of Primal Raw Frozen Formulas exhibit high fat-to-protein ratios, ranging from 92% to 100%. The others present much more favorable FPRs that vary from 44% to 67%.

Hope this helps.

[Cindy Y]

Rated at 2.5 stars? The brand overall is rated 5 stars but I cannot find any documentation on the site as to why these formulas are rated so low. Thanks!

[Tyrionthebiscuit]

I would do a kibble plus freeze dried raw or a simple homemade mix. My dogs do fantastic on Orijen/Acana, Fromm, Petcurean, and Farmina. I like Merrick but have one dog that gets very gassy on all formulas except for the rabbit and the venison. For the mixers, I’ll use Primal mostly. I try to keep to the poultry formulas or the rabbit. The ones that are beef inclusive tend to be very hard in comparison so it’s hard to mix in or rehydrate easily. There are some good canned foods as well. Scrambled eggs, chicken thigh or breast, and other home prepared meats are a good option as well. Sometimes you just need to see what your dog likes.

[a c]

I believed most of the raw and freeze dried are high in fat. I feed my 10 years old Stella and Chewys and Primal raw and freeze dried last year, and she end up with pancreatitis.

To lose weight, You probably want to use the tool from this site to narrow down a 5 star weight management dog food. Also, you need to calculate the fat in dry matter to get the actual fat %. Wellness Core has a weight management formula.

Good luck!

[Patricia A]

I am switching from Fromm grain free kibble to Stella n Chewy’s raw coated. My 16 year old has done great on the Fromm with a topper of Vets Choice Health Extensions for a little extra protein so not switching her at her age. However my little four year old has not been eating it and I turn my back and my middle 8 year old who is a little overweight scarfs hers down, So I’m having luck with her eating the Stella’s with a topping of their freeze dried. So I was very happy with my decision since both are five star. Now I’m very worried that they both have suncured alfalfa high up on the list of ingredients. I checked primal freeze dried and it also contains suncured alfalfa though further down on list of ingredients. I’ve read negative things about suncured alfalfa in dogs diet . Anyone else with this concern . Thank you for any info.

[Carrie W]

I am saddened by this lawsuit, however I read the letter sent out by Champion in regards to this lawsuit. I think everyone should at least consider both sides. I had already read the white paper (re: heavy metals in their food) info on Champion’s website (its in their library). I don’t know how long it has been available but it was a while back when I reviewed it. I have fed several different foods over the years. And when I got my latest GSD I did a lot of research and DFA became my favorite follow up site. When I reviewed the ingredients in Orijen I was so glad to see a food that was made with real meats with no meals, no by-products, etc. It even went beyond by using real fruits, veggies and herbs. It was refreshing and as for a kibble I could not find another that matched it. I researched heavy metals and the heavy metals in human foods as well and found the unfortunate truth that we and our pets our exposed to these heavy metals everywhere in our environment. The soil, air, and water which allows it to get into our foods. After all my hard research there was a negative for every positive. So I decided that a variety would probably be the best diet and why not that makes the most sense. I have to apologize to my past dogs for this, as they did not have this luxury. So I feed a mixture of Orijen Tundra, Primal Raw, Pumpkin, Pre-Probiotics, other raw meats, fruits and veggies. I hope that we will be able to remove more or all heavy metals from human and pet foods one day.

[Mareike]

Hi Kenneth,

How much of a picky eater is Earl? I have a 5-6 year old, female Lab, American type, who like a stereotypical Lab eats more or less anything. So it’s very easy to feed her a rotational diet consisting of different brands of commercial dog food (mostly kibble and raw) and some home-cooked food. You seem concerned about making a wrong change and I think a rotational diet (/frequently-asked-questions/diet-rotation-for-dogs/) would have the advantage of balancing things out.

With Natures Valley, do you mean Nature’s Variety? That is one of the brands I’ve been feeding my dog on and off and feel I can trust. Other brands I like to feed her are Honest Kitchen, Ziwi Peak, Spot Farms, Canidae, Primal, Stella & Chewy, Petkind, Wellness, Fromm, Solid Gold. Canidae ranks well for both nutrition and purity (http://www.cleanlabelproject.org/pet-food/). Have not tried Acana or Orijen yet, but probably will.

Another factor to consider for you in your choice might be Earl’s surgeries in combination with his weight. In case you/your vet think(s) he could/should lose some weight, then you might want to find a brand or multiple brands of a high-quality “weight loss” food.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 10 months ago by Mareike.

[Jessica J]

Ahhhhh…. so glad I stumbled across this thread. As a store manager of a grooming salon & pet boutique, I literally spend my day surrounded by high quality dog food and have successfully advised countless dog owners. I have spent hours respectfully arguing against the “my vet says Science Diet” is the best food argument. My 8 year old Australian Labradoodle has mostly eaten Acana or the Fromm 4-Star GF line. She’s a finicky one and tends to prefer the Fromm. Well… 3 weeks ago a friend of a friend found a baby Lab on the side of the road. Cold, slightly malnourished, and scared. After confirming that nobody was looking for this sweet little lost soul… I made her a permanent member of my family. In desperation the first night I got her, I brought home a bag of Orijen Puppy kibble and Primal Raw Goats Milk. My only thought being that this little girl needed some good nutrition asap. After a week of thriving but with loose explosive poops, I realized that the Orijen was probably a little too rich for her belly. So I did a little research and checked some numbers and trusted my intuition- and put her on the same Fromm kibble my Doodle eats. She is gaining a perfect 2lbs a day, solid stools, looks great, etc. I have occasionally supplemented with a little Primal Raw Goats Milk. Saw the new vet at my beloved practice today and was chastised and lectured that she should be on a Large Breed Puppy food so that she doesn’t end up a dysplastic disaster at a young age. Then I came home and found this thread as well as confirmed for myself that the numbers hit where I wanted them to. Thank you for the knowledgeable common sense advice and all your wisdom!!

[Anita L]

Kind of interesting that anon101 dismisses “homeopathic” (actually holistic, not homeopathic) sources of information and their own source happens to be quite biased too. The availability of vets who are aware of kibble-alternative diets may depend very much on where you live. Where I live, there are many holistically trained vets do not use only traditional veterinary knowledge, as helpful as that can be for many people.

A well-researched post about transitioning from a brick & mortar organization specializing in raw pet foods: https://sfraw.wordpress.com/2017/02/09/transitioning-to-raw-sfraw-recommends/ Hope it’s useful!

You can get the meats & bones at any butcher you would go to for your own meats. Bones are really inexpensive – just get small bones such as chicken necks, feet, to begin with, and avoid weight-bearing bones.

Personally, we give our 15 lb dog at least 2-3 meals of meaty chicken bones a week. We just approximate her usual 1/2 cup serving size from how big the bone looks. This is as a supplement to high-quality kibble and homemade (cooked) food, using Dr. Richard Pilcairn’s recipe. You may find his book helpful if you wish to learn more about alternative diets.

We have also fed prepackaged foods such as Primal brand, which comes in frozen patties. If you are open to freeze-dried, Stella and Chewy’s is also great. Ziwipeak is air-dried and an amazing food for the money (considering you can use it as a treat since it comes in little squares and is apparently delicious). All are more expensive than feeding raw sourced from grocery stores but those are premium brands for minimally processed food.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Jessica M-
I mix some commercial raw into my dogs’ afternoon meals with great results. You could give that a try. I mostly use Nature’s Variety, but have also fed Primal and NW Naturals. These are already complete and balanced so I don’t have to worry about them not getting all the nutrients they need.

Other meals, I mix in either canned good, eggs or fish. I also think that bones are risky. Good luck to you!

[a c]

After losing my 10 years old to lymphoma earlier this year, I really started to take a close look at the dog food. I have been feeding them primarily Hill’s Science Diet since they were puppies because that’s what vet has recommended.

I went to a local pet store, I was told Orijen is the best out there in addition to the raw diet. I bought Origen and small bags of Stella and Chewy, Primal, and Honest Kitchen to try. My the other 10 year old end up with pancreatitis. She was put on IV therapy, metronidazole, and Science Diet ID can food. Then, I was told to put her on low fat Purina One Smartblend Weight management kibbles.

It has been a struggle to find low fat, good ingredients, and no/low toxin dog food. It shouldn’t be this hard.

[Bobby dog]

Hello Atlas:
My pup was on an Rx food for a month for digestive issues. I transitioned her back to her regular diet with no issues.

I have used Rx diets for my cats as well. I made the mistake of taking one of them off early. His health issue returned not to mention he had to endure more visits to the Vet.

For training maybe single ingredient freeze dried treats would be an option. Some I feed are Nature’s Variety, Stella & Chewie, Grandma Lucy, Vital Essentials, Primal, and Stewarts.

If food is an issue you can never know for sure if an OTC food is free from a protein your dog might react to. OTC foods, even LID or sensitive recipes, might be similar in ingredients to Rx foods, however they are not guaranteed to be free of proteins not listed on the bag as Rx foods are. Completely breaking down the equipment and sanitizing after each batch of food to prevent cross contamination is costly and time consuming. This along with other procedures adds to the price of Rx foods. Here’s an article on the subject:
https://www.avma.org/News/JAVMANews/Pages/150515a.aspx

If an elimination diet is ever recommended for your pup keep in mind you can also go the homemade route; your Vet would be able to advise you on a recipe. Some articles explaining elimination diets, food intolerances, and allergies:
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=2499

You can find these articles on “DVM360” the links won’t post just copy and paste the titles in their search:
“The finer points of food elimination trials: A veterinary nutritionist’s take”
“Choosing the right elimination diet for food allergic cases”

I suggest keeping an open mind. I found this site several years ago because my dog had terrible skin and coat issues. I assumed it was his diet, not the case. He’s all healed up and the only maintenance he needs is weekly baths (monthly in the winter) with a shampoo that has specific ingredients, nothing else, just baths. I did move onto other food choices, however I feed him everything under the sun with no issues. Kibble, canned, commercial raw, balanced homemade, grains, grain free, fruits, veggies, common meat proteins, I don’t even transition to new foods. Good luck! 😉

[Jeff S]

So I have a 14 week old Australian Labradoodle puppy who I was possibly transitioning to raw or at least mostly raw—want to keep some kibble to make it easier for travel and friends watching her. Anyway started transitioning her to Raw about a week ago. Have been using a sample pack from Darwin’s as well as some Primal Raw frozen–both chicken. She seems to be doing generally ok, although it seems that for about 1/2-1 hour after she eats, she gets very hyper–sometimes running in big circles with her tail between her legs and/or being very restless. Spoke with Darwins’ but they said they haven’t heard of this. has anyone experienced this? So far I have been only giving her commercial raw, except for yesterday when I gave her a piece of raw turkey wing (which she enjoyed and chewed up pretty well). Yesterday about 3 hours after eating the turkey wing she did regurgitate with much of the turkey looking undigested (she re-ate it). She then seemed fine. After playing for a bit and taking a nap she seemed very hungry so gave her a handful of kibble (Acana). About another 2-3 hours after, she threw up agin–mostly partially digested kibble. She was good the rest of the night (slept through until morning). Fed her kibble this morning and she was good most of the day. Fed her some more raw (Darwins chicken at lunch) got a bit hyper again but was good most of the rest of the day until after dinner–which was some more Darwins and a bit of Allprovide. Again shortly after eating she got very hyper, racing around the yard picking up sticks, etc.

So, is this normal? Am I transitioning her too quickly? is the hyper ness possibly an upset stomach (she sometimes seems to run and sit quickly–once and a while dragging her butt a bit (has been dewormed plus saw a tapeworm before i stated the raw and she was dewormed for that as well).

Also, since we’ve had her she has been a bit itchy/biting around the base of her tail and back legs, although the vet could not find any fleas and didn’t think it should be any more worms. Since starting the raw nothing has really changed with the itching (I realize it is kind of soon to expect any change in that–just bringing it up in case it’s a sign of something else).

Anyway, anyone have any thoughts. Not while I’m writing this, she has been panting a bit heavily and looked like she was going to vomit again although nothing happened.

Thanks

Jeff

[Mike Sagman]

Hi Barbara,

We currently list various versions of 3 raw dog food brands in our Editor’s Choice members area:

Nature’s Variety
Primal
Stella and Chewy’s

Although there are other raw foods that get 4 or more stars on the regular website, none of them meet all our requirements for Editor’s Choice. You can find most of these guidelines listed in this article:

An Insider’s Guide to Finding Superior Dog Food Brands

Hope this helps.

[Barbara L B]

Not looking for trouble, just checking, as a newer raw feeding dog. Currently have Steve’s, Darwin’s and Primal in the freezer and frankly Steve’s is looking good at half the price of the other two.

[haleycookie]

RAW bones such as the frozen primal bones sold at petvalus are safe but there are always risks with anything. Just always make sure with ANYTHING you give your dog you are watching them while they chew on it. I often get ppl that ask me “what is something I can leave with my dog to chew on?” The answer is nothing. Don’t leave your dog to chew on anything alone. Which you did not do and I’d imagine you’re smart enough to know that. Great that you taught your dog drop it too. I also wouldn’t recommend a rotted bleached bone off of a mystery carcass. Go to a petvalu if you have one near and pick up one of the raw primal bones or I believe they can be ordered online. I have used those with several different dog sitting dogs and they all love them. Don’t be scared of bones, I find they are a great way to clean the teeth of tartar. I also toss raw bones within 24 hrs of opening. And if I ever purchase those filled bones or meaty bones from petco I toss those once the dog has pulled out the center filling or pulled off all the meaty bits from the bone.

[Brianna C]

-Amy R
I give Albert gets two capsules of fish oil a day and I supplement his meals with a couple Primal nuggets as well. His fur and skin are so silky since I started with the fish oil. He gets raw pumpkin and all sorts of other fruits and veggies. He is pretty spoiled!

[Teagsmom]

I was feeding my dog Acana for years and Chewy will no longer be selling it. Perfect timing bc I was in the process of looking for a new food with smaller pieces of kibble. We went with Natures Variety Instinct Raw Boost (kibble w pieces of freeze dried raw). If Fromm works for your dog, I wouldn’t change just to get a discount. Buy some Primal raw dehydrated to use as a topper or try another topper.
The prices at my local dog store are the same as Chewy and they solely carry high end foods. I’ll be supporting them once I use my 3 purchases from Chewy. I had 2 foods in my cart and it gave me 50% off of both. Nice surprise.

[a c]

Thank you for the replies. I guess it must be the different mixture of ingredients in the kibbles that make it harder to transition.

Susan, When you rotate the kibbles, do you give one kibble at a time for a month or so and then move to the next kibble or do you mix the kibbles together?

I have tried the raw diet – Stella & Chewy’s, Primal, and The Honest Kitchen. It triggered pancreatitis on one of my dogs. The fat content is too high. I now use homemade cook of ground turkey and fresh vegetables as a topper.

When I tried to transition a new kibble, the stool is always sloppy and frequency almost double. Is this normal? It’s especially hard since I am trying to toilet train my 14 weeks old puppy. He is like a stool manufacturer. 🙂 Organic pumpkin is great. I also see pumpkin for dogs and cats at the pet store. Are those have the same ingredients?

Anne, What is the steel ball that you put it in his food? Two of my dogs also inhaled their food.

[Teagsmom]

I tried a few different kibble and the winner is Natures Variety Instinct Raw Boost for small breed. The kibble is the size of Fromm (tiny). She absolutely LOVES IT. I used it as a treat (testing to see if she would insist on something better) and she gobbled it up. So I’m using the Instinct raw boost (it has pieces of freeze dried in it) with a Primal topper. I toss in a few pieces of Acana to make sure she doesn’t get sick from transitioning but she’s absolutely fine. Stools are perfect and she gets so excited for her meals. Fingers crossed this lasts!! 🙂

[Anne B]

Hi FrankiesDoggie,

Since I have just begun to explore the world of raw food diets for our two dogs I really appreciate your recommendations on frozen and freeze-dried raw patties for dogs. Stella & Chewy’s was the first brand that I tried but I do have concerns about the additional additives in particular. Just got some Vital Essentials Beef to try as it does not contain additives although I see some will fault the company for not including any additional vitamins other than Vitamin E.

I will give Nature’s Variety (our Vizsla is on their Rabbit kibble), Primal and OC Raw a try as well. Thanks for your suggestions!

[zcRiley]

Zignature Lamb limited ingredient formula (kibble). What would probably make it go away is ZiwiPeak freeze dried food (tiny soft flat squares), on the expensive side. So you can go thru a bag or two than switch back to kibble. Primal is raw blocks that have to be rehydrated with a bit of water, also very good. You want to significantly decrease the UTI with a cleansing diet for a few months before settling down with a formula of your choice.

[Jude N]

My dog is the same way. I’ve tried him on the following kibbles:

– Blue Buffalo
– Merrick
– Taste of the Wild
– Zignature
– Nature’s Varity Instinct
– Orijen
– Acana
– Legacy
– Wellness
– Fromm
– Nulo
– Earthborn
– ZiwiPeak
– PetKind
– Wysong
– Halo

I have tried numerous wet foods; the only kind he’ll eat is Merrick, which makes him gassy, and is expensive. He has tried Stella & Chewy dehydrated raw, Grandma Lucy’s, and Primal. He likes them all for about a week, and will then start going days without eating, to the point that he will vomit bile from being without food for too long.

He ate Nature’s Variety Instinct beef patties very well for several months; I made the mistake of trying to switch to Stella & Chewy’s venison raw patties, and he detests those. He now will only willingly eat actual ground, whole prey beef mixes from My Pet Carnivore, and beef tripe. I switched him to pork and he has eaten his dinner only twice since last Wednesday, because he’s refusing it.

So basically what I’m saying is that I feel for you, LOL.

Are you wanting kibble or wet food recommendations?

Something that you might try: sprinkle a little bit of garlic powder onto his food. My vet recommended this trick to me, and it’s worked a few times. Now I just make his meals into what can only be called “tripe sandwiches”, trying to not waste the pork meat by layering it between tripe. Sigh.

[Teagsmom]

I have a chi/mix rescue who was fed junk at the shelter. I put her on Acana grasslands and she loved it. I just started using Primal freeze dried. She gets so excited when she smells me adding water, she starts doing circles. You may want to try a good kibble with a topper of raw (I prefer freeze dried due to convienence but you could use raw patties). You could also do one meal kibble and one meal raw.

My dog wouldn’t go near Honest Kitchen. She literally ran away. I was shocked because she’s not a super picky eater. I’ve been obsessing over what dog food to give now that my dog had some teeth extracted. My last dog was diagnosed with Cushings at age 5, was on medication his entire life and lived to 15 1/2 yrs old eating Wellness. So I’m starting to question whether I’m thinking too much into this. Good luck!

[Jude N]

Hello,

My senior chihuahua/JRT mix had a bout of acute pancreatitis several years ago. He had bloodwork done a few months ago and didn’t have anything elevated enough that it concerned the veterinarian.

I’ve been trying to feed him a raw diet, but he only likes beef, and is clearly unhappy when he feels forced to eat anything else. He’d rather not eat for several days than eat pork, venison, duck, or chicken willingly. This inability to rotate him on proteins has me nervous about trying to stick with a “homemade” raw diet, and I’m looking to switch to commercial raw. Budget is a major concern for me.

There’s a good deal going on at Chewy’s right now for a food called Tylee’s. Here are the ingredients:

“Nutritional Info
Ingredients
Beef Heart, Ground Beef, Water (Sufficient For Processing), Beef Liver, Spinach, Broccoli, Zucchini, Sweet Potato, Mangos, Tricalcium Phosphate, Chia Seeds, Sunflower Oil, Ground Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Cod Liver Oil Powder, Dried Parsley, Ground Cinnamon, Dried Kelp, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Rosemary Extract, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate.”

I read in another post on this forum that it has a very high fat content…something like 34-38%. Yikes.

His pancreatitis attack was the result of a dogsitter feeding him a fatty, greasy, smoked ham bone that she had thought was a yummy treat for him. He was on a low-fat diet for several months afterwards.

Chip refuses kibble, wet food, re-hydrated raw, and Nature’s Instinct raw patties (I think he’s just bored of the Nature’s Instinct; he used to eat it well). Primal , THK, and Darwin’s are too expensive for me.

There’s another food called Ollie’s that I’m looking into, but I’m not thrilled about a couple of the ingredients (potatoes and peas, specifically).

Does anyone have any advice/experience on how long a pancreatic attack needs to be considered in a dog’s diet? Does anyone feed Tylee’s, or Ollie’s?

Thank you 🙂

[Teagsmom]

She’s btwn 11-12 lbs- it wouldn’t cost as much but is still expensive. I’m having a difficult time figuring out how much kibble (she ate about 1/4 cup Acana twice a day) to give if I use half a Primal nugget per meal. I may do kibble one meal and raw for dinner. This could drive a person mad. Lol

[crazy4cats]

Hi Teagsmom-
I have been using frozen raw as a topper to kibble for three or four meals per week for about four years with no issues. I have two large lab mix dogs. I use either Nature’s Variety, Primal or NW Naturals. I’ve never tried raw coated kibble. I think it’s too expensive. Best of luck to you.