[Hound Dog Mom]

Freeze-dried may or may not be raw. The process of freeze drying doesn’t use heat so if raw meat is freeze-dried the end product is raw, if cooked meat is freeze-dried the end process is cooked. Grandma Lucy’s cooks their meat prior to freeze-drying. If you want a raw freeze-dried product Stella & Chewy’s, Primal, Orijen, Nature’s Variety, Vital Essentials, Northwest Naturals and Dogswell Nutrisca (I’m sure there are others I’ve forgotten) all have some good options. Just be aware that freeze-dried foods are VERY expensive. Frozen raw is much cheaper, but a commercial frozen raw will still likely cost more to feed than kibble.

[spaniel39]

I have had great luck with Sophie my 120 pound Komondor on
Nutrisource Large Breed Lamb (she was on large breed puppy previously but now
she’s 15 months old).
It gets great reviews and reasonably priced especially compared to Orijen or Acana.

Before that, she did well on canine Caviar Lamb Puppy dinner but was very expensive
plus they had a labeling problem, where there was a misprint on the bags showing
the puppy formula calcium level over 2% and did nothing about it
(Oh, the food inside is ok, we just need to use up the bags!!!)
Another good one I used but don’t anymore is Artemis’s Osopure Duck and garbanzo beans
but the big bags are $70.

Personally, not into the “raw” diet for my pups;
I do supplement their diet (have 2 springer spaniels also) with a very lean
Hamburger or turkey burger—cooked—once a week or 10 days.
They love green beans, blueberries, cooked spinach.
It’s great to supplement with veggies, etc

GLTA!

[Case]

If I can go raw for less than Orijen, I’m likely to do that in the future.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Case –

Are you comparing Grandma Lucy’s to Orijen? Grandma Lucy’s isn’t a raw food. Like BC said, you’d need to compare cost to feed on a calorie basis but I’d assume any (or at least most) commercial raw foods would be much more expensive to feed then even a super premium kibble like Orijen. Homemade raw, however, can be done fairly cheaply. I feed my dogs homemade raw for cheaper than it would be to feed Orijen. I haven’t done the calculations in awhile but I believe most of the commercial raw foods would run me about 4X – 5X more than I spend making it myself.

[Case]

Ok. With those two products:

Grandma Lucy’s: 4162 kcal/kg; 591 cal/cup

Orijen Puppy: 4080 kcal/kg; 490 kcal/cup

[Case]

Have I read too much today and confused myself? It appears that it’s more cost effective to feed raw than high end kibble. Am I overlooking something here?

http://www.chewy.com/dog/grandma-lucys-pureformance-grain/dp/36506
-vs-
http://www.chewy.com/dog/orijen-puppy-grain-free-dry-dog-food/dp/29733

[Jazz Lover]

I’m trying to do the best I can to feed our 89lb lab the healthiest I’m able.

Currently he has been on Orijen LB Adult. Jazz is now 1 yr old (Apr). Generally, I give him 3 cups daily, w/ Grizzly Salmon Oil. I substitute out 1/2 cup dry for 1/2 can Merrick, raw vegs or a couple sardines packed in water. I plan to give him Fromm for a change and switch back & forth for variety. For training snacks, I use apple, or died unsulferated, unsweetend fruit.

I don’t feel going raw entirely is something I can afford, however I’m open to toppers & suggestions, even the possibility of one meal per day other then dry.

Thank you

[Brittany D]

Acana does not offer puppy food and I know my two dogs really like Acana so we will eventually switch to it when Dexter is fully grown but I need a puppy food for him he is only 7 months old. We recently rescued him and he was emaciated when he was rescued by the orginzation and he was still quite underweight when we adopted him just a few weeks ago. He is doing much better now and is only still slightly underweight but he is growing well (rib cage is actually looking more normal instead of very thin and small). Dexter appears to be a Scottish Terrier+Poodle mix. I haven’t weighed him recently but I know he’s at least 8 pounds.

I am only buying high quality food such as Acana, Orijen, Wellness Core, etc. I am going by the rating system here on DFA and am choosing 4+ star dog foods only. It seems odd though that all of the 5 star foods that DFA has reviewed do not offer puppy foods. Is this common?

I’d prefer to have a dog food that is completely gluten-free as I myself have Celiac Disease and am very sensitive to gluten so handling the food and receiving doggy kisses puts me at risk of having a bad reaction if they are eating foods with gluten in them.

So I’d prefer a grain-free OR one with Rice/potato/sweet potato, etc but no other gluten-containing grains.

Dexter and Bentley (who is 6 years old, Yorkie) both itch a lot and have atopic dermatitis. Dexter’s is on his face and I have not seen any spots anywhere else, and Bentley’s is mainly on his back but he did have it practically everywhere on his body (just not a full blanket rash). We switched to Greenies Pill Pockets Allergen Formula and it does seem even better now with much less itching for Bentley. So he also may have an allergy to wheat (gluten) as one of the main ingredients in all of the pill pockets minus the allergen formula is wheat.

So I think I need:
1) gluten-free
2) 4 or 5-star rating from DFA or one that hasn’t yet been reviewed but is on the same level quality-wise as 4 or 5 star foods DFA has already reviewed
3) Prefer smaller kibble as my dogs are small/toy size.

Kind of off my own topic but Bentley (6 year old yorkie) vomited whenever he ate Orijen 6Fish so I think Orijen itself is too strong somehow for Bentley so I tried Acana and they both ate it without any issue. Maybe the Orijen is too protein-rich for Bentley?

I am hopeful you (all) will be able to help me narrow down a puppy food to give to Dexter. I prefer kibble over canned only because it is more cost effective and less work to prepare and we won’t have to worry about how long that can was in the fridge.

I look forward to your responses. 🙂

[Gail A]

I have an eight-year-old Boston Terrier that had terrible gas issues and diarrhea as a puppy and young adult. He was on Canidae for a few years and then we switched him to Orijen. The stools improved on Orijen, but the gas persisted. He had to have surgery and was on a homemade chicken and rice diet for about a week or two and I happily discovered that his gas symptoms completely cleared! Going on a hunch, I looked for a dog kibble that only had chicken and rice. What I ended up finding was Nature’s Variety Instinct Limited Ingredient Lamb and Tapioca formula. It worked great. My dog loved it, he had small, firm stools and no gas!

We have had him on this for years now and never had a problem. Unfortunately, they just recently changed the formula to Lamb and Peas and suddenly we are dealing with gas again. Does anyone have any suggestions as to a good food that has limited ingredients and is preferably very low in fiber? I think it’s the extra fiber in the peas that’s bothering him.

I’d appreciate any suggestions or pointers. We live in a small house and he is starting to run us out of the house again. 🙁

Thanks in advance!

[zcRiley]

In other words by 2016, we won’t be getting the Canadian version of Orijen/Acana. We’ll be getting the Kentucky version of it. Which defeats the whole “from Canada” taste/quality aspect. Which means I’ll be switching brands as of a minute ago.

[zcRiley]

“A wide range of fruits are grown commercially in Canada, including apples, tender fruits (peaches, nectarines, pears, plums, prunes and cherries), grapes, blueberries, cranberries, strawberries and raspberries. A number of these fruits are native to Canada such as cranberries, blueberries, blackberries, saskatoons and the labrusca grape. Canada’s fruit industry has adapted well to our cold climate and short growing seasons, with Southern Ontario and Southwest British Columbia, which enjoy about 180 frost-free days every year, producing much of the fruit grown in the country, while regions of Quebec and the Maritimes also have significant fruit production, despite having only about 120 frost -free days per year.”

“Canada’s fruit imports from the top ten supplying countries. In descending order (by the share of total import value in 2009), these were the United States (44 %), Chile (7%), France (7%), Italy (6%), Mexico (5%), Australia ( 4%), China (3%), Costa Rica, Argentina and Ecuador (each 2%).”

However, Orijen doesn’t use that many fruits but that would definitely be back-up if they absolutely ran out.

“Free Range” only applies to the barn if the poultry has access to the outdoors. The term has nothing to do with cages or grassy pastures. Refrigeration only helps for so long & of course freezing is not considered fresh. Ice fishing is fine, they go where the particular fish are & open holes to get them. Orijen’s high prices reflect increased high quality ingredients (in the 1st 5 listed) per formula. But unless they’re producing in small batches, that’s a lot of food that we’re assuming is constantly “fresh”. How would we know if they snuck something into a freezer for a month, ha! Just kidding.

[RescueDaneMom]

I forgot one. Horizon Legacy, also a Canadian kibble like Orijen, has 81% protein from animal sources.

[RescueDaneMom]

I know the Timberwolf Platinum is 80/20 just like Orijen as I saw it in my local pet store this past weekend. It is made in Windemere, FL and not widely available online like a lot of other foods. Victor has 3 varieties that have 80% or more protein from meat: GF Ultra Pro, Victor Select Hi-Pro Plus, and Victor Select Performance Formula.

I will be ordering from BC soon. I wish I had looked into them sooner. Free shipping on orders of $40 or more and 1 day shipping if you live in FL (which I do…yes!).

[Case]

Scott,

Have you moved on?

I’m trying to get a Champion rep to commit to an answer about the availability of Canadian product after the Kentucky kitchen is cooking. I’ll post updates in my Orijen ingredients thread.

/forums/topic/orijen-ingredients/

[Case]

Hello Case,
 
Your trust means everything to us. We understand your concern regarding our new Kentucky Kitchens and want to openly discuss that with you.  
 
We don’t make pet foods like other companies do. As a leader and innovator in making pet foods, Champion works to our own standards. These are our standards, not USDA, not FDA, not CFIA. These agencies set minimum standards which we exceed exponentially. Why?  Because our Mission and our Values dictate that we do, and that’s what pet lovers expect from us.
 
Our standards and values require that all of our ingredient partners, team members, quality and safety protocols and kitchen facilities are focussed on upholding and advancing our Biologically Appropriate mandate, and earning the trust of pet lovers day and in day out.
 
We choose our ingredient partners carefully, and we set quality and nutritional standards to meet our own food standards. In Kentucky, we will be engaging regional farmers, ranchers and fishermen whose values that match our own, that we can be proud to name. These suppliers will be providing fresh and custom ingredients that are sustainably and ethically produced.
 
Building brand new, custom-fitted kitchens in Kentucky provide us a tremendous opportunity to advance our BAFRINO mandate of making Biologically Appropriate foods from Fresh, Regional Ingredients, in our own Kitchens. These three key philosophies have built trust in our brands worldwide, and we fully intend to continue to build on this foundation.
 
Champion is different. Our custom Kentucky kitchens will produce ORIJEN and ACANA foods that set a new standard for the foods that we feed to our companion cats and dogs, we guarantee it.
 
There is a FAQ on our website regarding the kitchens in Kentucky, which I think that you will find helpful.
http://www.championpetfoods.com/kentucky/ThinkKentuckyThinkFAQ.pdf
 
You can use both my email and the link to the FAQ’s for your message board.
 
Kind regards,
 
 
Diana
Customer Care
Champion Petfoods LP

[Case]

Orijen gave me permission to post their replies, so here goes:

Original Question:

I have a question about the year-round availability of fresh local ingredients. I’m from the southern US, our climate is much warmer and we can’t produce fresh fruits and veggies all year.

How is it possible to have fresh locally grown fruit and veggies in Canada in winter? What about free range poultry? Wild caught fish?

Thanks for your time.
Case

[aquariangt]

There are some people whose dogs have done poorly on Fromm, though mine do well, so a lot of it is a test. That goes for most foods-one of mine doesn’t do well on Orijen-some people swear by it. 2 of my 3 don’t do well on Solid Gold, but it’s rated well, etc…

The other thing with Fromm is it is fairly low in protein %. The grain free gets a lot of its protein from peas, so some people don’t love that either. I supplement with canned and dehydrated food for extra meat protein, so I am not super concerned by it. I only use the 4star Grain free regularly, I have used Gold in the past as well. Never used the original

[aquariangt]

at the very least, I would rotate orijens varieties so that you don’t get them too comfortable with just the one. Beyond the health benefits, who knows what could happen…orijen could have a recall (unlikely) your store could be out in a pinch, etc… so it’s good to get them to be able to eat multiple proteins and flavors on that level as well as it being good for your dog. I rotate canned as well as kibble, and actually, I rotate canned a lot more than I rotate kibble. I don’t buy cases of cans, I just go buy big varieties

[Case]

I have no problem accepting the poultry/barn answer.

For the most part I’m ok with the produce/cold storage answer. Call me a skpetic but I still question the shelf life of some of the ingredients (blueberries, cranberrires, spinach greens). It makes me wonder just how much difference there is between cold storage and freezing.

I really don’t know what to make of the year round availability of fish. I’ve read where other people have said that Orijen told them that they acquire farmed fish at times. The rep that e-mailed me made no mention of farmed fish but she did mention ice fishing. I’ve never been in more than maybe six inches of snow and I’m not much of a fisherman, so I have no clue here.

I’m still wondering what do you guys think.

[cindy q]

The honest kitchen is dehydrated, but its not raw. Marie my standard poodle is very picky but she just started eating Orijen and she finishes all of it.

[cindy q]

Thanks theBCnut! I feed the orijen with fish oil in the morning and then they get a little pumpkin at night they get go and a few times a week I give them a little yogurt. After reading what you feed I feel like I might not be doing enough.

[zcRiley]

UPDATE: The pups have been strictly on Natural Balance Synergy Dry for only 2 days (while still taking their antibiotic for campi bacteria). And wouldn’t you know, their stools became perfect the next day. For the 1st time in a very long time. I’m kinda in shock as I stare at what I eliminated all at the same time: the 2 types of Orijen, the omega supplements, the calming chew, the Cosequin DS, the antioxidants, probiotics & enzymes, all the treats. I guess I have to start adding things back into their diet one at a time…..

Nancy C: Dr. Tim’s Pursuit sounds great, crossing my fingers for you!

Case: Thanks for the Orijen super sleuthing. All the fish they use being year round available, that’s interesting…. anyway, just tossed my bag of Orijen 6 Fish out the window. It started smelling funny.

[Vianca V]

I recently changed all my dog from science diet to wellness, my 2 month old peke puppy eats wellness small breed puppy, my 5 year old rescue eats wellness small breed adult with wellness turkey stew as a topper, my 8 year old mini dashhound eats wellness small breed adult too, and my mother 11 year old chihuahua eats wellness turkey stew. I had been struggling with which food to pick and concidered the core fish but opted not to pick that one because of some youtube videos demostrating the bones in the kibble, however I still wanted wellness because it was a very good, its was available to me in comparison to orijen, acana, and other 5 star foods, and it fit into my budget to be honest. The foods that I give my fur babbies do contain salmon but I have not seen any bones in them, and belive me Ive looked, also in comparison to the bones white fish have, salmon bones are much smaller and less harmful so if they were to be present the would most likely not cause any harm.

[cindy q]

I am now feeding Orijen in the morning and my picky dogs like it, I am trying to find a canned that they like. I gave them a little of the Go tonight and they seemed to like it. Do any of you keep feeding the same kibble and just rotate the canned?

[theBCnut]

Is Orijen’s 80% the amount of protein that comes from meat or the amount of ingredients that are meat based?

Look at Wysong Epigen, Earthborn Holistic Grain Free Primitive Naturals, Brothers Complete, and Nature’s Variety Instinct. Off the top of my head, those are the ones that I can think of that are highest in protein. The chicken varieties are always the highest.

[Case]

What brands of kibble have the highest meat content? Does anything trump Orijen’s 80%?

[Case]

The Orijen rep basically said:

fruits and vegetables are kept fresh with the use of cold storage

chickens, turkeys and ducks are housed in barns in the winter but not caged

fish are caught year round

I made an inquiry about the availability of Canadian product after the Kentucky kitchen opens, and will update you guys when I get a reply.

[Case]

Thank you zolicyclus! She’s an APBT down from the Watchdog line.

The probiotic/enzyme combo that I’m using contains 10 million CFU of L. Casei, B. Thermophilium, E. Faecium, & 375 million CFU of S. Boulardii. I’m also using Orijen, so I’ll have to do some research this week.

You have to register your e-mail address at gravatar.com to upload a pic for an avatar. It’s fast and easy. We’d love to see your dogs.

[zcRiley]

Orijen Adult (Dry)
Brothers Complete Advanced Allergy Care (Dry)

[zcRiley]

You’re absolutely correct, Case, EF is in Orijen (hence my temporary switch to Synergy). Perhaps not much and the strains are probably dead. However, the wrong strains used or overkill can cause various diseases or urinary tract infections. I guess my dogs are different considering thousands of people are shoveling that daily packet of bacteria down their pets’ throats & swear by it. Your dog is beautiful BTW. I want to put up a pic of Zoli & Cylus but I can’t seem to find that option in my settings.

Anyway, thank you crazy4cats for your suggestions. I wrote it all down!

[Case]

I don’t claim to be well read or experienced with probiotics, but I wasn’t aware that E. Faecium was not recommended. Doesn’t Orijen spray their kibble with it?

[zcRiley]

Thanks, guys. Sorry I wasn’t more specific. I have two 1 yr 2 mo old AmStaff mixes. They’ve been great on Orijen Dry Puppy Food (adding NutraMax Lab’s Cosequin DS for glucosamine much later). I used to mix in Horizon, Merricks or Acana for some zing; that was until I started doing major research on ingredients/hi end fillers, recalls etc. The Giardia & Campi was diagnosed with only 1 of my pups (the one that always had a digestive issue). At that point, I started mixing in Orijen 6 Fish with a crumble of Dr Foster & Smith’s Omega 3 chews. After the Giardia was taken care of, his behavior went down the tubes, I cried during that time thinking was it me, was it his brother, is he dying of something? After $600 doing the full bloodwork panel, fecal float, fecal ELISA & the fecal culture, it was the culture that found the Campi bacteria. 2 shots later & a slew of antibiotics per dog, it was time to add some “help” to their tummies. I got the Purina Veterinary Diets FortiFlora (not knowing that animal digest & Enteroccoccus faecium was bad) & Nzymes (which has soy sprouts). I stopped immediately after four days of small doses/horrifying results, thus initiating the deeper ingredient research I should have done before. I’m now waiting for my new order of Nusentia’s Probiotic Miracle & Enzyme Miracle. During this wait, the pups are switched to Nature’s Balance Synergy Dry Dog Food (has prebiotic & more fiber). AND ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ELSE ADDED & no treats. The rice & boiled chicken routine doesn’t sit well with them either. I DO add tons of kisses & hugs as to how sorry I am for making them worse.

[Lynn J]

Scott, what foods would you consider after Orijen starts manufacturing in the US? Just curious…..

[Jenmarlew]

My Bouvier had stomach issues as well. Any food with grain is a problem and I also find that he seems to have problems with chicken and duck. He did really well on Annamaet Aqualuk but its very expensive! He also did well on Victor’s (can’t remember which one though) and Great Life Grain Free Buffalo. Not so well on Wellness Core or Avoderm. I think I’ll give Orijen or Acana a shot now that he’s almost a year and calcium shouldn’t be an issue anymore.

[pearl i]

Hi,

Our 10 month old puppy has had continuous itchy skin since we brought him home: licks/ sometimes bites the inside of both groin areas, and his front paws, one more than the other. When we got him from the breeder he was IAMS (chicken protein), then has switched to Orijen LBP (chicken protein), and is currently on Acana Pacifica (fish protein.) He started Acana about a month or so ago, and is still itchy. This week was his second time visiting the vet for antibiotics, antihistamines, cream, etc (not prednisone this time, as he was prescribed that in April for the same issue.) Our vet believes it to be a food allergy as per his age, she wants him to continue on Acana Pacifica and give it some more time. However, she mentioned possibly trying venison or rabbit if Acana Pacifica doesn’t work out.

I researched a bit and found Natural Balance LID, it has high reviews in regards to relieving allergies, but the ingredients are listed to average- below average according to this website. I would like to switch him over to another dry food that is highly ranked with a different protein that he has not tried: venison, rabbit.

Anyone have any feedback related to this? Recommendations for a dry food?

Thank you in advance!

[justin k]

Thanks for the advice… I live in a relatively small town, so i don’t have the best selection to choose from… the ‘high end’ pet food store (singular) typically only stocks acana, orijen and Fromm’s gold, which is why i was particularly interested in those brands. I live in Canada, so shipping rates are astronomical and some companies, like Chewy’s, won’t even ship to Canada. And I’m not about to go and buy Ol’ Roy or something from Walmart.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Justin K –

None of Acana’s formulas are appropriate for large breed puppies. Orijen’s Large Breed puppy formula was reformulated recently and the the new formulation is only slightly above the recommended calcium guidelines (the old formula was much too high in calcium). In my opinion, with an all meat topper as 20% or less of the meal Orijen’s Large Breed Puppy formula would probably be acceptable.

[justin k]

Hi HDM,

I reviewed your list posted at the beginning of the thread was curious as to why the Acana or Orijen brands were not listed? I’m particularly interested Orijen LBP for a Rottie pup that we’ll be picking up at the end of this month. The analysis specifies a calcium min/max of 1.2/1.5% which seems to fall within the recommended intake. I’m looking to feed a high protein, low calcium dry kibble without supplementation throughout the rapid growth stage (as recommended in Dr. Lauten’s paper).

Any thoughts/recommendations?

Forgive me if it was already answered, as this thread has grown quite large. I admit that I did not read the entire thread front to back.

Thanks!

[cindy q]

I feel so much better now feeding this to my toy, I wanted something that my 8 mos old Standard Poodle and my 8 year old toy could both eat. They both love this food. When I was feeding Merrick neither of them were that interested in it and my Standard was very gassy, she doesn’t have that problem on Orijen. I am trying to find a canned food that they will both eat also, one that is just as good as Orijen. I am going to try Go fit & free, does anyone use that or have a opinion on it?

[MeMe B]

I’m so glad to see this question! I am about to order food for transitioning from a not so great food (thanks to finding this site!) to Acana or Orijen for my couch potato 7 yo toy poodle. So Robert R I’m glad to see your poos are doing well on this food!

[Robert R]

My toy poodle, Her Royal Highness, Princess Poodle Puppy, Coco Chanel (who’s been to Paris 3 times) loves Orijen 6 Fish and Orijen Puppy. I also feed her Pure Balance canned about 4 times a week and has sardines about once a week. She has lots of energy and looks great. My mini poodle Jefferson eats the same food and is also doing well.

[zcRiley]

Try going back to chicken or beef (grain/gluten free). The exotic lamb, duck, venison variety may be a little much for your terrier. Orijen’s 6 Fish is outstanding. Probiotics is a must for any diarrhea issues.

[zcRiley]

A few months ago, I got Merricks (a 2nd time) to mix with my constant Orijen. Massively dried out & stale with a weird smell. I almost killed my pups & will avoid Merricks from now on.

[Case]

I haven’t heard back from Orijen yet, so I worked up the nerve to call them today…but I didn’t get an answer and I didn’t leave a voicemail.

When I finally start communicating with somebody I also intend to clarify whether or not Canadian formulas will be available to the US after the Kentucky kitchen opens (and express great disappoinment if they won’t be).

[cindy q]

Any one know if Orijen has had any recalls?

[cindy q]

I was feeding Merrick, but I switched to Orijen because my dog didn’t really like Merrick. I do still have some cans of Merrick. I wasn’t aware of this.

[Case]

Isn’t this a private forum?

If someone from Champion is indeed monitoring our conversations then they know that the reason we choose Orijen is the quality. If the quality goes, so does our business.

Scott,

I didn’t intend to form a mob to disagree. I found your post thought provoking and would like to hear the opposing viewpoint from someone as well spoken as you.

If someone were inclined to join you in boycotting Champion, what other brands would you recommend?

[Scott C]

Amy,
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I admit that my post was borne of frustration, yet I stand by what I said.

It is a matter of record that American food (specifically, American manufactured or processed for) is increasingly less-safe. US Companies contaminated 15% more nations’ food supplies with human food that subsequently had to be recalled in Q4 of 2013 than ever before (ExpertSource), involving 860,000 pounds of food (compared to half that, one quarter earlier, the previous worst statistic on record). In 2010, 500 million (not a typo) American eggs were recalled, due to Salmonella poisoning (USDA) and 1906 US-manufactured food product recalls—all due to contamination of one kind or another—occurred between 2011 and 2012.

Selecting only one American company, Tyson Foods pled guilty to 20 felony counts of violating the Clean Water Act (2003), admitted to have continued contaminating the water supply for four years after federal search warrants were executed against them in 1999. In 2013, Tyson was cited four times by the US Department of Labor for OSHA workplace safety violations in which a human dismemberment occurred and may have entered the active production chain. In 2005, an undercover agent video-documented that Tyson was knowingly allowing chickens to be scalded alive in its plants, and dead animals tossed through the air “for fun” by employees. In 2008, federal courts found Tyson guilty of two counts of knowingly and intentionally using fraudulent labeling to claim that their products were anti-biotic free for over two years.

Now, an argument could be proffered that these are violations, so regulations are in place and adequate. The fact remains that American law is written to favor corporations who do the violating, as the duration of these ongoing transgressions suggests. (Tyson’s quarterly profits more than doubled in the second quarter, to $213 million US, and while prices have increased, cost savings were a significant factor. Having demonstrated that it saves costs by doing things like illegally contaminating the ground water, Tyson is not to be trusted with our health. Not Ever.)

So, one of my primary points is that I don’t trust American regulations in the way I trust Canadian regulations, specifically because Canadian law is so much more invasive to corporate operation than is American law. And one presumes that it is this, not the goodness of their hearts, which drives Champion’s move to open a plant in this country. It will be far easier for Champion to provide a much lower-quality product at much lower costs with much lower risk of being caught for having done so here in the United States than ever in Canada. It will also be far harder to detect a drop in ingredient quality until it is too late. American law and regulation cannot even guarantee safe food for our children; how could we ever have the hubris to assume it will protect our pets?

It may be, of course, I readily acknowledge, false to say that whatever Champion produces in Kentucky will be a priori garbage. My fear may be completely unfounded. It is only a fear of the future, after all.

I merely state that it will not be *my* pets who die when this turns out to not be the case. You may, of course, put your own pets at whatever level of risk you deem acceptable. For ourselves, we searched for months for a food we could trust as the result of laboratory tests and an environment of government regulation and we thought we had found Champion. In moving to Kentucky, Champion abandons virtually everything that made it our choice. They leave behind Canadian (often, wild) game ingredients, raised on healthy diets, near or in uncontaminated waters, processed humanely through systems exceeding Canadian government standards for human food, in facilities carefully and strictly monitored by a government which properly _shuts_down_ companies that seriously violate public health (rather than fining them a mere 3% of their quarterly profits, or, if you prefer, 0.0203% of their annual revenue). This is akin to setting the penalty for robbing a bank at something like $50 and pretending it’s a deterrent.

If you feel I’m being overly dramatic by using a criminal metaphor, read the above, again: They _pled_guilty_ to 20 _felony_ counts of violating public safety by contaminating lakes, rivers, and groundwater. Their penalty was $7 million. You can do the math.
———————–

Case,
For three reasons, I’m saddened that you have chosen to introduce the proposition of quantifying agreement or disagreement with my view.

First, thousands of you disagreeing with me will not shield your pets from toxic food, should my worst fears be realized.

Second, thousands of you disagreeing with me in a public forum monitored by Champion will simply reinforce the perception of the US being a trusting, safe environment for business, and encourage the worst from them, should my worst fears be realized.

Third, thousands of you disagreeing with me will serve no purpose other than to end the discussion. “Let’s vote on it,” has long been teamspeak for “I’m tired of this topic, let’s pretend we have an answer and move on.” Yet will your disagreement with my perspective keep my dogs safe? Will Amy’s reticence to think ill of Champion until the damage is done prevent that damage from occurring?
———————–

Everyone,
Here is the bottom-line:

The American Veterinary Medical Association has recorded over 914 pet food recalls from American companies in the last two years. NBC News has reported over 1000 dogs dead and over 4800 animals sick in the past six months from jerky treats alone. In 2002, the peer-reviewed American Journal of Veterinary Research found that the FDA was wrong in its earlier finding that pentobarbital residues in dog and cat food were from euthanized cattle, re-opening the serious allegation that the pentobarbital in American dog and cat food was, in fact, from… rendered (euthanized) dogs and cats. The semi-sacred Royal Canin brand is facing a class action suit over toxic levels of vitamin D in its products. American laws–the lack of them–allowed the FDA to find in 2005 that Diamond Pet Foods was releasing food containing up to 1,851 parts per billion of the deadly mycotoxin, aflatoxin. Acceptable levels are twenty (20) parts per billion. Over 100 dogs died because proper testing costs money and isn’t required.

Trusting these profit-makers to care for your animals is no longer reasonable. Trusting American regulations to protect your animals is no longer rational. Champion may be a good company today, or it may be that Canadian regulation keeps them honest. Without knowing which is true, I must see the move to American as a large step down a slippery slope. My intuition tells me this is the narrow end of the wedge.

We will buy Orijen until it is no longer made in Canada, and then I will stop buying it.

Fundamentally, I believe we should all actively question and challenge—and not merely trust until someone’s beloved pet lies dead. After all, that’s why this website exists in the first place.

Respectfully yours.

[LexiDog]

I emailed them the same question and they came back with (quoted from the FAQ page):
“Champion’s Morinville kitchens will focus on supplying our growing Canadian, European Union and Asian markets. The new Kentucky kitchens with supply the USA.”

So, basically, the Canadian produced food will NOT be available in the US.

In reply to your “specifically deny the American people information about where the ingredients in their food are sourced, because such information is “bad for bid’ness.” If passed, these laws would allow corporations to respond to inquiries with something like, “Our food products are made to meet or exceed government standards and we are not required to release information regarding ingredient sourcing to the public.”

If the company does not want to disclose where they source from, don’t buy from them.

I don’t see this move as such a “disaster” as you do. I would prefer their food to continue to be made in Canada but the US made food does not mean that it is going to be bad. It all depends on how they handle the production, quality control and sourcing once the new kitchen is open.

Saying that the US kitchen is going to be crap, is wrong. You have no facts to back it up yet. Until they are producing in that kitchen with a final product on the shelves, you can’t judge. There are plenty of US made foods that are great.

I do share most of the same quality concerns that you have but I am not about to say that the US food will be a disaster. Whether we like it or not they are going to be making Orijen in KY and that will be the food that is available to the US customers.

I personally will not be making a decision on whether to purchase the US made food or not until the product is actually available.

[Scott C]

For those of us who are stuck living in this corporate-owned United States of America and whose dogs love and have thrived on Orijen products, this is nothing short of a disaster.

Champion may choose to “wheel out” the fact that they are a small private company whenever it suits their purposes

(for example, to decline answering questions in an FAQ which they created, themselves… such an odd thing, to identify a question only to answer it by saying, “we’re a private company and won’t answer that question”)

but they are certainly behaving like a corrupt corporate giant.

The reality of Champion shifting its USA market products to production in financially destitute Kentucky, enjoying a tax credit in a state where they can pay “market competitive” wages to financially destitute employees, purchasing land from financially destitute owners, and sourcing ingredients at “competitive” prices from financially destitute farmers means that all of their high-sounding rationale boils down to “we can’t make enough food in Canada because we’ve grown too popular, and it will cost too much to employ Canadians, build Canadian factories, and purchase safe Canadian ingredients, so we’re cheating out on all of you loyal customers south of the border.”

Of the questions they do answer, the majority of answers in Champion’s FAQ about sourcing ingredients are vague “weasel-speak” and the entire concept fills me with dread.

American food ingredients may not–depending on whom you ask–(yet) contain actual toxins, like some Chinese (et al.) products do. However, the American diet is one of the worst on the planet among First- (or Second-, depending on whom you ask) World countries. That wretched level of nutrition is nevertheless largely in keeping with the quality and inspection standards and recommendations that multi-billion dollar agribusiness has purchased from the United States government. Would anyone who can afford to do otherwise ever buy Tyson chicken again, or trust Kellogg to provide a healthy balanced breakfast, or eat Wonder Bread? Clearly, not.

Does this mean that all American foodstuffs are corrupted? Clearly not (yet), but as the cliche’ goes, “fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.”

Indeed, there are strong, and likely successful, movements in our Congress to specifically deny the American people information about where the ingredients in their food are sourced, because such information is “bad for bid’ness.” If passed, these laws would allow corporations to respond to inquiries with something like, “Our food products are made to meet or exceed government standards and we are not required to release information regarding ingredient sourcing to the public.”

Why, then, would those who are blessed with the option of spending $100/month per dog on dog food (which is roughly what Orijen Regional Red costs) EVER consider it acceptable to trust our beloved pets to foods (like Purina, or Science Diet, or what have you) made with unreliable US (or, soon, “worldwide”) ingredients, meeting untrustworthy US guidelines for healthy nutrition, in factories held to unreliable US standards of sanitation?

I have sent a letter to Champion explicitly asking whether the reality of this change is that their Canadian products will only be available in Canada, Europe, and Asia, as their FAQ suggests. I will share whatever reply I receive.

Certainly, for us, if “Made in Canada” becomes “Made in USA” we will stop purchasing Champion’s products immediately.